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Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: Carpdaddy on November 16, 2015, 06:45:00 PM

Title: Not what I wanted or expected, finished bow pics
Post by: Carpdaddy on November 16, 2015, 06:45:00 PM

Know that feeling you get when you take a new one out of the box, get your limb profiles cut out, and finally get to remove the tape and see your veneers under the clear glass? Well this time it wasn't nice to say the least. Let me begin by saying that I am not new to building bows, nor am I a professional bowyer, I only build for myself or friends and family. I have many bows behind me, and this is a first for this. I have used both the hose and band method through the years, this one I tinkered with the form design and this is the second bow off it. I was using bands on this one with clamps only on the riser as I usually do.
   (http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad238/tcj59/Next%20bow/CAD4B150-6AC4-4EB2-91B2-F1FAB2C1393A_zpsrclihhjt.jpg) (http://s939.photobucket.com/user/tcj59/media/Next%20bow/CAD4B150-6AC4-4EB2-91B2-F1FAB2C1393A_zpsrclihhjt.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Not what I wanted or expected, finished bow pics
Post by: Carpdaddy on November 16, 2015, 06:49:00 PM

To the point. I removed the tape from the belly side and this is what I found...
  (http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad238/tcj59/Next%20bow/594C36BE-45AB-4412-9772-768FAE70D98A_zps97hm7uae.jpg) (http://s939.photobucket.com/user/tcj59/media/Next%20bow/594C36BE-45AB-4412-9772-768FAE70D98A_zps97hm7uae.jpg.html)
The glass was cracked from riser fade to tip, only on this limb.
  (http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad238/tcj59/Next%20bow/3139C241-B440-4971-85DF-B1481300FE86_zpsfgnevb01.jpg) (http://s939.photobucket.com/user/tcj59/media/Next%20bow/3139C241-B440-4971-85DF-B1481300FE86_zpsfgnevb01.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Not what I wanted or expected, finished bow pics
Post by: Carpdaddy on November 16, 2015, 06:52:00 PM

My only thought is that maybe I strapped the bands down to tight, sure would appreciate some input here. I remember someone on here way back posting something on here that they used over the aluminum strip that was rounded to protect the limbs, guess I should have paid more attention.
Thanks

Title: Re: Not what I wanted or expected, finished bow pics
Post by: jess stuart on November 16, 2015, 07:26:00 PM

I have used rubber many times but, wrap completely around the form.  I add a pressure strip centered over the limbs, it is usually about a 1/2" less in width than the glass.  The idea is to spread the pressure evenly across the width of the limb.  I can't tell from your picture is you have one or not.  
Sure isn't fun to find something like that,  I feel really bad for you.

Title: Re: Not what I wanted or expected, finished bow pics
Post by: kennym on November 16, 2015, 07:52:00 PM

Yes you need something to put pressure down centerline of limbs, bands will put nearly all the pressure on edges,with glue holding the center up it could crack it. Opposite for an air hose form, need something to hold the edges down as the hose is down the center...

Somebody user a pc of 12-2 wiring, sounded great to me as it would conform to limb profile easily.

Title: Re: Not what I wanted or expected, finished bow pics
Post by: bamboo on November 16, 2015, 07:57:00 PM

fill it with 420--before any sanding--keep going with it--probably be fine--crap happens!!

Title: Re: Not what I wanted or expected, finished bow pics
Post by: Carpdaddy on November 16, 2015, 08:49:00 PM

I do have some 420 on hand but not sure if it will get in the crack, worth a try. Here is what I came to realize after posting about the pressure strip and looking back, forgot the top strip!! Man that hurts. It was getting up into the wee morning hours and I was tired when I glued it up. A costly mistake! Since that was the last of my glass and core material I may just finish it up for practice if nothing else. It never hit me until I mentioned the aluminum strip in one of my first post, I feel so sharp.
Thanks for your input guys, I might as well laugh as cry. Maybe make one of them split limb bows like the wheelie guys.

Title: Re: Not what I wanted or expected, finished bow pics
Post by: Carpdaddy on November 16, 2015, 09:32:00 PM

Yep; I'm that brain dead, pictures don't lie! Went back and looked through some pictures and there in my hot box near center on the left lays my pressure strips! Man this getting old is tuff!
  (http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad238/tcj59/Next%20bow/13D560B8-E6FC-471E-9A46-1FA5CFBBEC95_zpsbtnglp7g.jpg) (http://s939.photobucket.com/user/tcj59/media/Next%20bow/13D560B8-E6FC-471E-9A46-1FA5CFBBEC95_zpsbtnglp7g.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Not what I wanted or expected, finished bow pics
Post by: Carpdaddy on November 16, 2015, 09:37:00 PM

So now what to do, hang it up as a reminder of what not to do or try the 420? If so would I tape on both sides of the crack or would that stuff just make the tape near impossible to remove?

Title: Re: Not what I wanted or expected, finished bow pics
Post by: T Folts on November 17, 2015, 07:06:00 AM

I know a bowyer that says to peel the glass off and put another on it. I did it once and it worked. Just use a knife at the tip and get the glass started and it will peel off.
T.

Title: Re: Not what I wanted or expected, finished bow pics
Post by: 7 Lakes on November 17, 2015, 10:43:00 AM

T-Folts, I'd like to see that done and/or get more information.  I didn't think it possible with EA-40.

Title: Re: Not what I wanted or expected, finished bow pics
Post by: Carpdaddy on November 18, 2015, 06:32:00 AM

 (http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad238/tcj59/Next%20bow/3564015D-8DDC-4A64-AF76-0A089B45E364_zpsrw2wy4qn.jpg) (http://s939.photobucket.com/user/tcj59/media/Next%20bow/3564015D-8DDC-4A64-AF76-0A089B45E364_zpsrw2wy4qn.jpg.html)
Either I'm brave or just dumb, bow is strung! Tried the 420, now if one of you want to swing by and draw it.

Title: Re: Not what I wanted or expected, finished bow pics
Post by: cunruhshoot on November 18, 2015, 10:23:00 AM

I had a glass issue on one of my past bows and followed the advise given here to use a heat gun and carefully remove the glass and re-glue a new piece down. It worked out perfect and had no issues. I had a couple slivers of the veneer come up while removing the glass because I was going to fast. But I filled the spots, sanded them smooth and use black glass rather than clear.

Title: Re: Not what I wanted or expected, finished bow pics
Post by: Carpdaddy on November 18, 2015, 10:55:00 AM

I have done some weird things through the years, sometimes they work and at other times not so well. Many years ago while learning I build one that came out just over 100 lbs. I laid it on a bandsaw, picked the lam I wanted to saw, and cut the entire bow lengthwise. Thinned it down, glued it back up, and hunted with it for a long time after. Another time while at Ky Tradfest someone had a belly lam delaminate on the lower limb, instead of letting him throw it away I brought it home, removed lower limb belly glass, and replaced it. Didn't work out as one limb was weaker than the other even though I was sure they were the same thickness. Not sure what to do exactly on this one but since it's all I have to tinker with right now so I will continue and learn from the experience. I will update you all also so that others may learn from my mistakes.

Title: Re: Not what I wanted or expected, finished bow pics
Post by: Carpdaddy on November 18, 2015, 03:21:00 PM

Here's what to do; let a friend who comes by at times to see what is in progress draw the bow. Lol
  (http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad238/tcj59/Next%20bow/4D69F642-0880-471F-B308-1016B3D77607_zpssfy0pkjt.jpg) (http://s939.photobucket.com/user/tcj59/media/Next%20bow/4D69F642-0880-471F-B308-1016B3D77607_zpssfy0pkjt.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Not what I wanted or expected, finished bow pics
Post by: Carpdaddy on November 18, 2015, 08:05:00 PM

I think I may be getting too absent minded for this, here's a picture of where I almost cut my riser out on the wrong side! Glad I stopped to double check myself due to the other strange things I've been doing lately.
  (http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad238/tcj59/Next%20bow/136EEE5B-FDEF-4669-B7B5-CD7CE16ED639_zpsue3ijzea.jpg) (http://s939.photobucket.com/user/tcj59/media/Next%20bow/136EEE5B-FDEF-4669-B7B5-CD7CE16ED639_zpsue3ijzea.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Not what I wanted or expected, finished bow pics
Post by: Carpdaddy on November 20, 2015, 12:50:00 PM

Made a string for it and shot it several times with no strange sounds so far. Still ugly seeing the crack down the bottom belly side lam but so far so good. Crack was filled with 420 and I even put a piece of thin glass on the belly side while I was putting the phenolic tips on the back. Just because the crack runs all the way out the tip.
  (http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad238/tcj59/Next%20bow/9F946B42-FE9C-4A8A-A43A-82E2FC3EB65B_zpsupfd3ude.jpg) (http://s939.photobucket.com/user/tcj59/media/Next%20bow/9F946B42-FE9C-4A8A-A43A-82E2FC3EB65B_zpsupfd3ude.jpg.html)
  (http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad238/tcj59/Next%20bow/729BB9C9-096E-4873-903D-44915CB9B0E3_zpsqfdrryz2.jpg) (http://s939.photobucket.com/user/tcj59/media/Next%20bow/729BB9C9-096E-4873-903D-44915CB9B0E3_zpsqfdrryz2.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Not what I wanted or expected, finished bow pics
Post by: Carpdaddy on November 20, 2015, 12:54:00 PM

Should have been more clear, put thin glass on the tips of the belly side, not the entire limb. You can see the black tips in the first picture above.

Title: Re: Not what I wanted or expected, finished bow pics
Post by: kennym on November 20, 2015, 02:18:00 PM

I'm bettin she will be ok!

Title: Re: Not what I wanted or expected, finished bow pics
Post by: Carpdaddy on November 20, 2015, 03:13:00 PM

Here's what I'm thinking; I busted the glass strapping it down so tightly without the pressure strip. Then into the hot box, the glue still set up under the glass and is holding. The ca glue in the crack didn't hurt either. Named the bow "Dumb Luck".

Title: Re: Not what I wanted or expected, finished bow pics
Post by: Carpdaddy on November 21, 2015, 08:33:00 AM

A few unfinished pics..
  (http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad238/tcj59/Next%20bow/25F31B77-A3B3-4493-8B67-0B0FFFEF0CC8_zpsiq0grtsz.jpg) (http://s939.photobucket.com/user/tcj59/media/Next%20bow/25F31B77-A3B3-4493-8B67-0B0FFFEF0CC8_zpsiq0grtsz.jpg.html)
  (http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad238/tcj59/Next%20bow/0428D56A-93C3-4C8D-8D17-5C65FE29CA50_zpsvpsjxdfx.jpg) (http://s939.photobucket.com/user/tcj59/media/Next%20bow/0428D56A-93C3-4C8D-8D17-5C65FE29CA50_zpsvpsjxdfx.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Not what I wanted or expected, finished bow pics
Post by: Carpdaddy on November 21, 2015, 08:36:00 AM

And there's the ugly culprit.. (No not the dog) the crack down the glass.
  (http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad238/tcj59/Next%20bow/5529DC5E-C997-48D1-9014-6F353F115D6A_zpscm3a5efl.jpg) (http://s939.photobucket.com/user/tcj59/media/Next%20bow/5529DC5E-C997-48D1-9014-6F353F115D6A_zpscm3a5efl.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Not what I wanted or expected, finished bow pics
Post by: Carpdaddy on November 21, 2015, 08:37:00 AM

But I continue forward..
  (http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad238/tcj59/Next%20bow/BFC88517-1028-4BC0-8AB3-16FCBE0619CF_zps5ccluuyb.jpg) (http://s939.photobucket.com/user/tcj59/media/Next%20bow/BFC88517-1028-4BC0-8AB3-16FCBE0619CF_zps5ccluuyb.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Not what I wanted or expected, finished bow pics
Post by: jsweka on November 21, 2015, 08:47:00 AM

Other than the crack, that' a sweet looking bow.  I'm usually not a big fan of that camo actionwood, but what you did with it in that riser is really nice.

Title: Re: Not what I wanted or expected, finished bow pics
Post by: Carpdaddy on November 21, 2015, 02:17:00 PM

Thanks Jsweka, looks like it is shooting and holding okay. It's just those ugly bubbles and crack that will continue to haunt and remind me that hurts. Guess I'll be forced to make another one and you all know how much we hate doing that! Lol

Title: Re: Not what I wanted or expected, finished bow pics
Post by: 8leg-lover on November 21, 2015, 09:45:00 PM

Just curious. What are the specs on that bow? I LOVE the braced profile! I'm getting ready to build my first bow (Ipe backed with bamboo). I'm using Kenny's 62" - 64" R/D plans. Hope I can get it close to that profile. I like your bow, craked glass and all.

Title: Re: Not what I wanted or expected, finished bow pics
Post by: Carpdaddy on November 21, 2015, 10:49:00 PM

The bow is 64" AMO, .375 butt thickness, 14" riser, haven't checked draw weight yet but guess-timate to be 43-44lb at my 27" draw. The form was dreamed up by running a aluminum strip between small nails and seeing what I wanted it to look like, I even cut out a paper riser so I could tell more. Then I posted pictures on here and ask for input from the gang. Sorry I don't remember the name of that thread. Kenny M shared some helpful info back then as he usually does. This is only my second bow from that form and I changed it a bit before this one. Felt my riser went too far forward so I glued about 1/4th inch wood down in that section. May have some pictures of that.

Title: Re: Not what I wanted or expected, finished bow pics
Post by: Carpdaddy on November 21, 2015, 10:51:00 PM

Here's where I was playing around with the form.
  (http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad238/tcj59/Kirk%20bow/IMG_372015_203009_zps888bf870.jpg) (http://s939.photobucket.com/user/tcj59/media/Kirk%20bow/IMG_372015_203009_zps888bf870.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Not what I wanted or expected, finished bow pics
Post by: Carpdaddy on November 21, 2015, 10:52:00 PM

This was the first bow off it.
  (http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad238/tcj59/Kirk%20bow/IMG_2982015_000223_zps87c696b8.jpg) (http://s939.photobucket.com/user/tcj59/media/Kirk%20bow/IMG_2982015_000223_zps87c696b8.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Not what I wanted or expected, finished bow pics
Post by: Carpdaddy on November 21, 2015, 10:57:00 PM

Unstrung profile before any work. Other than the string on it where I was checking center.
  (http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad238/tcj59/Next%20bow/F9B73A12-5C30-4739-A119-59AE12314717_zpsr4tuu9kh.jpg) (http://s939.photobucket.com/user/tcj59/media/Next%20bow/F9B73A12-5C30-4739-A119-59AE12314717_zpsr4tuu9kh.jpg.html)
  (http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad238/tcj59/Next%20bow/93E33D4E-1752-42B3-B476-5890E2E448FF_zpst0cb7gps.jpg) (http://s939.photobucket.com/user/tcj59/media/Next%20bow/93E33D4E-1752-42B3-B476-5890E2E448FF_zpst0cb7gps.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Not what I wanted or expected, finished bow pics
Post by: Carpdaddy on November 21, 2015, 10:57:00 PM

Unstrung profile before any work. Other than the string on it where I was checking center.
  (http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad238/tcj59/Next%20bow/F9B73A12-5C30-4739-A119-59AE12314717_zpsr4tuu9kh.jpg) (http://s939.photobucket.com/user/tcj59/media/Next%20bow/F9B73A12-5C30-4739-A119-59AE12314717_zpsr4tuu9kh.jpg.html)
  (http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad238/tcj59/Next%20bow/93E33D4E-1752-42B3-B476-5890E2E448FF_zpst0cb7gps.jpg) (http://s939.photobucket.com/user/tcj59/media/Next%20bow/93E33D4E-1752-42B3-B476-5890E2E448FF_zpst0cb7gps.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Not what I wanted or expected, finished bow pics
Post by: Carpdaddy on November 21, 2015, 10:58:00 PM

Opps; hit that back button again and double posted.

Title: Re: Not what I wanted or expected, finished bow pics
Post by: Carpdaddy on November 21, 2015, 11:00:00 PM

Change made to riser that I mentioned..
  (http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad238/tcj59/Next%20bow/768DC340-EC4D-472C-A0E6-A006A1876F9E_zpsrj38n2gr.jpg) (http://s939.photobucket.com/user/tcj59/media/Next%20bow/768DC340-EC4D-472C-A0E6-A006A1876F9E_zpsrj38n2gr.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Not what I wanted or expected, finished bow pics
Post by: Carpdaddy on November 24, 2015, 07:30:00 PM

Okay; for the final update. Finally got warm enough to spray the bow and give the riser a few coats of Tru-Oil.
  (http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad238/tcj59/Next%20bow/678C20E4-9946-4A92-885A-38DE2DF15783_zpsqhzc6jn0.jpg) (http://s939.photobucket.com/user/tcj59/media/Next%20bow/678C20E4-9946-4A92-885A-38DE2DF15783_zpsqhzc6jn0.jpg.html)
The crack was filled with 420, sanded, then sprayed. If it were not for the bubbles down the center from the strapping mistake it would just look like I got ahold of some of the old glass we were getting last year with the clouds and streaks.
  (http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad238/tcj59/Next%20bow/74291AC0-8204-4A62-B37E-8C6004C5688D_zpsrspxryip.jpg) (http://s939.photobucket.com/user/tcj59/media/Next%20bow/74291AC0-8204-4A62-B37E-8C6004C5688D_zpsrspxryip.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Not what I wanted or expected, finished bow pics
Post by: Carpdaddy on November 24, 2015, 07:34:00 PM

Riser...
  (http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad238/tcj59/Next%20bow/477CE91A-27E0-4A29-8F67-1C19AB74E2B5_zpsjwmo8g6m.jpg) (http://s939.photobucket.com/user/tcj59/media/Next%20bow/477CE91A-27E0-4A29-8F67-1C19AB74E2B5_zpsjwmo8g6m.jpg.html)
  (http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad238/tcj59/Next%20bow/2369EBCF-06DA-46F6-AC6A-903D0882D3BB_zpsbymj3ymd.jpg) (http://s939.photobucket.com/user/tcj59/media/Next%20bow/2369EBCF-06DA-46F6-AC6A-903D0882D3BB_zpsbymj3ymd.jpg.html)
  (http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad238/tcj59/Next%20bow/CF4A962B-B960-4450-B1E1-4E27EC580D2A_zpsnudzrssg.jpg) (http://s939.photobucket.com/user/tcj59/media/Next%20bow/CF4A962B-B960-4450-B1E1-4E27EC580D2A_zpsnudzrssg.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Not what I wanted or expected, finished bow pics
Post by: Carpdaddy on November 24, 2015, 07:39:00 PM

So I'm fired up to fling some arrows now even though I'm not fully finished. I grab a few pieces of Velcro for the shelf, guess at nock point by eyeballing it, and grab a few different spine arrows. Hey; it's been several weeks since I shot so I'm desperate and this is all the motivation I needed..
  (http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad238/tcj59/Next%20bow/2BF63B2D-C5DA-4467-913D-DA2421B102B5_zpscvq7wt69.jpg) (http://s939.photobucket.com/user/tcj59/media/Next%20bow/2BF63B2D-C5DA-4467-913D-DA2421B102B5_zpscvq7wt69.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Not what I wanted or expected, finished bow pics
Post by: Carpdaddy on November 24, 2015, 07:42:00 PM

Shot from 15 to 30 yards and could not tell much difference between the Carbon Express 250's and 150's.
  (http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad238/tcj59/Next%20bow/24817314-25D4-4E8E-90C2-E0AB2E32A266_zps6rsokspn.jpg) (http://s939.photobucket.com/user/tcj59/media/Next%20bow/24817314-25D4-4E8E-90C2-E0AB2E32A266_zps6rsokspn.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Not what I wanted or expected, finished bow pics
Post by: Carpdaddy on November 24, 2015, 07:46:00 PM

Then along came a long legged and long arm friend and tried it out. He is drawing my 30" arrow pretty close and shooting three under unlike me, no problem with that lower limb where the glass cracked..
  (http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad238/tcj59/Next%20bow/BCFA8ED4-93AE-4610-86EE-18DCC8D1D57B_zpsqmpoqhfh.jpg) (http://s939.photobucket.com/user/tcj59/media/Next%20bow/BCFA8ED4-93AE-4610-86EE-18DCC8D1D57B_zpsqmpoqhfh.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Not what I wanted or expected, finished bow pics
Post by: Carpdaddy on November 24, 2015, 07:49:00 PM

One more..
  (http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad238/tcj59/Next%20bow/9134C5D0-A764-4DC5-8210-2B4E9734C314_zps1sjbdfxy.jpg) (http://s939.photobucket.com/user/tcj59/media/Next%20bow/9134C5D0-A764-4DC5-8210-2B4E9734C314_zps1sjbdfxy.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Not what I wanted or expected, finished bow pics
Post by: Carpdaddy on November 24, 2015, 07:58:00 PM

So the moral of the story is... If you begin to get old and forgetful like me and totally mess up, don't give up and toss the bow too quickly. I should mention that I'm not in the bow business, I don't sell bows, I just make them for myself and a few family members or friends. If I were in business I would have had to toss this one, but since it's my toy I continued. Thanks for the kind words and advice.
Carp

Title: Re: Not what I wanted or expected, finished bow pics
Post by: Jomohr84 on November 25, 2015, 02:26:00 AM

Nice save! Bow looks great! Looks like you've got good comany there, too. This is my shop buddy.
  (http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w439/jomohr84/Mobile%20Uploads/20150729_121533.jpg) (http://s1075.photobucket.com/user/jomohr84/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150729_121533.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Not what I wanted or expected, finished bow pics
Post by: Roy from Pa on November 25, 2015, 06:41:00 AM

Very nice.