Trad Gang
Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: bigbob2 on December 19, 2017, 06:12:00 AM
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I would like to know if any bowyers in USA have been experiencing problems with Smooth on Apart from myself ,two very reputable bowyers in this neck of the woods suddenly are having major problems . Between the three of us there have been at least 10 bows that have delaminated in some way or another. These guys know their stuff and I am 100% certain that the fault doesn't lie with them.Until recently I had never had a bow fail . I was blaming myself for screwing things up somehow until contacted by the others with similar tales of woe.Maybe we have all been sent a bad batch although this has occured over a period of some months.
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Bob does the glue have a strong ammonia odor? If so it's probably bad.
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No problem here. This is the first I've heard it.
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Are you all getting your glue from the same vendor? If so you may want to alert him.
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This is interesting..... :eek:
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During air freight from USA to Australia could the glue have been frozen in the cargo hold? I do not know If that would matter though.
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Since I switched from the 1-1 mix to the 2-1 mix I have had no problems 40 Plus bows.
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Yep, I had 7 built between June and August this year fail. Never had a problem before. I blamed it on the epoxy too, lucky for me only 3 were in customers hands, the others were prototypes that never left my shop but delaminated while strung up overnight.
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This is all very disconcerting! :confused:
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Man! This is the first I've heard of this! Bad deal!
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I can only speak for mine, and it has no real smell Roy, at least none out of the ordinary.Up until this, the only bow from probably 150 - 200 to fail was my first when I had trouble with the lams on the ramps on a HH style longbow.Some have parted at the center accent strips[ I blamed moisture content] couple others have delaminated .I mix my epoxy by weight using same formula I have always used. for a flat laid longbow with 4 lams, it is 72g to 58g. Never a problem until just recently.Our tins come for two different suppliers, mine and one other we get through a local trad supplier who imports it from one of the big trad suppliers in US and the other guy deals with the other big dealer there My friend's latest recurve he just got it rough shaped after the hotbox, cut working nocks and it delaminated mid draw first time up.Its all very frustrating and costly.
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Hey Bob, sorry to hear it mate - My fledgling glass bow making career has not yet experienced a glue-fail. I'm a little worried about how I'll deal with it if and when it ever happens!
I'm sure you have considered and ruled this out, but I've noted that almost in every post you have made here and elsewhere lately, there is a mention of the humidity you are battling up on the beautiful sunshine coast, and how it's hampering and delaying your finishing processes.........is there any chance your glue has maybe been slightly unsealed between uses and taken in some moisture??
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Mate it's not just me, several other guys who live hundreds of Ks apart are having trouble, do humidity wouldn't come into it for all.
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I'm just getting my feet wet with building and have never actually use this stuff.....but I'm guessing there has to be some number or code designating the batch. Can anyone find such a thing? Anyone contact the manufacturer? Sounds like a faulty batch/lot of product.....if so, Id like to avoid getting any of it! Sorry to see you guys are dealing with this......really sucks for many reasons, first of all safety and secondly, the waste of costly building materials and time!
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If it's faulty, the manufacturer probably already knows so getting in touch with them might get an explanation.
Maybe if you Ozzie's could get your batch or lot numbers together here then someone here in country could work on them. I'd be happy to help.
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Breathing Epoxy dust, fiberglass and other highly synthetic glue residues cant be to healthy. .....
:scared:
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Yep. Gwass bows are for men. :laughing: :)
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i have some batch numbers but others I threw out, but we are chasing it up
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OK. Let me know.
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Hey, I called Smooth-on and asked about freezing hurting it.
The young man said bring it back up to 73* slowly and stir both components thouroghly .
I said- but does it hurt it to freeze, and he said- we have never heard about it if it does.
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We wouldn't have to worry about freezing here Kenny!!! More likely to melt if anything. Temp would be about 95 here at moment.Only batch number I have at moment is from one of the other guys and it was Part A-- 1703124; Part B -- 1704510. due to having several tins on the go at once I am not sure about mine but think one lot was 1701124 part A; and 1610506 part B. this is conjecture on my part re numbers but friends is one notable recent fail.
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It has to be a manufacturing screw up.
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Jason, hope all is well with you.
Have your heard of others having delam issues?
When they fail is it wood/wood joints along with wood/glass?
This would be beyond annoying..
Just checked the batch numbers on my glue. :confused:
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Originally posted by Wolftrail:
Breathing Epoxy dust, fiberglass and other highly synthetic glue residues cant be to healthy. .....
:scared:
Especially when the Epoxy is not cured all the way... It can do much harm to the body...
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most of the curves belonging to the others have failed near the fades, which would be understandable, due to stress point at change of section and angles.Mind you these are all well credentialed designs , many of which have been made previously without mishap.One of mine opened up through the center along accent strips.another, a curve had a similar fate to the others.
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Has anyone contacted the company that makes smooth on and ask about manufacturing defects?
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My Aussie supplier is taking it up with them.Hopefully get some answers.
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Hi John, all good here. Merry Christmas to you and yours! Mine failures were all like dry glue joints but they werent actally dry. It just didnt bond well for long. On one I had it all tillered and about ready to spray when I pushed down on the handle while on my bench and the handle accents seperated like I didnt glue them at all. I didnt save the cans so I cant help with batch numbers but I have no doubt it was a bad batch. I didnt happen for hundreds of bows before those few and it hasnt happened since fortunatley.
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I don’t think the freezing hurts. I had two different sets of smooth on cans in my garage and both were exposed to freezing temps for a short period. One set had just can scrapings, the other nearly full.
I had a stack of overlay material and a couple boards that I was gonna glue together. Thought it was a perfect time to use up the can scrapings. Now the A(white) side seamed just fine, but the B(yellow) side seemed a little thick, almost gritty. I went ahead with the glueup, but after 3 days at room temp they still hadn’t completely set.
So I trashed the overlays and cut the boards back apart. I then went to the nearly full cans. Both parts seemed fine, mixed well and set completely in under 24 hrs.
Now I haven’t done a complete glueup, but I did flex test both sets of overlays. The ones glued with the “gritty” mix blew apart with failed glue joints. The other set flexed further than I thought with no issues.
So even though it is a two part epoxy, I guess the B side has a shelf life especially with lots of air exposure. Mine were nearly a year old. I will admit, the lids were probably not completely sealed on the partial set and allowed air in.