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Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: BenBow on October 03, 2016, 06:04:00 PM

Title: Found a good hard finish
Post by: BenBow on October 03, 2016, 06:04:00 PM
As a hobby builder of maybe a couple of bows a year I've never been able to justify the cost of equipment and epoxy finishes. I've tried many different types but had settled on Helmsman's satin poly in a rattle can. But I've never been happy with the durability. Then Kenny mentioned using clear matte wheel finish so I thought I'd give it a try. I picked up a can of VHT high temp matte clear wheel paint at AutoZone for $8. I had a couple of bows sprayed with camo paint that would be good test subjects So I lightly sanded them to rough the finish. The can said to recoat in 10 minutes so I gave each bow 4 coats and let them set over night. The finish is so hard and slick you can't write on it with a pen or pencil. It has more of a satin finish than matte so I tried 0000 steelwool on it and couldn't tell I'd touched it so I tried 00 which scratched it some. I finaly wet sanded it with 800 grit sandpaper and then sprayed it with rustoleum dead flat durable topcoat. I hit that with 0000 and feel it's dull enough. I'll be hunting deer in a couple of weeks and will have a better idea on how well it holds up once I drop them from the tree stand.
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: on October 03, 2016, 10:13:00 PM
Good to know...  I did my first bows with Helmsman...  Liked it except for the yellowing...
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: DoubleLung on October 03, 2016, 11:26:00 PM
Do you coat your limbs with this also? Wondering how it holds up with the limbs bending?

Thanks,
Tim
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: BenBow on October 04, 2016, 08:11:00 AM
Yes Tim and so far its held up fine and I'll update this after more shooting and my hunting trip to get a better idea of durability.  Maybe I'll drop one of my bows in the rocks today and see what happens.
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: BenBow on October 04, 2016, 09:56:00 AM
Well I dropped one of my bows on crushed rock which scraped the flat finish but didn't faze the wheel finish and dropping the other side of the bow on 1" to 3" river rock didn't do anything. Looking good so far. So I'll see how it holds up to limb flexing.
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: Longtoke on October 05, 2016, 06:20:00 PM
very interested, thanks for keeping us updated!
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: jess stuart on October 05, 2016, 08:36:00 PM
Galen did you drop them on purpose?  If so you are committed to testing this finish very well.  Thanks for the heads I will pick up a can and give it a try.
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: BenBow on October 05, 2016, 10:36:00 PM
Yeah Jess sometimes I do things with out really thinking them through.     :knothead:  But it's my bow and my bows are always in prototype testing mode.
But I did find out it is tough stuff. It just has more shine than I like and the matte finish I sprayed over it isn't as durable. It got scratched when I dropped the bow on crushed rock with it's sharp edges but the wheel finish didn't show any damage.
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: bow loving man on October 06, 2016, 06:50:00 PM
Pm sent
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: EwokArcher on October 18, 2016, 10:30:00 AM
They didn't have vht high heat in wheel finish, they had vht high heat clear for headers. I ended up going with duplicolor clear matte wheel finish. I'll let yall know how it turns out. Gonna have to find some good river rocks for testing now...
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: Longtoke on October 24, 2016, 02:20:00 AM
How did it gow Ewok?
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: EwokArcher on October 24, 2016, 07:36:00 AM
I did not extensive rock testing... but I can tell you I tried scratching it with my nail and it didn't budge. I'll use this as my go to. Especially for only 9$ per can, that's like 2$ more than the heilsman I was using and I'll probably be able to get several bows worth out of this can. Thanks  for the suggestion sir.
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: monterey on October 25, 2016, 12:30:00 PM
Would be interesting to know exactly what it is.  There might be a more economical way of purchasing it.  Even so, $4.50 per bow is not unreasonable.  I need to do a refinish and will give this a try.
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: BenBow on October 25, 2016, 06:44:00 PM
I just returned from a week of deer hunting where I pushed it trough thick cedars, pushed it through sand while I belly crawled, and pretty much beat it up. It came through with no chips or sctatches.
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: scrub-buster on October 25, 2016, 09:40:00 PM
I bought a can of the clear matte finish.  I put 3 coats on a 24" test bow this afternoon.  I'm going to give it a rough test run tomorrow and see how it works.  I like it so far.
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: BenBow on October 26, 2016, 08:55:00 AM
Scrub it gets tougher with a few days cure time.
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: bow loving man on October 26, 2016, 10:49:00 AM
I used the Matte on two bows and was amazed at how smooth the finish was when dry!  Has anyone used the high gloss version of this?  Just wondering if it finished out as smooth and nice as the Matte?
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: scrub-buster on October 26, 2016, 07:56:00 PM
I liked how it looked on my little test bow.  I flexed it a lot and it didn't crack or wrinkle.  I was impressed.  I finished a knife with osage burl scales today and used it for the finish.
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: kennym on October 26, 2016, 08:56:00 PM
My bow has a nick in it, but it fell out of the stand somehow....  :p
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: Crooked Stic on October 26, 2016, 09:46:00 PM
Can it be bought in quarts for using in a spray gun?
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: monterey on October 26, 2016, 10:12:00 PM
Or maybe for arrow finish?  :)
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: bow loving man on October 26, 2016, 10:51:00 PM
Hmm Kenny my bow with thunderbird finish has a nice nick in it.... it got dropped outof a stand too!
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: on October 27, 2016, 04:41:00 PM
I am on board...  I just bought two cans yesterday...  I will still be using my auto finish but will probably spray my next personal bow with the VHT stuff...
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: BenBow on October 27, 2016, 09:32:00 PM
I took a piece of maple and sprayed several coats of vht two weeks ago. I got back home this week so I attacked it with a baseball size piece of quartz. The finish chipped if I put a dent in the wood with a point of the rock. If I hit it with a flatter part of the rock it scuffed the surface. I don't know if it's as durable as the two part finishes but for a small time builder it's way better than anything I've tried before.
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: 7 Lakes on November 12, 2016, 06:12:00 PM
Anyone trying this stuff in sub zero weather please post the results.
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: monterey on November 12, 2016, 10:56:00 PM
I'm guessing you mean exposing the applied finish to sub zero temps?

I plan to use it on a board bow I've been working on.  It will get some cold exposure this winter.

I used it last week as final finish on some oak kitchen chairs.  Results were good.
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: iohkus on November 19, 2016, 06:25:00 PM
Don't use it on top of other brand paints, lifts them right off. Bare wood is fine.
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: BenBow on November 19, 2016, 09:53:00 PM
Ioukus I have applied it over flat camo paint with no problems but I'm sure there are some finishes that will be incompatible. One should test it on scrap pieces first to be sure it will work.
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: yaderehey on November 30, 2016, 08:58:00 AM
Anybody know if this stuff will work/is compatible with Truoil?  I've skinned some limbs and sealed them with Truoil and was looking for a good hard satin/matte finish to put on top of the Truoil.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: monterey on November 30, 2016, 12:44:00 PM
I was thinking the same thing.  We could flip a coin to see who trys it first!   :saywhat:
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: HornHunter on November 30, 2016, 06:15:00 PM
I just refinished a bow coco bola handle-riser bow
I sealed the coco with super glue wet sanded 800 grit twice, put 3 coats of the clear matte wheel paint on and it looks fantastic! I am going to let it set for a couple of days to cure then string it up and put it through the paces, so far it looks very nice, smooth satin finish
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: monterey on November 30, 2016, 10:16:00 PM
Cool, but, as Roy says no pictures and it didn't happen!   :)
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: yaderehey on November 30, 2016, 10:39:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by monterey:
I was thinking the same thing.  We could flip a coin to see who trys it first!     :saywhat:  
Mike, I just flipped and you lost....seriously I'm going to Casper (nearest AutoZone) this weekend and will pick up a couple of cans.  I'll give it a try.  Need to come up with a warm place to spray though...
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: BenBow on November 30, 2016, 11:10:00 PM
I found the duplicolor wheel finish to be more sensitive to other finishes than the VHT finish from AutoZone. The VHT gives such a smooth hard finish and I much prefer it. Man I'm glad others are having as good of results as I have. Thanks again Kenny.
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: monterey on December 01, 2016, 12:54:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by yaderehey:
 
Quote
Originally posted by monterey:
I was thinking the same thing.  We could flip a coin to see who trys it first!      :saywhat:    
Mike, I just flipped and you lost....seriously I'm going to Casper (nearest AutoZone) this weekend and will pick up a couple of cans.  I'll give it a try.  Need to come up with a warm place to spray though... [/b]
Gonna be a while before we get that warm place back.  My "shop" (the driveway and the patio) are closed pending a warm up.  Gonna be even colder in your neighborhood.
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: HornHunter on December 01, 2016, 09:43:00 AM
Ill send someone some pics soon as I get them,they can post them, make sure you have a well ventilated spray area, I think for the price it cant be beat
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: kennym on December 01, 2016, 12:48:00 PM
I have to get some of the VHT, the flat wheel finish from duplicolor chips. Unless I didn't get a good job prepping for it. It was months after the original clearcoat, same brand.

Did you find a way to get a flat finish with it, Galen?
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: BenBow on December 01, 2016, 05:39:00 PM
Kenny with thanksgiving and family I haven't taken the time to look into it. What I used before isn't as durable I'll get some pictures of the test piece I did and hit it with the quartz rock again.
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: bigbob2 on December 01, 2016, 05:40:00 PM
Kenny I used the gloss and a day or so after spraying I buffed with 0000 steel wool and it came out as a sort of satin finish.
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: monterey on December 01, 2016, 06:32:00 PM
I saw the satin for sale at O'reillys.  I bought the VHT gloss for some kitchen chairs and it worked fine.  Ran out and bought a can of the Duplicolor and it seemed to work the same.

Kenny, ya got me worried about using the Duplicolor on a bow refinish.
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: scrub-buster on December 02, 2016, 12:17:00 AM
I used the duplicolor matte on a selfbow and it has held up great.  No chipping yet.
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: BenBow on December 02, 2016, 09:11:00 AM
I'll try to take a piece of wood and do sections with different base finishes on opposite sides of the wood and then spray 3 coats of the duplicolor and the VHT over them. I'll put it in my hot box at 70-90 degrees overnight and then do a torture test with a sharp rock. I'll start a new thread with pictures.  I want to see for myself how they hold up. I won't have some base finishes though so you'll have to do it with your own favorite if I don't have it.
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: kennym on December 02, 2016, 09:49:00 AM
Mine could have been the prep I did or didn't do on it. Looks like poor adhesion to the 2 month old finish.
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: BenBow on December 02, 2016, 12:15:00 PM
My wife fell and broke her wrist and leg at the knee so I have to get the housework done first. I'm one ugly house mom
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: monterey on December 02, 2016, 12:52:00 PM
Very sorry to hear of your wife's accident.  Take good care of her.

I noticed that the instructions fuse of the VHT and duplicator are identical.  Makes me that the primary difference might be the label.   :confused:  

Ben, they both indicate that it takes seven days to cure.  Could that effect your test?
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: on December 02, 2016, 04:12:00 PM
Damn...  Sorry to hear...  I hope she mends quickly...
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: BenBow on December 02, 2016, 05:54:00 PM
She's doing well and I'm gaining an appreciation for all she does.
Monterey I'll let them cure over night an beat on them then wait a week and try again to see if there's a difference. I also heard someone say that they used the duplicolor wheel SEALER so I'll look for that.
So far I took a piece of locust and sanded the edge grain to 220 grit. I then marked off 2" wide areas and applied superglue, 5 min epoxy, Heilman's gloss, Rustolium flat camo, Rustolium dead flat clear, wipe on poly, and kyrlon blue primer/finish then put the board in the hot box to dry. Once dry I lightly sanded them all with 320 grit and put a coat of both the VHT and the duplicolor. Then into the hot box for 10 minuets and recoat. I repeated that 3 times and now it will set overnight is the hot box. Tomorrow I'll get pictures and start a new thread and start beating on the board.
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: scrub-buster on December 02, 2016, 10:07:00 PM
Thanks for doing all of this research BenBow.  Take good care of your wife.  The testing can wait.
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 03, 2016, 05:58:00 AM
Sorry to hear that, Ben. Hope she heals quickly.
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: BenBow on December 03, 2016, 09:20:00 AM
Thanks guys. Actually she's getting tired of me constantly checking on her. Yesterday she said I seem to always be moving so I jumped on that and told her now that you're watching you can see just how much I've been doing all these years.  ;)
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: kennym on December 03, 2016, 11:12:00 AM
Hope she heals up quick Galen!!
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: Mike Mecredy on January 20, 2017, 03:24:00 PM
I've been using this VHT Benbow mentioned for a few weeks, and it's amazing.
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: jess stuart on January 20, 2017, 04:10:00 PM
Mike what are you using to fill the grain before spraying the VHT?
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: BenBow on January 20, 2017, 11:13:00 PM
Wow Mike, you need to thank Kenny he came up with it.
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: bow loving man on January 24, 2017, 10:24:00 AM
Jess brings up a good question, what are you guys using to fill the grain when you use this product?
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: Crooked Stic on January 24, 2017, 03:54:00 PM
I have had good luck with aqua coat grain filler that is a water based clear filler. On bare wood you need to seal it before the aqua coat. On a really porus wood you may be better to use a thicker finish. The VHT is thin and works good on dymondwood etc. that has no pores.
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: scrub-buster on January 24, 2017, 11:43:00 PM
I used the gloss rim sealer on these  cane arrows.  The first batch that I did I sprayed the sealer very soon after dying the shafts.  It was a dumb move on my part.  The finish had a bubbly look to it in spots.   I had a few fletchings come loose from that first batch.  On the second set of arrows I let the dye dry overnight and the finish came out much smoother.  I didn't have any fletchings come loose on the second batch.  I haven't got to test out the durability yet.

   (http://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv22/Outlawstaves/20170123_172946_zpsvfmodvwk.jpg)  

   (http://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv22/Outlawstaves/20170123_201603_zps5eb6t0sy.jpg)
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: BenBow on January 25, 2017, 08:53:00 AM
Nice arrows Scrub-buster. Neat idea on the points
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: scrub-buster on January 25, 2017, 09:23:00 AM
Thanks.  I didn't come up with the duplex nail idea.  I got it from somebody else but can't remember who.  It was years ago.  They are wrapped with heavy duty outdoor thread and coated in epoxy.  It makes a very solid and durable point.
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: monterey on January 25, 2017, 10:47:00 AM
What glue did you fletch with?
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: scrub-buster on January 25, 2017, 11:00:00 AM
superglue with a brush applicator.
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: macbow on January 25, 2017, 02:24:00 PM
I've been doing all my fletching the last couple of years with superglue.
I get the bigger bottles from Grizzly tools. It has a small tip for easy application.
Also use the accelerators if in a hurry.
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: Bvas on March 03, 2017, 09:28:00 PM
Sooooooo. Any updates? Pictures? Reviews?
Thinking of trying the matte finish on the bow I'm finishing up. Just wandering how many of ya out there tried it and if ya liked it better than whatever you were previously using.

On the couple bows I refinished in the past, I used spar urethane with satin poly as a top coat. I think the spar is a good durable finish and like  the looks of the satin poly. But I'm not happy with the durability of the satin poly. It seems to scratch and chip easily.
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: scrub-buster on March 03, 2017, 11:35:00 PM
I've used it on a couple of bows and I like it.  It's really nice to get 4 coats of finish on a bow in less than 30 minutes.
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: BenBow on March 04, 2017, 10:02:00 AM
It isn't a true matte finish but is super durable once cured
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: Mike Mecredy on March 04, 2017, 04:51:00 PM
I read you post and I've been using this VTH every since.  It's a great sealer, sets up on everything too.
Title: Re: Found a good hard finish
Post by: Robertfishes on March 15, 2017, 04:27:00 PM
ttt