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Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: Msturm on April 24, 2015, 04:20:00 AM

Title: Dying bamboo with Vinegar & Steel Wool
Post by: Msturm on April 24, 2015, 04:20:00 AM
Has anyone experimented with Vinegar and Steel Wool dye for bamboo backings?  

If so how did it go?  I have a bunch of scrap Bamboo and a BBHickory almost ready.  

I tried some of the dye on a Hickory axe handle and it looks great.


If no one has it I will start with the experimenting in the next couple days after my dye is done "cooking"

Thanks.

Sturm
Title: Re: Dying bamboo with Vinegar & Steel Wool
Post by: Pat B on April 24, 2015, 12:08:00 PM
You will have to remove the rind to get good coverage. Do some tests on scraps first.
Title: Re: Dying bamboo with Vinegar & Steel Wool
Post by: halfseminole on April 24, 2015, 01:04:00 PM
As I understand, it reacts with tannins in the wood, and bamboo has no tannins.  I'd love to be proven wrong-I love the vinegar/steel wool look.
Title: Re: Dying bamboo with Vinegar & Steel Wool
Post by: LittleBen on April 24, 2015, 06:48:00 PM
You can use strong tea to add tannins before applying iron acetate (vinegr and steel wool)
Title: Re: Dying bamboo with Vinegar & Steel Wool
Post by: Troy D. Breeding on April 24, 2015, 07:39:00 PM
Yep, add in a strong tea and it should work. I've used the vinegar and steel wool on furniture and it's outstanding.
Title: Re: Dying bamboo with Vinegar & Steel Wool
Post by: Eric Krewson on April 25, 2015, 09:18:00 AM
I have used agufortis on curly maple, you have to blush it with heat to get the total effect. Vinegar and steel wool is the same in a milder form.

You are supposed to degrease the steel wool to keep any oils out of your mix.
Title: Re: Dying bamboo with Vinegar & Steel Wool
Post by: WESTBROOK on April 26, 2015, 08:27:00 PM
Aquafortis should be neutralized with baking soda before before putting the finish over it or in time it will turn the maple black...same with the vinegar?
Title: Re: Dying bamboo with Vinegar & Steel Wool
Post by: Sam Harper on April 27, 2015, 01:30:00 AM
I've never heard of it.  I sure would like to see some pictures, though.
Title: Re: Dying bamboo with Vinegar & Steel Wool
Post by: Eric Krewson on April 27, 2015, 09:02:00 AM
OK, not bow wood but you can get the idea. Aqufortis makes the grain really "pop".

The wood on the left has been coated with aqufortis and has turned green. The wood on the right has been blushed with a heat gun after having aqufortis applied and let dry. Looks like mud but wait........

      (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/ekrewson/beck%20rifle/halfblushedaqufortis.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ekrewson/media/beck%20rifle/halfblushedaqufortis.jpg.html)

Apply a little finish and "BAM", the curl pops out at you.

     (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/ekrewson/beck%20rifle/buttonecoatoffinish.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ekrewson/media/beck%20rifle/buttonecoatoffinish.jpg.html)

You do have to neutralize the aqufortis after blushing, I use a dilute lye solution.

One more thing; Aqufortis reacts differently on different woods and may turn your wood from tan to black and anything in between, a test strip is a necessity. I did a test on osage and it turned the wood black. If your wood comes out too dark you can rub it back with steel wool to a desired color.

    (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/ekrewson/beck%20rifle/aqufortislye.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ekrewson/media/beck%20rifle/aqufortislye.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Dying bamboo with Vinegar & Steel Wool
Post by: Sam Harper on April 27, 2015, 10:45:00 AM
Pretty cool.
Title: Re: Dying bamboo with Vinegar & Steel Wool
Post by: KenH on April 27, 2015, 11:18:00 AM
As mentioned above, I do not think staining will work on bamboo -- the rind needs to stay, and is pretty impervious to most liquids (one reason for using bamboo).
Title: Re: Dying bamboo with Vinegar & Steel Wool
Post by: George Tsoukalas on April 27, 2015, 03:30:00 PM
Aquafortis is nitric acid. Pretty dangerous stuff.
Jawge
Title: Re: Dying bamboo with Vinegar & Steel Wool
Post by: Eric Krewson on April 27, 2015, 11:18:00 PM
Aqufortis is dilute nitric acid with iron dissolved in it until it won't dissolve any more at which point the acid looses most of its acidity.

The fumes that are given off during this reaction are very bad stuff. This stuff must be made outdoors.

You can buy ready made aqufortis from most M/L builders supply companies.

You can also buy ferric nitrate crystals, mix them with water and get exactly the same reaction on wood without any acid being involved.
Title: Re: Dying bamboo with Vinegar & Steel Wool
Post by: LittleBen on April 29, 2015, 10:31:00 PM
Tempting to try making some using red wine vinegar and steel wool, and see if it keeps any of that redness. Pretty sure red wine also has high tannin content, so maybe that would help the reaction for low tannin woods.
Title: Re: Dying bamboo with Vinegar & Steel Wool
Post by: M60gunner on May 01, 2015, 09:56:00 PM
I stumbled on this thread thinking about coloring bamboo. I am confused, do you remove the enamel (rind) before applying finish? If not, why not? The enamel (rind) is not perfect and could moisture in.
I have used regular wood stain on bamboo fly rods. Of course I removed the enamel during the planing process.
Title: Re: Dying bamboo with Vinegar & Steel Wool
Post by: Msturm on May 06, 2015, 03:35:00 AM
I ended up trying the steel wool and vinegar mixture on a couple pieces of scrap bamboo. It makes no color change. Adding a heavy tea letting it dry and then adding the steel wool and vinegar added a little grey.

I decided to abandon the idea. I used rubbing alcohol and rit cloth dye. It worked amazing. buffed the area between the nodes with 0000 steel wool to lighten it up. Coated it after drying Using Matte Daft. leather grip is a GoodWill purse 2$!!

Here is the finished project:
   (http://i.imgur.com/jkgfz0I.png)

   (http://i.imgur.com/cIiN82V.png)
   (http://i.imgur.com/rvvtjZ2.png)
   (http://i.imgur.com/F3wrPnO.png)

This was a Rudder Bow U-finish long bow 55# at 28in. All rind was removed.
Title: Re: Dying bamboo with Vinegar & Steel Wool
Post by: Roy from Pa on May 06, 2015, 06:53:00 AM
Very nice, I use alcohol aniline dye, works great.

 http://woodworker.com/alcohol-soluble-brt-yellow-golden-oak-aniline-dye-mssu-845-541.asp?search=aniline  dye&searchmode=2
Title: Re: Dying bamboo with Vinegar & Steel Wool
Post by: Eric Krewson on May 06, 2015, 05:58:00 PM
Medium brown leather dye works well.

  (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/ekrewson/Chads%20bow%20repair/finishedbowstain.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ekrewson/media/Chads%20bow%20repair/finishedbowstain.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Dying bamboo with Vinegar & Steel Wool
Post by: bigbob2 on May 07, 2015, 03:52:00 AM
Like the look of them all.
Title: Re: Dying bamboo with Vinegar & Steel Wool
Post by: Troy D. Breeding on May 07, 2015, 11:10:00 AM
Me likes,,, Me likes,,, All of dem!!!!
Title: Re: Dying bamboo with Vinegar & Steel Wool
Post by: Msturm on March 01, 2018, 04:33:00 AM
I'm way late.  These are quotes found in my field notes recently stumbled upon. These are 3 years old.
 It may help someone using the search function. Here are some relevant quotes and thoughts from these 2015 experiments.

 Vinegar and steel wool (vinegaroon)  does not work with raw bamboo, even if you scrape the rind.  I brushed a sample of bamboo: No effect.

Further testing: Brushed bamboo with rind removed in : in *1 Coffee grounds, *2 Yew tea, *3 Red oak shaving tea. (note both teas boiled at a rolling boil with 3 cups of water per 1 cup of packed shavings/scraper curls for 5 minutes and brushed on at what I consider a heavily penetrating/saturating level.) *4 Carlo Rossi Burgundy.

Let dry 24 hours then applied vinegaroon (0000 steel wool one bundle to one cup of white vinegar set for 5 days in Makaha sun)

Results as noted in my field notes from 2015:
*1 Rubbish. Drink coffee don't dye wood with it. Straw color at best. looks like scraped wet bamboo even when dry. doo doo!
*2  Mehhhhhh. Yew makes great fire starters not a pre dye tea. no winner here.
*3  WORKS!   let it dry for a day and hit it with vinegaroon and it turned an elderly woman hair style grey.  Silver fox when unfinished. When finished was a medium flat grey (think wet pine ash).
*4 Uncle Rossi burgundy:  Got similar though less dark result to the oak tea *3.  ( a real light grey, even after finished. Might mix to make a cool grey on grey camo effect)
 
I am sure I had pictures at one point but it has been a long time since this little experiment has taken place. I no longer have that computer. All I have left is my notes. I hope this helps someone.

So... Recommendations: if you want to dye your bamboo backing the hair color of your grandmother's posse remove the rind and soak that bad boy in Carlo Rossi burgundy or Red Oak shaving tea and hit it with vinagroon.  It will darken up when you clear coat it.  

I will probably readdress this experiment now that I live in Alaska and Birch/ Alder/ aspen forests abound and that deep and dark grey may be a legit camo pattern.  Next bamboo backed bow I get will have some form of this stain on it.

Msturm.
Title: Re: Dying bamboo with Vinegar & Steel Wool
Post by: Msturm on March 01, 2018, 05:11:00 AM
Additionally, looking back the tiller on this bow was in need of work. I wish I knew then what I know now.
Title: Re: Dying bamboo with Vinegar & Steel Wool
Post by: Roy from Pa on March 01, 2018, 05:39:00 AM
For boo, you can't beat alcohol based aniline dye. A small bottle of powder lasts for years. I mix it with denatured alcohol. After being applied, you can hit the boo with 0000 steel wool and lighten up any areas you want.
Title: Re: Dying bamboo with Vinegar & Steel Wool
Post by: Eric Krewson on March 01, 2018, 11:06:00 AM
Dang, Roy is right again, he knows his stuff. Leather dye is aniline dye and works the same way.

I have noticed that color of some of my older leather dyed bamboo backed bows has faded a good bit. They are not near as dark as they once were.

The in thing in flintlock gun stock staining is to coat the wood with tannic acid before applying the aqufortis, the results are spectacular.

 (https://i.imgur.com/D9cyvvn.jpg)
Title: Re: Dying bamboo with Vinegar & Steel Wool
Post by: wood carver 2 on March 01, 2018, 04:17:00 PM
Eric, that is the most stunning piece of wood I have ever seen! You don't take that pretty little thing outside in the weather do you?    ;)  
Dave.
Title: Re: Dying bamboo with Vinegar & Steel Wool
Post by: Roy from Pa on March 01, 2018, 05:16:00 PM
Spectacular is right. Wow Eric that is something special...
Title: Re: Dying bamboo with Vinegar & Steel Wool
Post by: Eric Krewson on March 01, 2018, 06:49:00 PM
Not my gun, you should see the rest of it, engraved, inlayed and carved by Jim Kibler, a very expensive gun. The stock is burl maple.

If you google his name and go to his site you can see his work, the best of the best.
Title: Re: Dying bamboo with Vinegar & Steel Wool
Post by: Roy from Pa on March 01, 2018, 09:25:00 PM
Eric, have you ever done that process on your bows?

The in thing in flintlock gun stock staining is to coat the wood with tannic acid before applying the aqufortis, the results are spectacular.

Can you tell me more about that process? I'd love to try that on a bow..
Title: Re: Dying bamboo with Vinegar & Steel Wool
Post by: BMorv on March 01, 2018, 09:41:00 PM
Yeah I was wondering the same thing Roy.  It looks like you have to apply heat to make the iron come out of the acid solution, and I’m not sure how good that would be for glue on a boo laminate.   Seems like most people use aqua fortis on maple.  I just watched like 5 YouTube videos trying to see the process.  
I’ll test it out on boo if you all think it would work. That would be an awesome look on a bow.
Title: Re: Dying bamboo with Vinegar & Steel Wool
Post by: Eric Krewson on March 01, 2018, 11:16:00 PM
Aqufortis turns osage grey black, I tried it.

If someone made a birdseye maple riser, wiped tannic acid on it followed by aqufortis and heat you would have much the same results as the gunstock pictured above.

I don't think the process would do much to bamboo.

I have plenty of aqufortis and ferric nitrate, I will do a test tomorrow on some scrap bamboo to see what happens.