School has been keeping me from shooting as much as i would like lately. My muscles weren't liking my 58# limbs without getting to shoot on a regular basis. So i decided to buy some lighter limbs. I bought some 49@ 28" limbs from a fellow ganger. At first i loved em. Seemed to really help my shooting. I even took a hog with them. Well our local 3d league started a few weeks ago, and i've really been sucking hind tit. Couldn't figure out what the deal was. Kept blaming it on my lack of opportunity to shoot here lately. I'm on spring break this week so i've been getting some shooting in. If anything, i seem to be getting worse. My release is worse than it has ever been and my anchor feels sloppy. Then i had a thought...."ya know what, i used to shoot pretty darn good with my heavier limbs". Plus just last week i read Dr Ashbys report on testing the 54# bow and how he struggled with a good release. So i bolted the 58# limbs back on and WOW!!! Arrow is on the mark every time. String just jumps from my fingers and everything feels so solid and steady at full draw.
Anybody experience this?
Kyle
Kyle, that was how it was for me for quite a while when I was forced to switch from 60-65#s downn to 52-53#s. It just took time to get a good crisp release with the lower #age. Lots of guys experience the same thing. I now shoot as good as I ever did! Shawn
Yeah, that's exactly how it is with me. I learned to shoot with a #65 lb. bow. Had never shot anything lighter than #60 before the first of this year. Got a bow that was #52 and man did I struggle to get a good release. I believe it really helped my form shooting the lighter bow, but I've gone back up in weight and now shoot better than ever.
You have to work on that back tension with the lighter bows.
Same thing here.
The added weight masks release/form/back tension errors. Learn to get a good clean release with the light bow and watch how much your shooting improves with the heavier one. That was the one of the reasons I kept my 45# Redwing hunter.
Just this last week I purchased a Bearcat TD takedown. I will use it to train and to keep my form in line. Shooting form that is.
It was a reasonable price, and I will make good use of it. I don't know how old that it is or what kind of value a it has, the serial number on it
is BT-07369, it has two weights listed 40# @ 60" and also 38# @ 66" they're right underneath each other. It was made in Florida. But it is a low poundage bow, that will be good for practicing on the form.
Carl
My shooting did nothing but get better with lower poundage. My draw length also got longer, because I can get all the way back and lock into my anchor now. I felt the heavier bows encouraged me to semi-snap-shoot, cause I just couldn't stay back with more weight. If heavier was more accurate, I think we'd see all the Olympic shooters with 60lb bows.
QuoteOriginally posted by Diamond Paul:
My shooting did nothing but get better with lower poundage. My draw length also got longer, because I can get all the way back and lock into my anchor now. I felt the heavier bows encouraged me to semi-snap-shoot, cause I just couldn't stay back with more weight. If heavier was more accurate, I think we'd see all the Olympic shooters with 60lb bows.
im gonna have to disagree with the olympic comment. How many olympic shooters have you seen shooting a stick bow instinctive? They are shooting like the compounders, except with no draw stop and no let off. If i am mistaken, please educate me.
Try shooting the number of arrows required of an Olympic archer at distances up to 90 meters with a 60# bow and see how accurate you can stay. The lighter weight is of necessity.
QuoteOriginally posted by kawika b:
The added weight masks release/form/back tension errors. Learn to get a good clean release with the light bow and watch how much your shooting improves with the heavier one. That was the one of the reasons I kept my 45# Redwing hunter.
I agree with this comment from Kaiwa, I shoot alot and often videotape my shooting, My arrow hit's its mark often when I dont completely hit anchor with my #59 longbow, when I switch, to my #45-51-or 55, my shooting suffers with the same BAD form. when I spend alot of time, with the lighter bows, and good form my accuracy picks up.
Interestingly....several of the top Olympic/FITA shooters are now shooting around 50# limbs, with a couple up to near mid 50's...not only to decrease flight time for those 90 M targets in the wind, but one of the key reasons is.....release is less critical, which may increase accuracy.
probably subjective but,,, What would be the point of diminishing returns as far as accuracy/consistency and draw weight is concerned Rod? Or are Oly/FITA guys using the upper end of the spectrum of capable/handleable draw weight?
Higher draw weight will improve your shooting by masking flaws in your form/release up to the point that you become overbowed for whatever shooting event that you are doing. For hunting, you make a comparatively higher increase in the draw weight since you are making fewer shots over a longer span of time. For field archery, you have the endurance factor to weigh in and can not increase the draw weight too much.
I saw G Fred Asbell speak at the TBOF State Championship last weak and his point as I interpreted it was that when the draw weight got too low you tended to stop the action of "pushing and pulling" unless you concentrated on good back tension. If it is too easy, you tend to let the "pulling" arm do all of the work and that creates bad habits.
I'm glad this question was asked. It's been on my mind a lot lately and I have some pretty strong feelings about it.
I've long maintained that it's as easy to be underbowed as it is overbowed... with similar negative results.
I agree with Fred Asbell per Gregg's post. If your muscles aren't working to shoot the bow it's far easier to do all kinds of weird things before the arrow clears the bow.
Recently because of "perceived" aging I'd gone down in draw weight considerably. The accuracy that I once had suffered and I wrote it off to that same aging thing. I'd just have to accept it... but I couldn't and wouldn't be satified with less than the best I could do and I knew it had to be a lot better than what was going on.
Not having had a new bow in almost ten years I decided it was time for me to have one and I finished it a few weeks ago.
I brought it to weight 5 pounds heavier than I'd been shooting and the result was an immediate improvement in my shooting.
Once again I can draw up on a target, anchor and hold and KNOW the arrow is going straight away to the target.
It's not just about getting a better release with the heavier weight... my release is just fine with lighter weight.
It's my opinion that many of todays archers are much too relaxed at full draw with their lighter bows.
And shooting a weight you can shoot all day is a matter of conditioning... really, if you shoot a 3D course how often do you shoot anyway.
If you were standing in one spot shooting a dozen arrows at a time I could see being fatigued at some point.
But shoot an arrow and waiting 5-10 or even 15 minutes between shots allows plenty of time for muscles to rest.
In my life I've shot bows in the upper 80# range and snagged more than a few tournament wins with that weight.
I had progressed down the ladder to 62# and now am back to shooting 67# at the age of 61 and I'm tickled pink with my shooting again.
There is no excuse for shooting any weight bow with bad form. If you can't reach full extention with the weight you are shooting then either improve your shooting strength or admit you are overbowed (no shame in that!)
Finding the "optimum" draw weight for your body type and physical limits is a worthy quest and can be difficult to find.
Ideally it's not one more pound than you can shoot accurately or one pound less.
I sure hope this doesn't turn into a heavier/lighter debate. It should be about what is best for YOUR shooting.
:thumbsup:
WELL said Charlie. :readit: :bigsmyl:
Well put Mr. Lamb. That is just what I've discovered in the last few weeks. I just turned 47 and I went back to my 65 to 68 pound bows and am shooting remarkably better.
It got to the point where I was spent by the end of a 3-D shoot with my heavier # bow.So I bought a lighter # bow, like mentioned above it was not an easy transition.It took me awhile to " reprogram" myself,but it's improved my shooting with both bows. Leland
Hey Kyle, tried to respond to your PM but your inbox said full up. -ART B
QuoteOriginally posted by KyleAllen:
QuoteOriginally posted by Diamond Paul:
My shooting did nothing but get better with lower poundage. My draw length also got longer, because I can get all the way back and lock into my anchor now. I felt the heavier bows encouraged me to semi-snap-shoot, cause I just couldn't stay back with more weight. If heavier was more accurate, I think we'd see all the Olympic shooters with 60lb bows.
im gonna have to disagree with the olympic comment. How many olympic shooters have you seen shooting a stick bow instinctive? They are shooting like the compounders, except with no draw stop and no let off. If i am mistaken, please educate me. [/b]
That's correct, but trust me, no stop and no let off make it a far cry from shooting a compound. That's why any top compound shooter can soundly beat the best Olympic shooter in the world on spots. Anyway, I think Olympic shooters will tell you that a good release is next to Godliness, or something along those lines. I usually shoot 100 or so arrows everyday, so 60lbs is way too much for me anymore. If you feel it improves your shooting, that's what I'd shoot if I were you. I wish I could shoot that much myself. 60lbs might be as easy for you as 45lbs is for me, though. Good shooting, whatever weight you choose. Paul.
I often use the empty bucket analogy. If you on a bucket brigade and someone hands you an empty bucket when you have getting nothing but full ones, the tendency is to throw it in the air. When I was shooting 64 to 96 pound bows I could not shoot a 50. I tended to jerk the string back almost as fast as the bow shot the arrow, and my fingers did not know how to let go of the string. I have since settled down and can shoot the light weights just fine. I sometimes miss that automatic pilot thing that heavy longbows give.
By the way, the "heavier bow" thing is pretty relative. I know a guy who used to hunt deer with a 120 pound compound, and he could pull over 200lbs. He used to pull 70lb bows just like you would pull one of those spring chest pull exercisers, with both arms straight out in front of him, like it was nothing. Only the shooter can define what a heavy bow is to him/her. Paul.
I have bows of various wieghts but shoot my 65# bows remarakbly better. I have basically shot 65# since the early 80's and have a problem with double clutching and having to mentally release the arrow on lighter wieght draw bows. My release is automatic with my 65# bows. I do shoot daily and that around 50 times or more at 65#. It is definetly what your body is accustomed to and able to handle. It is more phsyical than mental.
It may be the fact that 58#'s is what i cut my teeth on. I definitely think it is harder to be accurate with lighter bows. I just couldn't let go of the string. I like the way that the heavier bows rip it from your fingers. Perhaps the difference will show on this weeks score card...
Same deal here - I had a 62# Widow that I used to tack drive with. I figured if I hit that well at that poundage then I must be a freak of nature with lower pounds so I dropped all the way to 50# and was absolutely horrible with it. Weird.
Isn't it funny that every time one of the hunting with "lightweight bows" threads comes up, someone chimes in with "its better to shoot a lightweight bow accurately, than a heavier one poorly". I've never seen the connecdtion myself and the opposite seems to be closer to the truth.
I've shot both and can tell you there is not a lot of difference as long as your form is settled. I have shot field rounds with 34 pound bows and also 60 pound bows. I never had any release problems, and after 112 arrows....each one shot to score....I had a lot left over after the 34 pounder and my score was much better.
There is an optimum either way, but form errors will show up on lighter bows. It's not the bows fault. I shot the best barebow field score of my life with a 38# target bow.
My hunting recurves are 51 and 52 pounds, and I have no release problem with them...nor do I struggle.
Rick: If you can shoot a heavy bow well, no doubt it beats a light bow shot well. But an arrow in the gut from a 70lb bow ain't as good as an arrow in both lungs from a 45lb bow, I wouldn't think. I've seen lots of people who shot "heavy" bows (60lbs or more), and most of them could not hit a room from inside it. JMHO
I'm really glad this subject came up also. I've been practicing alot more recently and my bow just seems to light, and I feel like my release isn't what it used to be. It wasn't perfect to begin with but I was consistent. Like some others have said, the string just doesn't "jump" from my fingers like it used to. At first I just attributed it to a few bad days of shooting but it continued. Still could be me but I'm searching for a heavier longbow as we speak to see what's up with it. Mark
I have found that coating my shooting glove with powder encourages me to release smoother with the light weight bows.
And what about shooting a heavier bow after two or three hours in the stand during a very cold morning !!!
That the reason i took a lower poundage bow for hunting .
Hunting situations are not the same that shooting in the backyard .
58# is not heavy for Instinctive shooting but maybe a little much for Oly target shooting style.
Very very very few American traditional archers shoot"Oly target style".
Steve
Diamond Paul, yes and an arrow in the guts from a 45# bow is not as good as an arrow through both lungs from a 75# bow, so what? I have watched many MANY bowhunters shoot and if anything the guys hunting with heavier equipment shoot BETTER on average than those shooting the minimum. Howard Hill attributed his shooting skills to the fact that he shot heavy(very)bows. Since my bows are for hunting, I really don't care that I can't shoot several hundred arrows in a row, as target archers do, I wouldn't do that even if I could, its not realistic practice for hunting and in my experience, tends to create bad habits. If you want to make it easy to draw your bow after standing in the cold for hours, don't hunt with the same or heavier weight bow you practiced with all summer, shoot a lighter one, shoot 3-D with a 60# bow and then drop back to a 55# and it will feel like nothing, although I've never had that problem, even when hunting in the arctic with an 80#, I think that largely comes from hunters shooting lightweight bows most of the time and then switching up just before hunting season.
Well said Rick...and I agree.
I've owned a ton of bows and seem to shoot 58-68# at my draw the best. I seem to hold steadier.
I've settled on about 60-65# @ my 30ish draw simply because I can find a good weighted carbon easier around that poundage...as for gpp.
Mike
I got to shoot a couple of heavier bows yesterday...I usually shoot 45#, and increased by 5-7 #'s yesteday. Accuaracy wasnt an issue, as they were not my bows. One thing I noticed was that my form was A LOT better than usual. Just saying...
Rick: If you can shoot the heavy weights, that's great, nothing but a plus. I haven't personally seen many guys shooting heavy bows well; they tend to have too much tension in the drawing hand and arm, short draw, and snap shoot. Maybe we just don't have many good shooters down here. Everyone I know that dropped significant weight says he/she shoots better, has better form, can actually get all the way to anchor, and can shoot a lot more. I'll use the rifle analogy here: lots of guys shoot the big magnums, but they kick the snot out of them, so they develop a flinch, and don't shoot the rifle much because of the punishment they endure. Guys who shoot .243's, 25/06's, and .308's are usually much better shots simply because they aren't flinching and they can shoot the rifle more without being punished. I like to shoot A LOT; I used to shoot a minimum of 2 hours a day when I shot compounds in competition. I usually shoot 100 or so arrows daily from my recurve. I don't think many people can do that with heavy bows. Most people think I'm a pretty good shot, and I would guess it's because I can practice a lot without tearing my body down. I know I shoot much better now than I did when I shot 63lbs, whether for one shot or many. If you like heavy and CAN SHOOT IT WELL, I think it's great, but I think you would be in the minority on the latter statement. Good luck, Paul.
Paul; this weight thing may all be related to shooting styles. You switched over from compounds and may still have that draw,settle in,aim and shoot style. I could see that lighter weight would certainly help there. But in an instinctive, touch your anchor and its gone style, a little more poundage might be helpful. Most of the people I`ve seen shooting lighter weights tend to stop at thier anchor a bit before they shoot and when I shoot a lighter bow thats what I have a tendancy to do as well. And I shoot bad and cant let go of the arrow well.
I`ve shot stick bows for 45 yrs. and middle to upper sixtys is what works for me. You have to shoot what works for you. Like Charlie said,we are all built differant and we all have a weight range that fits us,but it dont make us wrong. Bob
First of all, we know what works from decades of history. Second, you have to stay within your means; if that's 80 pound then so be it...if it's 45 then that is fine also. This crap gets old, especially when we know both will work fine.
Take a trip to Denton Hill this summer....I will join you there and we will watch shooters on the practice line. You will learn a few things about bow weights and how people shoot them. Don't shoot light weights because someone else does, and don't shoot heavy weights because someone else does. Find a comfort area where you can utilize good form and shoot well, no matter what is written on the side of the bow.
Charlie: I'm just about the same age as you(a year older), and I've just gone through the same process you did. As you well know, there is a fine line between too much bow and not enough. I've always shot as heavy as I could shoot accurately and relatively comfortably. It's a little less now (about 60#)than it was, but not as much less as I was trying to talk myself into. That make any sense?
Rick: I agree as well that shooting a heavier bow for practice is a good idea. That's what I do all summer. I stay with the heavier bows for my western hunts in September (warmer weather and bigger critters), but usually drop down about 5# when I'm sitting in a tree stand all day in northern Wisconsin during the rut in mid-November with the temperature hovering at 0 degrees. When I do get a shot, it feels just about like my heavier bows in warmer weather.
I pretty much echo Charlie on this one..
There is also the issue of your body falling apart with ware and tare after years of shooting hundreds of arrows a day. The muscle may still be there, but the joints and tendons argue with you. a light bow can be shot Hill style as well a heavy bow. Hill did not always use heavy stuff. he had bows as low as 52 pounds to use. If you need an 80lb. bow to get a good release you may find that a lighter bow will fight with you for a while, but in my case you do learn to release better with practice