Trad Gang
Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: Bvas on December 13, 2016, 05:39:00 PM
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Let me begin with, my wife is GREAT and knows me all too well. And this trad stuff is addicting.
The other night the wife tells me she is surprised that I haven't buoght any new bows lately. Keep in mind I usually purchase used bows under $100 that are sound shooters but just need a little TLC and refinish work to get them looking good as well. So I break the news to her that I am saving up to have a custom built. Her response......you're not spending $1000 dollars on a custom bow.
I informed her that I intended to keep it under $500 .....or I could just try and build my own for about the same. :goldtooth:
Plus, I could do it in stages so all the money isn't spent at one time. ;)
To my surprise she told me to make sure and do as much research as possible and build my own so it would be exactly what I want. She knows as well as I do that I will not be happy until I harvest a big mature whitetail with a bow I made myself.
I fully intend to keep a log of progress and ask lots of questions. But keep in mind, I'm in no hurry and have three kids that keep me busy when I'm not at work. So this project will probably be a long time in the making.
the good news is I guess I'm already up to about step 3 or 4 of the build.
Step #1 Get the wife's OK
Step #2 Decide bow style - fiberglass D/R longbow
Step #3 Decide Length - 56"
Wish me luck, and expect lots of questions!!!
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For your first one, you simply can not beat going with a proven design and instructional materials from Bingham's Projects Inc. Many bowyers started out this way.
Good luck and welcome to another addiction.
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Ummm, she's wrong, you will be happy with a wimpy whitetail with a bow you built!! :bigsmyl:
But you will love shooting and hunting with a bow you made, and stay after that big one! :thumbsup:
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Originally posted by jsweka:
For your first one, you simply can not beat going with a proven design and instructional materials from Bingham's Projects Inc. Many bowyers started out this way.
Good luck and welcome to another addiction.
x2
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Good luck :)
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Originally posted by jsweka:
For your first one, you simply can not beat going with a proven design and instructional materials from Bingham's Projects Inc.
I completely respect that suggestion. And I have pondered going that route. However, I can't bring myself to put my time and money into something that isn't truly what I am looking for. I would rather fail attempting what I want then succeed with another.
Instead, I have started looking at another proven design that is pretty close to what I am looking for. I'm hoping that with a little time on the computer I can proportionally shrink the kennym 60" design down to 56". I was glad to see Kenny chime in and hope I don't step on any toes by asking toooo many questions.
I have followed many threads on the bench, and I am amazed and impressed out how great the guys here are at encouraging and helping others to be successful.
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Good luck on your project. I have built many bows on the Kenny M design. He's a great guy to allow all of us to copy his work. I just completed a 58 tip to tip bow and love how it came out. I don't know if your looking for a 56 tip to tip but I found that the 58 inch bow is plenty short enough for any ground hunting and/or tree stand.
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You can shrink it, because I shrank it to 50" for a kid bow. I built one and gave the form to David Flanrey, because he has some grandkids that need bows....
Just be aware, you are also shrinking the draw length.
Keep the nocks a couple inches ahead (toward target)of the bow back to get preload and it will perform better and be quieter too.
I can't remember how I did the stack, but you won't have to change it much for 2" shorter.
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Thanks Kenny!!
My plan is to shorten the riser to 16" and get the limb tips forward of the bow back about the same amount as they are at 58" on your 58-60 form while maintaining the same deflex.
I draw 28.5-29", but actually prefer the bow to load and have a "hard wall" at that point.
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The 58" will go about 29.5" before it starts picking up weight faster. You should be in the ballpark there. I'll make a SWAG at stack while I'm here. I would guess about 4# under weight you want on the chart for 58" is gonna be close at 56".
I'm taking off 2# for a 2" shorter riser and adding 6 # for shortening bow 2".
Disclaimer: I have no idea on a 56"..... :laughing:
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Thanks for the SWAG. All input is appreciated, scientific or not. Lol.
When figuring tapers into the stack....the thickness is calculated at the ends of the fade?
So a .090 lam with .001 taper would be figured as .082 on a 16" riser. Correct?
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When I sold lams I measured at the butt because all risers aren't same length.
You have the math right on that way tho.
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Well..... I think I'm finally done with the design phase.
As I said before, I started with Kenny's design. Although I'm not sure many, if any, of the original lines remain.
Here's how it ended up:
56" nock to nock
16" riser
Measuring from the back:
1-3/4" Deflex
1-5/8" Refex @ tips
I'll get it cut out later, and hope all the pieces fit together properly. I didn't wanna fork over the cash to have the form printed on a single sheet, so there will be a little cutting and taping going on.
Now I guess the work can begin. Well sort of. I can start on the riser a little bit. But I'm gonna have to get my list figured so that I can get materials ordered. I wont make it very far without epoxy.
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I would make a 1/4" ply template of one limb and half the riser, and use the router way to get exact same limb profile on each end. Prob could search form builds, I can help you later, I got an appointment with a tree stand right now....
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Thanks Kenny.
The form is currently on the back burner. Waiting on the BIL to come up with some free 3/4 cabinet grade plywood for the form. He works setting up dentist offices, and some of the equipment is shipped in crates made from the plywood.
Good luck in the tree!!
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Here is how I build forms, the form is sweet, hate the bow off it..... :biglaugh:
http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=125;t=012422#000000
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Thanks for the link, very helpful!!
I will only be building the bottom form as i intend to clamp the riser section and the rubber band method for the limbs. I'm sure I will have questions about setting up the form for that as I get closer.
On another note.... The original plans call for an 1-1/2" riser cut to center at the site window. I would like to cut the window an 1/8" past center. To keep the riser stiff enough, I will make it 1-3/4" thick and have the extra quarter inch extend past and taper back into the limbs on the side opposite the arrow.
Does this seem feasible?
I should probably add that intend to use three pieces of walnut laminated together to make the riser.
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Alright. Well I think I have asked enough questions and done enough reading to finally get this ball rolling.
Design is all done and template cut and sanded. Hopefully this weekend I can get the plywood for the form glued and screwed. But that's all for today.
Time to get ready to watch some fooseball(the Devils game). GO BUCKS!!
(http://i.imgur.com/JtuN9ld.jpg)
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I don't know how you guys do it all time??
I caught myself just staring at the form at this point simply thinking "Man this thing is gonna look sexy!" Not sure if it's the firms uncanny resemblance to a woman's upper body or what?
(http://i.imgur.com/R2TXjnu.jpg)
Anyways I'm off and running. Form is cut and I used a template bit in the drill press to true and square up the form. Right now the form is about 1-7/8" thick. I will use a flush bit to thin the top 1-1/2" of the form to 1-1/2" thick or a few thousandths over depending on what the lams measure once they get here. Which will be never...if I don't get them ordered.
Please chime in. ESPECIALLY, if you see me doing something wrong!!!
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Double, Triple check for squareness... Anything a little off will multiply by the time it reaches the end of the limb...
Looks good... Looks pretty similar to the curves I use in my bow... Gotta watch those curves coming off the riser... They could make yah or break yah...
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Alright.... so I finally got my material ordered and received the lams in the mail. The wife texted me "your bow came today". I told her "lol, some assembly required"
The fiberglass is dead on 1.5", but the wood lams are nearly 1.6". What is the safest way to narrow the lams. I don't have an edge sander. So I'm thinking about clamping them to the bench with a metal strip as a guide then using either a small belt sander or maybe just a razor. Any suggestions?
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No razor
Hand sand with the metal strip as a guide.
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yep
80 or 120 grit will take it off easy
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Well I'm glad you are putting some wood in it.. :)
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Originally posted by Roy from Pa:
Well I'm glad you are putting some wood in it.. :)
Baby steps Roy.
Maybe once I get a few under my belt I'll let you coach me through a tri lam........maybe ;)
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I'd have to think on that one.. :)
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Don't strain yourself thinking about it. I figure it will be awhile.
But who knows, I might just show up at your door with a six pack.......of 7up :D
That is if I knew where you were in PA.
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Things have been a little busy with work and kids basketball, but I've managed to sneak in a little bit of work on the bow and form. Today I got my first experience with smooth on. Wow!!! Dry run on riser inlay seemed so easy. Add smooth on and pieces just wanna slide everywhere except where you want them. Luckily I had lots of clamps ready. I think everything ended up where it was supposed to be. Guess I'll know tomorrow when I pull the clamps off.
(http://i.imgur.com/cSm70vc.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/lpEj7Kq.jpg)
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Also swung by the tire shop and scored a couple free tire tubes. I think the form is all ready to go. As long as the contact cement bonds good with the galvanized metal strip. I'll check that in a few days to make sure the cement is completely dried. If not, I guess I'll have to countersink a few screws in it.
(http://i.imgur.com/2kJi7Iw.jpg)
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Contact cement seems to work with just about anything. It looks good. Never thought to use a metal strip there.
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The riser came out of the first clamp up ok. Not perfect, just ok. Few thick glue lines. If nothing else, I learned a lot about smoothon and clamping. I think it will still make a riser. The riser is back in the clamps now with the top piece of walnut and will come out this evening.
(http://i.imgur.com/yWxu7Af.jpg)
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The second part of the riser glue up was a success. Got it all sanded up. Then I split it back into the two pieces it originally started as(they were temporarily bonded by a couple thin strips of pine), and sanded those two sides. Now I will add a third board into the middle and laminate them back together.
I know this seems confusing and complicated, but there are a couple reasons for it. I wanted an 1-3/4" wide riser so I could cut the site window an 1/8" past center, because I mostly shoot large diameter aluminum. I also wanted the inlay to show both sides unbroken, but also wanted a single board in the middle uncut to act as an I beam.
(http://i.imgur.com/thJHsxA.jpg)
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Got my backside lams spliced and cut to length. And finally got to do my first dry fit with the riser block. I gotta say, I am one lucky sob. Riser fits the form nearly perfect.
(http://i.imgur.com/UX0S3Re.jpg)
The only place I can see any light is at both ends of the riser. This pic is of the worse side.
(http://i.imgur.com/fS6iMSI.jpg)
I think it will be alright once the fades are cut and sanded. They should be thin enough to flex to the form.
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Alright gentlemen, I could really use some honest feedback here. Right now the riser is about 2.5" deep. I may bring it down to 2.25", but I also plan on having a little higher wrist than most longbows. This would allow me to cut the throat a little deeper without sacrificing strength.
Any thoughts/suggestions?
(http://i.imgur.com/WHyr09k.jpg)
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Finally got all my lams cut to length and on the form for my first dry run. I just cut a few small bands to hold everything in place and check fit. Looks like I'm gonna have to add another set of dowels to get good pressure on the belly lams. Or I will need to soften the belly curves a little. Or maybe both, who knows.
Things are progressing a little slow. But it's all good, as long as I keep moving forward and not backward.
(http://i.imgur.com/Sx1Qdsz.jpg)
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Well I think glue up is finally gonna happen this weekend. I've done a couple dry runs and everything seems to be fitting together well.
Any last words of wisdom?
Keep your fingers crossed!!!
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Plastic wrap and extra gloves are your friend!
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Keep the centerline of riser and form clear so you can be sure to get all centered up. I mark the edges of lams and glass too with center so I can keep those on center of form. Especially if you have a taper under riser.
Loosen the side washers up a bit and hand tighten when aired up. If they pinch the glass and lame, you will have a thick spot on limb edge. Mistake # 1,251 for me! LOL
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Originally posted by kennym:
Loosen the side washers up a bit and hand tighten when aired up. If they pinch the glass and lame, you will have a thick spot on limb edge. Mistake # 1,251 for me! LOL
Where do I put the air in my rubber bands?? :confused:
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LOL, my mistake!! :laughing:
Should have looked at your pic better!
You may still want the washers just snug so the glue can squeeze out evenly along edges.....
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Seriously though, I thought about leaving them loose, but am afraid I won't be able to get them in place once the bands are on.
I've got them set so they are just barely below the top of the lams, so I should be able to tell if the lams hang up.
Also center line is marked on form, riser and back lams. Back lams are doweled to the riser. Also have stops on top of riser and lam ends with about 1/16-1/8" of play.
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Sounds good, I use the air hose but put the washers on and air up, then with a screwdriver loosen just a bit. The lams should be pretty stationary at that point.
Good luck!!!
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You should still be able to move the lams around a little bit after you put the bands on. If using inner tube I tighten it to the point just about all the stretch is taken out of the rubber but not all and not enough to break it. That is one aspect I have never seen fully explained anywhere. I guessed and it worked out well. I tried to guestimate how much 60-70 psi would be and that is pretty tight when it comes to rubber inner tubes stretched across a form.
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(http://i.imgur.com/bCqWtEF.jpg)
Ready for glue!!
Here we go!!
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I'm going against the grain on this, but while the washers are great for hose forms, the rubber band form is (just my obnoxious opinion :) ) better suited to straight up blocks. The washers are ideal for keeping lams aligned without interfering with a hose but that fine adjustment detail is. Not necessary with rubber bands.
Here's how I do them on a rubber band form. They can have about 1/16" of slop during lay up and then tighten them down before putting on the bands.
(http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac170/longcruise/Archery/Kenny%20bow/IMG_20160524_113334378_zpsnt2waylu.jpg)
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Mike, I've been using pcs of plywood on some of my forms about like you have there...
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Ply would probably be better than the sticks on mine. Think they were some very soft pine. You can see the huge growth rings. Lucky they held up. :)
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Might try that next time.
Too late for this one. It's in the oven now.
(http://i.imgur.com/iTCaGtD.jpg)
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That looks like a good lay up. The rubber bands do a lot to keep things lined up.
Can't wait to see it come off the form. :)
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A little blood, a little beer, and a whole bunch of bad words.
But all in all I think it's ok. my biggest concern is if the plastic wrap stayed out of it.
Every place I could check, gaps looked good. But I know for sure that I couldn't get the belly lams to slide up the ramps to the top of the riser. I think they ended up about a 1/4" shy. Good thing the riser is a little deep, so it shouldn't hurt anything.
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Just a thought, after you clamp the riser and set the belly stack in place, have you guys ever tried taping the belly lams and glass at an angle (sort of a right angle from the belly ramp) to the form to pull it upslope while you band it?
Ive done a total of 1 band form and didn't like it. So I hose em.
Then there was the time I put the hose on the pressure strip and used ski rope to go back and forth on the pegs of the band form. Then aired the hose up thinking it would be like a top form on it if the rope held it down......Almost worked, had a fat glue line on the belly ramp on one side... :biglaugh:
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And I bet that 1/4" will trim off, I think you have plenty of riser....
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I ended up starting at the tip end and wrapping toward the riser. The belly lams were alright. They ended up about an 1/8" off the riser(which is where the stops were set).
It was the the short belly side power lams that were giving me fits. They did not want to slide up the riser.
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It's out!!!
Initial inspection looks good. Don't see any huge glue joints.
Time to start grinding glue to get a better look.
(http://i.imgur.com/CY058GQ.jpg)
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:thumbsup:
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Knocked the big goobers off, and sanded one side of the riser down to flush.
Fades and ramps look good :)
I think I should be good to mark out and cut/grind limb profile.
(http://i.imgur.com/zNXKjHz.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/4DQajcS.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ZMz5v3j.jpg)
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Looks good :thumbsup:
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Real good for a first bow!!! :clapper:
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Good job on your first. :clapper:
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I guess it's OK...
:wavey: :thumbsup:
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You got it going
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Looks great! Your first arrow out of it you will always remember!
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Thanks gents (and Roy).
Got the profile tapered today. And started shaping the grip a little bit. Mostly wanted to see if I was gonna have enough grip length or if I needed to add overlays to the belly, but I think I'll be fine with out. I do want to add overlays to the back and tips. So those will be going on before I finish shaping the grip and sights window.
(http://i.imgur.com/uYDB13b.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/x1LSsJV.jpg)
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Forgot to mention. I know this has been discussed multiple times and there are various methods. I started by using blue painters tape to lay out the profile lines. Next I began removing material with a 4" grinder with a flap sanding disk to get within 1/16" of my masked marks. This went really quick. Then used my small belt sander to get as close to the tape as I could without violating it. Finished off with some 100grit on a nice long chunk of wood.
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Ya did well.
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when you pull tape off the limbs you can pull a sliver of glass with it , so sand the corners down the limbs and pull the tape off from the riser down to the tips
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(http://i.imgur.com/LPnp9yO.jpg)
String on!!!!
Alright, so the scale I have only goes to 50#. I hit that mark at about 25.5-26". So I'm guessing it will hit the upper 50s @28". The bow is braced at 7". Tiller is dead even.
My target weight was in the low 50s.
Should I try to drop some weight on the upper limb now, or wait til I'm closer to completion. I still need to finish shaping grip and do final sanding.
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Nice job, round the limb edges, then check tiller again. Shoot a arrow or two and maybe tiller is where it needs to be??
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I guess it's ok...
:thumbsup:
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looking good
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Looks great! We do require a full draw pic at some point..... :D
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(http://i.imgur.com/Hp6PRqY.jpg)
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Judge the bow, not my form. Between the sharp edges on the grip, no glove, and my daughter making me laugh.....this is the best I could muster.
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Looks good!
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Looks good!
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The bow looks grreat. Is there enough fade transition in those limbs.?
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Not sure I understand the question. But the limbs have .003 total taper and are profiled from full width about 1" off the fades to 1/2" at the tips. They also have a 6-1/2" .002 tip wedge.
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Fade transition is basically a long thickness taper from the limbs into the handle. Hence; gradual bend in the fades. Not sure if I explained this correctly.
I had a few problems in my bows because of this.
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I'm not sure it shows in the pics. But the wood in the riser is only part of the fades. I kinda cheated and built the riser with a piece of red glass on the back side and this is what became the fades on the riser.
I've had the bow to full draw about a dozen times. And so far it seams to be holding well :pray:
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Bow's form looks good, your form sucks.. LOL
Very nice dude..
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Originally posted by Roy from Pa:
Bow's form looks good, your form sucks.. LOL
Very nice dude..
Thanks Roy.
You know, you really missed your calling as a motivational speaker. :laughing:
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Been working the past couple days on the riser. The grip feels comfortable, just not sure I like all my other contour lines. May leave it alone for a couple days to get a fresh look.
(http://i.imgur.com/1zUYEyG.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/FzYqc34.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/as7Gdqy.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/bahfhfI.jpg)
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Looks comfy! One thing you might do on the next is radius the corner from shelf to side plate. You won't have any probs with the I-beam in there, but when a riser gives it is usually from that spot down across the riser at an angle it seems.
The radius helps somewhat on that.
Congrats on a shooter!! You have shot it, yes? :D
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Nope.
I'll tell you the same thing I told my wife. I'm not shooting it til it's done!! Well...... maybe before the finish goes on.
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I always have to shoot em before they are done!! :goldtooth:
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Your doing good
Nice job
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It's getten better, might give it AN OK now.. :)
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Originally posted by kennym:
I always have to shoot em before they are done!! :goldtooth:
Apparently so do I :biglaugh:Finished shaping grip and tips today, and couldn't resist. Put 10 arrows thru her.
(http://i.imgur.com/WO1AFbr.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ieKcMGt.jpg)
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And you like? I'm bettin on it!!
:thumbsup:
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So far, I'm loving it!!! ;)
It definitely hits hard.
Arrow flight wasn't the best. But that's to be expected with no restf, no nocking point, and arrows that I'm sure were underspined.
I think I'm gonna set up a tiller tree and check timing/string travel before I finish it. Bow is still a little heavier than I wanted. So I figure any tiller adjustments I make will also help drop a little weight.
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:thumbsup:
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No finer sound than that of an arrow you made from a bow you made hitting the target!
Then there's the opposite...
The crack of a failed bow.
It's what makes it interesting!
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All Done!!!
Ran about 100 arrows thru it today and got it all tuned up(got the bruise on my forearm to prove it, lol). Not hitting my arm any more. Very little shock, and just a nice little thud on release. A big thanks to all the trad gangers for their help. And a big thanks to Kenny!!! One for giving out the blue prints for all to use, and two for answering all my questions and free advice. Not sure it is still considered a Kennym with all the tweaks I did, but I know it started its roots there lol. Hope ya like the pics, cuz I LOVE the bow!!!
(http://i.imgur.com/0pr5iOb.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/OhWoz1f.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/KSBcBGv.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/l5DDB4J.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/c6b9du1.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/B2ysySb.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/zOrYW2G.jpg)
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It really looks good, you did a fine job
Time to start a number 2
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You're hooked LOL. Nice bow and and glad it worked out so well for you.
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Originally posted by Mad Max:
Time to start a number 2
Yeppers :goldtooth:
Number 2-5 are already in the planning stages!!!
I think the wife and three kids were waiting to see if I was successful before placing their orders. We had a lottery draw on Sunday. My 13 yr old son Clay will be helping build his bow next.
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Originally posted by BenBow:
You're hooked LOL.
Oh yeah :thumbsup:
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Very nice....
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You done good Brad! Real good!! :thumbsup:
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Good job man!!!
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That's a good looking bow- nice job!
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Thanks guys!!
I REALLY enjoyed building it.
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I guess it's ok... :thumbsup:
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Originally posted by Roy from Pa:
I guess it's ok... :thumbsup:
I know.
Needs more wood, and less glass. :rolleyes:
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I think you got the glass/ wood ratio just right.... :biglaugh: