Trad Gang
Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: monterey on August 06, 2014, 03:40:00 PM
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My last clear glass from Gordon was streaky and just not pretty! What other outfits are manufacturing glass lams?
As a secondary question, are there any glass lams wider than 2" available?
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Kustom King sells fiberglass from Bearpaw (a German outfit). I'm not sure who the actual manufacturer is. I've never heard of anyone using it, so I can't speak to its quality. Maybe contact them to find out more info.
Wider than 2" - never heard of any.
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Thanks John.
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I got some Bearpaw glass recently and I was very disappointed with the quality. I ordered 12 pieces and when they arrived, I looked them over and noticed some streaks. I figured I'd glue up a limb just to try it out just to see how bad it was. It was very bad! I've gotten some streaks with Gordon glass before, but nothing like with the Bearpaw...it was terrible. Perhaps I just got a batch from a bad lot, but personally, I can't recommend the Bearpaw glass. I have no complaints with Kustom King however, they accepted a return on the glass with absolutely no problems whatsoever!
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Big Jim
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I too have used the bearpaw glass ONCE and never again.As delongbows said very streaky and poor quality. Big Jim will see you right for Bowtuff.Re the other question, personally never heard of wider glass than 2'' but others may be able to advise otherwise.
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BearPaw has been trying to get me to purchase their glass and in no way will that happen.
The quality of Gordon glass is excellent, BUT the streaks (cosmetic issues only) come and go. It is unfortunate but there are no other acceptable sources for glass.
As long as people continue to use or request dark veneers under glass, those minor streaks will continue to stick out like a sore P***er.
But as with most others, I too like the darker veneers. If we increase the amount of trad shooters ten fold, the demand will allow Gordons to replace some of their old equipment.
BIgJIm
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These streaks make me a little sick to my stomach.
(http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w364/typical2/IMG_20140802_103804_854_zpsxkjvosds.jpg) (http://s1072.photobucket.com/user/typical2/media/IMG_20140802_103804_854_zpsxkjvosds.jpg.html)
What do you do when you get glass like this? Send it back?
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Typical2, I hate seeing that. I have been lucky and have only seen minor places in my clear Glass.. I used to buy from KennyM, he always tried to weed out the streaky stuff the best he could. Maybe we can talk about "how we inspect glass" before glue up. I talked to a bowyer a few years back about this. He said they wet the glass and set it on a black surface, then shine a bright light on it hoping to find any streaks. I have used a black light in a dark room and shined it thru the glass looking for streaks, I have found some but missed some too. Like many others I prefer dark veneers like Figured Bubinga, macassar ebony and East Indian rosewood..I have some Royal Ebony that should look awesome under clear glass.
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Typical2, that is what I'm seeing in my latest glue up, but not as bad as yours. Once glued up, not sure how one would send it back.
Based on the posts in this thread from trusted and reliable sources, I'll just keep on with the Gordon product. I don't build enough or stock enough to sort it out.
Thanks to all that gave the heads up om Bear Paw! :thumbsup:
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I glued up 3 bows with sweet veneers. I love everything about how these bows turned out except this streaky glass. I have never had a problem.
I can't imagine that Gordon's would want to sell this. I'm sure the dealer wouldn't.
I have 2 more pieces from this shipment and i am gunshy about using it on any nice veneers. I will try to look for streaks before I use it and if it is iffy i'll turn them into tip wedges.
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There are very few strips without some imperfections and unfortunately dark veneers make them shine.
Gordon's equipment could use a little revamping but the clearness comes and goes. Just not enough bowyers or business for glass strips(like we use) left for them to spend the money to re tool is what i'm told.
bigjim
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Originally posted by BigJim:
There are very few strips without some imperfections and unfortunately dark veneers make them shine.
Gordon's equipment could use a little revamping but the clearness comes and goes. Just not enough bowyers or business for glass strips(like we use) left for them to spend the money to re tool is what i'm told.
bigjim
Sadly the day will come when they NEED new tooling and either they'll stop making it or they will have to raise the price, probably drastically. Wouldn't shock me to see $25 or $30 per strip of glass at some point. Gotta pay for equipment somehow.
Or maybe we can all try to convert more compound shooters .....
Anyone know what the few big companies do? Are they making their own glass or also getting from Gordon?
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The real question is "Are there any other manufacturers of bow glass other than Gordon's?"
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Just Bear paw
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just a random thougt, and maybe a dumb one at that, but are there any suitable plastic alternatives to glass? It seems as though plastic is made everyday by multiple huge companies for various purposes. It is used in everything from bottles to computers..surely there is something in that whole hodge podge of a multi billion dollar industry that would serve as a viable, durable, and strong clear backing for the lowly bowyer yes?
Heck, it even seems as though it would be easier to manufacture, beings that it is heat formed..may even be able to build a home made furnace and teflon jigs to make our own?? lol
anyway..whatcha think?
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Fiberglass is plastic...except the fibers I guess.
bigjim
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The big (trad) guys all get theirs from Gordons. They too have all the same cosmetic issues that we have too and then some.
Bear uses only colored glass and some of theirs can be streaky.
Bigjim
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I have had a couple of sets of glass that were more streaky than the normal slight imperfections. I contacted my supplier and he took care of me with no questions asked. That's why I get my glass from Rosewood Archery Mike always goes above and beyond to take care of my needs. He is a stand up guy and truly wants to give his customers the best product he can.
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My problem is that I don't see the streaks till after the glue up!
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exelcomposites... Finnish company- but I`m even more dissapointed with the samples they sent me than with the Bearpaws (btw. made by "isosport" from Austria). Haven`t used the clear so far but black and white are only slightly through dyed and "covered" with black/white paper... makes me a bit scared of even trying the clear on a real bow^^
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for a seminar i ordered glass for 10 bows. We could not get other glass in germany at this time so the shop send us the doubled length of glass we normaly needed. So we could look and use the best parts of it. We look through the glass with lamps so we could get the fail spots. At the end, we had noting to spare. So only 50% of the glass was usable.
Some time ago i ordered from KennyM, his glass (also the laminates) were good!. Now my glass shop has also good glass. Several bowyer build a group and by together all the stuff.
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Here is the link to the group:
BB-Top (http://www.bbtop.de/)
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Easy solution...............
Gordon Glass could cull the clear glass and sell the streaky glass as seconds for a reduced price. Not gonna happen because as long as you will by the crap at the same price, why change anything. Truth be known they probably do cull the glass and the big bow builders, Bear, Martin, Pearson etc. get the best glass and the little guy, well you know the drill.
I haven't bought a piece of clear glass in over 3 years
Just my take
James
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Well James, they actually grade and cull a high percentage of the glass and recycle it. Unfortunately there are so few pieces of truly clear glass that they would have to cull it all otherwise anything that wasn't perfect would then warrant a complaint.
There just isn't enough of what we do going on for them to justify a revamp of all their old equipment. If there was a good enough market for the glass, there would be more competition. As it is, Bear Paw is the only competition and their glass is so lousy they aren't even competition.
Apparently you haven't looked at the "Big bow builders" trad bows lately. Bear doesn't use clear glass and all of there colored glass is streaky. Martin probably does buy the seconds. The glass they use is very rough and I don't know of Pearson making any trad bows.
BigJIm
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I can only buy from secondary suppliers such as Bingham. My orders are small.
Maybe Bingham could bring that kind of pressure to bear and, maybe they have. Maybe an order of clear from Bingham is as good as it gets.
If I were one of the Big Boys buying direct from Gordon, I'd be kinda perturbed if there was a whole lot of the streaky stuff!
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You guys need to look at all these "big guys" stuff before you start a movement to shun Gordon.
None of their stuff is better or even as good as what's available to the individual bowyer.
I'm sure what staff they have allocated to the glass being made for trad guys could be better used and more profitable working with the guys they have building the compound glass.
bigjim
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The only two are Gordons and Bear Paw. Have not heard any much good on the German product. So we will be staying with the Gordons glass like Big Jim. It would be nice to see some one else come out with a good product
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My take is really simple, if you buy twice as much glass and cull out the crap on your end, the price doubles ... If Gordon Composites revamps their equipment, they need to recoup the cost, and who knows what the price becomes ... 1.5x .... 2x .... 4x .... What it is now ....
Then again I guess that's an easy approach to take when not buying the glass.
I'll say for sure though, when I do make a glass bow which will be soon, I will definitely be buying extra glass .... God only knows what you can do with the stuff you cull out .... Mail it back to Gordon and save the planet or something ...
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Too bad some good things don't last. Bjørn Bengtson AB of Sweden made the worlds best bow glass and it was 100% clear. It was more costly than Gordon's so bowyers of course bought Gordon's. Bjørn glass is no longer made, but luckily I still have some of it. Quality usually cost a little more. Bue--.
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I have been trying to work out how to vacuum bag bows for a couple of years. I was introduced to vacuum bagging in the RC hobby. Many high stress load bearing composites can made relatively easily with a home bagging system. That said this thread caused me to do some side research.
The most common glass for bow lams is plain weave E-Glass in bow terms stronger than carbon fiber and weaker than S-Glass, but just right for bows.
I see no reason why a person cannot make their own lams which would be very similar to common practices used in RC and other hobbies. Probably best done with a milled mold.
Just thought I would share in case anyone is interested.