Post by: KellyG on January 05, 2011, 01:00:00 AM
Ok here we go my first series of questions. I will split it first, and make two staves. This will be done with 2 hand axes (I will leap frog them) and a hand sledge. The pic be low is the narrow end. If all goes to plan will end up with 2 2.5" staves at that end.
Once I split it I will post pics of it and the start and end.
This pick is my plan of attack. the arrows are the ring I think in need to chase. I think if it splits nice for me I will use stave 2 it seems to have a less crown thus I think easier to chase. the sharper crown will be set aside for later.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/theend-1.jpg)
Thanks,
Kelly
Post by: Dean Marlow on January 05, 2011, 06:48:00 AM
Post by: sulphur on January 05, 2011, 07:26:00 AM
Post by: KellyG on January 05, 2011, 07:53:00 AM
Thanks,
Kelly
Post by: DVSHUNTER on January 05, 2011, 07:58:00 AM
having said that, for your first try, I would make sure I got at least one bow from that stave. Remember, I've got a killer osage spot when you get home. ;-)
Post by: hova on January 05, 2011, 08:32:00 AM
wish i would have thought of it , but i picked up a luggage scale the other day on the cheap , shoulda grabbed an extra for ya...
-hov
Post by: scrub-buster on January 05, 2011, 08:47:00 AM
Post by: hova on January 05, 2011, 08:51:00 AM
be careful. shrapnel sucks weather its from a bow or anything else...
you get that sucker split yet?
-hov
Post by: okie64 on January 05, 2011, 08:51:00 AM
Post by: KellyG on January 05, 2011, 09:30:00 AM
okie64 I am going to go simple, but need to look a little more on layout. I only need 45-50# @28". I don't think I want to tackle a round belly just yet. A four in handle area that I will wrap with jutted 550 cord. Next time I see a pair of boot getting thrown out I will cut them up for the rest and go floppy.
Width of the limbs undecided until I read some builds and get in the TTB and look. I don't want to over build it.
Hova,
I will split it this weekend if the weather holds out.
Next question
would an oil base paint be ok to seal the back of one of the staves after I take the sap wood off? Should I split it then take the sap wood off or take the sap wood off then split? Does it even matter. I know I need to take it off. I was advised that in the letter on the stave.
I feel like a kid with a toy that he has always wanted and know he has it he just does not want the new toy ware off.
Thank again,
Kelly
Post by: Stiks-n-Strings on January 05, 2011, 09:47:00 AM
I would get the sap wood off first. After that you need tyo see what kind of grain you got and decide from there wether to split or not. One thing I learned about osage is it don't always split like we think it's gonna and you end up losing material that could of have been implimented into a good bow design.
Also when and if you split start at the narrow end of your stave and split toward the wide end. This will keep you from splitting off a wedge of osage that goes wide at the end you start your split and ends up as wide as a toothpick up on the other end. Trust me on this I know from experience.
Good luck with it and take it slow Patience is the #1 tool you should have in your tool bag before starting a bow.
Stiks
Post by: Pat B on January 05, 2011, 10:49:00 AM
Also, by removing the bark and sapwood you familiarize yourself with the wood you are using. By the time you get to the heartwood you know a lot about the wood and that can help you make decissions as you proceed with your bow(stave).
Post by: hova on January 05, 2011, 11:25:00 AM
i am no expert , but judging from how deep the ring you want is , you could probably just get the sap off and seal the ends. i had a piece of unknown wood split though , so see what someone else thinks about this.
anyways , once you get the bark off put a pic up and see what ya think. i call for a desert buildalong
-hov
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 05, 2011, 12:07:00 PM
Get it down to any one of those first rings and seal it. Then it will be fine until you get ready to build out of it.
I split a stave that was even more narrow than this one for the 2 kids longbows that I made for my nephew's Christmas presents this year and they both turned out great. I could have left them at 40+ pounds if I wanted to because there was more than enough material to work with, but I had to get them down to 20lb. an under for them to be able to shoot.
Your main objective is to get at least one good bow out of that stave, 2 bows is a luxury. So make sure you keep enough of the good part for your main bow, then if there's enough left to build another one you can adapt the style of the bow to fit the remainder of the stave.
One Trad Gang member got 2 full sized longbows and a billet out of just 1 of my staves, and he spliced the billet with a piece of yew he had left over from another build and made a hybrid. He said they all turned out great, but he's been at it for years so he knew exactly what he needed to do to the stave.
Just take your time and ask questions before you tear into it if your in doubt about where to go next. Just stop and ask before disaster strikes.
Post by: KellyG on January 05, 2011, 12:42:00 PM
Cant waite.
Post by: broketooth on January 05, 2011, 12:58:00 PM
Post by: KellyG on January 05, 2011, 01:51:00 PM
Post by: don s on January 05, 2011, 04:27:00 PM
don
Post by: Osagetree on January 05, 2011, 04:39:00 PM
You stated "If all goes well",,, two staves @ 2 1/2" at the top (bark) or at your chosen ring???? You'll loose some width when splitting as the wood can tear rather than break apart like a short peice of firewood does. A bandsaw would reduce that loss somewhat.... Scoring a line in the whitewood before splitting might help insure two staves? Removing the whitewood is good advice in this case as well....
I like to clamp my staves down about at the height of my solorplex. Arms sretched out but not locked in. I use my legs (at about a one step stance forward)and my body weight to draw the knife; rather than using my arm strength. The arms just keep me where I want to be on the blade angle and kilter.
If the stave is cured well,,,,, wait till you hit the hardwood!!!!
That is why I'll say this,,, and admit I have only read one selfbow book....
Don't put too much thinking in to taking off the whitewood. I go at it like the house is on fire! Bark first then the whitewood. Your chosen ring is pretty deep, so hitting into a ring or three while removing the bark and whitewood wont get you in trouble. To me the trick is; dont try and take too deep of a bite. This tears off more wood (sometimes) than you need and can tear into your chosen ring. Do more slicing than tearing once you get to seeing the yellerwood! From there, you'll have a few rings you can practice on.
I can't wait to see more!!!!
Post by: Pat B on January 05, 2011, 05:16:00 PM
Post by: okie64 on January 05, 2011, 05:26:00 PM
Post by: Pat B on January 05, 2011, 07:37:00 PM
Also try using the draw knife with the bevel up and also bevel down. To me the bevel down gives me more controll. I do use it with the bevel up when I want to remove lots of wood or bark at once.
Post by: J. Holden on January 05, 2011, 07:41:00 PM
-Jeremy :coffee:
P.S. I'll see if I can come up with a band saw for you? You want it sent to the same address? Just kidding! :laughing:
Post by: KellyG on January 05, 2011, 10:01:00 PM
Thanks I will have to print this off and pin it up where I can see it.
Osage,
the ring I want would be 3.5" once I get it down to there. Once closer to there I will know more from the advice I have be getting. I will post pics of every thing I can.
Jeremy Thanks you are a true pal.
thanks all,
Kelly
Post by: KellyG on January 07, 2011, 02:54:00 AM
I did read a little in TBB and their it said that a dull knife was best and the wood need to be well seasoned. I also made a few passes with the spoke shave and I will need to learn how to adjust it, for it worked more like a scraper.
I need to post pics of the test area and of the whole stave.
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 07, 2011, 08:53:00 AM
I don't know about the pushing with a draw knife? It seems to me that you wouldn't want to do that when you start working on the rings because you won't be able to watch your work closely enough when the knife gets out in front of you. But you have a lot of sapwood to get off before you worry about that.
I got myself a spoke shave and a 1" block plane on it's way to me and should be here anytime....maybe today? I'm going to put it to use as soon as the box arrives, so I'll mess around with it and maybe I can give you some tips on using it as well?
I'm actually in the middle of a bow build myself so I'll be working right along side ya except a couple 1,000 miles away. ;)
Post by: KellyG on January 07, 2011, 09:47:00 AM
Keep the advise coming because I will keep the questions coming.
Thanks,
Kelly
Post by: KellyG on January 07, 2011, 01:56:00 PM
I learned that rings dip and dive also. Pin knots are easy to just cut right off. How fare down should I start really trying not to cut them off. I tried tonight but I kept cutting them off. I still need to get some pic taken so I can get them up.
Oh spoke shave have no luck with it at all.
Thanks Kelly
Post by: Pat B on January 07, 2011, 02:22:00 PM
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 07, 2011, 02:38:00 PM
Kelly- It sounds like from your description that you don't have a bench or table to strap that stave to in order to work on it?
You said you were sitting on it and trying to shave the sapwood off? Man, you need something solid to secure that stave to, makes wood removal 100 times easier.
Post by: hova on January 07, 2011, 03:15:00 PM
-hov
Post by: Jim Dahlberg on January 07, 2011, 04:10:00 PM
Post by: razorback on January 07, 2011, 04:49:00 PM
Don't know if you have fixed you clamping issues yet but I just saw this device on another site and figured you might be able to get someone over there to put something together like it. Go to the motor pool or a machine shop and challenge them to make something like it. If you play your cards right and use simple psychology on them you might get a great fix. You are risking serious splinter issues doing it the way you are. :scared:
http://www.stavepress.com/
Post by: hova on January 07, 2011, 05:08:00 PM
you need to show us a pic of your r&r area so we know what you are working with...
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 07, 2011, 05:27:00 PM
Wanna know what my bow building bench consists of?
An 8ft. 2x4 screwed to my work bench with 3" wood screws, with a piece under the end sticking out for a leg and it's about belly high on me. It looks like a big "L" hanging off my work bench.
Then I use a ratchet strap and a "V" block to snug my stave down and that's it. Nothing fancy about it, but it works great!
That's really all you need Kelly. A ratchet strap and something to strap the stave to.
Post by: hova on January 07, 2011, 06:12:00 PM
ill get some pictures of my drawings , you'll see what i mean...
kelly: you should look at some shaving horse plans. that would be a good use for all those stumps around not worthy of bow making...
-hov
Post by: Red Tailed Hawk on January 07, 2011, 08:13:00 PM
Post by: J. Holden on January 07, 2011, 08:38:00 PM
-Jeremy :coffee:
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 07, 2011, 08:59:00 PM
Post by: KellyG on January 07, 2011, 09:23:00 PM
Pat B I should be leaving island around Pin knots know while removing the sap wood I will start, them little things throw me off. No big Knot to deal with yet.
Thanks,
Kelly
Post by: Pat B on January 07, 2011, 10:44:00 PM
You can work the sapwood rings down around the pins every other ring you go down but do one at a time. Working around knots and pics can litterally make or break a bow. Seems so minute but can cause trouble later.
I have gotten to a point where I feel pretty comfortable "hogging" sapwood off a stave and chasing a heartwood ring(on osage) but when it comes to knots and pins I take it slow and easy.
Post by: KellyG on January 08, 2011, 12:10:00 AM
I will get some good pics later to day.
Thanks kelly
Post by: don s on January 08, 2011, 06:24:00 PM
don
Post by: KellyG on January 08, 2011, 10:28:00 PM
Today I will spend some time trying to learn more about the wood. I plan on using a maker to put a circle around the pin knots. I have not had very good luck avoiding them yet. I think I am getting the feel for when I get close to the changing grain. Need to work on getting her to one grain on the back for practice I have a few to practice with until I get to the big one. Today I will be happy with getting all the sap wood off. I need to hit the PX and see what they may have to seal it. If nothing else I hope they have white glue so I can at least mix it with water. The paints over here I oil based and smells like kerosene, I don't want to use that unless I really have to.
Once I get the sap wood of I will get PICs up. I am have some camera issues. I did not do anything last night on it.
Thank,
Kelly
Post by: KellyG on January 09, 2011, 11:45:00 AM
In this image is the area was testing in my room, the left is what I need to make the whole log look like when done and down to the ring I want.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/oneringleftmoreringsright.jpg)
work area, I went with two straps.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/Workarea.jpg)
From my point of view
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/Workareanarrowend.jpg)
Most of it done (sap wood removal that is)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/sapewoodremoval.jpg)
Last little bit of sap wood
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/wideendsapwood.jpg)
Pin knot, and more pin knots, I used a marker to mark them so I could try and avoid them it helped.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/knots3.jpg)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/knots2.jpg)
Post by: KellyG on January 09, 2011, 11:46:00 AM
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/sapwoodoffexceptknots.jpg)
Here is the wide end or bottom as the tree grows
I have several cracks along the back but the deep ones like this almost form a line to the other end. I think I would use them to split it.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/wideend-1.jpg)
well what are you waiting for HELP!
thanks
Kelly
Post by: broketooth on January 09, 2011, 11:57:00 AM
Post by: KellyG on January 09, 2011, 12:33:00 PM
Post by: John Scifres on January 09, 2011, 12:47:00 PM
Post by: J. Holden on January 09, 2011, 02:20:00 PM
-Jeremy :coffee:
P.S. I'll be mailing that article tomorrow (Mon.)
Post by: red hill on January 09, 2011, 03:09:00 PM
Stan
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 09, 2011, 04:28:00 PM
I don't seem to have the problems with pin knots that you are having? I just work my way over them until the sapwood is removed and don't really worry too much about them until I start chasing the ring I want. Then I go slow from one end to the other and it may take me 2 days to chase the ring down the entire length of the stave. While doing that.....when I get to a knot or pin knot I slowly crawl around it with my draw knife being careful not to gouge into it and rip a chunk of wood off deep into my ring. Then I come back later and scrape around them with a fillet knife.
I know it's tough working down your first one and it can be a challenge because you reach many points where you just kinda scratch your head and think to yourself, "Where do I go from here?"
It's ok though, your doing great! :campfire:
It would be nice if you had access to a skill saw or a sawzall. Then you could score the stave straight down the middle like Jon said and when you split it, it will follow that line you scored. I've done that many times.
However, I know your limited in what tools you have available so you just have to make due with what you have.
Just remember, they didn't have power tools back in the old days......at least that's what I keep telling myself. :rolleyes:
Keep up the good work!
Post by: KellyG on January 09, 2011, 10:03:00 PM
Jeremy thanks for the encoragement.
Red hill yep following his and others on here thanks
Semo hunter Sawzall I did just see one of those. I will draw a line on the bake I intend to follow and put up pics. Before I cut her.
Thanks,
Kelly
Post by: Pat B on January 10, 2011, 12:32:00 AM
Post by: KellyG on January 10, 2011, 04:26:00 AM
Post by: KellyG on January 11, 2011, 09:39:00 AM
this is where I started my sawzall. I did not got deep but scored the back about 18" from the end before stopping.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/Aftersawzall.jpg)
I did take the camp axe and the lager one and tested the first know and pounded it. It started to spilt toward the next I stopped and wend to the next before the crack reached it and could run around it. Then pounded into it until it started to crack towards the third and moved to it. After It started to split, I used the axes to connect the cracks I started with the ones on each end.
This image show one of the knots and my split.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/ScoredKnot.jpg)
Once I was satisfied I would be able to walk the cracks I started with two wedges in the center as PatB suggested. (I would have started at one end but I am trainable)
Starting in the center.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/Centersplit.jpg)
Starting to open up.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/Startingtoopenup.jpg)
Here the splinter that don't want to split. I put the axe/wedge on them they can decide to run into the log so I just cut them in half before they get a chance.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/putwedgeonthese.jpg)
oops what is this now we have two.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/twostaves.jpg)
Post by: KellyG on January 11, 2011, 09:40:00 AM
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/Me.jpg)
Now here is my delima, do I play with the one on the left only two of the small knots in one limb but high crown on the rings, or the one on the right with a flater ring but 7 knots down its back.
I hope most of the knots are removed with the upper rings but I don't know. The knots will slow me down a little.
This Pic was before the split but after the sawzall it shows the rings though.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/IMG_0015.jpg)
So what do yall think,
Kelly
Post by: KellyG on January 11, 2011, 09:45:00 AM
Almost forgot. I can only find oil based Paint it is thick and smells like kerosene should I use it to seal the one I am not working on.
I was also worried about a finish (I know I aint no where near a bow, but I just can run down a pick this stuff up,) and anyway the motor SGT told me he had about 5 gallons of linseed oil, so linseed finish it will be.
Thank and proud to serve,
Kelly
Post by: George Tsoukalas on January 11, 2011, 09:58:00 AM
http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/osage.html
Post by: Pat B on January 11, 2011, 10:01:00 AM
I would go with the worse of the two staves to start with. If you take your time with it(like I know you will) it will teach you way more than the other will. Concentrate on making the best bow you can from it and you will be way ahead of the game when it comes to the better one.
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 11, 2011, 10:03:00 AM
I think you did real good splitting that stave with what you had on hand, I'm impressed to say the least.
I personally would start on the bigger half which would be the one on the left in your pic.
Unless of course you want to do a practice run with the one on the right and save the good half for your intended perfect bow when you get more experience? That's a personal decision you will have to make and if you aren't comfortable in your skill level yet, by all means do a practice bow on the smaller stave on the right and save the other one for later. That might be the best option.
Don't worry though, even if they both turn out to be trash or you screw up because I've got plenty of Osage left and I'll just get you another one to work on.
The linseed oil would work fine I'm sure. You can also boil it to thicken it up to make a sort of Laquer out of, but I'm not familiar with the process of doing it the right way.
I'm sure somebody here has done that before with linseed oil and knows exactly how to work with it.
Once again........Great Job Kelly! :thumbsup: :clapper:
Post by: broketooth on January 11, 2011, 10:08:00 AM
Post by: KellyG on January 11, 2011, 10:49:00 AM
I will get the left one sealed tomorrow. I am still not sure it will be the easier of the too. The one on the rigt has less wood a flatter grain, just more of the little knots.
Jawge, I am limited on the tools I got a draw knife a spoke shave, a hunting knife, wood file, and a multi tool. Thanks for your link I have browsed it before but will have to refresh my memory on it.
Ruddy,
It is dark here so it is time to stop, step back and listen to the wood and see if it tells me where the bow is hiden. I have 9+ months and this and my long bow are what keep me out of trouble.
Pat and SEMO,
Thanks for the advise and encouragement.
Til my next updat,
Kelly
Post by: Jim Dahlberg on January 11, 2011, 11:04:00 AM
Waves are much more of a challenge but make awesome bows.
Post by: KellyG on January 11, 2011, 12:07:00 PM
there are lots of slight dips as I found out removing the sap wood. I am going for the first thick ring, all the other above are very thin. I will try to follow one of them just to practice.
Thanks agian,
Kelly
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 11, 2011, 12:16:00 PM
You'll do fine, get em sealed and relax a little until you feel like working on it some more. You don't have to do it all right now just cause we are anxiously waiting.......lol
Go at your own pace and you will do a much better job than if your rushed on it. Sometimes I will walk away from a stave for a few days until I get the urge to start on it again. If you ever get frustrated at any point, just walk away from it cause that's usually when you make mistakes.
Post by: KellyG on January 11, 2011, 12:30:00 PM
For now I am on the other end I am chopping at the bit to remove wood, and force myself to walk away and come back in stages. I am hoping those knots will come off as I go deeper I have cut right thru most of them removing the sapt wood, I was finally able to figure it out and was able to build up the island you she in the pics.
Thanks,
Kelly
Post by: red hill on January 11, 2011, 12:40:00 PM
Good luck,
Stan
Post by: scrub-buster on January 11, 2011, 12:44:00 PM
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 11, 2011, 01:55:00 PM
Frustration isn't the only thing that will make you screw up. I've been out in the garage till 1am before and so tired my eyes were getting heavy. Basically a zombie at the bow bench, but I wanted to reach a certain point before I quit for the night.
Then come back the next morning only to find that I had cut through the ring I wanted to keep! :banghead:
I ended up costing myself more work than if I had just stopped when I got tired.
Never drive the bow bench unless your well rested. :biglaugh:
Don't drive the bow bench drunk either!
I don't drink anymore so that's not a problem for me. :)
Post by: hova on January 11, 2011, 04:09:00 PM
at that kind of a pace , you would have an awesome character bow.
call 'er lucky seven
-hov
Post by: J. Holden on January 11, 2011, 08:23:00 PM
-Jeremy :coffee:
Post by: George Tsoukalas on January 11, 2011, 08:49:00 PM
Post by: Stiks-n-Strings on January 11, 2011, 09:45:00 PM
But you do need take your time,LOL
Looking good Kelly. Getting about time to shut the swap thread down and do some name drawing. :bigsmyl:
Post by: KellyG on January 12, 2011, 12:07:00 AM
Now here is the question on the knots. I take them down like an onion one ring at a time top ring on down like the rest of the bow right?
I mean I can stop and work on them as I go, down a few rings, stop and take the knots down.
They worry me the most as you can tell.
Thanks,
Kelly
Post by: Pat B on January 12, 2011, 12:24:00 AM
Post by: Stiks-n-Strings on January 12, 2011, 10:18:00 AM
Post by: KellyG on January 12, 2011, 01:15:00 PM
Ok got the twin sealed.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/sealed.jpg)
Now for knots.
Prep and tools (who needs a vise)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/prepandtools.jpg)
I am doing this know before I find out I am wrong. If I am right then I will hog off some wood to get to my ring and you learn something. If I am wrong the mentors here slap me around a little and then tell me how to fix it know and you learn something.
The first pic is of the knot in question you see another off to the left I am not worried it is on the side and I just one to focus on one. The two knots form a saddle and that poses a problem itself. You can also see a few layer of rings or grain. We ain't making pretty cabinets or furniture so want will make that pretty grain go bye, bye. I hope this is how.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/pinknot1.jpg)
I went to the left (I am left handed it was easiest) then the right. The layer of ring will make a foot ball shape and you just move closer and closer with the tip of a knife, scraper or corner of the draw knife (tried them all). One layer at a time. As you can see in front heading toward the next knot the splinter pile up. I come from the other knots back and they go bye, bye. This way I don't muscle thru the knot. (what is that you thought I was not worried about that knot, for it was on the edge. Please hold questions til the end.)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/pinknot4.jpg)
Ok the next two are of removing the side leaving the knot and the next ring, never go over the top always from the side. (don't ask how I know, told you to hold your questions)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/pinknot2.jpg)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/pinknot3.jpg)
Now the next on just show the knot with a few more rings to go. you can see them in the top of the Pic. (the 3 whitish lines)
Now I am down to the ring I wanted to be at for this test run.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/pinknot6.jpg)
See no whitish lines. If you could see it from the side that little guy stands up about a mm.
Ok now for something I think is going on. I have read about and be told about the chattering of the bladed going from early growth to late growth. I think I know what causes it. Imagine your blade is a car going on a nice smooth new road. you look off the side and see a monster game animal that gets your blood a pumping. Next thing you know that verum verum sound of the shoulder things designed to scare the living tar out of ya, bring you back from chasing that game animal, to the task of driving the car and getting off the shoulder. Well the noise is caused by vibrations of the tire on them things.
Late wood smooth, early wood not thus chattering.
OK now for the question and critics of my attempts. Please be honest and I know there is more than one way to skin the cat. So please let me know what works for you so I and other may learn.
thanks,
Kelly
Post by: hova on January 12, 2011, 01:21:00 PM
other people may have a different or better explanation. i make sure my stuff is sharp , and that im not pressing too hard...
-hov
Post by: broketooth on January 12, 2011, 01:29:00 PM
Post by: John Scifres on January 12, 2011, 02:21:00 PM
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 12, 2011, 02:36:00 PM
You gotta get all that white wood off before you can even see what your working with. You may have something totally different underneath? Those cracks in the sapwood will also disappear when you get down to the yellow wood....or you may need to take a couple of the rings off to get below them. I just did one exactly like it yesterday and removed 3 rings to get below the sapwood cracks. Nice looking wood underneath and several of the pin knots disappeared in the process.
Post by: KellyG on January 12, 2011, 02:41:00 PM
ruddy thanks
Thanks John that was my test run at a know while I had plenty of wood I will dig in and get to my ring. I have 9 of those little buggers down the middle.
I don't want to stear any other wrong so input is great.
Kelly
Post by: KellyG on January 12, 2011, 02:45:00 PM
Yep that was the last little bit I left around the knots. I hope they go. I was just trying to practice on them now before I screw it up. I will dig in and remove some wood now.
Thanks,
kelly
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 12, 2011, 02:53:00 PM
It's good that your going easy on it.
I just don't get too excited about the pin knots until I get all the sapwood off and get closer to my target ring.
Listen to these other guys though cause they have been at it longer than me.
If I would have had more time before I sent that stave out, the sapwood would have already been gone before you got it. Although, it's good experience for you that will help later on when you cut some of your own.
Post by: Pat B on January 12, 2011, 03:04:00 PM
Post by: KellyG on January 12, 2011, 04:17:00 PM
I am glad The sap wood was on, trail by fire baby. I did do a little more work go about a 1/3 down to the first heart wood ring. I will try to follow it the lenght of the bow. It is not the one I want but a dry run. I also used the edge of the draw knife (right and Left or corner for lack of a better word.
I think I may have started at the wrong end the narrow end or the top. Every time I got the other way I get big spliters up with very little pressure with bevel side down.
drawing towards me bevel is up and I am cutting/scrapping it more.
Thanks again,
Kelly
Post by: KellyG on January 13, 2011, 01:04:00 PM
Here it is almost to one ring.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/gettingsomewoodoffnow.jpg)
Tomorrow night I will get that last 20".
How's it look so far?
Thanks Kelly
Post by: Pat B on January 13, 2011, 01:08:00 PM
Once you get to the heartwood you will deffinately feel and hear the difference in the early/late woods when you work with your draw knife.
Post by: scrub-buster on January 13, 2011, 01:49:00 PM
Post by: KellyG on January 13, 2011, 06:38:00 PM
Post by: Dale Hajas on January 13, 2011, 07:09:00 PM
One of my favorite tools is a planer blade that I use to follow rings after a draw knife. You'll find stuff like that on yer own as you do more. Some guys use a pc of glass which actually may work well around your pin knots.
Good luck Sir!!
Post by: red hill on January 13, 2011, 07:32:00 PM
:thumbsup:
Stan
Post by: hova on January 13, 2011, 09:37:00 PM
maybe next year someone else will have to 0fficiate it , cause you couldnt be a participant and an officiatOR ...
anyway ,looks awesome , great job
-hov
Post by: KellyG on January 14, 2011, 02:21:00 PM
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/testring.jpg)
Now I have started to get down to the ring above the one I wanted. You can also see a pin knot that I have left a buildup of wood around.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/Oneringtogo.jpg)
I only got about a third of the way down the stave on this ring. I will finish up tomorrow. getting to the ring. now to bring it down to the last ring I put up the drawknife and scrap or sand down to the my ring; correct?
I also put more super glue in it. I am truly worried about the very dry humidity even with the recent rains it seem the crack grow every day. The one I pained the back on seems good but I left it out side for 2 days and just brought it in. I may have to look into a humidifier. The shower as suggest would be good but I am afraid it would not be there when I returned to get it.
I have been thinking about the design and I think I am going for the same nn as my long bow so I can use it's string. Long and sleek narrow limbs and 45-50# @27".
They are cutting down some old eucalyptus and some have this reddish brown or burgundy color I am think about getting a small pieces for overlays. If I cut some and split it I will lay it with the Osage to see how it looks with it.
thanks for looking,
Kelly
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 14, 2011, 03:39:00 PM
I must have missed that part.
Otherwise, great work! Your doing just fine.
Post by: broketooth on January 14, 2011, 04:06:00 PM
Post by: KellyG on January 14, 2011, 09:59:00 PM
Kelly
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 14, 2011, 10:04:00 PM
Post by: KellyG on January 14, 2011, 10:47:00 PM
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/SupergluedCrack.jpg)
How is that ruddy, does it help?
Kelly
Post by: KellyG on January 14, 2011, 10:52:00 PM
If not I will fill with saw dust and glue. I have a little ways to go. I wanted to work that fist big ring just under the fat one. I may would have to measure the narrow end and see but I am sure I would ahve enough wood to to use the next or even the one under it also.
Thanks,
Kelly
Post by: Pat B on January 14, 2011, 11:13:00 PM
Looking at the last pic of the back you appear to be taking out small "chunks" of wood as you go down the back. If you work down to the early ring with a draw knife and remove the early wood with a scraper you'll get a smoother surface on the to be back ring which will be more durable.
Post by: KellyG on January 14, 2011, 11:55:00 PM
I want know if the checks are a problem until I lay out the bow, got it. More are not coming in I just thank they are getting longer.
The pic with the check has a knot just to the left. That is part of the Island of wood around it and that is why it looks wavy. With the draw knif I get long curls of pretty yellow wood if I use bevel up, flip it bevel down and run it on the edge of a ring and it will lift up that that edge. I will get some pics of both if I can.
Kelly
Post by: Pat B on January 15, 2011, 12:25:00 AM
Post by: KellyG on January 15, 2011, 12:35:00 AM
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/befordrawknif.jpg)
See the little curl I hope that is what I want.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/Bevelup.jpg)
Since I was just starting on that ring of late growth it is a small shaving. But here it is beside one I took off last night once you get thru the late stuff and can get a bite under it.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/shaveingsfrombevelup.jpg)
Same big splinter with back (of bow if it stayed on) all late wood.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/shaveinglategrowth.jpg)
and now the belly of the same splinter with early growth clinging on.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/shaveingwithearlygrowthklingingtolategrowth.jpg)
Now for bevel down. I am pushing towards a knot just hard enough to lift the edge of the grain, I will do will move the knife left or right to lift up the whole edge as needed. Then just brake them off by lifting the knife up, it brakes at the upper ring. I then I move to the one above it, and walk up the to the top. I DO NOT DO THE TOP MOST RING. You will just cut the knot right off before you know it. Dont ask how I know just trust me. You have to get out a smaller bald and scarp around the knot.
Here is the PIC of the bevel down going in to a edge of the ring. I did have to back out once started and move just left or right to get the whole edge. The splitters should only be an inch or so I am just trying to get rid of the island of wood I left around the knot .
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/IMG_0059.jpg)
It takes longer to explain and show than it really takes.
Thanks Kelly
Post by: broketooth on January 15, 2011, 04:31:00 AM
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 15, 2011, 08:25:00 AM
I found that the spoke shave works great for getting close to your target ring, and the depth of the blade can be set to take off as little as you want to. It's also really good at keeping the surface nice and smooth by working from side to side on the stave as you work your way slowly down the length of the stave.
When I'm using my spoke shave I can actually see the rings coming off one by one.
Post by: KellyG on January 15, 2011, 08:49:00 AM
Semo,
I have be walking the rings up the stave so to speak. Since I use ratchet straps and on that box. I would have to move the stave a few time each pass. I work down a few rings on the end and walk them back. That way I only have to remove the straps a few time.
I had just bought that spoke shave just before come here and I think I need to get the blade sharpened up it only sits on the wood no matter how much it sticking out.
Thanks I will see once the rains stops and it warms up about building a wooden vise that I could clap/bolt to a table. That way on the next on I can run the lenght with each grain.
Thanks agian,
Kelly
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 15, 2011, 09:00:00 AM
The spoke shave will allow you to start at one end pushing away from you and work your way back to the strap. Then I turn it around and work the other direction still pushing away while I work my down to the other end of the stave.
I can see a video is in order here. I'll put something together for you to watch so you can see how well this spoke shave will work for you. It seems complicated at first, but once you get the hang of it, get your blade depth set right, and get a feel for how to glide it along letting the tool do the work.....you will love it.
A video speaks so many words and is much easier to understand that trying to explain what I mean by typing it out.
I'll get that done today and send you some links to it.
I know you have one and with the few tools that you have at your disposal, the spoke shave is as valuable as the draw knife and doesn't work you nearly as hard. It also leaves a nice smooth surface on the stave when your done.
Post by: KellyG on January 15, 2011, 09:33:00 AM
Thanks that would be great.
Kelly
Post by: Pat B on January 15, 2011, 10:31:00 AM
Kelly, be careful prying up under rings that you don't tear the ring below it. Don't ask how I know that! d;^)
Post by: hova on January 15, 2011, 10:38:00 AM
and yeh ,watch pulling up on any wood....lool...
Post by: ranger 3 on January 15, 2011, 10:44:00 AM
Post by: KellyG on January 15, 2011, 11:07:00 AM
Hova once SEMO_HUNTER teaches me how to use it. I will show you what one is.
Ranger 3 I have heard the scissors thing before I am going to have to go and see if we have any that would not be missed for a little while.
Thanks for the advise all I will try each as I can. For now I have a stave straped down and this is my shaving time. I need to get it down to that last ring above the one I am shooting for. If I do I will get pics up of the areas.
Kelly
Post by: Pat B on January 15, 2011, 12:16:00 PM
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 15, 2011, 01:01:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Pat B:I think we have all been there a time or two? :knothead:
Kelly, be careful prying up under rings that you don't tear the ring below it. Don't ask how I know that! d;^)
I'm converting the videos as I'm writing this and I'll put them together with Windows Movie Maker. Then after that it's uploaded to my Youtube Channel.
I may have a link for you as soon as tonight?
It won't be anything fancy, but just my little "How To" of using a spoke shave.
Since I've gotten used to it and know how to use it, it's now become a valuable tool in my arsenal of bow building. I have also found that after sapwood removal I can shave the back of the bow nearly down to the ring that I'm shooting for. Removing rings quick at first then slowing way down when I get close. Then the last little bit of soft brown wood I start to scrape until I'm there. There's less chance of gouging into your ring with the spoke shave than with a draw knife, but you also have to be mindful of knots. I don't worry so much about the pin knots until I'm on the ring I intend to keep, but if you hit a bigger knot just right you can still screw up your ring.
I have found that if I just work everything down, even the tops of the pin knots until I'm close to my targeted ring, then leave that ring up on the edges of the pin knots it works out real well for me. I haven't had any major problems doing that so far, but the edges are a different story. You have to either remove the knot entirely by going inside them, or go to the outside of them and leave them in. There is no in between on this step.
Don't ask me how I know that.
!["[dntthnk]"]("graemlins/dntthnk.gif" "\"\"")
Post by: KellyG on January 15, 2011, 04:22:00 PM
Mean while
I removed a lot more wood, tonight. I will be finding a scraper tomorrow and bring it down to a ring. I maybe using the ring under the on I wanted. I don't know what happened but I was following a ring then a twist in the wood and I may be going down one more ring than I wanted. I want know for sure until I start follow the next. If is was two rings above I am good If I was one ring then I will be going one ring down.
Kelly
Post by: ber643 on January 15, 2011, 05:59:00 PM
Post by: KellyG on January 16, 2011, 09:51:00 AM
I thought I had somehow just got thru my ring and was going to have to go to the next.
I started scraping and got to the point and it was my ring not a make on it at that point.
Well once I get the rest of these two rings off I will get some PIC up for you to see.
tool report
Spoke shave blade good scraper for small areas, Size makes it hard to see the blade.
Draw knife will work as a scraper, I tried on area I was sure I was planning on cutting off. I think it may be a little more likely to take too much off if you get relaxed and drop your angel.
Hunting knife rounded blade near the point good for getting in small depressions and between saddles of close Pin knots.
Multi tool/pocket knife without a serrated blade,
Good for going around and over knots scraping or small tight areas.
Scissors well that is the best thing next to sliced bread. You put on some leather gloves and scrap, scrap and scrap a way. The longer blade can be flimsy if you are haveing to do fine work, but it really get the shaving pileing up. Get you a pair that have a screw and take it out now you have two.
Use all the above at about 90 degrees to the wood you are wishing to scrap.
Kelly
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 16, 2011, 10:41:00 AM
This will give you something to chew on until I get the next one finished and it will show the actual shaving of a stave process with the spoke shave.
It takes a long time to covert a video and then put it together in movie form, then some more time to wait for it to upload to youtube.
Please bear with me, I should have the next one ready in an hour or so.
Part 1- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln91kPV2WZo
Part 2- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bClutZgLM4Y
Post by: KellyG on January 16, 2011, 03:46:00 PM
Here I am pushing way from me and to the newly exposed ring I am chasing.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/scraping.jpg)
Here I am pulling toward me and away from the newly exposed ring. I like pushing away better; pulling tends to make a sharp change from one ring to the next.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/scissor.jpg)
Here is the smooth transition I got by pushing the scrapper away from me. Two rings on the right are going bye bye. At the left edge that is just little around a knot.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/feathering.jpg)
Ok this next Pic is of me working on the outer most ring but not the one above the one I am chasing. I add a little more pressure to get the wood coming off.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/Lotsofpressure.jpg)
Now I am working on the edge of the ring that is just above the one I am chasing. I use shorter strokes and less pressure. Notice the difference in shaveings.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/lesspressure.jpg)
I did super glue the checks they are smaller, but not gone. After the glue dries on my gizmo I will make the center of the bow and work on a design or layout.
I want the length and weight to be the same as my viper so I can use it's string and arrows.
We shall see.
thanks,
Kelly
Post by: KellyG on January 16, 2011, 03:48:00 PM
Post by: broketooth on January 16, 2011, 03:49:00 PM
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 16, 2011, 04:10:00 PM
Here's the last one of 3 and it's just basically Stave Shavin' with some relaxing background music.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii6kEUjYDpY
Post by: KellyG on January 17, 2011, 06:16:00 AM
Those are great clips. I know why the spokeshave was not working for me it was not sharp. I had hit it with my smiths diamond system but did not put a razors edge. I will fix that. Thanks for the shout out in the video and the videos them selves. I hope it helps others.
One of my Soldiers is from just south of you near Bellcity.
I have her down to one ring. Should I start taking some off the belly. I did get most of the center layed out on the back. There is an ole knot that blocks one end.
If I am shooting for 45# @28" and around 68" NN would 1.25" limbes be wide enough form fade to mid limb then straight taper form there?
Thanks and God Bless,
Kelly
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 17, 2011, 08:55:00 AM
I do know this, whatever pleases you can work......some ideas and designs work better than others and that's where I fall short with my limited knowledge.
When you get the stave down to the ring you intend to stop on then you can start on the belly. Get everything off that you don't need for the tillering process. Just don't go too far!
And remember to leave some for a handle!!!
Don't ask me how I know this. :rolleyes:
I mark a centerline now and measure 4" each direction from center. That will give me a full 8" of stave for a handle/arrow shelf area to work with. Then shave outward from those marks toward the ends where your limb tips will be.
Keep up the good work.
Post by: Pat B on January 17, 2011, 09:01:00 AM
1 1/4" to 1 3/8" at the fades and out 6" to 8" before tapering to the tips. Either way will work. Don't shape your handle yet. Leave the handle area and tips wide so you can make string allignment corrections later.
Post by: KellyG on January 17, 2011, 10:57:00 AM
I am just planning on glueing on the shelf for now but dont know I will still mark off 8" then see what I got after I get some wood off. I wont be at my location for a few days so when I get back I will get some wood flying and some pics up.
Thank and God Bless,
Kelly
Post by: J. Holden on January 17, 2011, 06:10:00 PM
-Jeremy :coffee:
Post by: don s on January 18, 2011, 01:56:00 AM
don
Post by: KellyG on January 18, 2011, 08:13:00 AM
I should not be away long, I am where I needed to be and I hope to be able to work on it some tomorrow.
Don S,
Heck thanks to you I am going this fast, and your draw knife. The belly does not worry me to much.
I need to remove one big knot on the belly that sticks out and get my center line. Once that is done I will start removing wood. on the limbs.
The question is is 5/8 to thin. I pland on drawing a line down both sides and remove wood to that. If i remember on the hickory I took the limbs down to 5/8.
God Bless,
Kelly
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 18, 2011, 09:13:00 AM
Post by: Pat B on January 18, 2011, 09:26:00 AM
Post by: va on January 18, 2011, 11:42:00 AM
You are my hero. Love the work in progress pics.
As for rough limb thickness - 5/8 should be good. I usually start way too thick and spend lots of time and energy and frustration scraping and praying the silly thing will bend. At 5/8 you will feel a little floor-tiller bend and start to see progress on the tiller.
My 2cents (I can make change if all you have is a nickel) is to slap together a tiller tree so you can step back a see the whole bow bend. You could clamp something to the picnic table and pull toward yourself along the surface of the table. That way you will see the bow and could compare limbs based on the edges of the table.
Do not pull harder than you have to to see some bend. Again - this is where i get too anxious to see progress and i end up over-stressing the limbs.
be safe
va
Post by: camoman on January 18, 2011, 01:49:00 PM
Post by: Pat B on January 18, 2011, 03:35:00 PM
Post by: DVSHUNTER on January 18, 2011, 06:14:00 PM
looking good bud. Don't forget to follow the laterial grain of the stave when you layout the centerline. You will have to follow it even if it makes some crazy waves otherwise the bow could crack there. As always, don't ask me how I know. I usually just use my eye and freehand a centerline down my staves. It's pretty easy with the right light. Your 1¼in. dimension is fine for you. If it was me I wouldn't make the bow that long, but for your first osage it will give you some room for tillering issues. I used to make my bows with roughly those dimensions only shorter.
Post by: Osagetree on January 19, 2011, 06:13:00 AM
example
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/Osagetree/1tiller-1.jpg)
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 19, 2011, 08:08:00 AM
I really need to make myself one of those. I have a block of wood screwed into the wall of my garage with more screws down the wall set at even increments to hold my tillering string while I step back and look at it. It's crude, but it works.
Post by: KellyG on January 19, 2011, 08:46:00 AM
Pat,
Not in a rush was just wanting to get an ideal of how much wood not to take off. I thought I remembered going down to 5/8 somewhere and thought I would see what all my mentors had to say. I don't mind painting by the numbers but don't mind just putting the paint to the paper and see what happens. Most of the time it looks like a preschooler has been finger painting but once in a while you can tell what is suppose to be.
Camoman,
you never know what challenges you are up to till you try them. It looks worse than it really is, besides once you see yeller wood your pain and suffering goes out the window.
DVSHUNTER,
I will use the modified gizmo to get the center line once I get some bell wood off. I have an knot in the belly that sticks out where one of the limbs will be once it is gone I will have over and inch of wood left on the belly in that area. It will be in a limbs middle 3rd somewhere depending on where I put the handle. once I have it gone then I can truly lay out the bow. I will leave and extra long handle are so I can shift it up or down the bow.
Osagetree,
I have one at the house but it does me a lot of good here. I just had to move rooms and my new one has all plywood walls. I see some pencil makes and a tillering tree going on one of the walls.
Va,
I just want a longer bow for now. I will try the shorter ones later. Once I get back and I arm all my neighbor's children and grand children with bow. I will try some shorter bows and god willing try hickory core sinewed and skinned backed bow with a horn belly. I must learn to roll over before I can crawl and eventually run.
Semo,
It will not be a terribly heavy bow if I hit my weight of 45#. Keeping the limbs longer should help, cause if I make it two light I can always make it shorter.
Thank again for all the insight, I really do appreciate it,
Kelly
Post by: Pat B on January 19, 2011, 08:54:00 AM
Just because it is simple doesn't mean it is easy.
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 19, 2011, 09:43:00 AM
I think I'll stay out of this for awhile and just sit back and watch. Too much advice coming at you all at once and it's just confusing you.
What do they say about too many cooks?
Bottom line Kelly, it's your picture that your painting and nobody can tell you what colors to use. It has to be your own creation however you want it to look, and taking the proper steps to get there.
You may even want to take a break from it for a few days and let your brain recoup just a bit?
Good luck, your doing great.
SEMO
Post by: Pat B on January 19, 2011, 10:11:00 AM
When you build a glass lam bow most of the brain work has already been done, in the engineering and designing the wood and glass lams, creating the lams and lam stacks to achieve the tiller profile, draw length and draw weight you are looking for. Then the "paint by numbers" comes into play as you assemble the bow and cut it to shape. Many guys that build glass lam bows do all of this themselves but I would venture to say that lots just buy a kit and put it together. That is what I did a few years back and failed at it miserably...even before I ever strung the bow.
I'm not putting either method or bow building or type down but trying to say if you think that there is too much work involved in building a selfbow then maybe a glass lam bow is the route you should take...but be prepared for thoughtful work there too.
Now, have I dug my hole deep enough yet! d;^)
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 19, 2011, 10:34:00 AM
Post by: hova on January 19, 2011, 10:45:00 AM
kelly , lookin good bro .
i like to work on a bow for a couple days , then step away from it for a couple days. i like to go over things in my head a lot , and this allows me to get to know my wood (pun intended) , and decide where to go.
-hov
Post by: KellyG on January 19, 2011, 11:06:00 AM
SEMO heck don't leave me hanging now. I want all he advice I can get, that way I can try different things and see what will work. I have already started sharpening my spoke shave blade for the next stave.
Besides I have very thick skin and know from a couple of years of PM relationships with my wife that the written word can be taken way to many ways. Don't ask me how I know.
Thanks and God Bless,
Kelly
P.S. I should have it down to 3/8 on both limbs then and laid out. I have a few pics of the one limb down working other now. Right now my frustration is not the wood but my ratchet straps (once you thin one side they don't hold as well).
Post by: hova on January 19, 2011, 11:39:00 AM
you might want to try using some of that standing deadwood to make a shaving horse. im sure one or two of those stumps , and a chainsaw would pretty much put you in business. i know you have a hatchet , so that might take a while , but like you said , ya got 9months at least. might want to do a little prep work to make things easier on yourself down the road (ie : once your stave is coming to look more like a bow , youre going to want a solid lock on your stave.).
if thats out of the question , you might try affixing it to something like a 2x4 with rope at the ends. its extremely crude , but thats how im straightening some wood i cut a while back. this option would allow you to still use your straps too...
i know you got duct tape over there...
-hov
Post by: KellyG on January 19, 2011, 12:44:00 PM
I moved rooms this one allows my big box to slide more. Plus it came with chair with wheels. I will bring over the metal folding chair, it does not roll when I use my legs to push on the box when I hit a tough spot.
I should be starting tillering by the end of this weekend or sooner. Once that happens the box will be plenty the force need is not as much on a rasp as a draw knife.
Thanks for the suggestion, I had thought about a shaving horse out of left over 2x4 here. I decide not to build it for I would want to take it back.
Thanks
Kelly
Post by: KellyG on January 19, 2011, 12:46:00 PM
Here is the narrow limb at 3/4" Draw knife maybe half an hour.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/Narrowlimb3-8th.jpg)
Here is the wide limb at 3/4" Draw knife and over an hour maybe 2. It did not want to give up any wood. That and the twisted limb at the end.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/widelimbbelly3-8th.jpg)
Now a close up of the wide end and the twist. This pic does not show it but the last 6" or so almost got 90degrees.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/Widelimb3-8thcloseup.jpg)
I am done for tonight. Now that I have also gotten ride of the troublesome knot that was sticking out the side of the belly I can start laying out. That is tomorrow check list, find center of bow length wise. Then decide what is excess length, and find center of future handle and make it. Then lay out limbs and trim the fat. She might even bend then.
Thanks, God bless and Happy building,
Kelly
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 19, 2011, 03:20:00 PM
That spoke shave works wonders on the belly for thinning down till you get within rasping distance. I'm actualy building the limbs for my take down Osage longbow with Osage/Rosewood riser. I'm hoping to have them bolted to the riser by tomorrow. I've got one limb chased down to the ring I want and working on the other one now. I also got both flats cut where it will bolt onto the riser. So I'm kinda working right along with ya.
Post by: KellyG on January 19, 2011, 03:55:00 PM
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 19, 2011, 04:08:00 PM
Not near as fancy as some guys on here make, but I guarantee there ain't another one like it anywhere that's for sure. lol
Post by: Jim Dahlberg on January 19, 2011, 05:21:00 PM
Post by: ber643 on January 20, 2011, 08:38:00 AM
KellyG, you are coming along fine IMO, and have an info filled thread here - so thanks to you too.
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 20, 2011, 09:22:00 AM
When I first got my spoke shave I thought this thing is a piece of junk and I wasted my money on it, but I was bound and determined to learn how to use it. Boy I'm sure glad I did cause now it makes my bow building go so much easier and faster. It's now an important tool in my arsenal and I wish I would have bought one a year ago.
There's something to be said about the old ways and a tool like this one has stood the test of time being used for 100's of years, so I figured that it must be worth my time to learn how to use it and it sure was worth my time.
My own father was pretty impressed by how well it works, as he has tried to use planes and shaves in the past and never had much luck with them. He likes to watch me while I'm working on a bow and being a wood worker himself it's a compliment to me when I can impress him.
Post by: KellyG on January 20, 2011, 09:49:00 AM
I am working on getting mine shape. The Harbor Frieght one I got was about 5 buck. It was duller than a butter knife. I worked it on 400 grit but the right and left corners are not there yet. I am also working it on a coarse, medium and fine stone. The paper is the last step. I shows me where the stones are not hitting.
I hope to have it ready for the next stave. I know I have a week or more work on this one but hey got to plan for the future.
Thanks Ber643,
I am trying to make is so it makes sence for those like me who have never done this. I hope that with the help of the experts here it has become a good tool and resorce for those wanting to try. I even go back and edit some of my stuff. If it does not make sense to me later.
Thanks again Kelly
Post by: KellyG on January 20, 2011, 09:51:00 AM
I have a bike with a flat now, once I get settled into my new room I will try and figure out a better holding system.
Thanks,
Kelly
Post by: Stiks-n-Strings on January 20, 2011, 02:29:00 PM
Post by: KellyG on January 20, 2011, 02:46:00 PM
I got some pulleys to day and mounted my tree. I was starting to put upsome line in pencil and a level and though maybe tape would be better. I could cut it 1" wide and have to only put it put ever other inch since the top and bottoms would be an Inch apart. Plus if I have to move agian it will make cleaning up a lot simpler, just pull the tap of the wall. So tomarrow I will try it and see.
I got the center maked down the bow and that was about it.
Kelly
Post by: ber643 on January 20, 2011, 07:58:00 PM
Post by: broketooth on January 20, 2011, 08:10:00 PM
Post by: KellyG on January 21, 2011, 02:33:00 AM
I will be back at her tonight, will try to get pics up of my tree once it is done. The try and get her layed out. I got my center line I will post pics of that proccess also I hope.
Kelly
Post by: KellyG on January 21, 2011, 01:54:00 PM
1 the modified gizmo is too long in one section to follow the contour of the limb. I have a shorter one in my office so tomorrow I will use it on the wavier limb.
2 a knot on the edge of the limb . Should I just leave it full with there? must admit I am scratching my head on this one. Is before mid limb. each
Each limb is 32.5" long from the handle I have not marked fades yet. I am shoot for 69" ttt and 68 ntn and was planning on going 1.25" from the handle to about 18" then straight taper to .5". This knot is only about 12.75" out to the center of the knot. The limb is 1.5" wide. I guess I just leave it that wide there and 1.25" before and after.
Here is the knot in question. I know the line not centered this is also one of the areas my gizmo was too long for. The yellow lines it how I think I should handle this. Am I right?
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/knot-1.jpg)
Here is better look of the area where you can see the curve in the wood my gizmo jumps over.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/notcentered.jpg)
Now top and side view of a modified gizmo. ( I would prefer on that had wooden pegs verses nails) Heck you could even put nuts in it where the nail holes area and screw in two pencils when getting the center line. Then just unscrew them and use for tillering. Why didn't I think of that sooner.
Top
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/Gizmotopview.jpg)
Side
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/Gizmosideview.jpg)
Well your input is need on that screwy knot.
Thanks,
Kelly
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 21, 2011, 02:02:00 PM
I made this mistake once already by cutting straight through the middle of a knot just like that one. Everything seemed fine until after about the 200th shot and a fret began to pull up right at the edge of the knot I cut through. That was my very first self bow and I didn't know any better. I was heartbroke to say the least.
Don't do anything more with it until we get some other guys to jump in here and offer their advice.
But that's just my opinon, there may be others to consider.
Post by: John Scifres on January 21, 2011, 02:06:00 PM
I think your yellow marks are correct around the knot on the edge but I don't see that much grain on the other side of the limb. Most small knots don't "push" the grain enough to have a bulge on both sides.
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 21, 2011, 02:09:00 PM
Just follow those tiny little lines as they "Flow" around the knot and do your best NOT to cut through any. Follow them gently around the knot as if it were water flowing around a rock in a stream. Some guys like those in a longbow because they add character. No 2 are exactly alike and each one is unique to itself. That's the beauty of a self bow. Just take your time and follow the little river that flows the length of the stave. Tapering as you go and try to follow the little lines in the grain as much as possible. I would use my rasp for this and not a knife or draw knife.
Again......just my opinion and I'm sure there are others.
Post by: KellyG on January 21, 2011, 02:37:00 PM
Semo_hunter,
thanks I will us my file once I get to that spot. I will only be trying to smooth it out if I have reasoned corretly on this.
Thanks both of you for your quick responce.
Kelly
Post by: Pat B on January 21, 2011, 03:59:00 PM
Post by: broketooth on January 21, 2011, 06:26:00 PM
Post by: KellyG on January 22, 2011, 12:25:00 AM
I did run it back and forth over the bow and got the same result I just think it is to long to redgiester it unit the pencil has passed.
Thanks Ruddy,
Either you did time in the Corps or been hanging around Bernie a lot. Once a Marine always a marine right Bernie. Thanks for the complements and support Ruddy.
Kelly
Post by: KellyG on January 22, 2011, 02:49:00 PM
I have a few pic to share of course, but first let me explain how I did the actual drawing of the lay out. After I went over center with a much smaller gizmo, I then grabbed a measuring tape (insure it is flexible, stiff ones sit off the bow; and will be a problem). I put a pencil mark on the 2", 2 5/8" and 3 1/4" marks. I use the 2" because it give a little to hold over the side and the metal ends are hard to keep in place (you will see it in minute. I stared at the 18" mark and move back every 1" or so marking the width. I kept the 2 5/8" make on my center line and marked the wood at the 2" and 3 1/4" to give me the 1 1/4" limbs.
See like this, just keep moving towards the handle.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/measuringwidth.jpg)
Then marked the tips 1/4 on each side of center. while there I put my tape on the 18" mark and the tip mark and wrapped the excess over the end to hold it in place. I made sure my tape was on both marks and started at the 18" mark holding the tape with my index, middle and ring finger, marked the taper by drawing a line using the tape as my guide. you have to take it slow and walk you finger down the tape, only mark in front of your 3 finger hold the tape down or it will push in our curl up. It will make for a curved or wavy line, don't ask me how I know. Also keep tension on the tape without drawing hand while walking you 3 finger to the next spot. All of this is harder to explain than it is to do.
Both of these pictures show me lining it up and wrapping the tape over the end to hold with my leg.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/tapertotip2.jpg)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/tapertotip.jpg)
Better view of the end
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/endviewoftaper.jpg)
Now me holding tension with my drawing hand, cant show my 3 fingers walking because they are holding the camera silly.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/Connectingdots.jpg)
will notice in that pic the dots that make the width of the bow. they go from the 18" mark to the handle. I just put the tape on two and draw the line and moved to the next two all the way to the handle. If the wood is curvy keep your dots close if it is straighter open them up. Not so much you can't us one hand to keep tension enough to draw your line. You can see one line done in that pic. Go to the other end and repeat.
Hope this made since. This is how I did it and until the ones who have done it a bunch tell me a better way it is how I will do it again. I hope they don't tell me it is all wrong and I have to do it over, but until I get a thumbs up I ain't taking any wood off.
Oh almost forgot the knots yes more than one now.
This is the one that I was asking about you see my intended solution of just making the limb wider. If I just cut it out I would be down to 1" there and no character. So it stays.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/knot1.jpg)
Here my line cut right thru the center, so more flare on this limb. Again around it. I will dig this one out a little the wood is very soft in this one.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/knot2.jpg)
Ok that is enough, If I forgot something let me know if I need to add a pic of something let me know. I did not do a whole layout because my lines are to light to show up except the center one.
Thanks,
Kelly
Post by: broketooth on January 22, 2011, 03:04:00 PM
Post by: hova on January 22, 2011, 03:45:00 PM
nice legs too!!!
:thumbsup: :campfire: :eek: :eek: :eek:
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 22, 2011, 05:24:00 PM
Exactly....1.....before Hova jumped on it. ;)
Looks good to me Kelly.
The stave that is.....not the legs. :goldtooth:
Ruddy is right about leaving too much wood around the knot. No need to go way around, just leave enough that it can't start a spinter peeling into the knot area. That's how most wood self bows bite the dust, it all starts and ends with a knot.
Follow the grain around the knot and leave a good 1/4" or so on each side if you can and I think they may be ok. There will be a stiff spot there anyway because knots don't bend, there's no getting around that. Your doing it right by tracing a line around the knot while following the grain, then work it don't easy to your pencil marks so you know where to stop.
Post by: J. Holden on January 22, 2011, 09:07:00 PM
-Jeremy :coffee:
Post by: Roy from Pa on January 22, 2011, 09:49:00 PM
Post by: KellyG on January 23, 2011, 03:32:00 AM
Well I guess it is time to make it look more like a bow and get the sides down a little. will get some pic up of my progress late if my connection is not flaking out.
Thanks for looking, God Bless, and Happy building,
Kelly
Post by: ber643 on January 23, 2011, 05:27:00 AM
Oh yeh, I think Ruddy has just been living here in "Marine Country" for about 20 years a'ready and been well exposed - LOL
Post by: yukon chuck on January 23, 2011, 10:42:00 AM
Oh yeah...nice legs,
Post by: KellyG on January 23, 2011, 12:09:00 PM
Yukon I am trying dont take my attempts as harden fact either. I have never done any of this. I am just trying to make it so all of my question, problems and solution are here for other newbies like me.
Now on with the show.
Ok today I took wood off the sides and got crooked stick. I still have to take some wood off but need some answers to some important questions first.
1) The knotty end tapers from 7/8" belly to my 1 1/4". I have 7/8" thickness from the belly to back on the limbs so I still have wood. the question here is doe I reduce the thickness more and make my limbs as wide as the belly? Or stop here and reprofile the back down to 1"? which seems narrow. Or is a reverse trap ok with Osage?
2) We will see the twist and bends here in a bit with the pics I have posted. To heat and get it somewhat straight I will think I will use a piece of 4x4 and us metal bands like pat did but without the clamps. Screw a rounded block of wood at a bend heat and bend as straight as I can, and 550 cord and lash it down.
The twist I think will be easier, sandwich it between 2x4s. one set at the tip and the other about the beginning of the twist heat and untwist.
Any brain storming is good. I make you really appreciate our ancestors and how they did it with stones and no vice.
Well let's take a look shall we. Oh tools used here drawknife, file and toothbrush (to clean teeth with, of the file that is). Draw knife was used to get to about 1/8" to my lines then file down.
Here is the knotty end
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/knottyendprofileBack.jpg)
closer view of its tip area
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/knottyendtip.jpg)
The more troublesome knot, with wood removed from it.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/somewoodofftheknot.jpg)
this shows how the knot is over hanging a little
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/sideprofileofknot.jpg)
and the other knot I just show how I just went straight instead of leave wood on the none knot side; like I had drawn. See I do listen. I even did it to both knots.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/knotshaped.jpg)
Now for the twisted end
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/Twistedend.jpg)
twisted end this one is really trapped the narrow (the narrow side is the back, wide the belly)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/twistedendreversstrapping.jpg)
my thickness at this point on both ends
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/Thickness.jpg)
more to come in a sec so hold on for commits I have a few more Pics
Post by: DVSHUNTER on January 23, 2011, 12:24:00 PM
Post by: hova on January 23, 2011, 12:35:00 PM
looking good on that stave kel . you plan on using an abrams as a heat source for straightening ?
-hov
Post by: KellyG on January 23, 2011, 12:47:00 PM
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/wholestave.jpg)
Ok I am ready to learn Ole masters of the yellow wood, hear my plea and give me your sage and wise advise. Pretty Please
Ha no leg this time.
Thanks,
Kelly
Post by: KellyG on January 23, 2011, 12:51:00 PM
Post by: Pat B on January 23, 2011, 02:28:00 PM
At this point when you put the bow on the tiller tree you may have to clamp it in place. With the twist in the limbs and the tips not lined up yet the stave will twist on the tree. Once you get to low brace height you won't need to clamp it for the rest of the tillering.
Post by: broketooth on January 23, 2011, 02:35:00 PM
Post by: ber643 on January 23, 2011, 03:00:00 PM
Post by: hova on January 23, 2011, 03:29:00 PM
-hov
Post by: John Scifres on January 23, 2011, 06:43:00 PM
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 23, 2011, 08:16:00 PM
Course I don't have a heat gun either, so steam is my only option and so far it's worked like a champ.
Post by: broketooth on January 23, 2011, 08:24:00 PM
Post by: hova on January 23, 2011, 10:09:00 PM
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 23, 2011, 10:16:00 PM
I'll do that next time I straighten a stave, and it's real easy if you have a fish cooker (propane) and a big kettle.
Post by: KellyG on January 24, 2011, 01:02:00 AM
No heat gun.
If I have to use heat at some point I was either just going to wait till summer and set it out side. LOL or look at making and alcohol burner, or even try to see if a little space heater worked.
Steam was also an option. I have been eyeing some old paint cans to boil water in.
Well I will get more wood off and see if tillering will help.
SEMO_HUNTER,
After your excellent spoke shave video, you know everyone is going to want you to do videos from now one. You might as well video you next build from start to finish.
Do it like a cooking show. Here we have a tree. start to cut the tree. next thing you are on the felled tree. now you do x, next thing we know you have pulled along out from under the counter that has x done. You know how the cooking shows do it. Put uncooked food in set timer and pull a done dish out of the next oven. Heck maybe we should start a TV show that does just that. Hit up the bowyers around the country making bows there specialty.
I would hit the Osage whisper first then move down to the self bowyer master just south west of Ashville. would have to hit AL to get an exclusive on the Gizmo and its many uses.
make my way across country hitting every bowyer and there style. End Up at Dicks sooner or later. Get in some good arrow smiting too. I bet at least 25000 would tune in each week. To see where we stopped and who we visited. Maybe even take a few of the shows creation out on a little walk in the fields.
Oh there I go day dreaming again.
Thanks all for the input and Advise,
Post by: Erick Shumway on January 24, 2011, 05:24:00 AM
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 24, 2011, 07:43:00 AM
That twist will have to be taken out at some point. I don't know what you have at your disposal over there, but I know it's not very much? If there's any way you can get ahold of a big kettle and some way to boil water in it, your in business. If not, I really don't know what else to do?
You will have to tiller it down some before you can do that though. It needs to be fairly close to a bow before steaming, it will take less time and be much easier to get the results you want.
The one I did yesterday was just above the stage of getting much flex in the limbs. Maybe 1-2" of flex in each limb and I steam to get the bow in shape before I go any further. Mainly because I'm still a little new at this and it's easier for me to tiller if the tips are lined up. I'm not a master at it like Pat or Osage Whisperer, because I've only been at this for less than a year.
On the other hand, I have had to straighten every single bow that I've built, so I reckon I am fairly good at straightening these buggers?
I sure know my dad watches me with amazement. :D
At first I was paranoid because he kept staring at me, as it turns out he was just really enthralled with watching me work a bow stave over.
Post by: ber643 on January 24, 2011, 07:58:00 AM
BTW, re heating and bending: Don't know if I am mis-remembering, or what, but seems like, when I was into this a lot (about 2 years back), a great deal was said by those in the know on here about steam for green wood and heat for dry (aged) wood, (or my memory may have it backwards), when I was doing some straightening and bending. Has this changed, or is it just one of those "it all depends" things?
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 24, 2011, 08:06:00 AM
Kelly is in even worse shape than anybody way over there in a sandbox, he has nearly zero options over there.
Post by: ber643 on January 24, 2011, 08:28:00 AM
Kel, if you are near an electronics/comm gear repair unit/facility, they might have some kind of a heat gun (drying/blowing out gear that got wet) you could borrow. Also if any of our lady warriors have a "hot" hair dryer (blow type) with them you might could con it to use for awhile - (might make a friend too, if permissable - LOL) Just a couple thoughts. Blow Dryers are not as hot as heat guns but can sometimes do the trick.
Post by: KellyG on January 24, 2011, 09:08:00 AM
SEMO I get back and get the Ole international up and running. Put a camper shell on her grab the camping gear throw some bow working tools in it. You grab that camera and we will go harass I mean document every bowyer on the bench LOL.
Erick what looks complicated my day dreaming or the whole self bow making. It is hard to post the pics from photo than to do most of it. It is just overwhelming when you start, I am going to what, with what? Then you remove the sap wood and you start hitting the firsts signs of yellow and you hear, feel and see it. Ya think if it does like this down the whole ring it will be easy and it is, until a pesky knot gets in the way.
I am watching the clock to day, can't wait to get it strapped down and get some wood chips going.
Thanks
Kelly
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 24, 2011, 09:32:00 AM
You mentioned some hunting out in Kansas at one time, but I don't know if that's where you call home or not? It would be kinda cool to have you stop by and help me whittle on some Osage for a while and talk shop anyway.
I've got my crooked old stave straightened up a bit and surprizingly I got it dang close to center. I put a string from tip to tip and it's within 1/8" of being dead center. That's good enough for tillering and I won't mess with it any further until I'm done tillering. It's been my experience that the wood will move or twist some while tillering anyway so it may be lined up perfect once I get to that point and I won't have to do anything else to it? I'll see.
I've got some pics to share and I'll get those up today for you to look at. I forgot to take pics of the bow blank before I steamed it, but I do have some of what it looked like before I started shaping it, then the after steaming. It's got some waves and dips, but the tips line up better than I thought it would. This was just a whim anyway and I wanted to challenge myself to see what I could make out of it. It's going to be a bend in the handle bow, light poundage maybe #40 or so and should make a decent rabbit or stump thumper.
Post by: hova on January 24, 2011, 09:48:00 AM
another option is to use exhaust either from a gas humvee if you got em , or something that has hot exhaust. most exhaust even on regular cars is around 200* coming from the pipe. a cat engine (loader or tank) runs a little hotter . you shouldnt need to hold it there very long.
i was thinking too , you could use a torch , and just hold it well below the stave. maybe even wrap the stave in some foil to avoid scorching. i have used torches for heat like this in soldering things , and as long as you stay 8" or more from the flame , you should be good.
dont burn all that work up though...
-hov
Post by: KellyG on January 24, 2011, 09:51:00 AM
I am only about 2 hours from KC and 6 from St louie.
Oh about an hour or soo and I will cut on my stave some.
Post by: John Scifres on January 24, 2011, 12:36:00 PM
You can steam dry wood. It's best if it is sealed with shellac though.
Post by: KellyG on January 24, 2011, 02:03:00 PM
If I was around them Abrams the problem would be easy their exhaust can melt paint off a car.
Hova I have thought of the exhaust too.
I think a little space heater would do the trick. I know we have one of them. If I oiled up the limbe and put it in front of the heater that might work.
thanks for the advise and offers.
God Bless,
Kelly
Post by: KellyG on January 24, 2011, 02:05:00 PM
Ok fist I strapped it down and tried something new. I put two stick a cross my box and the stave on that as strapped it down. ( may put a 2x4 or a 4x4 over the sticks and if and when I try to take out some of the twist and bends).
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/strapingitdown.jpg)
Measure the thickness make sure you are measuring from the back. I made that gage out of a paper towel role.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/Markingthelimbsdepth.jpg)
Make sure you also mark you gages, you would not want to use the wrong end. Don't ask me how I know, just go head and mark your gages.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/markyourgage.jpg)
I used the draw knife to bring it down to my line. Checked floor tiller and there is some flex not much at all but some. A very little more in the knotty limb. Here is PICs of the side Profle
on the floor (it bows to much to put on the tree this way.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/sideprofile1.jpg)
on the tree. well future. I need to run the tape across the other side, then go down a bout 25" or so from the top of the first piece. the tape is 1" wide so it will be fairly easy to put up and take down later.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/sideprofile2.jpg)
Ok pulled this sucker out where the handle and fade meets.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/poppedthisoutwherethehandleandfadesare.jpg)
The limbs are at 3/4" I will take them down to 5/8" tomorrow. My new room the walls are just too thin so I do not want to keep the neighbors up.
Oh if I were to make the Knotty limb the bottom I would have to add on a shelf off the side of the bow just to make it a center shot. I will try and get some string on it tomorrow . This will be just to give me and Ideal of how far off center it really is.
Well as all was let me know,
Kelly
Post by: DVSHUNTER on January 24, 2011, 02:28:00 PM
kelly, it looks more like a bow everytime I see it. That twist is gonna need some work. Try to round up a pipewrench to untwist it.
Post by: Pat B on January 24, 2011, 03:26:00 PM
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 24, 2011, 03:43:00 PM
Other opinions here would also help, I'm just going off my limited knowledge that I've gained in the past 6 months, so I don't know everything by any stretch of the imagination. LOL
Post by: Art B on January 24, 2011, 03:53:00 PM
Post by: ber643 on January 24, 2011, 05:31:00 PM
Post by: Art B on January 24, 2011, 05:59:00 PM
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 24, 2011, 06:10:00 PM
I'm going to store that one away in memory!
Post by: DVSHUNTER on January 25, 2011, 12:20:00 AM
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 25, 2011, 12:22:00 AM
(http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww146/mohunter68/Misc008.jpg)
After working it down to the general shape last night and steaming out that sway so the tips would line up, this is what it looked like this morning.
(http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww146/mohunter68/Misc013.jpg)
(http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww146/mohunter68/Misc014.jpg)
Then after working on it today this is where I was at by about 5pm.
(http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww146/mohunter68/Misc019.jpg)
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 25, 2011, 12:35:00 AM
I decided to quit while I was ahead, and my back was starting to ache from leaning over my shaving horse. So before I got too tired and did something stupid, I decided I would leave it alone until tomorrow and get the short string on it.
I've got a bit of a hard spot there on the left side that has a dip in the limb I think I can get it out by working down the edges from the belly. I don't want to take anymore meat off the belly, I'm just going to round it from the bottom tapering up to the sides a little and see if it will conform.
This ain't too bad for me, 2 days from ugly stave to almost tillered.
You all must inspire me to do better? :goldtooth:
(http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww146/mohunter68/Misc022.jpg)
You can see that hard spot I'm talking about a little better in this pic.
(http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww146/mohunter68/Misc023.jpg)
This pic shows what I'm dealing with when I say hard spot. It actually dips right there and if I had a heat gun I could probably get that out, but it's not a big deal to me as long as my tiller looks pretty good when strung. This is just project bow anyway to see if I could turn the ugliest stave I had into something useful.
It will probably just be a stumper and a bunny thumper anyway.
(http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww146/mohunter68/Misc025.jpg)
There are lots of pin knots and junk throughout the stave, and I got rid of most of the major ones, but there's still plenty of small ones. That concerns me and I hope one of them doesn't decide to start a fret on me. Oh well, I accomplished what I set out to do and proved something to myself, so the mission has already been accomplished as far as I'm concerned.
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 25, 2011, 12:46:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by DVSHUNTER:I know exactly what your saying........I have actually done that before with my very first bow that I made. I started on it while it was green as a gord and my limbs set from shooting it too much. I should have let it age longer, but once I started working on it.....I just couldn't stop! :knothead:
yep, same here. I'd say it is still green, but semo, you're right. With it down that far it will dry quick. Still, I'd give it a few weeks before bending/stressing the limbs much to avoid set.
Post by: George Tsoukalas on January 25, 2011, 10:58:00 AM
Post by: KellyG on January 25, 2011, 02:24:00 PM
However, It is dry here. I cut some cane off that was green and by day two it was brown and dry. When the stave firs came I was adding super glue to the checks daily. That is not the case now. I think the rains have raised the humidity.
There is some movement in the limbs but very little. The knotty one maybe 1" and less for the twisted.
Semo that is pretty quick on that stave.
Thanks to all for you advise. Now that it has some flex to it I will be looking for a way to support the whole limb. A 2x4 I think strapped under the bow will do that.
Thanks again for the help,
Kelly
Post by: George Tsoukalas on January 25, 2011, 07:04:00 PM
Post by: red hill on January 25, 2011, 07:56:00 PM
I just showed your thread to a H.S. senior that is enlisting in the Army after graduation. I used your thread to show some of the things soldiers may do to cope with stress and boredom. He seemed impressed.
Keep it coming, brother.
Stan
Post by: KellyG on January 26, 2011, 12:54:00 AM
I know once it heats up here my shooting it will not happen. It will get to hot and dry to risk shooting it.
Semo's letter that was on the back of the bow said it was a Augs cut stave if I remember.
Red Hill glad you are learning from my attempts, Make sure you hit Brokentooth's thread also. He is on his seconed thread that I know of and this one he is on know shows things I did not have to do. And other tools I don't have.
Also glad to here some young man may get something out of it. One time I though about being a recuiter almost put that packet in. I was afraid they put me in NY or LA or some other big city. I would not do well don't relate well with the people you are trying to recuite and you want do well. now if I were to have gotton some out of the way country town then I think I would have done well. I would have cheated though.
Show some kid pics of me in alaska on a moose, bear, or dall sheep hunt. Me and friends after fishing a run of reds. Heck me in in Baghdad my first tour learning how to Fly Fish. Yep would have be cheatn so I could not bring my self to drop that packet.
Thanks, God Bless, Happy Building
Kelly
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 26, 2011, 07:39:00 AM
Just don't leave it out in the sun too long.
Which may be a good way to remove some of the twist? Leave it in the sun, or put tension on it the way you want it to go while it's sitting in the sun. Hmmmm......might work?
Post by: KellyG on January 26, 2011, 07:55:00 AM
by the end of May that would start to work. Today it was rainy and cloudy and it is not going to be the same for the next few days.
I dont mind the rain or the cold; just can't stand them togather.
Post by: KellyG on January 26, 2011, 07:57:00 AM
Kelly
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 26, 2011, 08:07:00 AM
I hit my target wt. of 40# @28 and it is actually about 42# @28 but that was before the finish sanding to remove the file marks. Now that it's all nice and smooth it's probably dead on 40# which is about the best I can hope for with a short flat bow, it's only 57" tip to tip.
It shoots amazing well, I was stacking arrows in the heart on my target inside the garage from about 15 feet. It's going to get a Satin finish today and I'll get some final pics for ya this afternoon or tonight.
Post by: George Tsoukalas on January 26, 2011, 08:49:00 AM
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 26, 2011, 09:54:00 AM
Mission accomplished. :thumbsup:
Now I know that if I can do this with the worst of the worst, then a nice straight stave is a piece of cake.
Post by: hova on January 26, 2011, 10:22:00 AM
kel , looking awesome! depending on how much twist you have , you might try lashing it to a 2x4. i did this with some of that honey locust i have . split it , tied one end down , but a scrap of 2x4 in the middle to give it a little reflex , then used a bar clamp(pipe wrench would work too) , twisted it , and lashed the other end down. i just took it off there the other day to check on it , and its just about straight. if i would have had a better split , i might get a real bow out of it. as it sits though , iits probably going to be a 12# kids bow. <1" wide , and a hair thicker than 1/4".
you're just makin all of us too proud kel. hows the insurgent activity during the wet season?i always listen for news in kirkuk.
-hov
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 26, 2011, 10:33:00 AM
That piece of locust you got might surprize you how many pounds you could get out of it if you backed it with sinew. Or rawhide.
I've heard that you can gain as much as 20-30lbs depending on how thick you lay it on there.
Post by: KellyG on January 26, 2011, 11:28:00 AM
Sound like you might have a nice little bow. Heck if you backed yours you would really have a nice stalking stick.
Hova,
Knock on wood this area is not as bad as down town LA.
Well dont think I am going to get much done on it tonight. I think I am just going to sit back and enjoy what I have put into it so far. I need to get my tillering tree done.
Happy building and God Bless,
Kelly
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 26, 2011, 01:26:00 PM
I don't get into all the He man poundage thing, and try to keep mine around 50# or less. I used to shoot 80# back in my younger/dumber days, now my shoulder just won't take it anymore.
This one was designed to be fun to shoot and I'm sure it would even take a whitetail with a razor sharp broadhead. It's got a little zip to it.
Post by: hova on January 26, 2011, 03:09:00 PM
that locust isnt thick enough to do anything but testing on. the handle is a knot , and the split ripped out , so one end is a little thicker than the other , and one end is a little narrower. i will mess with it over time , but for right now , its just a reminder to make sure im not cutting down a propeller. there is no way this log would have split even remotely clean.
-hov
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 26, 2011, 08:30:00 PM
Got some pics coming of the bow I just made. It's finally all finished so when I get some good pics I'll be back to post them for y'all.
Post by: KellyG on January 27, 2011, 02:53:00 PM
Once I get the timer on the camera figured out I will get Pics up of the floor tillering.
Here are a couple of the line drawn at 1/2 and inch.
Here is the twisted limb You can see my pencil mark I made with my half inch gage.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/Twistedlimb5-8thwithlinefor1-5inch1.jpg)
Just did a close up to show the gap after strapping down the knotty end. It has a little reflex and a lot of deflex.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/Twistedlimb5-8thwithlinefor1-5inch2.jpg)
Well can't wait to hear if what my next step should be. Please let me know and if someone had gave me their wisdom and you would not do it that way also let me know. I may not use the info on this build but I am sure I will use it.
Thanks for the help and sage advise,
Kelly
Post by: Pat B on January 27, 2011, 03:21:00 PM
Be sure your long string is not too long. Ideally just long enough to go over both nocks and not put tension on the bow.
Don't worry about the twist either, at least not for now. Wood bows will still shoot fine with some twist and it is not detrimental to the bow to shoot it with some twist in it.
Post by: KellyG on January 27, 2011, 04:03:00 PM
Thanks,
Kelly
Post by: hova on January 27, 2011, 04:14:00 PM
lookin great as usual kel,keep it up
-hov
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 27, 2011, 05:41:00 PM
If your looking down the bow from the end that had the twist looking toward the center, the limb tip points to the right at about 2 o'clock versus 12 o'clock being straight even. If that gives you any idea of what you can get away with?
Every bow is different though and the each have their own level of forgiveness to them, some seem like they have to be perfect to get them to shoot accurately. Then some are extremely forgiving and will shoot great no matter what you do or don't do to them. That's why I love my new little short Indian bow, I beleive that it's the most forgiving one that I have built yet.......and the most crooked by a long shot......go figure.
Post by: KellyG on January 27, 2011, 06:03:00 PM
Semo I will try and get my groves in and my tree done tomorrow. I is really way past my bed time here, so tonight is out of the question.
Take care,
Kelly
Post by: J. Holden on January 27, 2011, 08:39:00 PM
-Jeremy :coffee:
Post by: Pat B on January 28, 2011, 12:05:00 AM
There are some basic rules of thumb(an old archery term) about bow building that are common with all wood bows. Once these basics are learned, the sky is the limit. Then, it is almost your duty to discover the charactoristics and personalities and make them bloom into a viable bow. If you work WITH the wood you will be rewarded.
Post by: KellyG on January 28, 2011, 12:19:00 AM
yep 6 for now. I broke the feild point right off. the other two were nocks. I will shoot them until I 3 then I will start looking into makeing and arrow out of the cane here or salt cedar braches, or ever olive shoots. Priorities bow first then something to shoot off them.
Pat we shall see soon enough if I have gottan any of the basics down yet.
thanks,
Kelly
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 28, 2011, 08:02:00 AM
One quick question while I'm thinking about it, for tip twist do you cut the nock deeper on the side that the tip leans toward?
I can't remember.
I'm thinking about some more tip overlays on my next build.
Post by: KellyG on January 28, 2011, 09:11:00 AM
Kelly
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 28, 2011, 09:27:00 AM
Are you on the time clock and if that's the case your sitting here goofing off on Trad Gang and not working? Shamee....shamee....shammee! :nono:
Just a tidbit of advice that I use Kelly when working the belly down, especially when your quite a ways out yet and need to remove lots of material before you get close enough to just rasp a little bit here and there. I use my home made draw knife as a scraper as well as stripping chunks of wood off, but when I'm working down the belly I turn my knife up on edge and scrape the living crap out of it. Keep it even all the way across the bottom side of the limb as you scrape from the fades straight back toward you, then I push it back toward the fade again. You can remove some wood in a hurry by doing this. Then I take my rasp and smooth the edges down and taper the edges of the belly toward the center. Round edges are much stronger than sharp edges, and my experience has been that sharp edges on the bow make a fret or splinter easier to get started. So I usually round the belly on all my bows from the edge toward the center to form a sort of "D" shape with the back being flat on the ring side then rounding toward the center of the belly.
Hope that makes sense?
Post by: KellyG on January 28, 2011, 09:39:00 AM
Not on the clock but just watching it. I dont like to leave to early, just in case I am needed. Plus it is almost dinner time. I can't mantian my shape by not eating.
thanks,
Kelly
Post by: J. Holden on January 28, 2011, 11:46:00 AM
-Jeremy :coffee:
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 28, 2011, 11:53:00 AM
I do have some MRE's that I bought a long time ago and I've got 2 cases of them for a unforseen event should it occur. I have opened a couple of them just to see if they were any good. One that I opened was beef stew and it was actually quite yummy, the other one was beefaroni or something like that and it tasted like dog food...Alpo would have been a step up from that garbage, but I guess it would keep you alive should you ever need something in your gut?
There's lots of other cool stuff in the MRE's as well, matches, aspiring, candy, a food heater bag, vanilla milk shake, sometimes granola bars.
Sorry to go way of topic, just thought about that since you mentioned military food.
Now back to bow building.
Post by: KellyG on January 28, 2011, 01:31:00 PM
Post by: KellyG on January 28, 2011, 01:32:00 PM
Fist you attach the fulcrum to the wall. At about eye level in this case standing ( just because I felt like it and had the room).
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/fulcrum.jpg)
Ok now lay out your lines. I am in this room temporarily so I use 1" duct tape. I first started with in this case about 4" below the top of my fulcrum and marked it and use a level and went out from there drawing a line both directions then I took a measuring tape and made marks ever 1" in the middle and both ends. I guess on how far out from center need to go and had plenty to spare. I did this for about 25" down.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/Measuringandmarking.jpg)
don't ask why I have two strips of tape up already. Ok I was doing it the hard way first one at a time. Then I realized if I make each end I could just tape afterwards.
now onward
I add the tape at ever other inch mark to give a nice contrast and see the inch marks. I also rubbed the tape vigorously it seem to heat it up a little and make it stick better. I my hands at first then the tape roll. this heated up not only the glue of the tape on the wall but on the roll also.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/completeandbowstaverestingontop.jpg)
You could use it at this point but would have to pull the string up close. This is not the best thing, I know and will freely admit this (so you know I am serious) that bow can brake on the tillering tree and it can be very explosive. Just think the bow you are trying to build can launch an arrow thru and elk. Now what is the difference if that arrow was just part of the bow?
Post by: KellyG on January 28, 2011, 01:35:00 PM
Top pulley
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/completeandbowstaverestingontop.jpg)
and bottom I am not going to use the top. I don't have a scale to put in to see what I am drawing. remember the more pulleys the stronger you are.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/Bottompulley.jpg)
And here we are full view.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/completwithpulleys.jpg)
there is more I did knocks and even put it on the long string.
So now I need to right that
Post by: KellyG on January 28, 2011, 01:59:00 PM
First I measure from the tip of the bow on the back a 1/2" on both sides of the back. Then I eyeballed a 45 degree angle an confirmed I was close with my leaves 45 bubble. I held it over the top of my line and it was close. I measured from the tip down the belly where his line came to the belly 1/8". Now I use that to mark the other side of the belly. Of course I did not get any PICs for some reason I deleted the pics of the layout.
so I started with a round file on one side chose one and filed the grove in pushing from belly to back up my 45 degree line. That was what was comfortable for me. Once I had a deep enough grove to keep the file from trying to walk where it was not suppose to go. I move to the front and did the same
then the other side. Here I was pushing the file from the back to the belly but to help keep the 45s lined up I use a nail in the off side grove and lined my file up over and filed in my grove.. Once I had a good start I round the edges of all the connecting points of the groves and had a Nock in my bow stave.
Nail method it worked so stop laughing. :)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/lineingupfornocks.jpg)
ok twisted limbs knocks front
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/Twistlimbfronttempknocks.jpg)
and back
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/Twistedlimbbacktempknocks.jpg)
now the knotty limbs front
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/Knottylimbfronttempknocks.jpg)
and back
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/knottylimbebacktempknocks.jpg)
there is more I put it on the long string I mean who could resist. I have a new tree, and nocks in the bow stave come on you know you would have do the same.
Post by: KellyG on January 28, 2011, 02:13:00 PM
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/longstring.jpg)
a closer look
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/longstingnotcentered.jpg)
enough to get about 1 1/2" out of the left (twisted) limb and 2 1/2" out of the right (knotty) limb. I see a hinge in the make in that inner third that is where a know was the wood that came off. I was sticking out the side about and 1" below all that wood left.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/longstringtiller.jpg)
ok here is an end pic of the twisted end the back it the narrow top and the belly the wide bottom. Should I try and fix this now or just leave it.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/backnarrowandbellwide.jpg)
Ok now I have given yall plenty to look at and mull over let me know what you think and what is next. I really don't know. I would try getting more of a square limb on that twisted on and see if it was bending more. But that is just a blind stab.
thanks
Kelly
Post by: KellyG on January 28, 2011, 02:15:00 PM
Post by: Pat B on January 28, 2011, 03:02:00 PM
Post by: KellyG on January 28, 2011, 03:29:00 PM
Come on Pat what else you got, what is next?
Thanks for the tip on the groves I wont repeat it more than a few time I promise,
Kelly
Post by: snag on January 28, 2011, 04:10:00 PM
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 28, 2011, 04:55:00 PM
You can glue tip overlays on the nock ends later on, it's really not a big deal to do. Me or Pat can walk you through it and you can use some of your cut offs from the stave to use for tip overlays and your TBIII that you carried over there with ya.
Or worst case scenerio, you make it 1" shorter no big deal so don't stress yourself out about it.
Your making progress bud, just keep up the good work.
Your next step will be to take wood off the belly evenly and begin the tillering process.
I'll let Pat walk you through that one, it's too hard for me to explain and I probably do it differently than the other guys.
Post by: KellyG on January 28, 2011, 09:11:00 PM
I will not make that mistake twice. Hmmm tip overlays, I already know what I am going to do there is a eucalyptus tree that was cut cause it was dead it has a burgundy hue to it.
Now should i repair that mistake now or waite. I guess it will have some static tips now also.
If I need to repair it now, can just make about a 4" overlay or should it be longer? I think that if I wait and the bow makes it thru the tillering I can mesure the thickness from back to belly on the tip. Then measure down the back fo the bow from the tip to say 4"; connect the dots from the tip to back makeing a diagonal line on the side and file down to that line then make a overlay to match and glue in.
Just think.
Thanks for your imput,
Kelly
Post by: vanillabear? on January 28, 2011, 09:31:00 PM
Post by: Pat B on January 28, 2011, 11:27:00 PM
Everything outside of the string nock is inert and you can deal with it later when you shape the tips.
Post by: KellyG on January 29, 2011, 12:49:00 AM
Vanillabear? I will have to try that one time. I think with a file and hand tool that I am just learning wiht it might be a little more advanced work. But I have a shed at the house when I get back than has one or two too many points on it.
Kelly
Post by: broketooth on January 29, 2011, 05:46:00 AM
Post by: KellyG on January 29, 2011, 05:52:00 AM
I will get it down. Thanks for the remider though.
Kelly
Post by: broketooth on January 29, 2011, 05:53:00 AM
Post by: KellyG on January 29, 2011, 06:00:00 AM
Post by: KellyG on January 30, 2011, 12:34:00 PM
Ok here are the PIC of the new nocks. Twisted limb is up first
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/newkockstwisted.jpg)
Knotty one
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/newknockskknotty.jpg)
Now for a little scraping
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/scrapeing.jpg)
Notice the little ribbons coming up I did ten more on the twisted limb than I did on the knotty one. I will continue that trend until I get the twisted limb bending similar to the twisted limb. I know if you never done this you will are think how many do I start with. Most say 10 to 20, and just don't rush it.
Ok relaxed on the tree the string is tight I just have it under a lip there.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/relaxedonthetree.jpg)
ok some bend
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/pullmaybe2inchs.jpg)
I know the knotty limb fad needs some work and I need to skip that knot just past the fades. then scrap the rest of the limb. If I am wrong let me know. If you don't and this does not work out, and you say well is seen that pics ago. I will put Roy from PA on ya. ;)
Now for a close up of both limbs
twisted
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/twistedlimbs.jpg)
Knotty
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/knottlylimb.jpg)
very little tension just enough to keep it on the tree.
Ok let me know where I need to be now.
Thanks,
Kelly
Post by: Pat B on January 30, 2011, 03:31:00 PM
You might be at a point where you need to adress the unevenness of the limbs. It will be hard to see good tiller with one limb with a natural bend and the other flat.
Post by: KellyG on January 30, 2011, 04:00:00 PM
I was waiting for that, but the weather here is not good. I have never seen it rain so much here.
Post by: J. Holden on January 31, 2011, 10:58:00 AM
-Jeremy :coffee:
Post by: KellyG on January 31, 2011, 11:14:00 AM
I have come up with a few Ideals
1) build a fire in one of the 55 gallon drum grills that someone made. I have plenty of wood to burn. Once I get some good flames close the lid and let it get hot and hold the stave over the grill or under which ever one seems to get hotter. I had thought about holding it over the smoke stack but I need to do the whole limb and once. Then swiftly strap it to a 4X4 with shims and/or blocks to get to the desired shape.
2) build fire and put a coffee, paint or some other can of water on to boil and find something to steam a limb in. the strap it to the 4x4 as above
All is on hold because I think I may have to stop and build an ark. If it does not stop raining. I live in a building affectionately known as the tinder box so I don't think a fire in that would be good. I would hate to lose my bow blank.
Thanks,
Kelly
Post by: Pat B on January 31, 2011, 04:21:00 PM
Post by: broketooth on January 31, 2011, 04:39:00 PM
Post by: KellyG on February 01, 2011, 12:03:00 AM
I was not trying to get fancy I know I want have a lot of time I was just hopping toget that knoty limbe straight and the twisted limb take out some of that twist.
I have a good length of 4X4 I was going to strap it down too. If it stops raining I will try sunday if not the next one. That will give me time to look a options on heat sources anyway.
Thank and God Bless,
Kelly
Post by: Pat B on February 01, 2011, 12:41:00 AM
Post by: KellyG on February 01, 2011, 10:36:00 AM
Post by: J. Holden on February 03, 2011, 10:48:00 PM
-Jeremy :coffee:
Post by: KellyG on February 04, 2011, 09:04:00 AM
It is almost to much to go into my room in the evening and not pick up a scaper just to see them little yellow curls. O well if all goes as planned on sunday I should be full steam ahead.
Thanks,
Kelly
Post by: J. Holden on February 05, 2011, 06:51:00 PM
-Jeremy :coffee:
Post by: KellyG on February 06, 2011, 10:23:00 AM
Ok to day I tried straightening out the knotty limb. I was successful to an extent. I found out yes I can do it with heat off of coals and not burn the wood. It is going to take more than one session but I have the time. I will be fighting the rainy season. I need to get it done now while the RH us up here.
Ok we will start with a PIC of a before on the knotty limb that has a lot of natural Deflex
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/Beforeheatknottylimb.jpg)
Now the fuel what better way to get rid of the ole shavings. I lite them up and let them burn down too coals.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/Thefuel.jpg)
now before I put the limb on that metal I did put some water on it to cool it off. I closed the lid and did about 10 minutes on the belly and back for about 20 minutes total. At this point is was very hot to the touch. I almost could not touch it at all.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/heatingthelimbup.jpg)
Now we strap it down.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/Firststraping.jpg)
I repeated the heating after it was completely cooled and did it again focusing on a different spot.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/secondstraping.jpg)
Now I have it on the tree for an after
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/afteronthetree.jpg)
and a close up you can see pencil marks where the top of that limb use to be. plus you can go back an look at other pics of it on the tree before.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/Improvement.jpg)
I am planning on doing this again later this week if I get time. I know it does not need to be prefect but I know I can get it closer. I am walking the stave down the 4x4 each time making it a little flatter as I go. this was just two time on the heat.
So how do you like that let me know what ya think and any more info. I will also have to deal with the way the string tracks at some point but that will not be as easy.
Thank, God Bless and Happy building,
Kelly
Post by: broketooth on February 06, 2011, 10:40:00 AM
Post by: Pat B on February 06, 2011, 10:53:00 AM
Taking it slow, the way you are forced to, is very good when learning to build bows. It gives you plenty of time to think and rethink each process before you jump in with both feet...and patience is one of the hardest lesson to learn but the most important tool a wood bow builder can have in his(or her) kit bag.
Post by: KellyG on February 06, 2011, 11:10:00 AM
Pat thanks I am at the age when hurrying is just not all that important.
thanks again,
Kelly
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on February 06, 2011, 11:13:00 AM
You'll get there, just keep pluggin away at it.
I noticed some trees in the pics, I didn't know you had any trees there? Of course I've never been to Iraq either. I guess I was under the impression it was all dirt, rock, and sand......and of course some mountains.
Post by: hova on February 06, 2011, 11:17:00 AM
i cant wait to get my hands on the drawknife kerryb is sending. im sure to cut myself shortly after i receive it...
lookin great kel , keep it up.
-hov
Post by: red hill on February 06, 2011, 11:20:00 AM
This is an excellent thread. I'm learning one heck of a lot from following along.
Good job.
Stan
Post by: Pat B on February 06, 2011, 11:55:00 AM
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on February 06, 2011, 12:09:00 PM
Post by: KellyG on February 06, 2011, 12:53:00 PM
Red hill- no scorching at all, I was afraid it might. I did not use any big pieces of wood just shavings and dead branches.
Pat is right SEMO, this country could be the greatest in the middle east. There #1 export besides oil was dates. If the wheat comes in I may have to take a PIC and post them of the wheat fields that would rival many in KS.
If you want to know what this place is like read the old testament. It has not changed much. Sheep and Donkeys roam city streets with herders in tow. Now he bad news they are very tribal and the tribes/clans just don't like each other. That is in my mind the biggest hold up to the country. If they ever unit, no country here could rival them. They have big lakes, if they would put half the energy into making canals as they do petty feuding there would not be a dry place here.
Those are olive trees if I can find a dead on I might put it on the bow menu. There are a lot of eucalyptus here also. I know of mulberry trees and have my eye on one if it gets cut. We can't just cut down the trees they have to be dead and a safety issue.
If you really want to be surprised Google the Bagdad school of fly fishing. You will see a few PIC of yours truly from 06. Winter is the Rainy season I really don't remember as much rain as we have gotten here.
Enough about this big bow shed over here.
God Bless and Happy Building,
Kelly
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on February 06, 2011, 01:04:00 PM
Hope you get to try your hand at an olive bow, at least you could say you've done something with wood that none of us have! lol
Post by: KellyG on February 06, 2011, 01:08:00 PM
Post by: KellyG on February 13, 2011, 09:27:00 AM
Here I am adding heat, there is little flame but I use a water bottle to keep it down.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/heatingupthelimblittleflame.jpg)
no flame the why I like it so far
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/hotcoals.jpg)
ok since last weekend I heated the limb twice I am calling this 3rd and 4th heat treatments
so 3rd time strapping it down I tried just on a flat piece of wood
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/Thirdattemptstraighting.jpg)
now the fourth with a round stick under the bend
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/4thatemptstraighting.jpg)
close up
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/roundsickunderthebend.jpg)
ok on the tree the tips up almost the same height. the left is 6" above the first tape and right is 4.5" so about and 1.5" to go.
well what do you think. It is closer that is for sure. so what do yall think,
thanks,
Kelly
Post by: Pat B on February 13, 2011, 11:05:00 AM
At this point, if all of the major straightening has been done, draw a thickness line down each limb and even out the limbs to that line. Probably about 1/2" thick or slightly more then check it on the tiller tree and start marking stiff spots.
Post by: KellyG on February 13, 2011, 11:55:00 AM
Post by: KellyG on February 13, 2011, 12:01:00 PM
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/onthetreeafter3rdhand4thheattreatments.jpg)
Post by: KellyG on February 13, 2011, 12:07:00 PM
Post by: KellyG on February 13, 2011, 12:14:00 PM
I think I know were 2x6 is to use. I will screw a 2x4 to it. the 2x4 will have the 1.5" drop and the 2x6 should help draw the string closer to center.
If I can get it made this week I will show ya what I did and see if you think it would work
Post by: Pat B on February 13, 2011, 01:46:00 PM
Post by: KellyG on February 16, 2011, 09:16:00 AM
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on February 16, 2011, 11:07:00 AM
Post by: KellyG on February 17, 2011, 11:32:00 AM
Post by: Pat B on February 17, 2011, 12:05:00 PM
Post by: KellyG on February 17, 2011, 12:09:00 PM
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on February 17, 2011, 12:21:00 PM
He shoots.....He Scores!! :thumbsup:
Post by: J. Holden on February 17, 2011, 06:43:00 PM
-Jeremy :coffee:
Post by: KellyG on February 18, 2011, 02:29:00 AM
Kelly
Post by: hova on February 18, 2011, 11:34:00 PM
funny you mention the Baghdad school of fly fishing , i read about it in a field and stream a while back , and always wanted to send some flies over. if i get back to tying , ill send you guys some.
-hov
Post by: KellyG on February 19, 2011, 06:32:00 AM
Post by: KellyG on February 27, 2011, 06:33:00 AM
Here is my score of clamps.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/Clamps.jpg)
Here is the 4x4 I am using as form.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/precaul.jpg)
I measured 30" form the end and marked it, then measured to make the end 2" thick. Drew a straight line between the 30" mark and the 2" on and took the draw knife and took all the wood above that line off. Here is the end result.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/caul.jpg)
This just shows the tip and the 4" it will have to bend to get where I need it.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/tipoffcaul.jpg)
Heated and clamped, heck it is cooling now.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowclamped.jpg)
I will take it off some time tomorrow.
Thanks for looking,
Kelly
Post by: Lee Slikkers on February 27, 2011, 02:35:00 PM
Very cool stuff...
Post by: Pat B on February 27, 2011, 04:51:00 PM
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on February 27, 2011, 06:36:00 PM
Keep up the good work Kelly!
Post by: KellyG on February 28, 2011, 07:42:00 AM
Here it is on the tree remember this is after 5 heat treatments.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/looksalittelbetter.jpg)
Here is the limb showing the previous marks and it is about the same when I compare the pics.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/sameasImprovement1.jpg)
But here is a knot that is causing a dip in the limb. the knot is on one side and that side does not lay flat where as the other on does.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/knotandtwist.jpg)
Ok do I try and go more on the drop say take another inch off on the end of my form to get the deflex out? I am unsure if I should try again maybe get for aggressive on the bend. I have to get the tips closer to center also but that can wait.
Oh it is not that bad,evertime I think man if only, I try to remember wath our primitive man had. Now granted he had the time but so do I.
Thanks for the help,
Kelly
Post by: Pat B on February 28, 2011, 08:39:00 AM
Post by: KellyG on February 28, 2011, 11:03:00 AM
Kelly
Post by: Pat B on February 28, 2011, 12:19:00 PM
Make both limbs about the same thickness if you can. Your bow will be only as strong as the thinnest part of the limb so be careful.
Post by: KellyG on February 28, 2011, 01:05:00 PM
Post by: Pat B on February 28, 2011, 01:34:00 PM
Post by: KellyG on March 06, 2011, 11:04:00 AM
I took over 80 passes on the other limb it is the stiffer and still is. I am not taking any more of the knotty one.(for now)
*Note you may need sun glasses very white legs in the last PIC you have been warned*
Here is relaxed on the tree
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/Tillerafterheatrelax.jpg)
First passes of about 30 on the twisted limb and 15 on the knotty
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/First20afterheat.jpg)
here it is after the last run, it is braced at about and 1"
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/last20afterheat.jpg)
Here I am Shaving some wood off
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/Shaveingsomewoodoff.jpg)
Is it ready for more heat or continue, oh it is about 12" draw right now. I will make a way to teast the weight later.
Thanks,
Kelly
Post by: Stiks-n-Strings on March 06, 2011, 02:24:00 PM
Put some weight on your scale that you know is correct to see how much it's off. stick your tillering post deal on your scale and rest your bow in your cradle and pull it down to see what your weight is. Don't pull past your intended weight.
Hope I didn't confuse the crap out you. LOL
looks good so far. stiks
Post by: J. Holden on March 06, 2011, 02:33:00 PM
-Jeremy :coffee:
Post by: Pat B on March 06, 2011, 02:44:00 PM
She starting to bend a little but still looks stiff so I'd remove more wood, get the limbs bending more before any more heating.
Post by: KellyG on March 06, 2011, 03:34:00 PM
oh come one over Jeremy the weather is great for now want be long and it will be 100 plus.
Ok pat I will get some more bending in the limbs,
I want to work on the twisted, and more towards the middle and out from what I am seeing. I think.
thanks all,
Kelly
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on March 07, 2011, 09:56:00 AM
BTW- I'd be glad to come over and give you a hand, but I doubt the service would take me with my health problems and they would either have to let me bring my own sniper outfit or set me up with a good one. Put me up in a tower or a tree somewhere and you all could just call me "The Guardian" or Zuess as in death from above. :saywhat:
Then you all could roam about freely with no worries. :goldtooth:
Post by: KellyG on March 13, 2011, 01:40:00 PM
I took some pice but they look just like the one above. I only do 3 at a time so I don't get impatient and take too much off. I think I can shorten the string a little more. I is tight now, but I think I will start the next session with this string then shorten it after the first set of scrapes. and see if I can brace it at a couple of inches.
Thanks for looking.
p.s Semo they don't shoot at us much here anymore. They like shooting at each other more.
Post by: DVSHUNTER on March 13, 2011, 01:50:00 PM
Post by: J. Holden on March 19, 2011, 07:22:00 PM
-Jeremy :coffee:
Post by: KellyG on March 19, 2011, 07:47:00 PM
It is 2am sunday morning. I am on a night shift and am working 14 hour days right now. I have scaped on it a little and have it bending. A little more but is really is not much more than in the pics I have posted. I have taken on pic, but will try to remove wood off the twisted limb. It is still just a little stiffer than the knotty one. I think one or two more and they will be bending close to the same. The twist is causeing me problems running a gizmo up the limb.
I may try and brace it a couple of inches after my next session.
Well I guess that is all for now.
Thanks,
Kelly
Post by: J. Holden on March 19, 2011, 08:14:00 PM
-Jeremy :coffee:
Post by: KellyG on March 20, 2011, 06:29:00 PM
Post by: Pat B on March 20, 2011, 10:37:00 PM
Post by: KellyG on March 21, 2011, 06:12:00 PM
Post by: KellyG on March 22, 2011, 02:44:00 PM
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/longerstring22march.jpg)
Now after a few scraps and on a shorter string.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/ontheshorterstring22march.jpg)
Now for string tracking on the shorter string.
belly view
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/stringtrackingonhandle.jpg)
Side view
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/stringtrackingsideverylowbrace.jpg)
down the length
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/stringtrackingtotallenght.jpg)
This string tracking will have to be fixed sooner or later but I want to get the same amount of limb tip movement on both limbs and I am not there. If you look close at the pics above; just above both tips you can see my pencil marks. That is where the tips started out at rest.
The twist in the limbs makes string very difficult because the whole thing just wants to twist as you put pressure on the string.
Well I will post more when I get a few more scraps done.
The next heating job I think I may try the exhaust of one of the big generators. It may be hot enough and if I can find a metal tube to put the bow in I may beable to heat more of it. Just brain storming on this.
Thanks for looking.
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on March 22, 2011, 03:01:00 PM
I think you've done well considering your trying to work without all the necessary tools for the job, otherwise you would have already been shooting it I'm sure.
I bet somebody has an old heat gun they aren't using that they could send ya?
Post by: KellyG on March 22, 2011, 03:08:00 PM
Thanks again,
Kelly
Post by: J. Holden on April 04, 2011, 07:30:00 AM
-Jeremy :coffee:
Post by: KellyG on April 04, 2011, 09:15:00 AM
I have not given up, just 12 hour shifts plus 2 more durning the week to help out some soldiers to try and get ready for some testing, makes for long days and shavings has move down under sleep some how.
I be back at it before to long I have 6 months to get it done at least. lol
Post by: Lee Slikkers on April 04, 2011, 11:42:00 AM
Post by: J. Holden on April 04, 2011, 03:09:00 PM
-Jeremy :coffee:
Post by: KellyG on April 04, 2011, 04:02:00 PM
Thanks gang
Post by: mustang on April 11, 2011, 10:48:00 AM
You have a PM
Jon
stavepress.com
Post by: KellyG on April 11, 2011, 12:42:00 PM
Post by: mustang on April 11, 2011, 02:03:00 PM
another pm
Post by: J. Holden on April 13, 2011, 07:07:00 AM
-Jeremy :coffee:
Post by: KellyG on April 17, 2011, 12:42:00 PM
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/tiller17apr11.jpg)
let me know what you see.
The right limb has some natral deflex where the limbs appears to hing.
thank for looking,
Kelly
Post by: Pat B on April 17, 2011, 02:00:00 PM
Kelly it looks like the left limb is bending pretty good but the right doesn't seem to be bending at all past the deflexed area. Put "X"s all around the deflexed area and don't touch that area until you get that limb bending more.
Could you not get that deflexed area straightened out with heat?
Post by: KellyG on April 17, 2011, 05:47:00 PM
So I can try heat again, I think i will try the exhaust off of a generator heat and clap, and then heat the whole thing
Post by: KellyG on April 21, 2011, 03:03:00 AM
then on ot getting the tips a little closer ot the handle.
I have not taken pics of this procces since it look just like the grill method, I just can get more of it hotter and move it better.
Thanks for looking
Kelly
Post by: J. Holden on April 22, 2011, 08:50:00 AM
-Jeremy :coffee:
Post by: snag on April 22, 2011, 03:50:00 PM
Post by: KellyG on April 22, 2011, 04:19:00 PM
I it was raining cats and dogs this am and all day so I have it clamped still I want ot heat it again my be three or four times be for relaseing it
Post by: J. Holden on April 23, 2011, 08:51:00 PM
-Jeremy :coffee:
P.S. I imagine not too much ham being served over where you're at. I'll be sure to have some for you tomorrow. ;)
Post by: KellyG on April 26, 2011, 03:33:00 PM
Ok I took my stave off the caul after using the exhaust off a diesel generator, and well I think it worked, now I have to heat it and get the strings to line up but first I am going to tiller it some more. I heated it this time and left it for about 5 days, I had planned one heating it a few times, but it rained most of those days.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/StraightusedDieselexhaust.jpg)
Post by: Pat B on April 26, 2011, 03:52:00 PM
Post by: KellyG on April 26, 2011, 04:12:00 PM
Post by: J. Holden on April 26, 2011, 06:12:00 PM
Post by: hova on April 26, 2011, 11:57:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by fdlz58:dude thats messed up...
Looks like that all that "exhaust-ing" work is paying off! :coffee:
kel that stick is perfect as far as i can see. i hope mine starts even close to that. im picking up my log from the inlaws tomorrow and getting to it. i need to make a couple few strings and chase some rings. also need to stop by HF and pick up either a vice or a clamp on the cheap...
lookin great tho. that tiller wall is awesome. do they have any where you can go to hunt with this over there? you should try doing a safari for something or just take it with you roving and try for scorpions...
keep yer head down , work on a bow...
-hov
Post by: twitchstick on April 28, 2011, 09:47:00 AM
Post by: KellyG on April 28, 2011, 02:43:00 PM
Hova thanks and relook through my post and you will see that a vise is not needed. LOL
twitchstick thanks I am glad others are learning by my muddling thru.
I have to get a pick up of it being flexed now without any more wood removed, I dont think with the deflex is gone it does not hindge. I will post a pic of it later.
Post by: red hill on April 28, 2011, 06:07:00 PM
Good job,
Stan :jumper:
Post by: KellyG on April 29, 2011, 08:43:00 AM
Now for a pic of it being flexed, no wood has be removed from the last pic before I got her straight.
before
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/tiller17apr11.jpg)
notice the hindge area or what looks like a hindge
after
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/afterknottylimbwasstraighten.jpg)
limbs are close about 2" of movement or so at the tips maybe a little more.
Thanks for looking.
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on April 29, 2011, 09:44:00 AM
Post by: KellyG on April 29, 2011, 03:35:00 PM
Ok maybe not that bad but if you look from one tip to the other you can see it. I have the string taught very taugth and it runs about an 1/2 inch by the handle. So I am going to shave it down and get it to a low brace and post pics of it then.
Post by: KellyG on May 01, 2011, 05:32:00 PM
Post by: KellyG on May 21, 2011, 12:20:00 PM
Just wanted to let yall know I am still working on it slowly but surely.
Post by: J. Holden on May 21, 2011, 02:59:00 PM
-Jeremy :coffee:
Post by: hova on May 21, 2011, 05:32:00 PM
yeah the more i think of it , if youre not even at brace yet , scraping will take you forever. and possibly burn your hands...
i would even say to get some 100grit sandpaper or something. i just cant imagine scraping a bow that much.
lookin good with the heat tho , shoulda used a sidewinder...
-hov
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on May 21, 2011, 05:59:00 PM
Post by: KellyG on May 22, 2011, 02:35:00 PM
Post by: red hill on May 22, 2011, 04:19:00 PM
I've tried the palm sander recently and like the way it works. I just prefer the control the knife gives me while scraping.
Stan
Post by: KellyG on May 22, 2011, 09:19:00 PM
I it is working good, I pitch the top forward just a bit so I hop it helps prevent that.
Post by: J. Holden on May 29, 2011, 07:20:00 AM
-Jeremy :coffee:
Post by: KellyG on May 31, 2011, 04:05:00 AM
Well it just so happens we did grill out. Our BN CO Birth day was this weekend and the BN CSM got a bunch of meat and it turned out mmmmmm good. Hope all of yall had a good week end.
Kelly
PS scrapped away some more this weekend. Still cant get it to a low brace get but the limbs are bending more and more.
Post by: KellyG on June 01, 2011, 04:20:00 PM
This first pic shows the string along the length of the bow.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/6-1-113-1.jpg)
the next two are of the handle area from the belly and side.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/6-1-112.jpg)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/6-1-111-1.jpg)
I think with the gap growing between the handle and string there is some flexing going on sideways. Not sure but that does not sound good.
Is it time to heat her up again and get it a little straighter?
Thanks
Post by: KellyG on June 05, 2011, 07:36:00 AM
And look at the this I have a brace!
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/shortstring6-5-11a.jpg)
I know I have a lot more work but this is a major breakthrough on my part. I feel like I am getting somewhere now.
end views twisted end first.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/endviewtwisted.jpg)
Now the knotty
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/endviewknottie.jpg)
I put my gizmo on her and got a very few breaks in my lines.
Also I have a pm from Patb on my string track, he told me to measure both sides of the limb thickness that could cause the string tracking issue. I did that and got about 1/16 of an inch difference along both limbs. I took my limbs have 3 pencil mark on them from the gizmo. That is because I ran it down the middle and the each edge of the limbs. I will get picks up of that the next go around.
I have not done anything more though then just use a real bow string and look at the tracking it is closer to center I know the string silencer is in the way. but trust me it is much better. I still am going to have to move it some. But I think I will scrap a little. I have not pulled it yet I know that I am pushing my draw at brace and maybe over it.
So here I my to do list and help me if you think it should really be reordered.
1) scrap off my gizmo marks
2) check weight on scale (if it thought I was close to 45lbs I would do this now)
3) get it pulling out to say 20inches and work on moving that string to center with heat.
4) while waiting on bow to rehydrate, work on tips and handle a little.
5)finish tiller and then make her pretty.
**note show yall as I go
Ok input please
thanks Kelly
Post by: Pat B on June 05, 2011, 10:01:00 AM
You should get some of the twist out of that one limb but that will come as you continue to tiller if you are careful. One way to check the twist is with the gizmo but instead of working it down the center of the limb, work it down each side of the limb(on the belly) and you will see the areas that need to be scraped to remove the twist.
Try not to worry about the draw weight for now. Work on the tillering and get that worked out. If it comes in under weight we'll get you another stave for your next project.
Don't you love those light bulb moments. To me, that is the excitement of wood bow building. Even after 25 years of wood bow building I still get them and that keeps me going on to the next bow.
As you get the limb bending more you will have to extend the gizmo pencil farther into the gizmo so more point is showing longer underneith. Once you get to about 20" and exerything is going well and the limbs are bending evenly and together you can just take a few full length scrapes off, exercise the limbs and move out another inch. You will have to pay more attention as to how things are going because a lot can happen in a short time or with only a few scrapes at this time.
You are at a point now where you can see the light at the end of the tunnel so keep your eyes on the prize and don't get carries away or over confident. Well done, my friend!!!
Post by: KellyG on June 05, 2011, 10:11:00 AM
I am just glad I compared strings for if I had not it would have been really light in the end.
Thanks again Pat
Post by: J. Holden on June 05, 2011, 02:05:00 PM
-Jeremy :coffee:
Post by: hova on June 05, 2011, 09:26:00 PM
i never really figured on 550 stretching much , but it is nylon over nylon , so its not really a surprise. if you need a string , shoot me your apo and ill whip up something that wont stretch as much.
any color you want , 'long as it's black.
-hov
Post by: KellyG on June 05, 2011, 11:52:00 PM
Hove thanks but that string came off my long bow and will work. I am going to have to start shipping stuff off soon. I need to finish this on and start on the other stave and get it looking like a bow. So I can send it home or lose that stave, because it is untreated wood.
Post by: red hill on June 07, 2011, 12:10:00 PM
Looks good, sir.
Stan
Post by: J. Holden on June 07, 2011, 12:37:00 PM
-Jeremy :coffee:
Post by: KellyG on June 07, 2011, 08:48:00 PM
yep jeremy it is thanks
and here is the next errr fumbling and bumbling brought to you by yours truely
Ok I have worked on it a little more and thought I should show the gizmo in use.
the first pick is of the gizmo and me showing the biggest gap, and I adjust that pencil so it is almost touching. The you run it the lenght of the limb, middle then the sides
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/gizmo.jpg)
here are my lines it left, i scrape about 10 time where the lines are and leave the area alone where it is. Eric correct me please if that is not right.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/Pencilmarks.jpg)
Ok she is pulling about 10" here, I have it out to about 12 on the tree but can pull 14" if in hand. It just scares me on the tree pulling that far.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/about9inchs.jpg)
Post by: KellyG on June 09, 2011, 12:45:00 AM
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/6-9-11a.jpg)
Now I have just flipped so the twisted is on the right. you can see the belly now and the twist better.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/6-9-11b.jpg)
the knotty limb the gizmo show the outer half needing more wood remove. The twisted I get lines almost the whole way so I guess that means she is bending really good. The good thing on the knotty side the stiff spots are at knots.
If you count the notches the string is in the 13 one so it is 13" from the belly. Not to bad. I have scraped it once more since these pics. I am doing ten but my next one will only be 5 scrapes. I really notice the difference when drawing it. So I would rather be safe and do less scrapes.
Well input is always welcome.
thanks Kelly
Post by: red hill on June 11, 2011, 11:38:00 AM
Stan
Post by: Pat B on June 11, 2011, 12:41:00 PM
Be sure to exercise the limbs well between wood removals. From now on it won't take much wood removal to really change things.
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on June 11, 2011, 01:34:00 PM
The real bowstring made a world of difference.
Listen to Pat's advice and you'll do fine.
I wish you could just drive on over here so I could take that twist out for ya this afternoon, but I know that's impossible.
Hang in there buddy! :thumbsup:
Post by: KellyG on June 11, 2011, 06:07:00 PM
Post by: KellyG on June 11, 2011, 06:12:00 PM
Thanks for the kind word redhill, and the advise Pat,
Kelly
Post by: KellyG on June 12, 2011, 02:24:00 PM
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/6-12-11pullingabout19inch48.jpg)
Thanks,
Kelly
Post by: Shaun on June 12, 2011, 03:42:00 PM
Post by: Pat B on June 13, 2011, 05:57:00 PM
Post by: KellyG on June 13, 2011, 06:55:00 PM
Post by: Pat B on June 14, 2011, 12:13:00 AM
Also I wanted to tell you something about the gizmo(unless you already know). If you are getting a line down the length of the limb shorten the pencil point on the gizmo and scribe again. You have to periodically adjust the "depth' of the point to allow for wear but you should also adjust the depth as tiller progresses also.
When you get near the fades you will get a false reading from the gizmo because of the "artificial" curvature of the fades. The surface of the fade bends permanently.
Post by: KellyG on June 14, 2011, 03:03:00 PM
Post by: KellyG on June 14, 2011, 03:54:00 PM
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/Clamped.jpg)
Here is the pick of my heat source.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/exhalt.jpg)
Well more to come later. I think while I let it rehydrate, I am going to start on the other stave. I need to get it bending so I can say it is a bow and mail it back and finish it. Or I lose that stave and have to leave it here.
Post by: J. Holden on June 14, 2011, 07:19:00 PM
-Jeremy :coffee:
Post by: Pat B on June 14, 2011, 11:37:00 PM
Good idea on the other stave. Let's get it bending before you come home. Looking forward to you getting your feet back on US soil. You better get as much done on both of the bows before you get home. That honey-do list has got to be a mile long by now!
Post by: KellyG on June 15, 2011, 01:16:00 AM
Pat I got about 90% of the twist out. No should I string it and see where the string is tracking now or let it set for a few days and string and check. I am going to get that other stave down to my ring on saturday I hope and sunday I should be able to lay it out and get it cut to profile, and with some of joe's advice on his thread make some quick work I hope.
thank and I will try and get some pick up of the much less twisted bow.
Post by: Stiks-n-Strings on June 15, 2011, 02:31:00 AM
Otherwise it looks like your coming along great, especially with what you have available to work with.
Stiks
Post by: J. Holden on June 15, 2011, 11:20:00 AM
-Jeremy :coffee:
Post by: KellyG on June 15, 2011, 01:48:00 PM
Post by: Pat B on June 15, 2011, 11:35:00 PM
Post by: Randy on June 18, 2011, 08:46:00 AM
Thank you for your service. Hurry home so you can use your bow for its intended purpose. Randy
Post by: KellyG on June 18, 2011, 04:43:00 PM
Randy thanks, and this is only my third attempt, but I am glad you are learning from my fumbling around. Plus the insight of the more experienced bowyers that are helping out.
Post by: KellyG on June 20, 2011, 09:14:00 PM
This is the string across the handle.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/overhandle6-21-11.jpg)
and from the end
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/6-21-11.jpg)
So I guess now it is on with the show.
Post by: red hill on June 20, 2011, 09:23:00 PM
:thumbsup: Stan
Post by: Pat B on June 21, 2011, 12:05:00 AM
Post by: Don Drake on June 21, 2011, 08:42:00 AM
My next project is a stave that the seller said was cut a year ago. It has been taken down to one ring and polyed. I got it for $10.
Thanks,
Don
Post by: Don Drake on June 21, 2011, 08:45:00 AM
Post by: KellyG on June 21, 2011, 02:25:00 PM
Pat I got my marks from the gizmo I just need scrap them off. I am cutting back to 5 scraps at this point.
Don it is ok I have done that myself.
Post by: va on June 24, 2011, 10:28:00 AM
You have some serious dedication.
Look back at the first few pics and then look at the newest pics. Awesome work in diffcult circumstances.
va
Post by: KellyG on June 24, 2011, 07:09:00 PM
Ok I have her pulling to about 21" on the tree. Still looking stiff on the outer third of knotty or left limb. I pull it further in hand though, the tree makes me nervous. I bet I got it pulling 24" in hand, dont know what the weight is. We are in the process of closing down this part of the compound to turn it over to the Iraqis>. So thing are packed up, and the scale I was using is one of those things. I am sure it is over my target of 45#.
Ok some PICs here it is on the tree
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/6-25-111.jpg)
And a the handle with the tape measure on it
right at 21" to the back.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/6-25-112.jpg)
Ok now for the questions
First one tips mine are wide right at a 1/2" should I go ahead and narrow them now?
Brace Height what is a good start point for a long bow?
Thanks for looking,
Kelly
Post by: Stiks-n-Strings on June 24, 2011, 07:32:00 PM
You can narrow your tips now as well.
Post by: red hill on June 24, 2011, 10:08:00 PM
Stan
Post by: Pat B on June 24, 2011, 11:27:00 PM
Post by: KellyG on June 27, 2011, 06:30:00 PM
Post by: Pat B on June 27, 2011, 10:38:00 PM
Post by: Osagetree on June 28, 2011, 02:40:00 PM
Post by: fish n chicks on June 28, 2011, 02:53:00 PM
Be proud brother it's looking sweet!
Post by: KellyG on July 02, 2011, 02:39:00 PM
Post by: KellyG on July 05, 2011, 06:19:00 AM
Brace
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/fullbrace.jpg)
Here on the tree at 22inches, I can draw it to 25" in hand. I had someone mark an arrow as I drew it, then I measured it. It was dead on at 25" only 2 more to my draw length.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/22inch7-5-11.jpg)
That knotty limb is still flat look. I also have to gotten any set yet. I lay it belly down on the floor and measure the tips and both sit around 2" and after pulling it a few times and putting it on the tree I measure it and it is sitting at around the same on both tips.
Well what are the suggestions, and comments,
Kelly
Post by: KellyG on July 05, 2011, 08:31:00 AM
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/25inchdraw.jpg)
So how is this tease of a pic.
Post by: KellyG on July 05, 2011, 08:33:00 AM
Post by: fish n chicks on July 05, 2011, 10:39:00 AM
:biglaugh: It's lookin good bro!
Post by: don s on July 05, 2011, 11:12:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by KellyG:i agree. your full draw pic looks great. you've come a long way with that bow. i've been following your build from the start. you've had some really talented people to help guide you through. i never knew you were left handed. you should have mentioned it right away. the advice you have been getting is for a right handed bow. :bigsmyl: :clapper: good work. don
I think the difference is in the pics where it is on the tree, the twist makes it look flatter than it it really is. here the twist are away from the camera, I did take of some wood but not much only where the gizmo told me to.
Post by: fish n chicks on July 05, 2011, 03:22:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by don s::laughing: :laughing:
QuoteOriginally posted by KellyG:i agree. your full draw pic looks great. you've come a long way with that bow. i've been following your build from the start. you've had some really talented people to help guide you through. i never knew you were left handed. you should have mentioned it right away. the advice you have been getting is for a right handed bow. :bigsmyl: :clapper: good work. don [/b]
I think the difference is in the pics where it is on the tree, the twist makes it look flatter than it it really is. here the twist are away from the camera, I did take of some wood but not much only where the gizmo told me to.
Post by: red hill on July 05, 2011, 04:32:00 PM
Of course he's left-handed! Aren't all great people? LOL
Stan
Post by: Pat B on July 05, 2011, 04:45:00 PM
Post by: KellyG on July 05, 2011, 05:33:00 PM
I guess I will have to find a place to shoot her in. and the name "ugly duckling" why because if you see her she ain't pretty by no means. Plus there is a lot of character you cant see in the pics. The twist, knots, checks and just rough spots. One knot on the side is almost over hanging. But she is still a long way from finished. I have not done any handle work at all. the tips are massive, I do have a plan for them but lets shoot some arrows thru her and see.
thanks for all the help and support, from Jeremy and Semo who got me the stave, to pat and joe and the countless others with yalls sage advice.
Post by: don s on July 05, 2011, 07:10:00 PM
Post by: KellyG on July 06, 2011, 12:47:00 PM
I put 8 arrows thru her today, thru a bow I made. I was suprised there was no felt hand shock even with the extra mass on the tips. At 10yrds I could kill a deer with it now. I may do a little tip work on it but I am not messing with the handle yet. I need to ship it off soon to KS and once there I am sure it will suck in a little water and I may need to tiller it. Once that is done I will trim the handle down a little might add a rest but it shoot off the hand very well.
I will post pics of the first 2 arrows thru her later. Again thanks to all of you who made it possible. Don thanks for that draw knife, it will see a lot more wood if I can help it.
Post by: 4est trekker on July 06, 2011, 01:44:00 PM
Curt
Post by: J. Holden on July 06, 2011, 09:38:00 PM
-Jeremy :coffee:
Post by: WestTexan on July 06, 2011, 10:18:00 PM
Post by: KellyG on July 08, 2011, 06:48:00 AM
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/first2arrows.jpg)
I twisted the string a little tighter and it is spitting the arrows out with out any wobble that I can see. I shot about 10 more arrows thru it today.
I am done with it for now. Once back state side I will finish it up, the reason is everything I have read indicates that once back in a higher humidity I may have to re-tiller her, and my even gain some weight. I mean the temp today is 113 with 5% RH. I bet KS has a higher RH.
Thanks again gang for all the wood, tools and knowledge to get it this far.
Post by: J. Holden on July 08, 2011, 06:54:00 AM
-Jeremy :coffee:
Post by: Osagetree on July 08, 2011, 07:59:00 PM
Maybe you could seal it with some goat fat or something before sending it to KS? Might help with your moisture concern?
Can't wait to see you finish it off back home....
Joe
Post by: Osagetree on July 08, 2011, 08:01:00 PM
Thank you for your service Sir! :notworthy:
Post by: Stiks-n-Strings on July 11, 2011, 07:25:00 AM
Post by: KellyG on August 21, 2011, 08:23:00 AM
My question is on bow the the bow and the blank, can I put linseed oil on it and not hamper the ability to skin or even sinew them later.
thanks,
kelly
Post by: Pat B on August 21, 2011, 09:59:00 AM
Post by: KellyG on August 21, 2011, 02:16:00 PM
Post by: KellyG on September 02, 2011, 05:06:00 PM
Then back in the states I will dress up the one in this thread.
Thanks for looking,
Kelly
Post by: J. Holden on September 02, 2011, 08:24:00 PM
-Jeremy :coffee:
Post by: Roy from Pa on September 02, 2011, 08:34:00 PM
Post by: KellyG on September 02, 2011, 08:44:00 PM
Post by: KellyG on September 05, 2011, 12:10:00 AM
Post by: va on September 06, 2011, 09:24:00 AM
I am counting on shooting (at) something with you face to face. PM me when you are ready.
va
Post by: KellyG on September 06, 2011, 03:16:00 PM
Post by: va on September 06, 2011, 05:11:00 PM
Post by: KellyG on October 17, 2011, 04:10:00 PM
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on October 17, 2011, 04:19:00 PM
Post by: J. Holden on October 22, 2011, 11:28:00 AM
-Jeremy :coffee:
Post by: KellyG on October 27, 2011, 09:00:00 PM
Post by: dmikeyj on October 27, 2011, 10:08:00 PM
Have not used this stuff to make a string, maybe someone else has tried it?
Post by: Pat B on October 27, 2011, 11:16:00 PM
Artificial sinew will make a string but it has a lot of stretch. You can prestretch it but why? Do it right. Either use commercial bow string material or from scratch with natural fibers and other natural materials.
Post by: KellyG on October 27, 2011, 11:45:00 PM
Never heard of Doing The Twist but it sounds like it would be a big help.
I don't know what the tensile strengths of the stuff I have. It was just a 20yrd pack.
It is flat and 1/16" wide.
Thanks for your help.
Post by: Pat B on October 28, 2011, 08:34:00 AM
I'll get the string together and send it and the DVD out soon.
Post by: red hill on October 29, 2011, 03:55:00 PM
I have trouble with the second loop on a flemish twist string, also. The endless loop copied from Rob's how-to works well for me though.
Post by: Roy from Pa on October 29, 2011, 11:35:00 PM
Post by: Osagetree on October 30, 2011, 08:16:00 AM
I hate to see selbows with double ended loop strings,, not condusive to my minds idea of a selfbow set up. Just my thing I guess :dunno:
Post by: KellyG on October 30, 2011, 12:05:00 PM
Thanks for your input.
Post by: Pat B on October 30, 2011, 01:43:00 PM
Post by: KellyG on October 30, 2011, 06:48:00 PM
I used a piece single strand do serve the string. It is flinging arrows. I have a floppy rest and strike plate gluing on now.
I have cut out some leather for the handle. I have washed them with for they were some old black combat boots. I will post pics of that up later.
I have sanded the bow and finished out the nocks. Once the handle wrap is on I will true oil the bow. and get some pics up of it. I hope to be hunting with it next weekend if I can get my heads done.
Post by: Pat B on October 30, 2011, 11:30:00 PM
Post by: KellyG on October 30, 2011, 11:35:00 PM
Leather is from the tongue of and old combat boot.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/leatherforthegrip.jpg)
The wrap for the handle
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/Gripcutout.jpg)
The strike plate and rest
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/Strikeplateandrest.jpg)
OK wrap, rest and strike plate on the handle
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/putonthebow.jpg)
Now the bow with silencers on the string
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/Almostdone.jpg)
Now at full draw.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/teaster.jpg)
Ok I need to finish up the bow well put some true oil on it and I think we will call it done after that. I may find out what the draw weight is but I may not. I bet it is over 50#
Post by: Roy from Pa on October 31, 2011, 06:24:00 AM
Looks real nice Kelly and the tiller is sweet.
Congrats, Roy
Post by: KellyG on October 31, 2011, 06:32:00 AM
Post by: John Scifres on October 31, 2011, 01:00:00 PM
Nice job!
Post by: Osagetree on October 31, 2011, 03:41:00 PM
What where the specs again?
The handle wrap adds a deminsion only you'll remember. I like it! :clapper:
Now, get out there and get on a Kansas buck!
Post by: Pat B on October 31, 2011, 05:38:00 PM
Post by: Roy from Pa on October 31, 2011, 08:26:00 PM
Post by: red hill on October 31, 2011, 11:01:00 PM
Post by: Roy from Pa on October 31, 2011, 11:53:00 PM
Post by: KellyG on November 01, 2011, 02:00:00 PM
Once my claps get back I will put on some tip overlays just to do it and reduce the tips at that time.
I don't know what the pound age is, it is stronger then my 45# bow.
Oh Roy you can shoot it off your knuckles if you wish, Just come on out.
Once I finish up the arrows and broad heads I will put it to use. On any KS deer that passes, monster buck to a button buck, doe or fawns beware.
:)
Post by: crgibson on November 03, 2011, 07:41:00 AM
Just saw your bow, man its finished looks SUPER GOOD you must be stoked. Here is a good string making gig design when you get your string material together. You'll like making strings when you get it down LOOK OUT there will be no stopping Kelly.
Keep a keen eye your friend, Chuck (http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff371/enterprise401/FIG1.jpg)
Post by: KellyG on November 04, 2011, 12:00:00 AM
Post by: Pat B on November 04, 2011, 09:14:00 AM
Post by: KellyG on November 04, 2011, 05:40:00 PM
Post by: Pat B on November 04, 2011, 11:28:00 PM
Post by: KellyG on November 15, 2011, 10:17:00 PM
http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=110580
Post by: coaster500 on November 15, 2011, 10:37:00 PM
Super job :)
:clapper: :clapper: :clapper:
Post by: Roy from Pa on November 15, 2011, 10:38:00 PM
Post by: KellyG on November 16, 2011, 06:48:00 PM
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/Broken-1.jpg)
Good bye my friend, now where is my draw knife?
Post by: fujimo on November 16, 2011, 08:15:00 PM
so sorry man.
Post by: Pat B on November 16, 2011, 09:26:00 PM
I guess she gave you what you wanted but had no more to give.
Post by: J. Holden on November 16, 2011, 10:00:00 PM
-Jeremy :coffee:
Post by: Roy from Pa on November 16, 2011, 10:56:00 PM
Post by: KellyG on November 16, 2011, 11:38:00 PM
Pat I have my thoughts on why. If you look at the longer piece it is almost a straight break across the back. That short piece sandwiches between the other.
I think as I was drawing it, I may have over drawn it a little and it would not have been much. Plus it has been really dry here. We got some rain but really dry for the most part. So I think the RH dropped.
When she failed she blew, know creaking or anything all of a sudden, I had a take down.
I have it in my storage shed with my first try bow. I have not really decided what I want to do with it. I may use parts of it in other bows, or glue it back up and hang it with the deer.
Post by: dmikeyj on November 17, 2011, 12:04:00 AM
Shame it let go though, never a fun time.
Waiting for version 2.0...
Post by: Osagetree on November 17, 2011, 05:04:00 AM
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on November 17, 2011, 07:24:00 AM
Post by: razorback on November 17, 2011, 08:43:00 AM
On a slightly different note, how many had to change their pants after she blew. Bet it made a heck of a noise :)
Post by: Pat B on November 17, 2011, 09:29:00 AM
Post by: DVSHUNTER on November 17, 2011, 02:58:00 PM
Post by: KellyG on November 17, 2011, 04:36:00 PM
Pearl I think the buck proved that it is more then effective at what they were meant for. Everyone including me finds it really hard that I did it all like that. Funny I really don't know way though. It was done like that for thousands and thousands of years.
Next year God willing Stone or even bone points. I think I am going to try and tan part of his hide and make me a proper back quiver. :) Heck who knows maybe next year I may be hunting in buck skin.
Post by: Pat B on November 17, 2011, 11:56:00 PM
My goal in archery is to get as simple as possible and still be effective. You have proved it can be done(my definition of primitive is making what you need with what you have). I have no doubt that your next year deer(s) will be with stone and/or bone.
Post by: Shaun on November 18, 2011, 11:15:00 PM
Post by: Pat B on November 18, 2011, 11:31:00 PM
That is a special bow. I would leave it as it is and display it near that buck.
Post by: KellyG on November 18, 2011, 11:33:00 PM
Shaun I think that I over drew it. There is no knots are anything that I can see. Thanks I told the wife I would be showing off the pics and talking about it for a week just to warn her.
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on November 19, 2011, 05:42:00 AM
That's so cool that you made it while stationed in a hell hole away from your family, dreaming about chasing deer with the bow you had been working on. Plus you built it with nearly zero tools and basically working on a shoestring as far as tools available to you, then to come home and make that dream a Reality??!!?!!? Un-freaking-real Man!! :thumbsup: