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Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: John Malone on February 16, 2018, 07:57:00 PM

Title: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: John Malone on February 16, 2018, 07:57:00 PM: Gonna try again fellows. bamboo backed ipe. 64 inches t2t, 10 inch riser 1 inch wide out 6 inches taper to .5 tips. Mixed some white oak in with the ipe, BMorv showed me one of his first bows that had some contrast in the riser and handle that was similar and I liked it.
(https://i.imgur.com/GxNS9NCl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/qBYenLol.jpg)
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: Pat B on February 16, 2018, 08:17:00 PM: :scared:
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: John Malone on February 16, 2018, 08:31:00 PM: Quote
Originally posted by Pat B:
:scared:
Thanks for the encouragement sensei
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: John Malone on February 16, 2018, 08:37:00 PM: That's the way you done youre lemon wood bow isn't it Pat?
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: Roy from Pa on February 16, 2018, 09:44:00 PM: Wish you the best John.
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: John Malone on February 16, 2018, 09:47:00 PM: Roy, Pats scared and praying and it sounds like you're giving condolences. Is there something I should I know here.
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: Roy from Pa on February 16, 2018, 10:21:00 PM: Well it looks awful thick and doesn't seem to have hardly any taper thickness wise. Did you pad the back and belly to protect the clamps from indenting the wood?
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: John Malone on February 16, 2018, 10:42:00 PM: Yes I put felt furniture pad thingys on the clamps. Its a half inch thick at the fade 3/8 at the tip. I also taperd the width to rough dimensions. It bent pretty good on the floor. I would have tiller it further but with no backing I didn't want to or know how to do that withut snapping that ipe. So I figured I would glue it up as it is then tomorrow when it comes out, clean the sides reduce the profile on down to shape, then finish the belly taper then start tillering.
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: John Malone on February 16, 2018, 11:01:00 PM: While your here how do you round off the corners of the bamboo? Same as anything else?
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: Pat B on February 16, 2018, 11:03:00 PM: I have all the confidence in the world for your success, John....but I guess we'll see. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: John Malone on February 16, 2018, 11:11:00 PM: Pat, we shall see. I based it on what I observed during the last one, as far as only tapering to 3/8. And I know for a fact I will succeed, just don't know if it will be with this one or not. lol
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: Roy from Pa on February 17, 2018, 05:08:00 AM: Actually you want to trap the back with a facet then sand the crisp edges of it.

Go slow, you will get er done.
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: John Malone on February 17, 2018, 08:57:00 AM: Another question I should have ask before hand.
When you guys use dowels or whatever as alignment pins how does that work at the tips when you pull the reflex in? When I glue stuff like that I leave all the pieces a lil long, that way when you pull it down the pieces closer to the inside of the bend get longer.
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: Pat B on February 17, 2018, 10:00:00 AM: John, the lemonwood bow was the first time I used alignment dowels at the tips and I never thought about the movements of each piece but apparently it didn't affect the glue up. I think next time I will only use the pins at the handle and not worry about the tips. They are easy enough to align.
I used alignment pins at the handle on the last 3 backed bows I made and it really helped at glue up time.
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: John Malone on February 17, 2018, 10:12:00 AM: Pat, I left the ipe a little bit wider so I had wiggle room. I used care with the first clamp to keep it centered after it was pulled into reflex. Then I checked the tip alignment and popped a staple in there, and proceeded to add the rest of the clamps making sure I didn't push it out.
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: Roy from Pa on February 17, 2018, 10:38:00 AM: I drill 2 holes in the riser where the leather grip will cover them, then I drill a hole just along each edge of the boo out at the tips. Not through the boo rather right up against the boo.

If you are not putting a leather grip on the bow, you could drill holes along side the center of the handle area. I then put toothpicks in all those holes after glue up but before clamping.

Note the holes at the end of lams, the boo will lay down inside them when toothpicks are inserted.

(http://i.imgur.com/ARMpoBw.jpg) (https://imgur.com/ARMpoBw)

(http://i.imgur.com/IfJ0d68.jpg) (https://imgur.com/IfJ0d68)

Riser holes.

(http://i.imgur.com/oXiYa4s.jpg) (https://imgur.com/oXiYa4s)
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: John Malone on February 17, 2018, 11:26:00 AM: I gotcha, that makes better sense than what I was thinking yall done. What do you fill those hole in the handle area with,tooth picks and glue, or do you glue it in to start and cut it flush?
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: Pat B on February 17, 2018, 02:21:00 PM: I slide the pins(dowels or bamboo skewers) in the holes and let the glue up glue glue them then cut them flush. The handle wrap covers them.
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: John Malone on February 17, 2018, 05:11:00 PM: Well fellows these may be the last pics that don't look like crime scene photos. I haven't done any tillering as it just came out of the 24 hour clamp down. I cleaned the edges and got the handle closer to finish dimensions. It has one inch of reflex measuring the way BMorv showed me, belly up. I put a facet on the bamboo don't know if its enough.
I did give it a push on the floor, it will bend. Not much, but enough I'm glad I didn't taper or remove any more belly wood than I did, I think its perfect to start the tillering process.
Other than rounding the belly over, is there any thing else I should do or do better?
(https://i.imgur.com/Lt2x02Jl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/TfEnXMul.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/RuwmI0vl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/MGDlVLel.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/NfrRomvl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/DsBqCTQl.jpg)
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: Pat B on February 17, 2018, 05:39:00 PM: She looks good so far. Looking forward to seeing her bend.
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: wood carver 2 on February 17, 2018, 06:16:00 PM: Looking good!
Dave.
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: John Malone on February 17, 2018, 06:16:00 PM: Wonder what kinda weight I can get out of this? Always wanted a real heavy bow, #70ish.
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: Roy from Pa on February 17, 2018, 07:25:00 PM: Look out, it's gonna blow.....
:laughing:
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: John Malone on February 17, 2018, 07:52:00 PM: Roy, just hold my beer and go make us sum samiches.
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: Bvas on February 17, 2018, 08:00:00 PM: Quote
Originally posted by John Malone:
Roy, just hold my beer and go make us sum samiches.
LMAO. “Hold my beer”
That’s a pretty good indicator that you’re gonna wanna watch what happens next. :laughing:
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: John Malone on February 17, 2018, 08:42:00 PM: Roy is tough, he can handle a lil trash talking.
Seriously though, with only about three inches of tip movement im thinking shes gonna end up some were around 50 pounds by the time i get her tillered proper.
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: John Malone on February 17, 2018, 08:43:00 PM: Quote
Originally posted by Bvas:

Quote
Originally posted by John Malone:
Roy, just hold my beer and go make us sum samiches.
LMAO. “Hold my beer”
That’s a pretty good indicator that you’re gonna wanna watch what happens next. :laughing: [/b]
Watch from a safe distance you should say.
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: kennym on February 17, 2018, 08:58:00 PM: Lookin good!!
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: Roy from Pa on February 17, 2018, 09:59:00 PM: I guess it's OK.. :)
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: John Malone on February 17, 2018, 10:18:00 PM: I put a tight long string on there, think I can go for whatever weight I want. Gonna keep her around #55 if I can. I could still shoot 70 I think, but the consequences might not be worth it.
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: mikkekeswick on February 18, 2018, 02:31:00 AM: Inner tubes are better for the clamping force, you aren't using enough clamps, really if you carry on using clamps you should use a pressure strip or have them max 2 inches apart. The tubes gives very even clamping pressure.
The holes at the tips are a good idea when using boo but the rest of the lams should be full width then all you need to do is tape them all to the form to stop any movement as you clamp.
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: Roy from Pa on February 18, 2018, 06:19:00 PM: Well any progress?
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: John Malone on February 18, 2018, 06:36:00 PM: Just came in Roy. Planted snow peas today, They're Grandmas favorite. Tillered for a bit, its still stiff. It doesn't bend right out of the fade so that's good ill leave it alone until I get the rest bending more. I might get enough bend tonight for a pic.
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: John Malone on February 18, 2018, 08:00:00 PM: Only about 4 inches of bend.
(https://i.imgur.com/gpcLlOml.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/a67NZ6Tl.jpg)
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: John Malone on February 18, 2018, 08:10:00 PM: I don't like the way this pulley system feels. It feels like you're pulling 100 pounds at only a couple inches. How do you guys rig yours.
(https://i.imgur.com/hhS7PzBl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/6c9xwMcl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/exsecpol.jpg)
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: John Malone on February 18, 2018, 09:19:00 PM: Oh yea, I gained 3/16 of reflex.
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: Roy from Pa on February 18, 2018, 09:53:00 PM: Ya gotta add another pulley, it reduces the weight in half. I would use a much shorter string on that bow too. Put in string grooves and get a real bow string on there that just slides into the string grooves.

(http://i.imgur.com/NwulFTi.jpg) (https://imgur.com/NwulFTi)
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: John Malone on February 18, 2018, 09:58:00 PM: I'm gonna cut those tomorrow before I do anything else. I need a scale like that is the one from three rivers any good?
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: John Malone on February 18, 2018, 10:17:00 PM: I need a scale before I add pulleys so I can tell what weight I'm pulling. Think I got an 8 part block some were, I could pull it to 150 pounds with one finger then. LOL
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: Roy from Pa on February 19, 2018, 04:59:00 AM: Yes 3 rivers sell them. I like it. Other places sell them too.
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: BMorv on February 19, 2018, 12:28:00 PM: I took the weekend off and you are tillering a new bow already.....
Shooting it yet?
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: ty_in_ND on February 19, 2018, 03:42:00 PM: I don't know if you've set up your 2nd pulley yet, John, but I would also use something that is not as wide as the strap you're using to pull on the bow string in your pic (something like a carabiner clip works well... pretty much copy what Roy has in his picture!).
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: John Malone on February 19, 2018, 06:12:00 PM: ND. good point, I used that because its as wide as my three fingers.
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: Wolftrail on February 19, 2018, 06:38:00 PM: Quote
Originally posted by mikkekeswick:
The tubes gives very even clamping pressure.

I had rubber give a bad clamp numerous times especially on tapered lam repairs. On an even width in works out ok but I noticed that the center sometimes ends up with an air gap.
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: mikkekeswick on February 20, 2018, 02:58:00 AM: Wolf - that is because you used a thin back lam with no pressure strip. The 'rubber' didn't give you a bad glueline....the way you did it did!
I've glued up well over 200 lam bows and never had a bad glueline. I do know what i'm talking about or else I wouldn't waste everybodies time giving duff advise.
The first time it didn't work you should have stopped and worked out why rather than doing it again and again....
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: ty_in_ND on February 20, 2018, 02:30:00 PM: So... in the hopes of not derailing John's post, but since it was brought up...

Mike, what do you use as a pressure strip when gluing a backing to a belly lam? And do you put a strip on the outside of both back and belly? Or do you glue your bows on a form?
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: mikkekeswick on February 21, 2018, 02:51:00 AM: It depends which way you make your form, either so the belly lam is up or the backing lam is up. Either way your form comes first, then the stack of your lams then pressure strip then clamping method of your choice.
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: Roy from Pa on February 21, 2018, 08:09:00 AM: Well Johnny, how's it working out?
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: Pat B on February 21, 2018, 11:10:00 AM: I think John has retired from bow making and is getting into chicken farming. :knothead:
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: Roy from Pa on February 21, 2018, 11:14:00 AM: I always thought he was a little flighty... Or maybe he's collecting feathers for primitive arrows..

LOL
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: Pat B on February 21, 2018, 08:27:00 PM: Yeah, he with his chickens. :dunno:
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: Roy from Pa on February 22, 2018, 07:18:00 AM: So Johnny boy dances with chickens?

From here on out, he will be "Dances with Chickens"!

LOL :laughing:
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: Roy from Pa on February 22, 2018, 03:32:00 PM: Pat, it's been three days now..

Ya don't think ole Johnny fell in love in dah hen house do ya? :)
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: Pat B on February 22, 2018, 09:07:00 PM: Maybe could. Something's up.
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: Pat B on February 23, 2018, 09:07:00 PM: Hope his chickens didn't get him. He went to poop and the chickens ate him. :knothead:
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: Roy from Pa on February 23, 2018, 09:23:00 PM: Why did the chicken cross the road?
Ole Johnny boy was ah chasen em.

I hope all is ok with him though. I was looking forward to the next bow tusima. LOL
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: Pat B on February 24, 2018, 10:57:00 AM: Yeah, I hope he OK too. I haven't heard from John is almost a week.
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: BMorv on February 26, 2018, 02:46:00 PM: Anyone heard from John? Starting to worry about ol boy.
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: Roy from Pa on February 26, 2018, 05:33:00 PM: Haven't heard anything. Pat and I were talking about him in PM's. We are both concerned about him.
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: John Malone on March 02, 2018, 07:05:00 PM: Thanks guys, I would of at least checked in but 16 hrs a day to catch and clean 36 houses. The only thing I checked in with was my pillow, getting to old for that crap. Should be pretty normal for awhile anyhow. Obviously the bow is still the same hope to do some tomorrow.
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: Pat B on March 02, 2018, 07:25:00 PM: He's alive, He's alive!!! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: John Malone on March 02, 2018, 07:34:00 PM: If I would have died youd know, beautiful women all over the world would be crying and wearing black. LOL
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: Roy from Pa on March 02, 2018, 08:45:00 PM: You're just a chick magnet.. :)
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: John Malone on March 02, 2018, 09:08:00 PM: Good one Roy, I knew I liked you for some reason.
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: John Malone on March 06, 2018, 08:33:00 PM: Ok guys, nothing pic worthy today but I have a question/problem. I could kick my self for gluing in reflex on a bow with two materials ive never used before, to late now. I cut in nocks got a proper string on there, I didn't brace it other than the string is banjo tight. The reflex is up to 1 3/8. I can pull it 12-14 inches or so scale says #35 poundsthen it gets heavy fast. Scale is right I checked with different combos of steel weights ranging from #10-#80.
For those of you who have made reflex and straight limb bows is there a difference in feel at this stage or is it the ipe boo combo? Or I'm I gun shy from breaking the last one?
Also should I pull on down to #50. 50 is what I'm going to shot for on this one.
I'm confused here, this is like my first bow all over again.

Thanks guys.
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: John Malone on March 06, 2018, 09:35:00 PM: Well, the inner limbs need to move more, some toward the outer. If I want to hit #50 id better get darn good cause its #40 @16 now with the string super tight on the handle. Which I guess I need to brace it up to at least 4 inches? I lost my mojo.
(https://i.imgur.com/Q9KVSacl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/MRHIkXxl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/JJ5oozvl.jpg)
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: John Malone on March 07, 2018, 10:38:00 AM: Unbraced profile pic.
(https://i.imgur.com/lhj7jmUl.jpg)
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: BMorv on March 07, 2018, 11:28:00 AM: Not bad. I agree, I wouldn't touch your mid limbs until you get your inners working more.
And I know there's advocates for pulling full draw weight from the get go on the tree, but most of those guys are really experienced, and they are really good at floor tillering or making sure it bends evenly before it goes on the tree.
I don't like the idea of pulling 50#'s when your taper and/or floor tiller isn't close to perfect.
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: Pat B on March 07, 2018, 11:33:00 AM: Benton, pulling to the ultimate draw weight will help you achieve that draw weight but unless the limbs bend evenly and together pulling beyond where you are in the tiller process should not be done. You can still pull to your draw weight without hurting anything.
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: John Malone on March 07, 2018, 12:22:00 PM: BMorv, that's exactly what I was thinking.
Pat, that's exactly what I was thinking.
Seriously guys I new they weren't perfectly even so I didn't want to stress it. This whole reflex thing is strange to me so I'm flying blind here. What ive read makes sense but until I've put my hands on it its just info.
I think I'm experiencing stack? Who knows, I'm gonna run with it so back up.
If I can get #45 ill be happy.
So far its very springy so hopefully shell be a smoker.
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: BMorv on March 07, 2018, 01:03:00 PM: Pat, I agree with your comments for the most part.

Let's say you didn't floor tiller your bow (or you didn't know how) and your limbs were hinged, and you chunked up the bow on the tree and pulled it to your target draw at 50# and it was at 20". I don't see how you aren't doing damage to your bow in this scenario. All I'm saying is that I wouldn't automatically start pulling target weight until the limbs are bending evenly. A lot of beginners, including me when I 1st started, can't see a good bend when floor tillering. If you know your limbs are bending even, I fully agree with your comments.

Yeah John, that combo will make a quick bow.
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: Roy from Pa on March 07, 2018, 01:18:00 PM: It's not bad, John. Keep tillering..
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: Pat B on March 07, 2018, 01:22:00 PM: Benton, when you put your bow on the tree you don't instantly pull it to the draw weight. You exercise it slowly and slowly work it out until you see that everything is OK or there is a problem. When you see a hinge you mark the limb there(I use an "X") so you know not to remove more wood from there. When you see a flat spot you mark that(differently, I use a squiggly line) so you know to remove wood from there. Once you have made the correction(s), you go back to the tree, exercise the limbs and check for other possible problems then you can move on towards your draw weight.
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: John Malone on March 07, 2018, 01:30:00 PM: I think you guys are saying the same thing, but one is speaking hillybilly and one is speaking Cajun. LOL
Because my inner limbs were so stiff I figured if I pulled it to target it would put all the stress on a very small area in the mid limbs.
Had it been a straight limbed bow I would have had it bending much more even from the start. The reflex threw me off so I'm playing catch up with the inners. Next time I will have a better feel for it.
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: John Malone on March 07, 2018, 02:30:00 PM: #47 @23 inches.
(https://i.imgur.com/D0ZXJ0fl.jpg)
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: BMorv on March 07, 2018, 03:01:00 PM: Yeah Pat, I think we are on the same page.

Hard to see for sure with the background, but that bend is looking good John...
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: John Malone on March 07, 2018, 03:52:00 PM: Gizmo says its even now, guess I should put a few arrows half draw through it.
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: John Malone on March 07, 2018, 05:31:00 PM: Well just shy of full draw. What do ya think? She is zippy!
(https://i.imgur.com/EmEr7ZKl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ZZfi6eFl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/wuPH5NZl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/mefh1PHl.jpg)
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: BMorv on March 07, 2018, 05:57:00 PM: I like it Johnny...and I think you will too. :thumbsup:

Still got some reflex? No problems if you don't, just wondering.
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: John Malone on March 07, 2018, 06:22:00 PM: BMorv, it still has 1/4 reflex after 50 arrows. If she don't make it I'm going straight out and buying more boo and ipe. Of course the perry reflex helped I'm sure, but she is real zippy, Right now its #50.6 @26 so it shouldn't drop more than a pound or two I guess.
Gonna call her Thin Lizzy cause she's an inch 1/8 wide and she rocks.
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: John Malone on March 07, 2018, 09:29:00 PM: More like 3/8ths, its kept almost half so even if it ends up flat I'm happy, no set. I think that was Pats intent on that lemon wood project.
(https://i.imgur.com/wBuAGAjl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/s5HAqNQl.jpg)
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: mwosborn on March 07, 2018, 10:21:00 PM: Looks nice John - well done!
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: John Malone on March 07, 2018, 10:26:00 PM: Thanks, I figure a couple more and I can start selling them for $1500.
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: BMorv on March 08, 2018, 09:09:00 AM: That's what your are after man. A little bit of reflex or even flat makes for a snappy but smooth shooter. Good job man.
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: BMorv on March 08, 2018, 09:18:00 AM: How does it compare to your Lowes bought bows?
I bet you'll have to go to a stiffer arrow when you tune it.
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: Roy from Pa on March 08, 2018, 09:33:00 AM: Nice, Johnny...
Title: Re: Lets try it with bamboo.
Post by: John Malone on March 08, 2018, 10:16:00 AM: Bmorv there is no comparison to my lowes bows. The only one that shoots this Fast and crisp is the Cherokee stave bow I made. Its 8 pounds heavier and has some set but if I concentrate on the grip its a damn good shooter. It gets great arrow flight with full length 400 spine and 150 grain zwickeys up front.
With the bbi ive got some full length 500s I'm gonna try and tune to it for small game.
Which reminds me ive got to start working on some wood shafts. I have a bunch of crape myrtles I'm fixing to trim and ive read those shoots can make great arrows.