Some assembly required. Thanks to Pat I get a chance to try making my own arrows. He gave me shoots, feathers, and sinew. This is great on many accounts. One I get a chance to make my own arrows.
Two and most important, I see what I can use.
Three I get to see what a good completed one looks like with a knapped head.
Thanks Pat this is going to be a big help. Now to finish my Osage and these and get to hunting with equipment I made.
Sorry forgot the PICs of all the materials.
Here it is.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/NewArrows.jpg)
Have fun Kelly and post pictures.
let's see them arrows when you get'm done! :archer2:
We saw what you can do under challenging circumstances now lets see what you can do with all the conveniences of home. I have no doubt your new arrows will be just the thing for your first primitive hunt.
Pat I hope so, I am getting the bark off them. I have about 4 done. Once I get that off I will work on the straightening and the questioning.
What kind of wood are those shafts?
thanks
tenbrook
Tenbrook,
Pat told me they were sour wood. I used that stuff as a kid to make my sling shots. Out here in KS now that I know what I am looking for as far as diameter and such I plan on hitting up the willows and plum thickets.
Kelly
Kelly, different shoot material will have different resistance. I have found that maple will be a bit larger in diameter for the same spined arrows and I amagine that willow will be the same.
Tenbrook, the shafts are sourwood(Oxydendron arboreum)shoots. They make excellent arrows and are tough as any shafting I know of.
I have them debarked, I guess now to take of them limb stubs off and get to heating and straitening.
The shaft wrench what size hole do you drill in them?
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/IMG_3217.jpg)
big as your thumb... maybe do a smaller one for nodes.... i think the node one gets a bit of an angle to it , so that it has almost a pad to it...
ill see if i can find a pic of the one i use
-hov
Ok I have not worked on the shafts just yet other then up above. Tomorrow I hope to get some time on the bow, shafts and cutting these out.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/Broadheads.jpg)
I plan on them being about 1 1/8" wide and they can be up to 2" long not to include a 1/2" shank. All this after I get an AM hunt in.
Kelly
Way to go Kelly, Looks like a good project, I have been making my arrows out of red willow a little heavy. My best Arrows so far are made of wild rose canes super easy to straighten. Have fun.. Your friend, Crg
Kelly looks like your gonna have some sweet and sour arras when your done LOL
I have not seen any wild rose around here. Not like the rose hip I would see in Alaska. I don't know what kind of willow it is here, but it grows straight and I have seen lots of it in places.
Lets us see some of your arrows Crgibson thanks for looking and feel free to tell me where I am going wrong.
I hope I have so sweet-n-sour arrows :)
Here is my first attempt at straightening the shafts. Sorry did not do a before. I uses vegetable oil, a candle and I made that wrench out of eucalyptus. I brought back from Iraq, after I carved it down and drilled it then uses linseed to treat it.
Tell me what you think.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/firstattemptatstraightening.jpg)
Should I just cut it off just below them limbs.
Kelly, I believe you want the thicker end to be the point end of the arrow. Least it's like that with cane, so I may be wrong here.. Pat?
Roy Pat told me that, my question is you can't see in the pick but there is crow where limbs were cut off. Should I just cut the shaft below them?
I don't see a crow Kelly:) Your spine will be determined by how thick the shoot is where you decide to cut it out. With cane I pick out the best part with a diameter I think will be right for me. But I also want the nock end to be thinner and the point end not real thick. It's like a judgement call, so cut your shaft out where you think it will be good for your arrows is the best I can tell you. Lay the arrow Pat sent you along side your shoots and get an idea.
Yes, the fat end is the point end. ...and the area where the branches were can be sanded smooth.
Sorry Roy meant crown, my finger's spell check is broken. :)
Thanks Pat that is what I need to know. How does that one look? Should I try to get it straighter or just leave it for now?
Kelly,It looks good from here. Look how straight the arrow I sent you. Not very! Once I mount the point I spin test it and if it spins true it is good to go. As long as the point and nock line up in the same plane the arrow should fly well.
Well that is good to know. I am taking the wife out of town this weekend but when I get back arrows and my bow are going to be made next week, between time in the woods.
I have spooked a lot of deer this year. Been out 4 times and spooked deer on 3 of them. Heck on trip I spooked a deer under my stand in the dark going in. I had planed hunting for the ground that day in big old oak not far from my stand. Spooked turkeys just after sun up. Add brush to it just before I left for the morning was easing out and had a doe under my stand again. :knothead: :banghead: OH well, I was able to get an arrow knocked and get a range on her before she notice. 30yrds; 10yrds to far. Should have eased behind a tree first, just sunk down into the vegetation. It worked for a about a minute before she noticed something out of place. Well I guess my attempt at bone arrow heads will have to wait. :archer:
Ok I got my heads rough cut out. Now I got my truck up and running. Darn rodent built a nest and it caught fire, but was not nothing I couldn't fix. Now I will work on arrows and bows after my hunting season.
Ok about the heads. I used the Magnus just to get the angle of the heads. I don't know what the weight is I will find out I imagine they are around 150grns but not sure.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/roughcutheads.jpg)
Well they will have to do. I need to make me another shaft wrench to straighten them. Mine broke. I also got some flint today too. So my venture down that road should begin.
Look nice Kelly.
Ok got some more shaft straighten up.
I have them next to finished arrow that Pat made and the rest of the crooked ones. I will sand them down to get them smooth and the limb knots off. then (correct me if I am wrong pat) I get them down to about the same diameter after I sand them?
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/abouthalfstraighten.jpg)
Kelly, each one is a little different so you will have to get a feel for them. They usually do come out close in weight and size. Just reduce the diameter of the butt end a bit with the thumb plane. I usually bring them down to 11/32" to 3/8". If you are going to use a field point or store bought arrowhead this size makes it easier to fit.
FYI...the arrow in the picture has a viburnum shaft(notice the opposite leaf/branch scars along the shoot) and not a sourwood shaft(alternate leaf/branch scars). I sent it along to Kelly so he could see how I made arrows. Each shafting, sourwood and viburnum has its own dos and don'ts but their arrows both shoot well.
Did I send you any green shoots? If so, go ahead and scrape off the bark. It is a lot easier green. Most other shoot material will check if you do this right away(at least in my experience)but not sourwood.
Steve Parker(Hillbilly) planes his sourwood shafts down to 5/16" and shoots 45# to 55# bows. BTW, they look like machined shafts! I, personally, prefer the more natural look. They all shoot well if made well!
Looking nice Kelly, fun isn't it? :)
Kelly, looking good. Sometimes I use the ground end for the point and sometimes I use the upper end for the point. Depends on the mood I'm in. The advantage to using the point end on the upper is it allows to keep after it for straightening after the arrow is fletched. That's the trouble end for me. It is hard to straighten that part when fletched. With the point on the bottom end the arrow is tapered nicely for good flight. The disadvantage is not enough meat for the nock end so cut selectively with that in mind. Jawge
Pat not green ones, but I have them all debarked. Pat when I start shaveing them down, I check sand them again, then spine them, correct?
Roy don't know if I would call it fun or not.
George this is my first time so I will stick to Pat's guidance on this batch and hope I get 3 or 4 shooter out of the group.
Kelly, it will be fun when you shoot the first one, I promise:)
That's right Kelly. I have a piece of wood with 5/16", 11/32" and 3/8" hole drilled in it to use as a diameter guage. It helps to keep things similar.
When I spine hardwood shoots I do it to find the stiff side and make the arrow so that stiff side goes against the bow. Generally I don't spine them to a specific spine weight.
yes you def want the big end to be the end you haft the point too. check out this page for some i did recently :)
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,28563.0.html
you might have to register to see the pics if your not already a member
That's fine workmanship! I would be proud to have made arrows as nice as these! I trust you're g'na use tem this year for a buck or two?
Making Your Own Arrows is a Great Downtime Activity, and a Great Thing to Learn!! Looks like You have some Fine Components and some Awsome Teachers!! Enjoy!!
Thanks for the encouragement, plan on using them to hunt if I can get some finished. I have 3 craved down to 3/8. I am using a knife and it is going slow.
Pat how do you use a thumb plane to do it?
Trad-man that one completed arrow is Pat B made it, if I can get a deer to stay around long enough.
Ok I have have about 1/2 dozen shaved down and sanded to about 3/8".
Now I spin them to look for the stiff side. Since I don't have a spin tester I will just us a ruler and 2lbs of weight.
I have the plans for one but that is a project for another day.
Ok Kelly, that's close enough. Ship them to me now and I'll finish them up for my BBO:) LOL
Kelly, place one end on a counter top and hold the other end in one hand while pressing down in the middle with the other hand. Rotate and try all 4 sides. You should be able to feel which side is the stiffest. This isn't brain surgery! d;^)
Okay pat will do.
Roy now how am i too learn if I send you them and you finish them off and break them in for me. I guess you would have to send me some of your cane arrow to hold me over. :goldtooth:
Never mind Kelly, I don't like them now:) LMAO
Ok Roy if that is your final answer. I have the determined the stiff side. I guess now select the best and straightest part for the arrow, and cut them down. Let me know if that is not the next step.
Sounds like a plan Kelly.
Hi from down under in Oz Kelly G. Glad to see your back in one piece and making great trad stuff still. Hows that twisted son of a -- bow you were building came along?
curious, will Rosehip work for shafts Kelly? If so I have a ditch full of them ;) .
Hi Kelly,
Saw your post pop up Looks like your doing a good job on your arrows and points. Here's a few I have made and some pix you asked for. The two on the far left red osier dogwood and the rest are wild rose The rose are way easier to straighten compered to the dogwood Must be the pithy centers All selfnocks. The rose arrows I have to straighten often never did seal any of them very good only used light oil and bees wax. So Kelly keep a look out for the rose and red willow for some other arrow wood options. Keep up the good work.
Your friend Chuck
(http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff371/enterprise401/IMG_0331.jpg)
(http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff371/enterprise401/IMG_0302.jpg)
(http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff371/enterprise401/IMG_0337.jpg)
Bigbob glad to see you in here too. I owe you gents down under an update. I just finished up that bow. Put afloppy rest and leather handle wrap. I have too get the picks up on ozbow for you gents.
AKDan IWould think rose hip would work. I was not making my owne stuff when I was in AK. I like to eat rose hip fruite myself. I would trh them. Use an open ended 3/8INCH wrench and see if you find them long big enough to try. This is my first try and pat gave me the shafts.
Chuck thanks for the pics. Iam going to ha e to google that red willow so Ill know if that is what i have here.
If I'm not mistaken...what folks refer to as red willow is actually red osier dogwood. I could be wrong though.
Rosehips are the fruit that grows on all roses. Some have big hips(fruit) and others have small hips. The cane of the rose plant is what you use for arrows.
Rose hips are high in vitanin C!
Yep Pat it is and they grow all over AK and very large the fruit. But if remember they grow in single stems. But all over up there. I thought they called it rose hip up there because it was about hip hight.
Ok I have finished my first ever arrow. Thanks Pat. I really can't thank you enough for the help and materials you have give me.
Ok it is not the greatest but it is my first so I hope I can only go up from here.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/1starrowcomplete.jpg)
29" shaft, grains of arrow and point who knows, turkey feathers for the fetching, and sinew to reinforce all the weak points.
I did not have any pine pitch so I just used the craft style hot melt.
now the killing end
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/1starrowcompleteBroadhead.jpg)
and the steering end
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/1starrowcompleteFletching.jpg)
and once I wrapped the sinew and pulled it back under itself I put a thin layer of tbIII over all of them.
Hope I think I really just got luck that it flies halfway straight.
Very nice Kelly..... ^5 Dude.. Roy
Awsome Kelly
Nice lookin' arras, Kelly. Glad you aren't wasting any time now you're home.
Outstanding work! Nice job, Kelley. Pat that was a kind and generous gesture. Jawge
Can somebody enlighten me on the use of a "shaft wrench?" I'm curious about this process, and have a feeling it will lead to more used up space in the garage and less POC arrows purchased.
It's just a short thin narrow tool with a hole cut in it a little bigger than the diameter of your arrow shaft. They are made from wood, bone, antler, etc. You slide it down over the arrow shaft and use it to put torque on the shaft where you want to straighten the shaft. It concentrates the pressure in one spot compared to using your hands.
Pat, can you post a picture of yours?
Thanks Roy. Thats a good idea.
and really works well if the wood is heated so it is almost to hot to touch. You feel the wood give and stretch, but if it is cold wood and you fell it give well in my limited experience it means you just broke it in that spot. Don't ask me how I know.
Ok 6 of them ready to shoot. I will see how they fly tomorrow and if they fly well I will, just use watered down TBIII to seal them, and take them hunting.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/6completed.jpg)
Now to make some small game arrows, but that will wait a bit.
Looking good Kelly let us know when you down some game with 'em.
Nice Kelly..
Nicely done Kelly. If you find one or two of these arrows don't fly well, flip them over so the cock feather is in towards the bow. In many cases this will fix them. The ones that still don't shoot well make fluflus out of them.
Good job Kelly. Now make meat,, Crg
Ok I shoot them and man they fly straight. I may have one that does not fly as good. The first time I tried them, I was not concentrating on aiming and was trying to watch them fly. So my group was not a group.
I settled down and put four arrows touching feathers, they were a little high and left. I twisted my string tighter and raised my brace, and there they were. Hitting just a little high at 10 yards.
For those who have wanted to do this but it seems very complicated, I tell you it can be done.
It takes some time and I just stuck with one step at at time. Debark, heat and straighten. Choose the best part and cut to length.
cut in nocks and slots for heads, glue in heads cut feathers glue or wrap on. Then wrap with sinew, I do need to put a finish on them. I think I am going to use a watered down TBIII
Well listen to you Kelly! LOL, your hooked on primitive arrows now Bro:)
I'm so pleased. Our boy has made his bow and arrows. What's next? That big ole Kansas buck? I wouldn't be surprised!
Well done Kelly. Lets keep it a secret how well these "primitive" arrows shoot. Don't want to croud the field! d;^)
Now that our leaves are almost down I've been scouting some new sourwood hunting grounds. Hope to get a good harvest this fall and winter.
I'll get you started on some hill cane after I harvest it a bit later on.
Nicely done sir. Makes me wonder what I can find in our Yellowstone River bottoms that I could use to try and make some arrows. Time for research I guess...
Nathan, find out what the indiginous(sp) folks used. Possibly red osier dogwood or hazelnut or even serviceberry(saskatoon)
I have heard that the Crow used wild plum and choke cherry (I used to teach on the reservation years ago) and I think that Walt or someone mentioned serviceberry and hazel some time ago so I will check out those and osier or other dogwood species availability. Now I just have to go find my handy dandy field guide and go see where I can get ahold of these things. Sounds like a good winter project.
Thanks for the inspiration Kelly.
Nathan,
Also keep a lookout for Mock Orange. A bushy shrub (genus Philadelphus) you should have it growing in Billings and Kelly it might grow in Riley.
Good Luck with arrow making, Chuck
Very nice. I made my own feather burner a few weeks ago using a battery charger some wood and screws and bent up a piece of .035 stainless TIG welding wire. Just form the wire and place the arrow in the jig and turn it on and watch the smoke fly!
Alright Kelly! Can't wait to see some pics, hint, hint.
-Jeremy :coffee:
Pat I really don't care if a big one or a little one comes under the tree. I passed a small fork horn with my glass bow but with this set up any deer that I can make a clean kill with will be a trophy for sure.
Roy when I started this it all seemed so overwhelming, then is seen what an old fart from PA can do and thought I bet I am at least that smart so I bet I can do it. :)
Nate give it a whirl I would work on them as I watched TV with the family in the evening.