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Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: Pat B on January 13, 2012, 05:22:00 PM
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Last week I posted pics of 2 of my winter projects. One is a 2" diameter osage pole(TG Bow Trade bow)and the other is a 47" yew paddle bow Keenan gave me at last years Tenn Classic. It is shaped like some of the Pacific Northwest bows. The blank originally had pretty thick sapwood so I reduced that down to a few rings. There are some violations ablve these sapweood rings but I am going to sinew back this bow.
Here is what the bow looked like last week
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/47inchyewmodocaKeenan005.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/47inchyewmodocKeenan004.jpg)
Over the last few days I have been reducing the belly but this thing is still quite strong. Once I got 2" of tip movement at floor tiller I decided to give the tips a slight flip.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/47inchyewmodocaKeenan001.jpg)
The first tip bend very nicely but the second was going to be my problem child. It has a knot on one edge of the tip. As I was bending it I heard a crack and noticed the knot gave way. It was still attached to the tip and didn't really harm thev tip itself so I filled the crack with super glue. It is in a non working portion of the tip so I'm not worried. If you look close you can see the break at the forward end of the knot...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/47inchyewmodocaKeenan001.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/47inchyewmodocaKeenan004.jpg)
...and the end results...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/47inchyewmodocaKeenan005.jpg)
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The first and last pic are the same. My bad!
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Pat, I would love to spend a couple days with you in your shop. I'm not all that up on stave bows. Looking nice..
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I'll be having my camp-o-rama at the end of July, Roy. Come on down. We always have a fun weekend and build lots of primitive stuff.
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Pick Charlie(Stringstretcher) with ya!
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Got her bending a little more today...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/47inchyewmodoccKeenan003.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/47inchyewmodocdKeenan004.jpg)
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That is looking real sweet Pat. If you leave the tips stiff for that long on such a short bow, do you have problems with parts of the limb doing too much of the work.
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RB, this bow will bend through the handle at full draw so the stresses are distributed throughout the bow. The flipped tips will keep the string angle less so less chance of stacking.
I got her bending a bit more. Here she is at 50#@17", about 27# left to remove and this is without sinew. I'll be adding 2 or 3 courses of backstrap sinew and would like the final draw to be 50#@26"(if possible). Less length and/or weight if necessary.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/47yewpaddlebow002.jpg)
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We have a nice rainy day today so I thought it was a perfect time to begin the sinewing process. I will document this throughout the process.
To begin the sinewing process I first "grooved" the back of this bow with a toothing plane from tip to tip. I then lightly sanded the back with 150gt emory cloth to remove any loose scrapings before adding the hide glue/sinew.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/sinewingthe47inchyewModoc003.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/sinewingthe47inchyewModoc002.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/sinewingthe47inchyewModoc005.jpg)
..more to come later...
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Pat,
I am looking forward to "the rest of the story"
Nice work!
Regards.
Bert. :archer2:
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Thanks Bert. Me too! d;^)
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Pat, sorry Bud but I hope it rains tomorrow:) LOL, looking forward to the sinew show..
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Well Roy, I had enough time today to get the sinew(at least the first layer) put down.
First I needed to degrease the bows back. I wet it with warm water and scrubbed it well with Dawn dish soap. I then rensed it with boiling water poured down the limbs from the handle. Here she is all wet and naked laying across the hydrating sinew...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/SinewingtheyewModoc005.jpg)
It was also time to rehydrate the hide glue. I used a stainless steel bowl to hold the glue and floated it in the crock pot half filled with water...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/SinewingtheyewModoc003.jpg)
...after a few minutes the glue chrystals begin to desolve in the warm water...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/SinewingtheyewModoc009.jpg)
Now it is time to put the bow in its form. I use a loop of sinew around the handle and hook it to a cup hook in the 2x4 base...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/SinewingtheyewModoc007.jpg)
then raise the tips on to 2x4 blocks...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/SinewingtheyewModoc008.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/SinewingtheyewModoc006.jpg)
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Now it is time to size the back of the bow by brushing on the warm hige glue.
here is the fully disolved glue...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/SinewingtheyewModoc012.jpg)
I let the sizing gel before adding the sinew. Since the back was still somewhat wet the glue soaked into the wood well. Here is a pic with one limb sized. I used the foam paint brush to apply the glue...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/SinewingtheyewModoc013.jpg)
When the sinew was well hydrated I seperated it into buldles and laid it out for easy access. There is another layer of sinew bundles under the damp paper towel...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/SinewingtheyewModoc011.jpg)
Once the glue gelled I began to add the sinew. I started by laying the first bundle down the center of both limbs starting at the handle with the first bundle centered through the haldle area. I went all the way out each limb and over the tip to the belly side.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/SinewingtheyewModoc014.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/SinewingtheyewModoc015.jpg)
From here I continued adding sinew along both sides of the layer down the center working toward the edges until both limbs were covered. This is how she sits now. Tomorrow I will inspect the sinew and fill any bare or thin spots when I can see it well under natural light and it has dried some. If all goes well, I will let her sit where she is for at least a month to let the sinew/hide glue cure out. Then I will decide if she needs more sinew or not.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/SinewingtheyewModoc016.jpg)
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This is awesome. Great job!
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Looking nice, Pat.
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Here she is this morning. The sinew looks and feels dry but I know it is far from that. It will be at least a month before I remove her from the form. There are a few thin spots that I will add sinew to today and then it is time for a rest so she can cure out well.
Here are a few pics from this morning...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/sinewingmodoc001.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/sinewingmodoc002.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/sinewingmodoc003.jpg)
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I have a lot more tillering to do after the sinew is cured. Before adding the sinew she was 50#@17". My goal is 40#-50#@26". The bow is 47"t/t so I don't even know if I can get to 26" draw.
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Pat,
a couple of questions, is your tiedown on your "form" sinew as well and you just go over top of it with the strands and do you just wet the sinew and lay it up on the seized bow back or do you still dip it in the hide glue before you lay it up?
Thanks, I have a piece of hickory I might want to do some sinewing on.
Regards.
Bert. :archer2:
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Bert, yes the loop holding the handle down on the form is sinew. After trying to figure out how to do this, knowing thread or string would compromise the sinew backing, I thought about uing the sinew. When I sized the bow before laying down the sinew I put glue over the sinew loop on the back of the handle and just layed the backing sinew over it. It has become part of the backing. When the bow is done and the sinew backing has cured I'll just clip the loop close to the backing and sand it smooth. I used this method on the 53" sinew backed osage I posted a month or so ago and it worked like a champ.
I hydrated the sinew in warm water first then layed it out in useable bundles close at hand. Then dipped each bundle in the warm hide glue, squeegeed the bundle lightly with my fingers to remove the excess glue and layed it in place. It doesn't take much glue to stick the sinew down and too much glue just adds excess weight and can crack. The cracking isn't fatal to the bow but it can be to you. You know how your heart skips a beat when you hear a crack at full draw.
A few years ago I made a copy of Jay Massey's Medicine Bow; sinew backed hickory with a painted rawhide covering. It is a sweet bow but very susceptable to R/H. When I built it it came out 56#@26". A month later in our humid summer it had dropped to about 45#@26". I sent it out to a friend in Colorado to play with and after a month it was up to 65#@26". It still holds the same reflex, no matter the humidity and still shoots well even at 45# but it really shines at 55# to 65#. For a dry climate sinew/hickory is an excellant combo.
Pat
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Thanks Pat,
That's what I figured, I build a Hickory bow one time on the Oregon coast came out at about 56"-57# after 6 months in Alberta it was well over 65#.
Great work, keep it going, looking forward to seeing the finished product.
Take care.
Bert.
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Professor Pat again great build along.... living on the west coast this is on my want to do list. How long do you suppose you would have to make one for a 27" draw ? I know that the design was made for very short draws but I am curious?
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Kip, I don't know if I will be able to get this one to 26" like I want but I'm gonna try. This is the first of this design I've built. 54" would be twice your draw. Maybe 50" or slightly less but that is strictly a guess.
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Thanks for sharing Pat. I saved all my deer leg tendons this year so I can give this a try.
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Just passing it on, Mitch!
Good luck on your attempt.
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Cool as heck Pat...never seen it done but I can see that workin great on a nice Mesquite bow. I plan on cuttin a bunch here in a couple months.
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Well here I am again with this little bow. Her sinew has been drying since Feb. 15. I took her off her form a few days ago and began retillering her after her sinew cured. After removing wood a few scrapes at a time I got to the point where she was pulling over 50#@20". A few days later and a few more scrapes I have her pulled to 55#@24", still a bit strong. I still need to correct the tiller some too so that will get the weight down some more. I took her out and put 12 shots through her. She is quite fast! With the wide arrow pass I wasn't getting real good arrow flight with the parallel poplare I was shooting. Proper tapered(either natural or manufactured) arrows will make a difference.
Anyway here she is. The 1st pic id of her braced at about 5". The next she is pulled to 22" and the last 2 pics are at 24" showing both sides of the bow.
After looking at these 24" draw pics the string angle at the tips shows I should be able to get another inch or two of draw out of her. I'd love it if she would pull 26" and still hold together.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/yewpaddle001a.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/yewpaddle003a.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/yewpaddle004a.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/yewpaddle005a.jpg)
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I like the reflex you put in your shortie. I was a little intimidated to put heat to mine do to the shortage of yew in these parts. I believe mine came from keenan by way of Stiks. Anyway nice looking stick.
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Keenan gave me this piece last year at the Tenn. Classic. I think that is where Kris got his too. With these short bows you have to flip the tips to get a longer draw or the string will pull off the end or the stacking gets bad. I wish I had flipped these a little more than I did.
Not much yew here in the mountains of NC. Have to import it from Oregon.
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Nice looking bow again Pat.
Where on that bow will you scrap from to improve the tiller and get your extra length. Tiller looks good in those photos so will you just scrape full length or pick a specific area to get what you need. Always looking to learn from those with more experience than me.
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Once the tiller looks good on any bow I just make long scrapes to reduce the weight. The right limb in the bottom pic looks a bit stiff about mid limb so I'll start there probably. I will really just have to wait and see as I go. I have to reduce the weight a bit anyway.
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Maybe you could make a wedge of antler or horn for to the tips to increase the angle at the nock.
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I was in the basement exercising her on the tiller tree to see where I could remove wood to get her weight down a bit when...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/yewpaddlegoesBOOM002.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/yewpaddlegoesBOOM001.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/yewpaddlegoesBOOM004.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/yewpaddlegoesBOOM003.jpg)
I will remove the sinew(save for another project)and do a post mortum when I get over the shock. I have to say I'm not surprised, disappointed yes but not surprised. I guess I was trying to get too much pull for her short length. As you can see, not even 2 thick layers of back sinew will hold a bow together if it is overstressed.
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Bummer Pat. I feel your pain. You had that baby looking really good. As you said she was definitely a shorty. On a good note I know where you can get some more :bigsmyl:
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Ouch, sorry to see that Pat!!
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Bummer pat. Sorry for your loss.
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After thinking about it and studying the break I came to the conclusion that she broke in tension, ripping the sinew backing as she blew. I made sure I use plenty of sinew across the handle area and out the fades and on to the limbs because I know that is a highly stressed area. What I didn't know is I should not have left the handle area thick and I shouldn't have narrowed into the handle. The thick and stiffer handle caused the limb to hinge and break 3 1/2" from the handle on the bottom limb, right on the crown of the back.
At least I've learned what not to do next time. I'm gonna soak the sinew off and save it for the next bow. I've already been thinking about it. Some of the sinew in this bow came from "Elkie" after she rejected it. She is a osage static recurve I made to go elk hunting. And I think I'll make my first atlatl from the good limb. Nothing goes to waste in primitive archery. d;^)
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ouch. that sound can haunt a feller. I think your taking it better than I would.
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I like to look at old posts. Looks like it broke where it was not bending in the mid area. The fades were bending.
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That is a bummer Pat. Lots of work right there.
I might have nothing to do with it, but in my mind, it seems like it would be hard to get the sinew to make a good strong bond to the wood, where it has to run up and over the hold down piece that is running cross wise.
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Carson, two reasons this bow broke...1st-is I narrowed the handle area and that is where it broke and 2nd- I tried to get it to pull to my 26" draw, and that was an inch or two too far. I've used the hold down sinew on a few sinewed backed bows and never had a problem before. Not saying that that wasn't a problem with this bow but I think my other 2 reasons were what made it fail.
I did soak the sinew off of this bow and reused it on another shorty, osage. Like the saying goes...if you ain't breaking them you ain't making them.
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Pat, I thought this all seemed familiar. I didnt realize this was originally from 2012. I remember this from the original post on PA. I was thinking it was the second sinew backed yew shorty that broke on you in a similar fashion...Now I see that is not the case.
Looks like the grain swirl around the knot falling right on the fade, might have been a big contributor. Glad you saved the sinew!
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OUCH sorry about your loss Pat :(