Trad Gang

I had some time to fool around with my forge and decided to make up a couple Grizzly type forged heads with LW bevel.  They haven't been quenched or tempered yet but they are substantial heads.

Now the stupid idea...but you don't know unless you try right.  I slotted a carbon arrow and epoxied/wrapped on the trade point.  I'll shoot it into a 1x12" board to see if the carbon shaft can keep from splitting.  

I should be happy with Grizzly heads just the way they are   :knothead:   Doc

  (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/tippit/Broadheads/ForgedGrizzleyHeads002.jpg)

  (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/tippit/Broadheads/ForgedGrizzleyHeads004.jpg)

  (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/tippit/Broadheads/ForgedGrizzleyHeads005.jpg)

  (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/tippit/Broadheads/ForgedGrizzleyHeads006.jpg)  :pray:

Looks sweet Doc!!  Looking forward to your reports on how it worked!!   :thumbsup:

Trying interesting things is never a stupid idea. Any particular reason for not adding a well-bonded wood IF inside the carbon shaft before slotting it ... and then tapering the 'ferrule profile' to fade smoothly into the blade's face?

Ed
TGMM Family of the Bow

That's why he's a Doc, Doc. He has good ideas.

Oh yeah, you're a Doc too, Doc, and you have good ideas too.

Does this sound like a well known Presidential candidate?

Mix finely chopped carbon fibers with epoxy to fill the end then slot and taper per the DR..

I likes da lQQk of that arrow.
Just a thought, could ya slot it with the insert installed to give alil reinforcement? Would it be worth it?

Doc,

Do another one with an insert epoxied in first, and then slot it to epoxy and haft the head inside.  MUCH STRONGER.  I bet it splits pretty dramatically that way.  I want video!!!!

LOL!!!

that will open like a banana

great idea Jeff,I will be looking foward to seeing one in person soon.bowdoc

wear your safety glasses.

Or at least foot the shaft with an aluminum piece.

Doc,

I second using an insert, even better an aluminum "plug", and footing it after you mount the broadhead (before fletching).

Yup, I vote for putting the insert in the carbon shaft first,  making a narrow channel with a dremel cutoff tool, insert your forged head and then slather on the epoxy and wrap it up with artificial sinew.

Doc, why don't ya foot it with aluminum, ya could slot the footing as well and use 24 hour epoxy on it. I believe it would hold up than. Shawn

I thought about all those ideas as this system works really well.  Just trying to avoid the narrow tang that goes into the insert even though this system has not failed for me..

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/tippit/Broadheads/ForgedTradePoints11.jpg)

What I was going to due was put a small plug into the shaft to keep the epoxy from running down the entire shaft.  Then the end should become an entire epoxy mass with tang of arrow head within...kinda like the HIT system on Axis arrows.  Finally the wrap around the shaft should give it a lot of strength.  

It is supposed to rain all day tomorrow and my Grizzly look-a-likes are now cooking in the oven to be tempered.  Looks like Sunday is launch day  :D    Heck what fun would it be if you just screwed a perfect Grizzly into your perfect carbon shaft.  I'm not striving for perfection as it's already there!  I'm just trying to keep myself entertained while my wife is down South for the winter...Doc

Cut a slot into a field point glue the head into it and just screw it on.

Tippit here is something I did to shoot Knapped heads with a carbon arrow. Its pretty easy to do. I just slotted a long alluminum adaptor with my bandsaw epoxied them in and then sinewed the heads just for looks.

 (http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n217/reviveourhomes/Knapped%20Stuff/Dscn2866.jpg)

I see Vermonster suggested that and I am sure that is the way to go you could try with or without the insert. Shawn

I've done that too.  But this is was so Great about Trad Gang.  You post something and even if it's crazy, you get a Ton of Ideas to prefect it.  Thanks...Doc

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/tippit/Broadheads/Screw-onForgedBroadhead2.jpg)

Yeah we are all a little off kilter! HAHAHA

Sheesh.... Take a beautiful head like that and see if you can smash it into a board??   :saywhat:   :confused:  

Sounds like you have a little kid inside trying to get out  :p

Looks neat to me. I think I'd foot the shaft after the head is installed that should make it bullet proof.

Whip:   :thumbsup:

Good luck bud

Trial Time  :scared:  

Last night I finished the arrow.  I use a gel super glue that I use on my knife handles.  It bonds so well to metal that I've had to completely grind off a handle down to steel if I want to remove it.  Where as 2 ton epoxy will just pop off with a little heat.  So I glued in a 2 1/2" section of  1/4 " hard wood dowel (Dr Asby's suggestion).  I wanted this to be as simple as possible so I didn't go with a metal insert.  Re-slotted the shaft with my band saw to accept tang of the  Grizzly Look-a-Like and glued that in.  Next I wrapped the slotted area with 6-0 Kevlar fly tying thread...did I mention I love to tie flies  :)   Finally coating everything with gel super glue.  It sounds like a lot of work but it was very easy and fast.

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/tippit/Broadheads/ForgedGrizzleyHeads008.jpg)

I got a break in the weather this morning so with the help of little Bucky...oops gotta let the dogs in.  Be right back...Doc

And then?

Pretty neat Doc, looking forward to seeing the results.


David

This is like a Hitchkock movie! He's just left us hanging!

Ed

Got dogs in & fresh cup of coffee.  Back to "little Bucky"

I stood about 10 yards to shoot Foam Bucky wanting to be close enough for a good shot but Not Too Close for flying shrapnel  :eek:  Everything went well with foam as I had expected.

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/tippit/Broadheads/ForgedGrizzleyHeads.jpg)  

Now crunch time, I put a true 1" thick rough cut board up with the help of Bucky and got good penetration with everything intact  :goldtooth:  It split the board.

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/tippit/Broadheads/ForgedGrizzleyHeads010.jpg)

The second shot happened to hit a Knot!  After I cut and chiseled the head out.  Everything was still intact  :eek:  You can see the LW bevel starting to rotate away from the split in the board.  Pretty impressive Dr Ashby!

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/tippit/Broadheads/ForgedGrizzleyHeads011.jpg)

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/tippit/Broadheads/ForgedGrizzleyHeads014.jpg)

I did four shots total and there was no ill effects to the shaft or the wrapped area.  The forged Grizzly didn't have a nick, tip curl, or bend.  

I was pleasantly surprised and happy to have another set up for the spring bear hunt...Doc

Too cool Doc.

:bigsmyl:    :clapper:

The inginuity of the guys on here never ceases to amaze me!!!!!!!! Very nice Doc.

Impressive! Bears better watch out.

Ed
TGMM Family of the Bow

Doc, what's the arrow weight and you're draw weight on those shots?

Ed
TGMM Family of the Bow

I forgot to say that the final weight of the Grizzly Look-a-Like came in at 240 gr.  I normally shoot that same weight...with a 125gr broadhead+100gr steel insert+25gr aluminum insert.  Doc

Doc-
I began shooting all my whitetails THROUGH the shoulder blades when in a treestand or on the ground simply because of that characteristic.

It guarantees they will drop down and begin bulldozing the forest floor with their back legs moving and their brisket pushing leaves...you don't really need a blood trail because they usually fall in sight!!!

It won't be long Doc and we will get to see what she will really do......See ya soon,bowdoc

Dr Ashby,  We were thinking the same thing  :)  I was shooting a Griffin longbow and pulling around 50#.  I tried a fifth shot on a finished piece of pine board with straight grain.  It blew right through it.

Uh Oh, now you gone and done it Ray! I posted something about taking deliberate scapula shots on deer and other light game, about four years ago. I took incredable flack, and got beat all about the head. Virtually everyone said it was IMPOSSIBLY to be sure of penetration on a scapula hit. Tried to explain that it takes the right arrow setup, but was summarily told NO ARROW can reliably penetrate bone.  :goldtooth:  

Ed
TGMM Family of the Bow

ttt

Very nice Doc! Someday soon I hope to have some time to tinker around and build cool stuff. Really enjoyed this one.

But.. But... with the two blade design- I see NO sap trail.   :p

Way to go men! I'd like to see what happens to those heads Shot in a wood arrow? Good looking heads.

Very impressive Doc!Wonder how it'd hold up to Falk's dreaded "Opel Test"?  :confused:

Tippit, do you have a side profile view of the hafted head?  I was wondering about the transition from metal blade to wood insert.  Seems like the smoother/tapered it is, the better the penetration...  Great experiments!

I thought the whole purpose of tweaking and setting up for maximum penetration was to have "back-up" for those shots that TURNED OUT less then perfect?

I am really surprised that anyone would advocate deliberately shooting for the most difficult to penetrate area covering the vitals regardless of equipment. What happened to wait for the good shot that is taught as the basis for becoming a good bowhunter in the bowhunter education course?

JMOP, but I'm shooting for the ribcage over the lungs to maximize my success rate.

Steve

I musta missed something Steve. What's your point. He made a homemade broadhead and hafted it to a carbon arrow, shot it thru a board to see if the haft would hold up.

Ray ... Ray ... Wake up Ray. It's staring to rain.

Ed
TGMM Family of the Bow

Very cool Doc.  Wish I had the time and know how to build stuff like that.  Keep it coming!

Kenny - I was not commenting on Tippets work.
Sorry if that was implied.

Steve

QuoteOriginally posted by SteveB:
I thought the whole purpose of tweaking and setting up for maximum penetration was to have "back-up" for those shots that TURNED OUT less then perfect?

I am really surprised that anyone would advocate deliberately shooting for the most difficult to penetrate area covering the vitals regardless of equipment. What happened to wait for the good shot that is taught as the basis for becoming a good bowhunter in the bowhunter education course?

JMOP, but I'm shooting for the ribcage over the lungs to maximize my success rate.

Steve

because if you miss high then you hit spine or miss the deer entirely, if you miss back you still get lungs. if you mis low you get heart. if you miss forward you still get the goodies.

on a back of the lungs shot, "behind the shoulder" you take away a direction you can miss, if you miss back you hit guts.

it is almost impossible to shoot to far forward, you have a long way to go shooting forward before you miss the deer.

i do almost all of my hunting from the ground, no trees in south texas, and i am going to start aiming above the knuckle, non of the behind the should crap. i have had to many bad experinces aiming for the back third of the vitals. Deer do spin toward you and do jump forward

SteveB,
I don't profess to know everything, but I think what Ray is talking about is precisely what Dr Ed set out to establish in the first place...a maximum-performance arrow that performs well under a variety of conditions....
A .30-06 solid through the lungs will be 99% fatal to a buff, but a .470 Nitro Express allows the hunter to break the shoulder and anchor the beast.
When using a heavy, Extreme FOC arrow, a skilled archer can utilize the performance of their chosen "projectile" to do the same, albeit on a lighter-boned animal such as a deer.  I don't mean to put words into Ray's mouth, but I suspect his shot placement is different on heavier-boned game...
(up goes the umbrella....)

Again, apologies in advance if I'm speaking out of turn.....

Ray, you been talking to folks?

Ed
TGMM Family of the Bow

BTW, I'm not saying I'm skilled enough to pull off what Ray is describing on purpose...but with a well-performing set-up, if that is where the shot goes, I'm covered....

fatman

Tippit - I do admire your work.
I will not add anything else to derail this thread.
Good luck with the bear hunt.

Steve

I like the shoulder shot on deer. As Ray said 6-8"s of penetration, no need for a blood trail. Looks sweet doc. Shawn

Woody,  That is the only thing I will change on my next haft arrow...trim the end of the shaft more flush to the broadhead for a smoother transition.  Since you have one of my forged heads epoxied into a carbon insert, I figured you would be the one to pick that up  :)  

Dr Asby's suggestion of using a wood plug insert gives more stability and strength to the slotted carbon.  It also would allow a much smoother shaping of the shaft to the head.  

I wasn't sure if it would hold up to begin with...But it appears to be even better than an aluminum insert.  The wrap seems to do the same job that footing carbons with a section of aluminum shaft does.  Thanks for everyone's support and help.  

After watching Woody haft one of his Beautiful Knapped Heads to a shaft, that's when I started wondering if I could do the same thing with carbon.  As long as you can keep the carbon shaft from splitting, it is a pretty indestructible arrow.  Plus it is really easy and inexpensive to do...as long as you can get forged heads  :)   Heck it's easier finding steel than Woody's flint...oops I forgot he uses beer bottles too!  

Lastly...Maybe not stupid just different  :rolleyes:  Doc

My bad Steve, I was missing something.

Doc, be sure to post an update after the bear bites the dust! If you have an extra one of these arrows, how about a bear scapula test shot? I'm interested in how your hafting holds up. I'm thinking it will do pretty well.

Ed
TGMM Family of the Bow

Dr Ashby,  I know there will be bear scapula in camp...hopefully mine!  I believe this is the eighteenth year Tom Phillips has run some type of bear camp...2nd All Traditional with 2 weeks this year.  Anyway the point I'm getting to is in all those years Every Hunter has had an opportunity to take a bear.  Maybe not the one they wanted but at least had the chance.  Pretty impressive statistic...hopefully percentage will hold up.  Therefore you will have another test!  Thanks for your help...Jeff

Bear scapula top/Deer scapula bottom

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/tippit/Bear%20Hunt/BearScapula2.jpg)

Thanks Doc. Really looking forward to seeing how it goes!

Ed
TGMM Family of the Bow

Awwwww yeah! Tippit, looks like we got some sperimentin to do at Quebec Quest II!

So, how does a feller go about getting one of these dreaded "pine pulverisers"? I have some unruly cedars that need to be taken out.  :saywhat:

jeff...not to derail the main purpose if the thread...but what are you useing to mark your mark...etch? stamp?  chisel?  just wonderin...

JC, I'll have some made up.  Thought Eric might like to try one with his home made arrows too.

hickstick, I stamp it hot.

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/tippit/TouchMark6.jpg)

Hey Jeff I think Eric's arrows are made of wood......Just kidding,see ya real soon.bowdoc

Tippit - I'm not much of a steel man.  Would 4130 be too hard or soft for making a blade like that?  Your experiment interests me as I rarely lose broadheads anymore and making up a half dozen welded on to those steel inserts might last me a while.  (I would want screw ins.) Any  idea if they would gas weld, maybe you have done it? I have welded a lot of 4130 and have some, but not much else.

Steve

Steve, I'm sure welding would work.  What you have to do once they are finished is:
1. Quench them to harden

2. Temper they to get an edge that is soft enough to sharpen but hard enough to keep the edge.

Go over to the Hunting Knife forum and ask about the properties of 4130 steel.  Mine are made from 1080 high carbon steel and I tempered them a little softer than I'd usually do for a knife...thus easier to sharpen and re-touch the blade.  With a knife I'm looking to keep the edge as long as possible but with a broadhead it's a one time use before re-sharpening.  Hopefully that makes sense    Doc

Back to Woody's question about side profile of the shaft attachment to the broadhead.

This is the head for the test:

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/tippit/Broadheads/ForgedGrizzleyHeads008.jpg)

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/tippit/Broadheads/ForgedGrizzly002.jpg)

This morning I re-ground the attachment area.  I think this will help quite a bit with penetration...Doc

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/tippit/Broadheads/ForgedGrizzly003.jpg)

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/tippit/Broadheads/ForgedGrizzly004.jpg)

W (http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/bowdocsarchery/tb001.jpg)hat about this type broadhead for a wood arrow Jeff...... 1941 T.B.Chandler

bowdoc, That's almost a Grizzly right there!  Compare the profile with my knock-off Grizzly, a Grizzly, and T.B. Chandler...very close.  Guess there ain't anything new to invent!  If you look real close T.B. even has a single bevel on his  :bigsmyl:  Doc

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/tippit/Broadheads/ForgedGrizzleyHeads002.jpg)

I like the tie on bumps on the Chandler tine. Looks like they extend past the shaft diameter. May have to try some of these from old circular saw blades.

Yes it was a great head but that TB was nothing in comparison to your head.Those notches were a bit larger then the shaft.Once wrapped they seemed to hold OK,but were known for flipping sideways sometimes as the wrapping would break on inpact...I like yours way better....Yes I believe Chandler shipped them double egde single or you put your own edge on. see ya real soon..bowdoc

Shaun,  After seeing what epoxy did to hold in Woody's points especially when he was trying to remove a point from a broken shaft.  I think everything else is window dressing.  The halfing wrap on the carbon is more to give it lateral strength.  But I'd bet epoxy on wood shafts would be as strong without the wrap.  JMO...Jeff

I agree with Jeff some good epoxy works probley better then anything else.Without hijacking Jeff's thread,here is a pic of a ferrule I glued to a broadhead I made...I used gel super glue on it.This head had taken 50 shots into a 3/4" treated plywood....and will be heading for Que'bec this spring..The epoxys and super bonder are pretty strong for 10-12 shots at least (http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/bowdocsarchery/sg001.jpg).....bowdoc

Great read guys! Love those trade points myself! Been making and using 'em for ten years now. Great thing about making 'em yourself is that you choose their final weight.

I use a tangless system with epoxy to secure my heads. Very satisfied with their results over the years. -ART B

As per PM, here it is. ttt

Ed
TGMM Family of the Bow

Art B,

How about you post some pics of your trade points.  By far the best I've seen.

Stan

Very Nice, Doc!  :thumbsup:  

You guys with all that talent sure are impressive!  :clapper:  

LD

Here's a few unfinished and finished trade points for you Stan. Some foreshafted cane and Zebra wood footed sourwood shoot arrows.-ART B

 (http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y232/artcher1/hade-madebowsandarrows017.jpg)

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y232/artcher1/hade-madebowsandarrows044.jpg)

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y232/artcher1/hade-madebowsandarrows019.jpg)

Drop dead gorgeous, Art. You've achieved great 'ferrule profile'. Is that an epoxy you've used to attach them? Looks like it makes a really smooth transition into the blade-face. Could you tell me the FOC of both arrows?
 :clapper:  

Ed
TGMM Family of the Bow

Thanks Dr Ashby! Yes, those are attached using some Devcon 2-ton epoxy that you can buy at any Wal-mart. Normally those types of arrows have around 16% FOC and for cane arrows I can achieve just a tad more. Goin' to do better though!  :) .-ART B

Cool! I would also second the idea of footing with aluminum an inch or two of 2117 works on Gold tip xt 35-55. Don't know what size on heavy spined carbons. Also could use brass inserts with slow dry epoxy to shore thing up.
Dudester

Thank you, Art. I've never tried Devcon 2-ton. Will have to see if I can get any in Oz. Can't take any back on the plane and, as wierd as it seems, the Aussies don't have Wal-Mart yet!

When are you planning to kill something big with those? GET PHOTOS for show and tell, PLEASE!!

Ed
TGMM Family of the Bow

Very nice work,really beautiful...bowdoc

Thank you, Art.  Those are absolutely beautiful.

Stan

Those are some nice looking heads guys! Well done!  ;)   :thumbsup:

Thanks guys, glad you like 'em!

Oh, I didn't make those for my own use Dr. Ashby, they're awful long for my little ol' short 24" draw length, LOL! Yeah, I got pics, but don't want to hi-jack this thread anymore then I already have. Can send you some private mail if you like.-ART B

Great!  :knothead:    I guess I'll be building my own broad heads now.  :help:    Thanks Tippit and Art for setting the bar so high   :rolleyes:  and for getting the juices flowing.  Now where did I put those old saw blades....

-Brett

P.S.  Really, thanks guys for posting your excellent work.  It is both awe inspiring and thought provoking.

oops. I'm sorry,I have just looked back in on this thread, and it appears I hijacked Tippit's thread a little with my statement about shooting scapulas.

Sorry Doc.

SteveB,
I hunt in Georgia. Deer in GA when they get big, like say a 6 year old buck, weigh 130 -150 lbs. I shoot LOTS OF DOES, which average 90 lbs- we get 12 tags a year- I never shoot bucks unless they are monsters (for us) and those I do not shoot in the scapula.

My context is I hunt in an urban deer hunting program in metro Atlanta that I started in 1999, and in South Carolina where I hunt pigs that get to 450 and 500 lbs with shields 2 and 3 inches thick, but the deer may get to 100 lbs. Not your average bowhunter in that I take probably 50 hogs a year, and between 10 and 20 deer a year (South Carolina is no limit hunting)and guide others to almost that many kills.

In Atlanta we have 45 to 50 hunters in our program, and operate inside housing developments, golf courses, etc...where stealth, as much as taking deer is generally required by the landowner. They don't want anyone to know we are doing the job.

So deer running around with arrows in them is a no-no. Most of our hunters are compounders- I do not have any of them taking shots as I do.

My setup is the same as it has been the last 25 years, since I read the Natal Study Ed did back in the mid eighties I think...heavy recurves and longbows shooting heavy arrows...tipped wih grizzly 190 and grizzly 160 heads. total arrow weight is well over 10 grains per lb of draw...example....one bow is 64 lbs at 28, FF string recurve...and arrows are 725 grains. In carbons nearly half the weight is in the tip end...they're high FOC

I shoot through the scapula, NOT the shoulder knuckle. If I am on the ground I don't take that shot, because there's too great a chance you wouldn't get lungs- if in a treestand, obviously you can only shoot through ONE scapula but that is my target..I don't shoot out to 40 yards and beyond like you see on TV...I get the deer in close...10 yards from the tree or less- and if you want a LOW exit wound its one of the best places to hit a deer because the arrow will exit very low. Low equals good bloodtrails, and if the deer is broadside I have a decent chance of hitting the OPPOSITE leg bone,which is my 'point of aim' for the exit...I don't actually aim AT the scapula..I am through it to the point I want my arrow to LEAVE the animal..and that is the offside leg bone and I often break that as well.

If you are using replaceable blade broadheads, or don't know how to sharpen a broadhead, or use double bevel heads for that matter, you probably ought not to try what I do. As a matter of fact, I don't recommend this to anyone- I'm just telling you what I do.

Ray - that context certainley puts a different look to it and clears a lot of issues.
Thanks
Steve

Art B, Your heads look very nice!  Tell me more about your trade points.

What type of steel?
Are they quenched & tempered?
What is the weight?
How do the points hold up shot into something hard...bending or breaking of point?

Ray, No apology needed my friend.  This is great getting all this community information!  Doc

Cool Thread!

One old broadhead I always thought was a good idea.The Bear Archery Giant.It was a massive huge bear razorhead designed by Fred and handed out to Glenn,Dick and some other guy's up on the delta(they are rare).Whats interesting about the giant though was Fred designed the blade to be thicker at the tip.I believe somewhere around .052 on the tip and .030 at the back.All weight foward on the blade itself.I tried makeing a few blades myself that are tapperd from .050-.030 Starrett HS-C the tips are almost bomb proof and are not heat treated.Wish I had more time to work on them,but here's some unfinished models...bowdoc (http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/bowdocsarchery/head001.jpg)

I like to make my trades from the old "fire tooth" circular saw blades when I can find 'em Tippit. Or any of the older blades that have high quality steel. A lot of the blades today don't have any carbon content so watch out for those.

I don't do any heating or tempering because I take my time and cut 'em out with a hacksaw. I know what some of you all are thinking ,man, that's a lot of work! Well, not really. With the right hacksaw blade it's pretty straight forth. Go to a NAPA Auto store and ask for their best Bi-metal hacksaw blade (white coating). They have the only hacksaw blades that I've found that will even touch these good circular saw blades.

One of the reasons I use the tangless system is that I can get an overall larger blade with the same weight vs the tanged system. Believe me, my arrows have been shot into rock, trees, boards, mine belts and game. Yes, a couple were damaged, but not beyond repair. Come to think of it, both of those heads had tangs and bent at the shoulders (I now use a longer ferrule to prevent this).

This tangless system I use is fairly simple as well. I allow an additional 1 1/2" to the shaft for the ferrule and then point taper with my hand tool set to the depth of 1". Then I kerf the point taper that 1" to receive the blade's body and then groove the sides (1/32" deep) of the shaft for the length of 1/2" for the sides of the notch to slide into. This prevents any back and forth or lateral movement. Then I add my thread wrap behind the blade before epoxing.

Normal range of weight ranges from about 130-150gr for my heads. Epoxy and footing can add another 50 or so grains. -ART B

ttt for some awesome home made broadheads