Questions, I am working on a Hackberry and it is starting to take a little set (story of my life) so I was thinking I might flip the tips a bit and try toasting it?
If you flip the tips on a bow do you tiller all the way to the tips? Do you finish the tiller to your weight before you flip them? I don't want to get crazy just a little bend on the ends.
This is my progress so far I'm 42@20 and I'm trying for 50 to 52@28
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c210/coaster500/Hackberry%20Bow%20project%20Oct%202011/Hackberrystave003a.jpg)
i may be wrong here, and others will disagree with me i am sure!
but i have noticed with my own wood( backed and self bows)bows, that when i have them stressed for longer periods( ie- on a tillering stick , so that i can run my gizmo over the limbs, or to take photos of the bow!) that they always seem to take a little bit more set, and a good friend of mine was busting bow after bow-and we narrowed it down to him having them on the tillering stick for a little bit too long.
not criticizing- just an observation.
back to your original question- i know there will be some folk with a heap more knowledge and experience along shortly to give you the answer that you need.
good luck
wayne
Wayne you are probably right. I do have a tendency to leave them on the tree a bit to long. I don't have that bowyer eye yet and I use the Gizmo and paint to help with corrections. I haven't had a bow break yet but I haven't made a straight one either?
How do you use a pressure strip on a self bow. Sorry but I've never heard of a pressure strip before. Is there a thread showing it's use on self bow tips?
Thank you Scott... nothing like a picture :)
One end has about a 1/2 inch and this end about an 1". Alot of it is very close to the tips?
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c210/coaster500/Hackberry%20Bow%20project%20Oct%202011/Hackberrystave004.jpg)
This is the form I cut out this afternoon.... now I need to figure out what to use for a preasure strip?
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c210/coaster500/Hackberry%20Bow%20project%20Oct%202011/Hackberrystave005.jpg)
From my experience I would say your tip are already a bit thin to flip that much. You might go with less bend to prevent a splinter.
It may work like you got it but I wouldn't try it. JMO
I built a hackberry molle and it does real well with heat so a little flip is doable just don't go to far. The belly will toast nicely as well and you should get good results.
Good luck and let us know how it works out.
You can almost bet on that set doubling by the time you get to 28", probably more. I would stop where your at and heat treat the working portion of your limbs evenly over a 2-4" reflex form. Tip flipping will only cause more stress and more set...........for now anyway. ;)
Ok, maybe we will just tiller this one and hope for a bow with out the flip. I'll try messin with the tips on the next one...
One more question? should I use the limb with the most set as the top or bottom limb? Right now the tips end up even when pulled...
Thanks again for all your help...
Tiller it out and use the slighty stiffer limb (one will be)for the bottom, whichever it ends up being.
Will do .... Stiff one it is :)
Well this was the only chunk of lumber I could find for a form. I hope I didn't toast it to much? It wasn't long enough but it was the only "free" game in town. It's raining here so it should rehydrate quickly...
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c210/coaster500/Hackberry%20Bow%20project%20Oct%202011/form.jpg)
Nice. Let her sit that way for 3-4 days and give it several short and easy break in pulls on a very low brace. Basically pretend for a bit you never finish tillered it before you heat treated! If it looks nice slowly work the draw length out and keep an eye on the bend. You will be glad you heat treated that bow. An average length limb takes about an hour to heat treat. Hackberry gets a sweet nutty smell as it darkens under the heat gun.
The bow's not completly tillered yet. It's still a bit on the hi side for me but I'll take it slow.
Pearl, my wife walked into the shop and asked what I was cookin :)
Thanks guys for the help :)
are the tips taking set because you are tillering it a bit "whip ended", or is it taking set in the working portion of the limb, and just being seen in the tips?
i find that if you thin the tips too much( whip tillering) then they will certianbally will take set easily- remember the bow is way narrower up at the tip- and in turn more prone to taking set.
g'luck
wayne
Wayne I thought I left the tips pretty meaty but maybe not enough?
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c210/coaster500/Hackberry%20Bow%20project%20Oct%202011/Hackberrystave004.jpg)
I think it took a little set in the working part and the tips. The last bow I did was a Kentucky Coffee stave and it had thinner tips than this one but it is a much harder wood I think. It took less set than this one. We'll see what we have in three days when I get back from a trip?
One more thing to consider. Heat treating can add a significant amount of draw weight from wood to wood and bow to bow. Keep a keen eye on your thickness, if it gets too thin start narrowing your working portion rather. Hackberry being very soft like it is would be better suited staying a little thicker.
Coaster,
As you finish the tiller, follow fujimo's advice. I've noticed a lot less set in my bows when i stopped admiring from a distance on the tree ;)
I've found once i have it to about 20 inches, it should be bending evenly and require only minor touch-up if any. Ideally you should only have to weaken one or both limbs to come in at draw weight if it's approaching too heavy.
I finally bolted a tillering block to a wall and set up a pulley and scale to pull, and have used a helper to pull and hold for a sec while i rush like a madman running the gizmo over the limbs. The last four inches i visually check while pulling and releasing and finish in the hand.
At this point as well you oughta put about 20 arras through each time you remove wood to help the limbs accept the new tiller. Don't know if you already new that or not ;)
I promise not to spend as much time admiring it though I have more a tendancy to pick it apart than admire it :) I won't do the finish work until this weekend so it should rehydrate by then?
I laid out a Sassafras ELB but couldn't leave the Hackberry alone. It held about 3"s from the toasting when I took it off the form. Too early to do any bending so I decided to work on the grip a bit. I pretty much know which limb is a bit stiffer so.... I wanted to make it ambidextrous. Maybe we'll name it Hackadextrous :) ... I cut a tiny shelf on both sides. I will probably remove a bit more wood from the bottom fade. I don't know how it's going to work but it feels really good in the hand...
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c210/coaster500/Hackberry%20Bow%20project%20Oct%202011/stavetobowcloser003.jpg)
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c210/coaster500/Hackberry%20Bow%20project%20Oct%202011/stavetobowcloser004.jpg)
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c210/coaster500/Hackberry%20Bow%20project%20Oct%202011/stavetobowcloser002.jpg)
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c210/coaster500/Hackberry%20Bow%20project%20Oct%202011/stavetobowcloser005.jpg)
This is what it looked like off the form...
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c210/coaster500/Hackberry%20Bow%20project%20Oct%202011/stavetobowcloser001.jpg)
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c210/coaster500/Hackberry%20Bow%20project%20Oct%202011/stavetobowcloser008.jpg)
looking good!!!
Love that handle profile! That's what i've been shooting for on some of mine, but haven't quite gotten there yet, mine turn out less bulbous in the palm and more flat. I think i need more wood in the handle before shaping (these were board bows).
Lookin good coaster :)
You might let it sit in the laundry room or other humid place to help rehydrate till the weekend.
How dark did you get that belly Ryan? Got any pics of that portion? Hackberry needs a pretty deep, dark treatment. My first was a touch too light and I got more set than I wanted. The second one came out much better with the extra dark tempering from extended time with the gun.
If you heat it again, and you didn't the first time, you may try some crisco on that belly as you heat it to help distribute the heat and keep the top layer from charring while you toast it. Kinda cool too, you can actually see the water vapor bubbling up through the melted fat as you heat it.
Thank Kevin took my time and really tried for the feel thing. I think I took it to the limit without making a weak spot.
Chris this is the toast after I did a bit of sanding yesterday is was darker before. I hope I toasted it enough?
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c210/coaster500/Hackberry%20Bow%20project%20Oct%202011/stavetobowcloser.jpg)
Looking great! Can't wait to see the full draw pics and the final unbraced pics.
Thats a tad light, but thats always better than a tad burnt! Generally speaking I move my heat gun about 1/2" every 2-3 minutes to get a good overlap. Most average length limbs take at least an hour for me to get across. I leave the last 8" alone.
Got back to the Hackberry today and I think I'm pretty much done except the finish stuff... It came in about 54@27 and that's a bit stiff for my but it shoots so good I think I may leave it? I slams a 659 grain arrow like a champ. I almost can't believe how quick it feels. After about 100 plus arrows and an arm that feels like it's going to fall off...
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c210/coaster500/Hackberry%20Bow%20project%20Oct%202011/Hackadexterous001.jpg)
These are the braced and unbraced pics right after shooting. It did not keep the entire reflex but did very well and stayed almost straight. Maybe a 1/2 to 5/8" between the wall and the tip and that is my best attempt at straight so far. All in all I really like the way this bow shoots and it is extremely consistent and accurate....
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c210/coaster500/Hackberry%20Bow%20project%20Oct%202011/Hackadexterous004.jpg)
Thanks all for the help...
I think Hackberry is fast because of its light physical weight. Blackhawk just finished off a stave I gave him and he was also suprised at the quickness. Ryan some of that reflex will come back after a few hours unbraced. Nice job so far.
Looks real good. Learned a lot reading this thread - thanks. Have some hackberry drying now - can't wait to get to it.
Nice....You did good job on that one. I like Hackberry my self. I get mine bending good out to about 20 inches then toast it that seem to work pretty well.
It only took a tiny bit of the reflex back after sitting a bit ( Chris I may not have toasted it enough?) but I couldn't be happier.... It's straight!!!!!! This one really shoots and loves that 659 grain arrow.... I have to say I really like this wood for a bunch of reasons :)
Hackextorus 64"s 54 @27 , is finished ... for now :)
This bow shoots so hard I decided to leave the tips natural... don't want to slow it down (I already added string silencers)... Last piece of leather I had came up a bit small but works for now. I like to build up the back of the handle with carved leather (big old hands) and the string silencers are Alpaca yarn from my wife's basket. The bow had the tiniest bit of resonance at the shot. Now it is dead silent and Alpaca weighs nothing and didn't seem to change the speed?
Nobody here to take full draw picks but here is the final un-braced pics (maybe 150 arrows total?) and a few more.... Not perfect but every bow teaches me a bit more and this one is a shooter!!
Thank you all for the help and keeping me from an experiment that probably would not have gone well....
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c210/coaster500/Hackberry%20Bow%20project%20Oct%202011/Hackadexterous013.jpg)
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c210/coaster500/Hackberry%20Bow%20project%20Oct%202011/Hackadexterous005.jpg)
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c210/coaster500/Hackberry%20Bow%20project%20Oct%202011/Hackadexterous006.jpg)
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c210/coaster500/Hackberry%20Bow%20project%20Oct%202011/Hackadexterous007.jpg)
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c210/coaster500/Hackberry%20Bow%20project%20Oct%202011/Hackadexterous008.jpg)
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c210/coaster500/Hackberry%20Bow%20project%20Oct%202011/Hackadexterous011.jpg)
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c210/coaster500/Hackberry%20Bow%20project%20Oct%202011/Hackadexterous012.jpg)
And to think you were almost ready to hang her upa few weeks ago! Looks very good to me. We wont let you forget the full draw pics either.
:) .... I tried to hold the camera with my toes ? When the wife gets home I'll do it,,,, Kind of want to see it myself...
Thanks again Chris for the help. Sure saves a bunch of good wood :thumbsup:
Nice bow, coaster! I really like that handle.
I guess it's ok:)
Nice looking bow Coaster. I like working with hackberry also.....Dan
My wife came home just long enough to take a video and some pictures... I had to shoot from my knees as the sun ate up the top limb in the brightness... anyway here we go.. I had to cant the bow some to make sure the bottom limb cleared...
The tiller isn't perfect and I could probably have still removed a bit of wood for my 50# target but man it shot so right I was afraid to mess with it anymore?
Click on the picture ... It's a video
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c210/coaster500/Hackberry%20Bow%20project%20Oct%202011/th_Hackadexterous026.jpg) (http://s28.photobucket.com/albums/c210/coaster500/Hackberry%20Bow%20project%20Oct%202011/?action=view¤t=Hackadexterous026.mp4)
Looks very nice to me! Looks like it shoots pretty quick from the video. You do good work Coaster!
Nice looking bow. Better than my first hackberry.
Very nice bow. Is this the one you ahd shortened from 68" or so a few weeks back?
It's come along very very nicely. By the way, orange and white barred feathers is my favorite as well. Just finished fletching a set of arrows with naturally barred wild turkey feathers in white hen and orange cock feathers.
Thank you all for the support and instruction :)
This one is my best to date and feels as fast As any of my longbows but to be fair I don't have any 54# Longbows :) It really hits where I look and looks to be a 20 yard pig sticker... It would be so cool to get in on a winter hog with this bow :)
Yes this is the one I cut down. With my 27" draw just don't see the need for that much length and 64"s is still long!!
Nice Hack. I love to work with it myself. smells nice when heat treating it to.
Thanks Brent... I loved working with this wood and yea it smells great when you cook it :)
I'm looking at your pattern for the limbs. I want to make a pattern or "caul" as some call it. What is the radius of the bends - or is it variable for each bow. I was picturing a pattern shape that could be used for different degrees of bend.
Also,it looks like you have cut shallow dips in the top of your jig. Is that to let the heat circulate underneath?