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Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: bowmad on March 17, 2014, 09:42:00 PM

Title: Titebond or Smooth-On
Post by: bowmad on March 17, 2014, 09:42:00 PM
Hey everybody. I've been making bows since just before Thanksgiving, and now, obviously, I can't think about anything else. I've made eight bows so far but they have all been backed with rawhide or nothing at all. For my next bow I want to try a maple backed walnut possibly with some reflex. Up until now I've used Titebond II for all my glueing purposes and it has done what I needed, so my question is is it absolutely necessary that I use Smooth-On or something similar for the glue up on this type of bow, or can I get away with the cheaper Titebond? I feel like I've seen the answer to this question somewhere before but I can't remember where, and even though this is my first post here as a new member, I've already learned a ton from you guys so thanks!
Title: Re: Titebond or Smooth-On
Post by: Pat B on March 17, 2014, 09:45:00 PM
TBII will work just fine for an all wood backed bow. I have made many and never had a glue line failure.
Title: Re: Titebond or Smooth-On
Post by: bowmad on March 17, 2014, 09:50:00 PM
Thanks. That's good to know!
Title: Re: Titebond or Smooth-On
Post by: red hill on March 17, 2014, 10:25:00 PM
Listen to, pat! He knows what he's talking about.
Title: Re: Titebond or Smooth-On
Post by: Sam Harper on March 18, 2014, 12:15:00 AM
You could use Unibond 800.  It's cheaper than Smooth On, but fills gaps better than Titebond.
Title: Re: Titebond or Smooth-On
Post by: Bowjunkie on March 18, 2014, 05:01:00 AM
The best type of glue to use should depend on the gluing surface. If it's rough, as if 'ground' with a coarse sander or other tools, or if it has small gaps because we were unable to perfectly mate the pieces together, then a gap-filling glue like Smooth On, or Unibond is best.

If on the other hand, the surface is smooth, as would be the result of a planer or jointer, and perfectly mated, then a glue without gap-filling properties such as Titebond will generally work better.

Use what you need to best suit your application.... or prep your joints to suit your glue  ;)
Title: Re: Titebond or Smooth-On
Post by: bowmad on March 18, 2014, 06:53:00 AM
Ah, that makes sense. I think what I'll do is get the wood and determine which direction I need to go from there. I do have a planer at my disposal so I'll probably try that approach first!
Title: Re: Titebond or Smooth-On
Post by: bowmad on March 23, 2014, 04:08:00 PM
Ok, so I went the planer and TBII approach. So far so good. Problem is now I have maple on the back of the bow and nothing else. Anyone have an idea for stain or something so I don't have a solid white backing? I'd like to make it at least a LITTLE less visible... but I do want to keep the contrast of the maple and walnut, just maybe not to the disadvantage of the hunter    :)
Title: Re: Titebond or Smooth-On
Post by: 4est trekker on March 23, 2014, 07:15:00 PM
All of the above is excellent advice. I've seen this topic come up a lot over the last couple of years leading to a greater clarity for many.  This is good because I'm afraid many bows have met their end due to no other reason that an improper pairing of surface prep and glue choice.  Best of luck, and enjoy the build!  :)
Title: Re: Titebond or Smooth-On
Post by: macbow on March 23, 2014, 07:20:00 PM
Might want to use a light rub on stain. Then you can add coat till you get the color you wnt. Maybe a cherry or med dark maple.
Title: Re: Titebond or Smooth-On
Post by: LESKEN2011 on March 24, 2014, 06:41:00 AM
Leather dye adds great color to an otherwise white bow back, but I have also used water based dyes in the tube you get at HD and even clothing dyes on occasion with some success (mixed with alcohol)
Title: Re: Titebond or Smooth-On
Post by: Roy from Pa on March 24, 2014, 07:14:00 AM
After applying stain, you can rub it with 0000 steel wool to lighten it up where ever you like. If you hit any sharp edges with the steel wool, it will take the stain off completely.
Title: Re: Titebond or Smooth-On
Post by: bowmad on March 24, 2014, 09:15:00 AM
Thanks for the advice fellas! I'd love to put a couple snakes on the back but It's not in the budget yet, so I'll experiment with some different dyes and stains on a scrap piece of maple and see what turns out best. I just don't want to ruin it before I start, and I'm pretty good at that!
Title: Re: Titebond or Smooth-On
Post by: Pat B on March 24, 2014, 11:00:00 AM
You can take a dry sponge, like you wash dishes with put dye on it and blot it along the back of the bow, It will leave a mottled pattern that looks pretty good. Use a few different colors for more variety.  I used this method on the PA Trade Bow I'm building. If Photobucket were more cooperative I'd post pics.
 Do a few tests first on a scrap so you get the hang of it. I did mine on a rawhide backing but it should work fine on bare wood.
Title: Re: Titebond or Smooth-On
Post by: bowmad on March 24, 2014, 09:29:00 PM
Here's a pic of the bow so far   (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/Aaron_Ingram/media/WP_20140323_004_zps9c43e55f.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Titebond or Smooth-On
Post by: bowmad on March 24, 2014, 09:43:00 PM
Well, looks like that link didn't work.
Great suggestion Pat, I'm gonna try that for sure.
Title: Re: Titebond or Smooth-On
Post by: bowmad on March 25, 2014, 03:02:00 PM
I took Pat's suggestion and ran with it.
   (http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m56/Aaron_Ingram/WP_20140325_004_zps2ef5bf79.jpg?t=1395773133)
Title: Re: Titebond or Smooth-On
Post by: Zradix on March 25, 2014, 05:21:00 PM
:eek:  

I'd really like to see a close up of that one.

looks BEAUTIFUL in the pic....thought is was skinned at first...had to go back and read what Pat suggested.
Title: Re: Titebond or Smooth-On
Post by: bowmad on March 25, 2014, 05:47:00 PM
I basically just dipped a sponge in stain to make the "scales," and used the corner of the sponge in a different stain to make the "diamonds."
   (http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m56/Aaron_Ingram/5775563a-aea5-461d-ba94-1da799bf9431_zpsc48e2458.jpg?t=1395783876)  

it gave a nice pattern on the back while still leaving some nice natural color to contrast with the walnut on the side.    :)  like this
   (http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m56/Aaron_Ingram/a86967ab-3baa-480a-ac76-f7dd92dc094a_zps64005583.jpg?t=1395783823)
Title: Re: Titebond or Smooth-On
Post by: Zradix on March 25, 2014, 05:54:00 PM
Thanks for the close up.

I really like it!

Very clean looking bow..NICE!
Title: Re: Titebond or Smooth-On
Post by: Roy from Pa on March 25, 2014, 06:17:00 PM
Very nice...
Title: Re: Titebond or Smooth-On
Post by: Pat B on March 25, 2014, 06:26:00 PM
That looks very nice. It compliments the other colors in the bow.
Title: Re: Titebond or Smooth-On
Post by: bowmad on March 25, 2014, 09:44:00 PM
Thanks fellas. The good advice helped me finish it faster than I expected!
Title: Re: Titebond or Smooth-On
Post by: BenBow on March 26, 2014, 08:42:00 AM
So if I make my lams using 220 paper will that be smooth enough to use tb2 or should I use the smooth on I have?
Title: Re: Titebond or Smooth-On
Post by: Jorgy on March 26, 2014, 09:34:00 AM
Looks real nice bowmad.
Title: Re: Titebond or Smooth-On
Post by: LittleBen on March 26, 2014, 09:38:00 AM
BenBow,

I've used TBIII on nearly every bow I've built with no problems.

Most I glue up with planed surfaces as mentioned if possible, or sanded.

I've glue multi-lam bows that were prepped with 36grit, and with 220grit and they've all held together without incident.
Title: Re: Titebond or Smooth-On
Post by: BenBow on March 26, 2014, 11:44:00 AM
Thanks Ben. Are you doing straight bows or do they have some d/r in them? I'm designing a mild d/r 1 piece.
Title: Re: Titebond or Smooth-On
Post by: Zradix on March 26, 2014, 11:54:00 AM
Ben does lots of cool bows.
...Most if not all I've seen are R/D's of some type.
Title: Re: Titebond or Smooth-On
Post by: BenBow on March 26, 2014, 12:06:00 PM
Aaron that really turned out nice!
Title: Re: Titebond or Smooth-On
Post by: fujimo on March 26, 2014, 09:17:00 PM
wow.. you sure are cranking them out.
very nice bow, really cool "skins"   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Titebond or Smooth-On
Post by: soy on March 26, 2014, 09:22:00 PM
Very well done   :clapper: