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Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: Roy from Pa on September 30, 2017, 12:08:00 PM

Title: It's trilam season again
Post by: Roy from Pa on September 30, 2017, 12:08:00 PM
I don't build hardly any bows in the summer. Too many other things to do. But this is the first glue up of the fall season. I met a guy at the Pine Hill trad shoot this past summer and he seen the bow I donated to the Pine Hill club to be auctioned off. So he asked me about me teaching him how to build his own bow. I seen him a couple other times before this but we never really got to talk much. So I said sure I will help you make a bow! "And because of him, that is how I got that load of Osage logs in my other thread.." So he has been to my shop twice now and the last trip we got it glued up. He lives an hour's drive away so he only comes down once a week. So ya all will have to keep checking back to see how his progress goes.

This is him cutting the Osage, name is Tim.

 (https://i.imgur.com/U5omqFol.jpg)

 (https://i.imgur.com/VZjzixel.jpg)

 (https://i.imgur.com/LrXxIQ1l.jpg)

 (https://i.imgur.com/ORzPuiDl.jpg)

And the riser and tip overlays below.

 (https://i.imgur.com/LzdV1Nbl.jpg)

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bRYE1hPYy0&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: Mad Max on September 30, 2017, 12:32:00 PM
:coffee:     :coffee:
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: Bowjunkie on September 30, 2017, 03:17:00 PM
Nice. Will keep an eye on your progress.
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: Bowjunkie on September 30, 2017, 03:22:00 PM
I'd post pics of what I worked on today, but it's not worth the hassle.
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: Roy from Pa on September 30, 2017, 03:28:00 PM
Thanks, Jeff. Actually Imgur.com is sooo much easier and faster than photobucket.
Here is the bow Bowjunkie worked on today. He has been my mentor in bow building for 15 years.. Cause I'm a slow learner... LOL

    (https://i.imgur.com/fExkrJ2l.jpg)
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: Bvas on September 30, 2017, 03:33:00 PM
Looking good Roy

Good luck with that bowjunkie
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: Wolftrail on September 30, 2017, 03:37:00 PM
Tri-Lam looks good, what are the specs on the bow like taper what, taper what have you or whatever. Laminated Wood bows are sure a pain to taper for proper tiller.  For me anyway.
   :deadhorse:
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: Roy from Pa on September 30, 2017, 03:54:00 PM
Bow is Osage belly, red elm core lam, boo backed. 62" tip to tip. 1 1/4" wide at flares, tapered to 1/2" wide at tips. I leave the Osage belly 1/4" thick with no taper. The core lam is 3/16th thick at the riser, tapered to 1/6th thick at the tips. Boo is 1/8th thick at riser, tapered to 1/16th at tips. Shooting for 50# @ 26" draw. Won't have any problem reaching that weight.
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: Wolftrail on September 30, 2017, 06:43:00 PM
Thanks for the specs, 50# @ 26".  That would rip my shoulder out. 40-43# is max for me. Dang I hate getting old, if its not my back its my hands, knee etc...etc..
   :(  

Dont know how Howard Hill pulled an 80# bow, even in my prime it would of been a chore.
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: Bowjunkie on October 01, 2017, 03:29:00 AM
Wayne, I tried to reply to you but your mailbox is full. Won't go through. You need to delete some messages bro.
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: Bob at Work on October 01, 2017, 10:32:00 PM
What glue do you use?
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: Crooked Stic on October 02, 2017, 05:30:00 AM
Looking good Roy. That one is gonna rattle you teeth.I remember years ago the Ferret group had one close to that and it would knock your fillings loose. How you liking that Dust Deputy. I have one on a 16 gal. Rigid vac. works good.
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: Roy from Pa on October 02, 2017, 07:38:00 AM
Bob, I use unibond800.

Stic, the snake bow is bowjunkies bow.
I love the dust deputy, it does a super job. Made a huge difference in cutting down on the dust.
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: Bob at Work on October 02, 2017, 07:57:00 PM
thanks!
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: Roy from Pa on October 03, 2017, 02:01:00 PM
Tim was in the shop today. Below is his bow right out of the form. Tim is in the background shaping the riser to fit.

 (http://i.imgur.com/DpyXjUZl.jpg)

Shaping the tip for the overlay.

 (http://i.imgur.com/bBO6xs8.jpg)

Tip wrapped with rubber bands.

 (http://i.imgur.com/fLZtT9u.jpg)

Riser glued and clamped.

 (http://i.imgur.com/Qe3bgOD.jpg)

My bow laid out and ready for glue up.

 (http://i.imgur.com/IfJ0d68.jpg)

And Annie looking for the deer antler box under the bench. She loves chewing antlers.

 (http://i.imgur.com/4CsRMjL.jpg)
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: BMorv on October 03, 2017, 02:13:00 PM
Hey Roy, how do you taper your bamboo?  
I just try to get mine 1/8" or thinner.  It seems the nodes would get in the way of any efforts to taper properly like you could with lumber.
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: Roy from Pa on October 03, 2017, 02:29:00 PM
First I run it through my drum sander to get it close.
Once the boo is cut to the exact shape of the bow. I taper it on my 4' edge sander, one limb at a time. It's a little hairy and ya gotta watch your fingertips. Then I finish it off with a toothing plane on my work bench.
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: Mad Max on October 03, 2017, 06:10:00 PM
Yea, and slicing your hand open.
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: Roy from Pa on October 11, 2017, 03:38:00 PM
Tim was here yesterday. Cut the bow out, then used a rasp to clean up the sides, rasp in the facets front and back, sanded the bow, then shaped the tip overlays and cut in the string grooves. It's been floor tillered and ready for the tillering tree.

 (http://i.imgur.com/Oy89E9h.jpg)

 (http://i.imgur.com/utS73zx.jpg)

 (http://i.imgur.com/AsuRqjU.jpg)
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: Mad Max on October 11, 2017, 05:56:00 PM
Looking good Roy
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: Bvas on October 11, 2017, 07:10:00 PM
Looks like Tim is doin great on his first bow.    :saywhat:
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: Roy from Pa on October 11, 2017, 07:19:00 PM
Buffalo horn.
I put mine on the back burner while Tim is building his.. And a little 7up...   :)
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: BMorv on October 12, 2017, 09:12:00 AM
The official start of Trilam season.  I guess I need to finish tillering my trilam that I started months ago.  
It's looking good.  Did you use the same amount of reflex/deflex as your normal setup?  
That one looks like there's more reflex.
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: Roy from Pa on October 13, 2017, 09:22:00 AM
I put in more reflex and less deflex. I do that by moving the mid limb post out more towards the tips.

Tim was here yesterday. He brought a case of water.. What's wrong with this guy? LOL    :)  

Bow on the tree for the first time. The bottom limb to the left is a little stiff, we worked on that for a while.

  (http://i.imgur.com/vifDRRC.jpg)

Bottom limb starting to come around.

  (http://i.imgur.com/ICtb2ZH.jpg)

At rest after being pulled to 19 inches with the long string. It's ready for a 4 inch brace height, but I realized I gave my only longbow stringer to the grandson a couple weeks ago. DUH.. So today I will make a couple longbow stringers..

  (http://i.imgur.com/TtTli8k.jpg)
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: Roy from Pa on October 13, 2017, 09:30:00 AM
Video here. Top limb to the right needs to open up just a tad more.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp8BiibrKms&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: Pat B on October 13, 2017, 09:35:00 AM
Roy, do you like the full draw to have stiff, unbending outer limbs(slightly reflexed) or a full circular tiller throughout from tip to tip on a R/D style bow?
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: Roy from Pa on October 13, 2017, 09:40:00 AM
Circular, Pat. I used to flip the tips with heat before glue up to get the slight reflex at full draw but it seemed to be harder to tiller that way. Almost seemed like making the bow shorter with the heat induced reflex.

   (https://i.imgur.com/zJ9N4IB.jpg)
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: Wolftrail on October 13, 2017, 11:39:00 AM
Profile looks really nice especially at full draw. It sure looks longer than 60".
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: BMorv on October 13, 2017, 04:37:00 PM
Man, you all don't mess around.  It's looking good!  
My trilam's un-braced profile looks just like that one, and I'm having trouble bringing it to low brace.  It keeps popping back to it's un-braced profile with the string laying flat on the handle.  I keep shortening the string but it keeps going back.  Any tips?
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: Roy from Pa on October 13, 2017, 04:49:00 PM
That last picture is not Tims bow. I was just showing Pat what my bows profile looks like.

Benton, it could be that your bow is still way too heavy to string up. A super heavy bow will stretch the crap out of a string. Did you get it bending at floor tiller?
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: BMorv on October 13, 2017, 05:33:00 PM
Thanks Roy.  You are more than likely correct.  I tillered it with the long string but I didn't take much off since I'm shooting for 65 lbs on this one. It's bending, but nothing like my 50 lb bows.  It's probably too heavy even for 65 lbs.  I just don't have a heavy bow to compare it to.
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: Pat B on October 14, 2017, 11:50:00 AM
Roy, I don't build many R/D style bows but that is how I like full draw to look also.
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: perry f. on December 05, 2017, 03:56:00 PM
Roy, I'm thinking of making my first tri-lam this winter. Can you tell me a little more about your form? Dimensions? Thanks
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 05, 2017, 04:54:00 PM
It's a 1 inch thick oak board, 6 inches wide and 6 feet long. I bolted 1 inch angle iron down both long edges. Center post is 3.75" high, mid limb posts are 2.75" high and end posts are 5.5" high.
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: perry f. on December 05, 2017, 05:42:00 PM
Thanks
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: Zradix on December 06, 2017, 01:14:00 PM
looking forward to seeing that 62" bend.
   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: styksnstryngs on December 06, 2017, 05:17:00 PM
Very nice wood, you're doing it justice.
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: LeeNY on December 08, 2017, 01:47:00 PM
Nice job Roy, I like watching your build a longs.

Lee   :clapper:
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: LookMomNoSights on December 10, 2017, 10:23:00 PM
Very cool!!!   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: mikkekeswick on December 11, 2017, 03:12:00 AM
Watch those sharply reflexed transitions as they make tillering harder. It would be better to have the reflexed section blend over a slightly longer area from the deflex. You have quite a sharp transition. Putting more posts on your form would allow you to have the outers less straight.
It is always good to teach others even if they only bring water... ;)
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 11, 2017, 07:24:00 AM
Thanks, I noticed that also, Mike. This bow was shorter than I normally make. Thus the increase of reflex did present a challenge. From now on all my bows will be 66 tip to tip. The bow in the latest trilam build is 66, thus the less reflex and it tillered out like a dream.
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: monterey on December 11, 2017, 09:00:00 AM
Just grind that 'boo off and glue some glass on it.  She'll be OK.   :laughing:    :)
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 11, 2017, 09:14:00 AM
Ya think ole Kennym might sell me some gwass? :)
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: monterey on December 11, 2017, 10:46:00 AM
Yup, and he ships fast too!
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: Bowjunkie on December 11, 2017, 04:03:00 PM
Roy, don't resign yourself to a given or minimum bow length. You can alter other design parameters to make shorter bows that you may like just as well, or better. I've made them less than 60" long and over 60#, they held their shape, and I loved them.

You gotta quit trying to tiller all your bows circular too. When it's not in their best interest, it can make the mid and/or outer limb weak on them and cause set there.
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 12, 2017, 05:35:00 AM
I understand Jeff. All I need to do is on a shorter bow use lower end posts.
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: perry f. on March 05, 2018, 04:15:00 PM
Roy, If you were shooting for 55-60# at 27", what dimensions would to make your stock?
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: Roy from Pa on March 05, 2018, 06:04:00 PM
Belly lam 1/4" parallel.

Core lam 5/32nd at riser, tapered to 1/16th at tips.

Boo 1/8th at riser, tapered to 1/16th at tips.

Flares 1 1/4 wide, hold the 1 1/4 out 6 more inches, then straight taper to 1/2 at tips.

64" tip to tip.
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: BMorv on March 05, 2018, 06:25:00 PM
I'll just add that riser length, power-lams, reflex/deflex amount, and tips wedges all affect your final weight too.  You will have to play around with your setup to get it dialed in.  You may want to go a little thicker on the belly lam on your 1st one.
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: perry f. on March 05, 2018, 07:06:00 PM
Thanks guys. Roy, what size riser do you usually use?
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: Roy from Pa on March 05, 2018, 07:21:00 PM
12 to 13 inches..
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: perry f. on March 06, 2018, 11:00:00 AM
Ok, I've ordered my supplies from Kenny. Roy, could you give a little more specs on your riser? Fade length? Maybe an up close picture? I appreciate all of your help.
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: BMorv on March 06, 2018, 11:31:00 AM
I save most of Roy's builds....
 http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=125;t=012149;p=1#000000
 http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=125;t=013158;p=1
 http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=125;t=010376;p=2
 http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=125;t=013884;p=1
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: Roy from Pa on March 06, 2018, 12:31:00 PM
Benton, LOL yes you do. No wonder you are making good bows..     :laughing:  

Riser block 12 inches long by 1 3/4 wide to start.

Mark the center at 6.5", measure up and down from that center line 2 inches. That will be your 4"grip area. But see below.

I lay out the actual bow shape on my boo and cut that out. I have a pattern already cut to shape and I just use that.

But from the center of the length of the boo, I measure up 2 inches, that is the top of the grip and also is the arrow shelf. From that line I measure up 2 more inches, that is the flare, and measure up 2 more inches and that's the end of the riser.

Then repeat that measuring down from the center. The first 2 inch line is the bottom of the grip area, second 2 inch line is bottom flare and the last 2 inches is the end of the riser.

I use 13 inch risers too, I just add an extra half inch onto the distance between the flare and end of riser on each end.
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: Roy from Pa on March 06, 2018, 12:36:00 PM
This is sorta what you want. I don't have a later picture, but you get the idea..

  (http://i.imgur.com/fdH1NQR.jpg) (https://imgur.com/fdH1NQR)

  (http://i.imgur.com/hqzuOxe.jpg) (https://imgur.com/hqzuOxe)
Title: Re: It's trilam season again
Post by: perry f. on March 06, 2018, 02:27:00 PM
Thanks guys. I really appreciate it.