Trad Gang
Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: Jackpine Boyz on February 23, 2017, 06:34:00 PM
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Hi, I'm tackling a Mollegabet bow for my wife. This is my first design of this type. She draws around 26" and I'm aiming for around 30-35 pound bow. I am using a piece of hickory cut at 64 " tip to tip. I think this may be a little long but thought to long is better than too short for my first attempt. the handle is black walnut 8" long. I did taper from the handle out about 2 inches on each side from about 0.700" down to 0.485" thick. I have a taper in the limb width about 12" from the tip which runs 0.630" thickness to the tips. I left a transition of 0.485-the 0.625" thickness from 14" to 12" from the tips. The width of the levers runs 0.625" as well.
I got it to a decent floor tiller, but need to rebuild a new tillering wall set up so I won't be able to long string it for another day or too. In the meantime I'd thought I'd throw up some pics and see if anyone has any feedback. (http://imgur.com/a/wQmiP)
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http://imgur.com/a/wQmiP
not sure if the pics loaded. Here is the link to the album again.
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Personally I think the levers are too long, and far too wide. I have an Ash Molly that is 48" long that draws about 35#. The levers are 10" long and about 3/8 deep and 1/4"wide.
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Ken,
Thanks for the response! I see so many heavy levers that I was nervous about going to slim. I figured as long as they don't move thinner is better. I was going to start working them down to slight movement on first part of long tiller then ignore them as I bring the rest of the limb thinner and bring the weight down so they wouldn't flex in the end. The 50+ # examples I saw were 5/8-3/4" thick so was nervous about going to slim to fast.
Hearing the specs on a bow in the poundage I am aiming for is great! Hickory should be a little more forgiving than Ash I'd think also. How wide are the working part of the limbs? I was thinking about sneaking closer to 1 5/8" on those for the lighter bow.
Do your levers run 3/8 x 1/4 " most of their length with a gradual taper to the fade? Say 8" then taper into the fade for the last 2?
Sorry for all the questions, but it sounds like you have answered a ton of questions I was having about this design.
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Most guys make the levers way too thick, really an extra 1/8" won't bend, i like a 60/40 limb to lever ratio, i also on rough out start out 3/4 @ the top fade and taper to 1/2 but that is just rough dimensions also taper the lever side profile 5/8 to 3/8
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The last molle I did had 60/40 working lever ratio. The levers started out at <1/2" and tapered to <3/8". With the thickness being about 1/8" deeper at the lever fades and tapering to 3/8" at the nock. The flexed just the tiniest bit, but so little you could count them as stiff. To me that's when you know you have the levers proper. Just keep shrinking them until at full draw you can just start noticing the smallest amount of flex. Then you will have a very smooth shooter with no handshock. I have a molle I got in a trade a couple years ago out of black licust with super tiny levers.
Kyle
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http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=125;t=007103
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There's a thread here right now called Holmgaard Hickory Bow. Check it out. Someone posted a photo of a Mollegabet by a P-A builder known as Half-Eye, who is one of the masters of building the Mollegabet. His is the light/thin levered Molle I spoke of above
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So here is an update.
I shortened down to 60" NTN and narrowed to 1.500"
thickness is now 0.390" in working limb
0.500" thick in levers by 0.625" wide. ( levers will be closer to 0.562" after I clean them up).
There is about 3.5" reflex on one side and around 2" on the other.
I just got things moving a bit and shortened my long string so it barely touches the handle when strung.
I tillered a couple spots that I was concerned about hinging to get this far. I am still overweight, I am pulling 9" measured from the back in the videos at about 20#, my target weight is 30-35#.
Before I start working to far I wanted to post a video on my progress and get some feedback on where to focus my tillering efforts while I still have a lot of poundage to drop. I have tillered a few pyramid/flatbows but the molly is something new for me.
Should I start getting more bend mid limb then chase towards the handle? I've read that the working limbs should bend like half circles, but reading and doing are often two different beasts.
Thanks for the feed back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZibcpdGv2vU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7NyGqhCEb4
:archer2:
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Originally posted by Mo_coon-catcher:
The last molle I did had 60/40 working lever ratio. The levers started out at <1/2" and tapered to <3/8". With the thickness being about 1/8" deeper at the lever fades and tapering to 3/8" at the nock. The flexed just the tiniest bit, but so little you could count them as stiff. To me that's when you know you have the levers proper. Just keep shrinking them until at full draw you can just start noticing the smallest amount of flex. Then you will have a very smooth shooter with no handshock. I have a molle I got in a trade a couple years ago out of black licust with super tiny levers.
Kyle
sage advice there Kyle. I can't agree more. The best stiff lever is one that just barely barely barely bends at full draw. That when you've gotten the weight down to a minimum, which after all is the whole point.
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Here are some photos of my only Mollegabet red oak and walnut 55@28" in case they might be helpful.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5524/13595553764_024b345d33_c.jpg)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7260/13595233323_9893269cf5_c.jpg)
] (https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7136/13595592264_9c85fbfafc_c.jpg)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3715/13595597574_b977cf5a73_c.jpg)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3696/13884571491_c12da2f8b2_c.jpg)
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Nice looking Mollegabet there Pago -- too bad about that arrow shelf :rolleyes: :dunno:
Real Mollegabet bows have a narrow simple handle and you shoot off the hand!
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We are sophisticated rednecks out here in the west. :nono: We don't pierce our hands with fletchings, it's just not fashionable. And BTW that is not me in the picture, this bow was made for my son, pictured.
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We swamp rats here in Florida don't pierce our hands with fletches gone awry either -- we wear a bow-hand-glove that doubles as thick back-of-hand protection and armguard! Good lookin' son you got there.
Its those wheelie-bow people who "come to real bows" that have a massive tendency to overdraw and shoot themselves in the hand!
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:laughing:
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pago,
Thanks for the picks at draw, that helps a lot. This weekend I had my friend help me tune my tiller, both limbs are pretty similar to your bottom limb. I have it flexing at 20# at 20" so I may need to trim a half inch each end for the nock points to a 59" ntn to gain a couple pounds as I am hoping for 24" at 25-30 #.
I am really liking this design, it really bends nice. when the wife's done I think I'll need to make myself one. I'll be all practiced up on hers then. :D
I am thinking about a rawhide backing for this bow also. Just to try something new.
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Originally posted by KenH:
Nice looking Mollegabet there Pago
Fixed it for you
:thumbsup:
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If you havnt already, hickory loves a good deep heat treat, and should bump up the poundage atleast 5# if done well, maybe even up to 10#. Then you wouldn't have to trim if you don't want to.
Kyle
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Kyle,
Thanks for the info. I have heard of heat treating but never tried it. Would that increase durability as well? I don't really need backing with the hickory I have, was just thinking on rawhide backing to try it and extra insurance is always nice.
Heat treating may be a neat experiment. I'll do some studying on it.
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Hickory is much stronger in tension than compression, so heat treating evens things out a bit and helps to reduce set. It's very similar to trapping the back in this effect. They both help to even this inequality. One by hardening the belly and also ups the poundage a bit, the other reduces thr amount of material contributing to the amount of tension and also drops a couple pounds of draw. Both will make for a lighter weight for poundage bow and both reduce the amount of set vs doing neither.
Personally I love heat treating and do it to almost every hickory and black locust now I make. Heat treat does great things with black locust.
Kyle
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Heated treated the molly. I really like what that did for the hickory.
I also put a strip of rawhide on the back. Propably didn't need to , but it was nice to experiment, and I would definetly hear about it if the wife's bow broke the first time she shot it.
I need to redo one of my nocks that didn't glue up correctly then it will be final tiller.