Well I guess the popularity of carbon arrows has an advantage to many of us; it makes the aluminum arrows much cheaper.
Folks nowadays seem to want to write-off the aluminum arrow as antiquated and no longer viable as arrow material. I'm here to defend the venerable "beer can" as a better all around arrow than its adolescent cousin....at least at this point.
Aluminum arrows are made in so many sizes, it is much easier to match a shaft to your bow without having to weigh-down the tubing end to make it bend.
With the carbon, there are about four sizes....find the closest and it's still too stiff...then you add weight to the end to make it bend. Then it is too light, so you add line to the inside to make it heavier. Then, you may need to add weight to the end once more to make it bend more.
It is said carbons are "much more durable." I have not found this to be the case; either that, or I'm the only person who has broken two dozen of them in about two years. My aluminums will take direct hits on stumps and rarely bend unless you side-swipe a tree or stump....then they bend. You can straighten an aluminum arrow to within .300 of an inch of straight. In two years, I have bent four alumninum arrows but have broken none during stump shooting. I have destroyed seven or eight Carbonwood arrows and at least that many Goldtips.
I have two bows that I shoot on a fairly regular basis. Bother are within two pounds of one another; one a longbow and one a recurve, both shoot the same size aluminum arrow without any adjustments to weight or spine, and they shoot them perfectly. I can shoot either field points, blunts, Ribteks or Bear Razorheads and they still fly perfectly. My arrows weigh right around 486 grains without adding any other weight system.
I do expect carbon arrows to become better over the next few years, as manufacturers gear some of them toward the traditional shooters. They will become more spine tolerant, and will have more mass without having to load with junk. As of right now, they are not varied enough in those categories to suit me. And, I can buy four dozen aluminum shafts for the price of one dozen made-up carbon arrows; but then, I do have to thank the carbon arrows for that 8^).
All in all, don't let the detractors tell you that aluminum arrows are junk; or that they will bend everytime you hit something other than a soft bale of hay. Of course, there will be folks who come on here and say they haven't broken an arrow since they switched to carbon, and I'll say good for them....although I may not believe them. But, if they are quite happy then that is all that is necessary. You have to use what suits you.
I've been using these archaic aluminum arrows for over forty years, along with my cedars...a few fiberglass and a few carbons. I haven't found any arrow shaft so superior to aluminum that I thought I should change. At least not at this point.
I still pick up a carbon or two every now and then. I have cedar, fir and even fiberglass and I shoot them all occasionally. But for arrow to arrow consistency...and accuracy, I'll pick up the Easton Aluminum 2016's. Try them all and be fair about your evaluation. They all work great...including aluminum.
As always, well worded George. While my findings don't mirror yours, I'm glad you are happy with aluminums.
I'd like to debate your points, but don't want to steal your thunder or sound like a whippersnapper to someone with obviously years more experience than myself.
JC....that's fine. I just think you don't throw out the butterscotch ice cream just becaue it isn't as popular as vanilla 8^). Lotsa' folks will always prefer the butterscotch.
I'm not castigating those shooting carbons, just elevating my aluminums to the status they deserve. It's not near time for a death nell.
George,
I have been thinking a lot about using aluminum, but have little to no knowledge about aluminum arrows. I do not want to go back to using carbon, I currently use wood and I am not happy with my arrows. My woodies have different weights and just do not seem consistent.
I want to get aluminum arrows for my 43lb recurve. What brand and spine would you suggest? Also where can I get them? Does anyone offer them with feathers instead of vanes? I appreciate any help.
Thanks
-Charlie
Is it ok to like butterscotch and vanilla??? :smileystooges:
I shoot CX Heritage 150's and Easton aluminums both, and they are both just dandy choices for me. If anything, I think my aluminums have been a little more durable and less worrisome.
Now, I got my coffee... :help:
QuoteOriginally posted by George D. Stout:
I just think you don't throw out the butterscotch ice cream just becaue it isn't as popular as vanilla 8^). Lotsa' folks will always prefer the butterscotch.
I'm not castigating those shooting carbons, just elevating my aluminums to the status they deserve. It's not near time for a death nell.
I whole heartedly agree George, certainly not time to bury the aluminums :thumbsup:
I second JC's post. Nicely worded though George
Curtis....now that's what I'm talking about son.
Charlie....Lancaster Archery Supply has lots of aluminum. I would try a 1916 if your draw is 28 to 29 inches. The black gamegetters seem to be very good arrows and very durable.....and relatively cheap.
George I have been using Alum. since the mid 70's and have not found a drawback yet.2018s and 2016 always worked in my 50-57 bow range.I have a few cheap carbons that work and others I cannot get to fly straight.At almost 58 I have stocked up on enough to get me through except some 1916 I use when I go lighter and maybe will need as I get older.Anybody got some 1916's.Kip
Yep, 2016s, 2018s, and the venerable 2020s. I love the 5/16 diameter aluminum "beer cans". I thought i'd never shoot my 2020s again when I dropped to 50# @ 26". However my Checkmate Falcon loves 'em - 2 inch groups at 30 yards bareshaft.
Tim
There are so many types of carbons out there it is hard to keep up. The majority of them are made for the compound shooter. With all the manufacturer's no two have the same numbering system for spine wts. But, with only one company making aluminums, sizes and makes have been going away. It will only be a matter of time, before there is only be a couple of makes of aluminum in afew spine groups.
George,
You show me those cheap alum 2018s and I'll buy em for shoots! Might have to step up a bit. That Morrison, cut 3/16 past center, when I bareshafted 2018's after years of thinking they were dead nuts, showed "weak". I still shoot em for shoots and nutsin around when I find them cheap.
At shoots, I'd gotten a great deal on GT's at $33/doz,so even working for a archery place, I didn't match that price on Alum...
What might I step up to a slight bit stiffer'n 2018 in small dia? 2117 seemed way too stiff...
Doc.....so after shooting them all those years, and they were flying great, you gave them up after bareshafting them, cause they showed weak? Goodness sakes alive! Wait until you find that bumble bees can't fly 8^).
I'm really glad I never got into bareshafting...it turns normal people into nervous wrecks. You need knocked....Doc 8^). :knothead: :confused:
I love aluminums for a number of reasons. The #1 reason is thay are straighter than carbons. Now im not talking about the $200 a dz carbons. I have given them a good try 3 different doz. and any easton aluminum arrow in the same price range will spin on a tester much straighter. I have also noticed that on the carbons i have tried that if you check spine then rotate 90 degrees you get a different spine.
I know i im to anal about consistency with my arrows but i just started using XX78 super slams and i smile every time i put them on the spinner.
The new digitals are .001
All statments above are based on the 3 different carbon arrows i have tried.
Amen, George.----------------Bone
I shoot aluminum and don't apologise for it. Have tried wood-love the feel but not the variable weights shaft to shaft. Have tried carbon and they are noisy, at least to my feeble ears.
Will stick to my cold aluminum when the shot counts.
I prefer wood, just can't make myself shoot aluminum or carbon from my selfbows, even though either one out performs wood. When shooting glass bows I go with carbon, found just the opposite of George, they are much more durable when stump shooting. Also, a lot of my hunting is done in cold weather and I do not like the cold feel of a metal arrow, or metal riser for that matter. Performance wise I partially agree with George, the aluminums with their greater selection are easier to tune to my bows. However, after getting a set of "GOOD" carbons tuned to a specific bow, for me, they perform slightly better. There is a wide range in the quality of the carbons out there and my personal feeling is that George is right about aluminum being better then about 70-80% of the carbons. Just my 2 cents worth :cool:
Guys weren't we discussing last week or so that Easton is reducing down to 3 or 4 the numbers of alum they will offer ? And number them like carbons- 300-400-500 ? If they do that the numerous sizing they offered will be out the door as far as "handiness" goes.
Tim....it's the "no bowhunter left behind" program. :banghead:
Well, I will say this much George...
While I don't agree with ya' in entirety, it's hard to NOT respect a man who stands up for his choice of arrow like that. Kudos to ya'.
Flinttim,sounds like Easton is pushing us towards the carbons which are $100++ a doz. Now why would they do that.
I agree George D. I like the alum myself. Been shooting them for almost 30yrs, they are easy to know which ones will fly good with your setup.
I have been shooting carbons for a little over a year. And even though they shoot good you have to play with them alot like with weight/length.
Alan
George: I expect I've been in this game about as long as you have, and I can't find fault with your treatise on aluminum. That being said, I, like Walt, still prefer wood. In fact, most of what you said about aluminum would also apply to wood, wide range of spines and weights, even more than eluminum, pretty tough, etc. Unfortunately, they are no longer the lower(est) priced option. Wood in my bow quiver also gives me piece of mind when I have to spend an unexpected night on the mountain. My fire tinder is always right with me. It's hard to light aluminum or carbon. (LOL)
Orion....I like wood as well and have several dozen in the cellar, made up and ready to go. I just get a little tired of folks who want to bury aluminum in the garbage dump in favor of the composite arrow. I really suspect that in twenty years all of them will be around, plus some new materials. The fiberglass was going to replace wood...the aluminum would replace wood and fiberglass; carbon will be the end-all. Pretty silly when you look back at what has already transpired. And, don't forget the stainless steel arrows that showed up in the 70's and was going to be "the" arrow. Oh yes...fluted shafts too. Who knows what lies ahead?
Aluminum shafting was part of the baby-boomer archery heyday coming out period...how's that for a home-made mood label! New kid on the block, 'better than wood', arrows of tomorrow here today, etc etc. Pearson, Dougherty, Bear, Kittridge, on and on with black and white TV and hula hoops and milkmen actually delivering real milk and real creme in real glass bottles right to your doorstep. For all that and more I have a fondness for them. And as you say, George, beyond that they are an excellently conistent no-frills no-gadget arrow. Then carbons were born and they were all that and a bag of chips...along with the prerequisite brass and tube weighting kits, nocks that wouldn't stay put, inconsistent spines, indestructability and bullet speeds, lol...all fine if you like that sort of thing. Can't say that I do, though, even if I use them occasionally. Guess they remind me too much of compound bow technology ... bigger /better /faster /easier /boring. Wood is still admired and trusted by some, despite all its 'imperfections', still the real deal for dyed-in-the-wool traditionalists. Wood layed the groundwork for the others...seasoned and experienced, the wise though grizzled old man among the whippersnappers. There's a place for all of them as long as we accept each on their own merits and don't get carried away with the 'mine's great and yours is stupid' thingy.
Good post, George. Doesn't hurt to revisit the forest behind the trees every once in awhile.
I agree with everything but the durability issue..... i bet if you took a poll on which arrow was the most durable...carbon would win 10 to 1.....im talking stock arrows...not fluted and built up......As soon as the carbon manufacturers come up with an arrow like the ce150 @ 10 grains per inch...and can market it in 1/2 dozen spines...i think the aluminums are going to end up like the fibergass arrows....just my opinion... i do think aluminum makes a great arrow and have used lots of them in the past... but right now enjoy carbon and woodies.
I like 'em all (wood, aluminum, carbon)
David
I've tryed them all alum,carbs&wood and I'll have to say I prefer aluminum.Carbon just dont seem right,woods are to ify and aluminum fly good and are so much easier to tune and to beat all that there cheap!! just my 2 cents! Covey
George, As usual you made a logical and reasonable point. Aluminium arrows are wondrously precise and effective. Unfortunately they are also cold, noisy and soulless. I love wood and am willing to sort , match, cull and fiddle to enjoy the joy of shooting well matched woodies.
George is right to think that MOST carbon arrows will not do a better job for him than his 2016 aluminium arrows. That is of course because carbon arrows were not intended to replace a 2016. If you remember, carbon arrows became popular because they could do what no aluminium arrow could. They could give the compound archer a 28"+ arrow that would be the corect spine and weigh 5-7gr per pound of bow weight. However, I do think that there are some carbon arrows now that can be used in place of a 2016 an do a better job such as the CX heritage 150.
The latest batch of aluminum arrows the big sporting good store out here got in from Easton were all numbered like carbons... :(
the change to aluminum sizing is because its suddenly understood that you tune the bow and the arrow together, instead of offering literally a hundred different arrows to match every conceivable bow/draw weight/draw length combination out there. Remember too, when all that started, tip weight was 100 grains or 125 grains...literally, that was all that was out there unless you made your own.
I've owned over a hundred bows...ranging in weight from 80 at 28 down to 58 at 28..and all were tuned to shoot my arrow of choice.
Its easy, if you try.
Aluminum is great...I just busted them up too much on hogs...they're a 'one shot' proposition on a pig unless you get lucky cause he is going to roll over on that shaft, guaranteed, if you don't get a full pass through...they love doing that, it's like revenge for them! George, you are my favorite writer, friend.
George, I agree with you 100%.
Anybody that overlooks aluminum arrows isn't paying attention to the tolerances. To get a carbon arrow with the same spine, straightness and weight tolerances, you have to pay about twice as much.
I mean actual measured tolerances, not advertised tolerances. When actually measuring & weighing arrows, I learned how untruthful the adds for carbon arrows are. With carbons, the real tolerances are at least double those advertised. With aluminum, they are usually right on.
Aluminum arrows are much easier to trim to length than carbons. I cheap hardware store pipe cutter and you're good to go. No high speed power bench saw and face mask needed.
Allen....i agree with you on the spine tolerance...but once you pull the aluminum out of the target butt a few times they arent as straight anymore.(due to bending while removing)..a slight spine difference in trad bows isnt going to matter much anyway... that is why we shoot woodies with a 5# difference in spine...4550 55//60 etc...plus a short draw, a change in braceheight...all changes spine also..... It seems to me if the carbon companys can make a wider range of spines...then the aluminums are going to disappear.....
Like most I shoot wood and carbon but I have a soft spot in my heart for aluminum. I like it because it's still manufactured to tighter tolerances then the average carbon shaft, is more forgiving and is far easier to maintain. It's a good thing that carbon is more durable because once put together there isn't any way to fix it later on. I also like the vast selection of sizes with aluminum. Unfortunately this is beginning to go away. My favorite's Easton XX78 Super Slam's have changed over to the spine deflection method of measurement. What I don't like about this is it appears you can't get the same spine in different diameters anymore. The XX78's at least in my experience rarely bend or break unless they contact something really solid.
jacobsladder, I don't know what aluminums you shot into a target butt that bent after a few times. I shot thousands of shots into butts during field and target rounds and never bent an aluminum. What you say is not true...unless you have steel rebar in your target butts. The problem is someone is going to believe that stuff.
QuoteOriginally posted by George D. Stout:
jacobsladder, I don't know what aluminums you shot into a target butt that bent after a few times. I shot thousands of shots into butts during field and target rounds and never bent an aluminum. What you say is not true...unless you have steel rebar in your target butts. The problem is someone is going to believe that stuff.
George,
I doubt the "bending" is due to impact of the arrow with the target/butt. Rather, I suspect it is due to torquing of the shaft by the person pulling the aluminum arrow from the target/butt.
Bill
I shot aluminum for years out of a compound bow and I went through many, many arrows due to bending or breaking. I bought my first dozen carbons(GT 75/95's)in the late '90s and after 8 seasons, still have 11 of them(none broke, one was lost in an unrecovered deer). So for durability, no one can convince me that aluminum is MORE durable(just my experience).
I switched to trad gear last year and started out with aluminum(easton legacy). Like many "newbies" I missed alot when I started shooting instinctive and soon bent or broke several of those aluminum arrows. I went back to carbon and have never looked back. I shoot Heritage 150s, Axis, and Bemans and have not had any trouble getting them to shoot as long as the bow is cut relatively close to center. I have only broken 2 carbons, both shot into football-sized rocks.
Aluminum arrows are fine in my books, but carbons fly great and will outlast aluminum 10-1. Also, carbons are about 50% more expensive, but much cheaper in the long run.IMO
P.S. I do have one gripe on carbons which is the need for a high speed saw to cut them. Other than that, they are the best arrow on the market to me.
pseman....be careful and ventilate the area good when cutting them. That dust can do really bad things to your lungs.
I am going to agree with George. I shoot wood or aluminum. I do alot of stump shooting and all the carbons I have had after several hard hits it will drive the insert up in the shaft and split it. I have had all the good brands gold tip, beman etc. and am back to shooting my wood and aluminum.
Matt
George...WildmanSC has it.... im talking about the arrows being bent while pulling from targets...My point is that aluminum are straighter and more precise from the factory...but after shooting them awhile they will not be any straighter than the carbons....I also said that alumiums make a good arrow... but carbons are a superior arrow...
George,
I decided to keep the butterscotch. Just ordered some 1916's from Badger Arrow. Good price and he was quick to answer my questions via e-mail.
-Charlie
I agree George, I've been shooting aluminums since 1961, and still do. My other arrow choice is wood, both POC & Sitka spruce. I also stump shoot with aluminum. I never could get a carbon to fly correct from my 26" draw, and "girley weight" bows) :D :D Bill G.
Yep, Wildman, I agree. It is amazing to see how much bend some guys put in arrows when they pull them out of a target--I've even cautioned some guys who were pulling my arrows when I saw a big bend in the shaft!
hawksnest....I kinda' like my woods as well. I was shooting some today:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v134/oldearcher46/snowwalk001.jpg)
I have been pulling arrows out of targets and have never bent and arrow.
What's so hard about it, you walk up to the target and grab the arrow up aganist the target. Give it a twist (clock wise) and pull, very easy.
Alan
nice pic george!!! love the bow too!
I'm shooting wood primarily now but I love aluminum arrows,, as far as souless,, I don't know about that,, My soul comes from God and he gave it to me and the tools in my hand are an extension of that soul. So wether its wood, aluminum, carbon, its deadly in my hands. I always found aluminum to be very effective killing arrows,, carbons were great out of my wheely bow but I prefer aluminum or wood while hunting with the stick. I have found aluminums to be more durable as far as direct hits. Glance shots go to carbons,, I love how easy aluminums are to set up,,and the weight you get right off the bat is hard to beat. Only wood and aluminum will give you weight with normal arrow setups "without adding a bunch of weight or tubes". They are far from dead and probably will never die off,, Agreed George,,aluminums are an awsome arrow,,J
sorry Jay...aluminums have one foot in the grave...lol. the ce150 is at 10 grains per inch...once they come out with a wider range of spines.....i have a feeling aluminums will be a thing of the past....is that a good thing..no! just looks like its heading in that direction.
I guess I better start buying up my favorite shafts then :knothead:
I am still a young kid compared to a lot of folks on this site but I have shot stickbows for my whole life. I picked up a few carbons last year to see what the hype was all about and to tell you the truth I am still wondering. I like woodies!! There is just something special to me about a stick bow and a wood arrow, they just seem to fit!! That being said woodies do take a severe beating while out stumping or at 3D ranges (at least for me they do). So because of this I like Aluminum for this type of shooting. But to be 100% honest I will say that in the last year I have broken or destroyed more of the carbons that I had bought than Aluminum. So as for me and the durability issue I am sticking with Aluminum for a number of my own reasons.
All arrows have there place in the sport we all love but it will be Wood and Aluminum that will have that spot in my quiver!!
Tim
Tim.....yep ! cant beat those woodies! especially those fire flys...sweet! but aluminum more durable than carbon??? not on any 3d course or thru any deer ive taken....and thats thru a bunch of 3d leagues and deer back in the wheelie days..
George, All I can say is thank god for baby boomers and beer cans.
Love my Aluminums 2020,2018,and 2016s. I've tried the new GG's in the 500 series and they're pretty good too. I've got to play with them a little more.
I disagree that aluminums are superior to carbons...and a lot of statements made are just not true....but do sound like they are made on emotion instead of facts.
I don't have time to address them all...but I will this.
I shot aluminums for 15 years, with Zwickey Delta four blades and a long adapter...total weight = 500 grains.
I now shoot UNWEIGHTED carbons with the same Zwickey and long adapter, and they weight 530 grains....so not only are all carbons NOT light, some are heavier than aluminums.
Nah, no need to bury aluminums,.....just don't ask me to use em....or try to make me believe they are more durable when I know they are not. No, they aren't quieter either.
BTW, I still shoot wood as well.
I agree with you Terry!! It is my own Personal reasons and from my own Personal experiences that I choose to shoot aluminum. They may be false to what others have found but I am OK with that.
Yeah Tim...we are a passionate bunch, so emotion is common place, and OK.
I agree with Terry, and I believe for the same reason.
Arrow Dynamics Trad's have pretty much changed the Finicky tuning carbon, the "Light" carbon and the only a couple sizes to choose from carbons. In fact AD Trads only come in two sizes but you can shoot them in 40-75 pound bows. They pretty much cover the spectrum.
I'm with Tim on this also. I shoot woodies and aluminums only because it's what I'm familiar with. I've played with carbon shafts, but nothing serious yet. Personally it's a hill I don't feel the need to climb yet! :archer:
I will say I have NO where near the expierence that alot of you guys have as I have only been shooting trad for 3 years. BUT I am fanatical tinkerer and have tried pretty much every arrow combo over and over just to have fun tinkering.
I think Alluminums are great....until they bend. Also I feel that Alluminums are louder on the shot, so are carbons if you compare them to wood but allums are louder to me. Woodies are the queitest and also the "Softest" upon release but are too inconsistent.
The Carbons are either Broke or straight, there is no bent. And i have personally never broke a carbon, lost a few yes, but never broken one. I have seen other guys break some but I havent.
BUT it all boils down to what WE as individuals like and are confident with. THAT is what counts, I am confident with my AD's and you might not. But hey thats human nature we are all different.
Terry...thanks for jumping in...i thought i was going crazy there for a moment..... I think vermonster summed it up on another thread..... shoot what you are most confident with..... but at this point the "only" advantage to aluminum is a wider range of spines and easier tuning.....and that is slowly changing.
I shot switch cane arrows as a child in the fifties from a crudely made bow, just a stick and string. I progressed to a factory bow and aluminun arrows . I later tried a custom bow and carbon arrows. I now have traveled back to where I started and enjoy it more than ever.I say to each his own but if shooting a bow becomes more of a mental aggravation and complex endeavor to you back up and you just may find that simpler is more satisfying. George, you are almost there! You expressed my thoughts on this subject well. Some here get your message and others that don't,will eventually if they stay the course. You sure gave us all something to think about.Thanks a million!
I'm sure when Aluminum arrows came out everyone thought wood and fiberglass would disappear to.
Carbons are the "in" thing until the next best thing comes out...I've shot aluminum for years, and they have their downfall just like everything else, yet they have worked great too.
My woodies have taken a ton of abuse and still shoot great. (Thanks Paul Jalon!)
yep Paul Jalon the man.... makes some sweet woodies!!!!!!!
Whew....I bowed out of the discussion only to find plenty to weigh in behind me, so I guess I'll join in the crowd. Sorry George, the whippersnapper in me just couldn't stand it :D
I think Ray hit the alum #'ing change square on the head: while it may be a marketing issue in part, it also makes plain sense to cut down the 50 spines to 5...cause tuning will get you there with those "limited" choices. I know...it's not the "old school way" of doing it, but it's sure hard to argue the results.
I prefer carbon for multiple reasons and think it is a superior material. I seldom say "superior" and usually talk about opinion...but in this case I feel confident in using "superior".
Durability: Someone said something like, if polled, I'll bet carbons would be called more durable by 10/1. I don't doubt that, even if factoring in the greater number of carbon users. I used to shoot alum out of my compounds and didn't stump shoot because of durability issues. I did try alums but also discovered the joy of stumping...way more bent alums in my back yard than busted carbons. Went to a shoot that forbade carbons...I was smokin hot that day and way ahead. I lost some of my lead on 2 bad targets that I thought were my fault until I noticed very poor arrow flight on the 3rd. Someone bent my arrow while pulling (2314). I used a straight arrow for the next target and smoked it...checked the arrow and it was bent. From that point on, no-one pulled my aluminum arrows but me. Carbon is either straight or broke.
Flexibility: Taking my 64# morrison as an example, I can build arrows that weigh roughly 450gr to 850gr, all using the same 200gr head, that fly perfectly so I find them far more flexible.
Weight: As far as weighting etc., I personally think Dr. Ashby has enough data to convince me high FOC improves penetration. I think it's much easier to find an appropriate carbon shaft for high foc (and still make your target arrow weight) than it is aluminum...and I believe carbons recover faster from paradox making high FOC more viable with this material. Look at the weighting choices for carbons as options, not detriments. Another option: want to shoot a light arrow for 3d and heavier for game but don't want seperate arrows...tube em; can't do that with aluminum.
I don't agree with "the weights I want" type statements either: I'll bet I could build a carbon arrow (within reasonable range) within 10 grains of what you want your target weight to be. The sheer # of carbon arrows produced in weights from 4gr/in to 15gr/in cuts a wide swath. There is a carbon out there for everyone.
Straightness: Yes, aluminum are minutely more straight than carbon only shafts. But, most carbons aren't far off: this is a common misconception regarding carbons. Most of the runout I have found comes from the ends of carbons. When cutting, try cutting equally from both ends...some of your runout will disappear. With this method, and using the Arrow Squaring Device on BOTH ends while building the arrow, I find them straighter by far than I can tell in shooting. With trad gear and 99% of the shooters out there, I think even the poor end of the spectrum of .006 is simply overkill (most of the better carbons I measured when I got curious came in around .003-4).
Aluminum certainly isn't dead and gone, for that matter I hope none of the arrow materials leave us; the more choices the better, imho. But purely based on "performance", I am convinced it's tied for second at best with wood. Choose wood or aluminum because you like them better....but I don't think you could prove they are superior in any fashion.
There, the gauntlet is down...and it's made of carbon :biglaugh:
Okay Terry....who said aluminums were superior to carbons. The tread is about not relegating aluminums to the grave as of yet 8^). Some of us think they are every bit as good and probably better in some aspects....especially consistency from spine to spine. Carbons are great arrows, but I'm not ready to throw everything else away.
I think I'm getting to like my cedar even better than all of them.
George, show me a "good" cedar I can buy these days and I'd own some. I tried cedar again a few years ago and they were like kindlin...but was given some "old" ones that really were very fine arrows. I think there is something to the complaint I often hear that the cedar from days gone by was superior to today's supply. Whatcha think?
And I'll give you the straightness factor of aluminums...but if .003 difference is enough to make you choose them over carbons, you should never be shooting wood. :p
And I'll also give that most wood arrows are superior in one regard...I can't stand the smell of a broke carbon or aluminum :rolleyes:
I hear ya George....
Joe...Compressed Maples is where its at.......knowhatimean Vern?
Here is my thoughts and opinions on arrow shafts after 36 years of hunting with recurve bows ranging form 45 to 65 lbs.
Aluminum is great as long as you stay with a smaller diameter thick walled shaft. A 2020 Al makes for a very durable heavy hunting shaft that is hard to beat if it works with your bow. If the wall thickness goes below a .016", Al shafts will bend and mushroom much to easily to be used for hunting in my opinion. With my current go to bow, a center cut high performance recurve, I need a stiffer shaft than a 2216 and 2219's are too stiff unless I use real heavy heads. I find Al difficult to tune and get consistent flight with heavy heads (greater than 175 grns). I am unwilling to shoot a large diameter small thickness shaft to get the spine I need.
The performance of a tapered ceder or sitka arrow is hard to beat as they are forgiving and they are nearly as durable as aluminum. However, it takes a lot of time to keep yourself supplied. When my kids are older and I have more time, I will probably make and shoot tapered cedar or spruce with a hardwood foot for durability exclusively. I have heard maple shafts are great, but were do you find them, I dont have time to make them.
I have only been shooting carbons for about 2 years. I have found the brands I have tried to be much more durable than wood and AL. Unless you loose a lot of arrows, carbon is the most cost effective shaft. Rumor has it that some brands of carbon shafts are poorly made and fragile but I have not had that experience. I have found them easy to tune and to hit the desired arrow weight with a given head by verying shaft length and BH adapter weight. I have just started expermenting with tapered carbon shafts and am finding they offer the shootablity benifits of tapered ceder with the durability benifits of carbon. I will probably use them this year before making any long term commitments.
George...i like the woodies also....cedar, sitka spruce, and laminated birch make some nice arrows..I do agree that aluminums are not ready for the dumpster.
QuoteOriginally posted by George D. Stout:
hawksnest....I kinda' like my woods as well. I was shooting some today:
Maybe it's an "old fart" thing with us George.
:-) Bill
It's hard to teach an old dog new tricks. Nothing wrong with the beer cans but carbon beats em all for performance, penetration and durability. Around hear a dozen of good xx78's cost over a hundred bucks and are well within a twenty dollar bill of any doz/carbon shafts (good ones). I think the big difference is for those buying thirty dollar/doz carbons at mallmart, they are junk compared to top o line carbons. When I bought my 75# longbow five years back I had three doz good carbons for it. I still have thirty three shafts left. Thats after many three D rounds and lots of hunting. I killed seven hogs last week using those shafts and only on the eighth hog did one get busted up. For me aluminum's for beer cans and carbons for good arras.
George,
Please don't take the old dog thing personally. It's the old saying I'm refereing too.
Careful, George. If we make them too popular, Easton will bring back all the sizes and RAISE THE PRICE!!!!! I'm probably OK though. I've got a couple of 30-year old aluminums and quite a newer ones. I just strip them, straighten them, and repaint/fletch them every other year or so and they're just like the Energizer Bunny. At the rate I lose them I'm not likely to run out of the shafts even if I never buy another. Did I mention I'm also cheap?