Trad Gang

Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: Jackpine Boyz on September 11, 2017, 04:24:00 PM

Title: epoxy
Post by: Jackpine Boyz on September 11, 2017, 04:24:00 PM
Hi, looking for some sort of epoxy or glue for putting tip overlays on my self bows and occasionally a riser.  I want something that has ability to expand or gap fill given wood isn't always perfect.  For flat surfaces I use titebond 3 as well as my backings.

I've heard good things about the expanding gorilla super glue with blue top.  Otherwise I was looking at smooth on but don't have a hot box nor a desire to build one.

The joints are typically pretty smooth as I'm sure people will mention that, but sometimes with pin knots and other wood irregularities there are a few areas with small gaps to fill beyond what I want to attempt with titebond 3.
Title: Re: epoxy
Post by: Pat B on September 11, 2017, 05:14:00 PM
I've used TBIII, 2ton epoxy, and gel and thin super glue, all with good success. The epoxy or gel super glue would fill irregularities.
Title: Re: epoxy
Post by: Roy from Pa on September 11, 2017, 05:45:00 PM
Ya don't need a hot box for smooth on. It dries in 24 hours at 70 degrees.
However, when doing bow work such as tip over lays or risers, you should prep your mating surfaces to be darn near perfect.
Title: Re: epoxy
Post by: Mad Max on September 11, 2017, 06:23:00 PM
Yep
darn near
Title: Re: epoxy
Post by: mwosborn on September 11, 2017, 06:33:00 PM
I use smooth on for overlays.  Do not use a hotbox to cure, I just make sure the room is above 70 F.  Sometimes will set the bow under my under cabinet lights where it is a little warmer.   It is slower than super-glue, but I am not in a hurry and have never had a tip fail with smooth on.  And sometimes my mating surfaces are not "darn near perfect"    :D
Title: Re: epoxy
Post by: Robertfishes on September 11, 2017, 08:46:00 PM
I mostly use Gorilla Brand Super Glue (blue top) it does not expand. I sometimes use smooth on.
Title: Re: epoxy
Post by: Bvas on September 11, 2017, 09:30:00 PM
Smooth on for everything.
I'm like Mitch. I use the heatbox for initial glue up and that's it.  Most of my bow work is done in the evenings, so for tips and overlays, I just shine a small lamp on them overnight and by the next day they are set and ready for shaping.
Title: Re: epoxy
Post by: pditto613 on September 11, 2017, 10:27:00 PM
Agree with Robert on the blue cap gorilla glue. How did you survive hurricane Irma Robert?
Title: Re: epoxy
Post by: on September 11, 2017, 11:14:00 PM
Don't use any expanding polyurethane glues...  In my opinion they mostly suck and I only use them in certain applications...
  Go with ea-40...  It will fill your voids... Like they said above, keep the voids minimal... Use minimal clamping pressure...
Title: Re: epoxy
Post by: Pago on September 12, 2017, 01:22:00 AM
Smooth-on here too. I used CA once but it is tricky.
Title: Re: epoxy
Post by: Bowjunkie on September 12, 2017, 05:25:00 AM
I ain't messing around. I know Smooth On works great. I too put a shop light near each overlay. As surface prep, I drag a fine toothing plane blade across each surface so there's no way to starve the joint of glue. No worries.
Title: Re: epoxy
Post by: Robertfishes on September 12, 2017, 10:37:00 AM
I only build fiberglass backed bows. Even though I use the Gorilla Super Glue I think Smooth on is the best for overlays. When using Smooth On and a lamp with a 75 watt bulb I use a meat thermometer to make sure heat stays between 85 and 90 degrees F. The weight of the clamps can twist the ends of your limbs if too much heat is applied
Title: Re: epoxy
Post by: Robertfishes on September 12, 2017, 10:45:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by pditto613:
Agree with Robert on the blue cap gorilla glue. How did you survive hurricane Irma Robert?
I have had to work pretty much non stop since Saturday..We went to our house yesterday afternoon,no electric, I made a bunch of ice jugs and put them in freezer and fridge before storm. no damage to house or bow shop, but truck loads of small oak limbs all over the yard and barn. We cleaned out freezer and fridge and took contents to my office where I have a 150kw diesel generator and 500 gallons of fuel. Hope you guys also came thru it with no big problems too.
Title: Re: epoxy
Post by: on September 12, 2017, 03:20:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Robertfishes:
I The weight of the clamps can twist the ends of your limbs if too much heat is applied
You don't need C-clamps...  Trust me...  All you need is a little spring loaded clamp...  Knock wood I have not had a tip fail yet...
Title: Re: epoxy
Post by: Pat B on September 12, 2017, 03:24:00 PM
I use rubber bands to "clamp" tip overlays. I cut the loop and wrap it. It gives the right tension and holds the overlay evenly so you get a good glue joint. Cheap and very effective.
Title: Re: epoxy
Post by: Roy from Pa on September 12, 2017, 03:56:00 PM
I use rubber bands to "clamp" tip overlays.

Me too.. And have never had one come loose or off using smooth on.

  (https://i.imgur.com/JkGuv3E.png)
Title: Re: epoxy
Post by: Mad Max on September 12, 2017, 04:58:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Shredd:
   
Quote
Originally posted by Robertfishes:
I The weight of the clamps can twist the ends of your limbs if too much heat is applied
You don't need C-clamps...  Trust me...  All you need is a little spring loaded clamp...  Knock wood I have not had a tip fail yet... [/b]
some recurves are not flat at the tip, so a c clamp is needed.
then when you file the string grove in, it springs back.

them flat bow people dont no nuffin.    :)
Title: Re: epoxy
Post by: Roy from Pa on September 12, 2017, 05:06:00 PM
At least flat bow folks know how to spell, enough..     :)
Title: Re: epoxy
Post by: Mad Max on September 12, 2017, 07:56:00 PM
what?
Title: Re: epoxy
Post by: pditto613 on September 12, 2017, 08:39:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Robertfishes:
 
Quote
Originally posted by pditto613:
Agree with Robert on the blue cap gorilla glue. How did you survive hurricane Irma Robert?
I have had to work pretty much non stop since Saturday..We went to our house yesterday afternoon,no electric, I made a bunch of ice jugs and put them in freezer and fridge before storm. no damage to house or bow shop, but truck loads of small oak limbs all over the yard and barn. We cleaned out freezer and fridge and took contents to my office where I have a 150kw diesel generator and 500 gallons of fuel. Hope you guys also came thru it with no big problems too. [/b]
Title: Re: epoxy
Post by: pditto613 on September 12, 2017, 08:43:00 PM
About the same no structural damage.  Lots and lots of limbs down.  20 trailer load to curb already and that's just the front of yard. Just got power back a little while ago
Title: Re: epoxy
Post by: pditto613 on September 12, 2017, 08:44:00 PM
Sorry to hijack the thread. Just checking on a buddy
Title: Re: epoxy
Post by: on September 12, 2017, 11:12:00 PM
I would form the overlays to fit the curve...  ;)
Title: Re: epoxy
Post by: Roy from Pa on September 13, 2017, 06:28:00 AM
Maxi boy hain't that smart..   :)
Title: Re: epoxy
Post by: Robertfishes on September 13, 2017, 08:11:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Shredd:
   
Quote
Originally posted by Robertfishes:
I The weight of the clamps can twist the ends of your limbs if too much heat is applied
You don't need C-clamps...  Trust me...  All you need is a little spring loaded clamp...  Knock wood I have not had a tip fail yet... [/b]
I agree,I did use small C clamps on the first few bows I built, I was worried about crushing the glass with too much pressure. Back in 2010 I bought some spring clamps.  Now I have about 30  harbor freight spring clamps. For tips I mostly use three 050  phenolic pieces, I glue them one at a time,they are pretty flexible and the little spring clamps have no problem holding them down on a recurve limb. The Gorrila brand Super Glue sets very quick and you better be ready and steady when you put your piece onto the bow..I put a piece of masking tape across the limb and glue the first piece onto the limb 1/16" from the tape, after clamping wipe excess glue off of limb.
Title: Re: epoxy
Post by: Jackpine Boyz on September 13, 2017, 12:54:00 PM
thanks for all the replies.
I will look at getting some smooth on, sounds handy.  I did pick up some gorilla blue cap superglue for the time being.  I will use a light clamp.  The gorilla glue says 1 drop per square inch, not that I am that follows directions, but a would expect more than 1 drop for this.  I was planning on 4-5 drops and extra would squeeze out.  Thoughts?  My tip overlay for this bow are 1.25 x 0.625"
Title: Re: epoxy
Post by: Pat B on September 13, 2017, 06:14:00 PM
Try the rubber band trick. It works great and holds at just the right pressure.
Do pre-shape the overlay, at least where it tapers to the limb so you get a good transition.
Title: Re: epoxy
Post by: Robertfishes on September 14, 2017, 08:05:00 AM
I wet both glue surfaces and get some squeeze out. I wipe off excess glue with a clean rag and a q-tip. When working with super glue you must have good ventilation and work fast..it sets pretty darn fast. I got some Bowyers CA glue once and it did set slower, not sure if it's still made though. Again make sure you have good ventilation in your work area. I have a exaust fan that vents outside of shop.
Title: Re: epoxy
Post by: Robertfishes on September 14, 2017, 08:11:00 AM
I also put masking tape on the spring clamp pads..in case glue get on them. And I put butchers paper on bench under tips to catch any glue that may drip off.
Title: Re: epoxy
Post by: on September 14, 2017, 09:51:00 AM
When I use spring clamps I was referring to working with ea-40...  Super glue may be a different animal and may need a tight fit for better adhesion...      
   Maybe someone can chime in about this...

  Note...  Always put enough glue on to have plenty of squeeze-out...
Title: Re: epoxy
Post by: Robertfishes on September 14, 2017, 01:37:00 PM
The thin -1/16" phenolic bends pretty easy and the plastic spring clamps from harbor freight work nicely. I have also used 040 fiberglass for composite tips, but I prefer phenolic. I have an Osage billet bow from 1994 that my friend used a 1/4" thick piece of chechen for the tip, no bending that so he had to make the pieces got with out pressure. We used a FF string.
Title: Re: epoxy
Post by: kennym on September 14, 2017, 06:02:00 PM
I may use too much CA but I want plenty in there. I use the blue top gorilla  , and wet both surfaces. Robert pretty much described my madness of method.
Title: Re: epoxy
Post by: Crooked Stic on September 14, 2017, 07:27:00 PM
Yes sir a little squeeze out you know you got enough. Been using the Blue top years with no problems.
Title: Re: epoxy
Post by: JamesV on September 24, 2017, 07:59:00 AM
I use the black tubes of superglue from WallyWorld 4 tubes $1.57 and have never had a problem. Well................ sometimes I have glued my fingers to the bow tip, if that counts. Clothspins work great

James