Trad Gang

Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: Pat B on December 06, 2010, 04:03:00 PM

Title: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: Pat B on December 06, 2010, 04:03:00 PM
Why do I do this to myself?  I chose this stave to build a bow for the Primitive Archer Christmas Exchange, due by early January. As you can see it has a few issues but nothing too bad. I already put about 2 hours into where it is now. My one main concern is the kink in one limb. There is a bit of prop twist but I will get rid of that when I reflex it. Now it holds about 1 1/2" of deflex.
 I am going to document the whole process and I'm open to any suggestions as to deal with the kink.
So here it is...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/ChristmasExchange2010001.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/ChristmasExchange2010003.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/ChristmasExchange2010002.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/ChristmasExchange2010005.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/ChristmasExchange2010006.jpg)
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: KellyG on December 06, 2010, 04:09:00 PM
Ok pat B,
here is the only advise I have, put the skin back on that snake and let it go.
Kelly
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: J. Holden on December 06, 2010, 04:12:00 PM
I'll be interested to see how this one turns out.  We have faith in you Pat!

-Jeremy  :coffee:
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: Jack Denbow on December 06, 2010, 04:26:00 PM
Pat, you da man.  :thumbsup:  
Jack
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: 2treks on December 06, 2010, 05:07:00 PM
Pat, My fovorite selfbow to date is one that I made with Gary Davis a number of years ago(10+).
It was a small in diamiter log,about 5-6". and was worse of than the one you show. after I chased a ring and layed out the bow,Gary worked his magic with the band saw and steam tube. I followed it up with a number of heat gun treatments to get some more shape to the bow. After alot of work it was fasioned into a 68" eastern woodland style bow with about 2" of reflex. After MANY arrows it still holds about 1 1/2"+ reflex and shoots great. gary worked the other half of the log into a bow blank and a friend now shoots that. The ugly ones are a challenge but you are the man for the job,Your bows look great and I can't wait to see this one when finished.good job.
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: Pat B on December 06, 2010, 05:19:00 PM
Thanks Chuck. I wish I had Gary helping me on this one. d;^)   I really enjoy working on these challenging staves even if they don't work out. They are great teachers.
 A few years ago a friend gave me 3 osage "staves". They has every malady known to bowyers and probably should been used for fuel. I spent all winter working on them and by spring I had 5 shooter bows. Some pretty light in draw weight but all tillered well and all shot well. I learned more that winter than I did the almost 20 years before. Sometimes you just have to take the what you've got and do what you can. I think that winter I did make a silk purse out of 3 sows ears!
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: DanaM on December 07, 2010, 01:42:00 PM
That kink could be trouble, looks like getting the tips to line up may be the biggest issue. In my limited experience you can only straighten a kink so much before the wood rebels. Glad to see the Christmas Trade is on again this year, to bad I won't get to see any of the fine gifts.
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: NTD on December 07, 2010, 03:19:00 PM
Pat,
I'm sure you'll pull it off.  You've got way more patience and courage than I though  ;)

Dana,
I'm out of the loop on what happened but I miss seeing you over there.  Give me a call sometime. I think I have something you might like too if you want another lizard skin...:-)
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: razorback on December 07, 2010, 04:43:00 PM
Pat, like Dana said that kink looks troubling. Can you bend the straight parts above and below it in the other direction to bring the tip into line. This would save stressing the kink. You obviously know more than I do but was just thinking this might work.
Tony
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: hova on December 07, 2010, 05:31:00 PM
thats what i was thinking rzor , get as much of it straightened  , then bend the other side to even it up and make it look like you planned it that  way...


i love the way that stave looks.

-hov
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: Pat B on December 07, 2010, 06:23:00 PM
I pulled a string from tip to tip and it runs inside the handle area to one side. When I add the reflex I will straighten the limbs out somewhat and remove some of the twist. Like I said before this will take quite a few sessions to get it where it needs to be. I won't try to straighten out the kink. It is too sharp of a bend but I will try to get it to work with the rest of the limb.
 I will probably have to deside from time to time which way to go and see where that takes me before decising what to do next. This is basically how I like to build bows anyway...let the wood tell me what it wants to be.
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: 4est trekker on December 07, 2010, 06:33:00 PM
I love the kink!  Can't wait to see the progress, Pat!  You'll get a bow out of it for sure.
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: hova on December 07, 2010, 07:07:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by 4est trekker:
I love the kink!
o.O
____


-hov
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: hova on December 07, 2010, 07:09:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by 4est trekker:
I love the kink!
o.O
____

-hov
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: Pat B on December 08, 2010, 05:33:00 PM
I cut the stave to shape and reduced the limb thickness to about 5/8". Because of the extreme bends and twists I chose to work on one limb at a time and a lkittle at a time. Here is the stave before the initial straightening.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/ChristmasExchange2010007.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/ChristmasExchange2010008.jpg)

During the heating and clamping...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/ChristmasExchange2010013.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/ChristmasExchange2010012.jpg)

and after it cooled and was unclamped. Now remember this is the first of probably many sessions.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/ChristmasExchange2010017.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/ChristmasExchange2010016.jpg)
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: DVSHUNTER on December 08, 2010, 07:18:00 PM
Pat,
That's a fine start. I usually don't heat my staves with that much meat on them, but it looks like you know what your doing. ;-)  I'm with you on the difficult staves. I normally sell all my best staves and keep the bad stuff for myself. After you turn those crazy things into bows you don't remember the repeated heatings and hours of extra labor... Or they break! Haha. I have always wanted to make an S bow like the one that won the bow of the year a few years ago on PA's website. Your would be a good canidate. Good luck and can't wait to see the finished bow.
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: Pat B on December 08, 2010, 11:22:00 PM
I might be changing my directions on this bow and only take the deflex out and a bit of the twist and begin tillering. See where that takes me.
 I usually do some of my initial straightening with the limbs this thick(5/8") After I do a bit of correcting on the other limb I will begin to step down the thickness in small incriments and get her to bending. This helps to keep me on track and not get in a rush.
 I'm not sure how the kink will react so I'll take that limb real slow. That form I am using on the limbs has a gradual bend so it is easy on the bending.
 I can't wait to see the finished bow either! d;^)
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: DanaM on December 09, 2010, 01:15:00 PM
Pat it looks like it responded nicely in that session, slow and steady eh.
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: Pat B on December 09, 2010, 01:44:00 PM
You got it Dana, especially with this one. Heading down to the basement now to work on the kinked limb.
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: Pat B on December 09, 2010, 05:29:00 PM
Did a bit of heating on the kinky limb mainly to add reflex but I also took out the hump at the kink. There is still a dog leg left but that will be part of the character of the bow. Tillering begins soon.
Here is the bimb clamped to the form after heating.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/ChristmasExchange2010018.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/ChristmasExchange2010019.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/ChristmasExchange2010020.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/ChristmasExchange2010021.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/ChristmasExchange2010013.jpg)
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: Pat B on December 09, 2010, 05:34:00 PM
...and after unclamped. The wood wedge is where the hump was. From here out it will be tillering only except for of a possible alignment heating near the end of the build.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/ChristmasExchange2010022.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/ChristmasExchange2010023.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/ChristmasExchange2010024.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/ChristmasExchange2010025.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/ChristmasExchange2010026.jpg)
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: hova on December 09, 2010, 05:53:00 PM
i knew you could do it...now get to the full draw pic already!!!
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: jonathan creason on December 09, 2010, 09:42:00 PM
I can't wait to see how this one turns out, Pat.
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: Pat B on December 10, 2010, 12:00:00 AM
We have bad weather coming this weekend. Looks like a basement weekend to me! d;^)...except for some pre Christmas house cleaning. d;^(  
Will be reducing wood and begin tillering. I'm as curious as the rest of you as to how this will turn out but so far, all things look good.
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: hova on December 10, 2010, 12:47:00 AM
yeah thats what i hear we have all over the country...i really got to get a house so i can have my shop in the basement... been wanting to glue some stuff up and work on some hide glue and sinew , but that is NOT happening her at the inlaws....


hmmm...torpedo heather or bandsaw...
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: Pat B on December 10, 2010, 09:10:00 AM
Bandsaw!!!  d;^)
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: DanaM on December 10, 2010, 01:37:00 PM
Have you decided on which limb is to be the top?
Merry Christmas Pat
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: Pat B on December 10, 2010, 01:56:00 PM
Not for sure yet, Dana but probably the one with the kink. I want to see how the string tracks after first low brace before I decide for sure. Heck, I might make both limbs the top(or bottom) limb! d;^).
 I reduced the limb thickness from 5/8" to about 1/2", straightened up the sides with rasp and scraper and rounded all the sharp edges. Will get it floor tillered and maybe farther this weekend.
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: DanaM on December 10, 2010, 07:37:00 PM
My first inclination is to make the kinked limb thje top limb as generally there is less stress on the topside.
Hows your back doing Pat looks like some snow heading your way and I know how much you like to sled eh:)
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: Pat B on December 10, 2010, 08:01:00 PM
Back is doing fine. I worked all the kinks out of it this past summer doing landscape work. They are calling for maybe 3" on Sunday evening but I'll believe it when it gets here. Hillbilly has been getting the lake effect snow from the Great Lakes lately. He lives on the other side of the mountains from me. We live in a snow shadow. Sled is waxed!
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: hova on December 10, 2010, 08:18:00 PM
i was htinking as long as you dont get twist out of that kink , top limb would be my bet too..


and they have called for 12" here...got the ol snowboard out and dusted it off... we'll see if the ol lady believes me that my leg is 100% healed...


pat : the town close up shop yet? i got an uncle in littleton , and last time i was there , i brought a couple inches , and they said "snow" on the news , and it was a ghost town...


-hov
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: Pat B on December 10, 2010, 10:40:00 PM
It doesn't take much to shut down the schools. If the roads are icy in these mountains nobody wants to drive the school bus. Won't know that til Sunday evening.
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: Pat B on December 12, 2010, 01:35:00 PM
We got 3 1/2" last night. It should stay around for a while. High temp today was 39 but it has already started dropping. will be single digits next week.
  I got this bow bending pretty good for starts and got her braced very low with the string just above the handle. You can see I still need to adjust the string tracking but not too much.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/ChristmasExchange2010027.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/ChristmasExchange2010028.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/ChristmasExchange2010029.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/ChristmasExchange2010030.jpg)
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: hova on December 12, 2010, 06:07:00 PM
i think its comin along. looks like a tiny hinge in that left limb.


as for string alignment , just call it centershot and be done  :D


-hov
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: Pat B on December 12, 2010, 06:13:00 PM
That tiny hinge is where the kink is. It is a bit deflexed there.
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: DanaM on December 13, 2010, 11:36:00 AM
Lookin good Pat, someone is going to be very happy when it arrives in the mail. I need to get to scraping on some wood, but all I've been doing is working and snowblowing, the only scraping I'm doing is on my windshield LOL
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: Pat B on December 16, 2010, 12:58:00 PM
Well I didn't have a chance to work on her for the last few days but today I did. She is tillered out to 45#@22"(final draw 45#@24"). I have tapered the limb tips(not final), rounded the edges and now in the process of heat treating the belly(on kinked limb) while adding some reflex and take out a little twist. When this one cools completely I will do the same on the other limb.
These first 2 pics show pretty good string tracking at low brace(2") and drawn to 14".
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/ChristmasExchange2010033.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/ChristmasExchange2010034.jpg)

These 2 pics show the limb clamped to the reflex form with clamps and wedges placed for removing the twist and the heat treating color of the belly.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/ChristmasExchange2010035.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/ChristmasExchange2010036.jpg)
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: Walt Francis on December 17, 2010, 12:24:00 AM
Pat,
That stave looks like fun!  As usual, your tiller is spot on.  The stave reminds me of a pair of sister staves that I had with similar doglegs and 45-50 degrees of twist from one end to the other, they both made good bows...after a lot of dry heat and time on the caul.  

Keep it coming, you have almost inspired me to finish one of the ugly staves I've had waiting in the corner for several years.
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: Osagetree on December 17, 2010, 05:00:00 AM
Looks real, real good Pat!


Still no blood on Flip Flop yet  :o
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: Pat B on December 17, 2010, 09:11:00 AM
Thanks Walt. As you know, these staves sure teach you a lot if you let them.
Too bad, Joe. Do you have more hunting this year?  Seem like I've found a new way to help with the winter time blues...character osage bows!! Never a dull moment. Flip Flop got the juices flowing for sure!!!
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: ron w on December 18, 2010, 07:17:00 PM
All I can say is WOW......you are an Artist with Osage Pat!   :notworthy:    :notworthy:
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: Pat B on December 18, 2010, 11:09:00 PM
Ron, we'll see after 100 shots! d;^)
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: snag on December 19, 2010, 12:51:00 PM
Pat are you going to straighten the limbs anymore to get the string to be centered over the handle...or not?
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: Pat B on December 19, 2010, 01:45:00 PM
Snag, The string does cross the handle and that's what matters. The dog leg will remain. I'm all done with heating unless I need a final tweak. I'm in the process of adding tip overlays then I will shape the tips and work on the handle. Once I have them done I will complete the tiller and get around to dressing her up for Christmas (snake skins)...although she won't be to her destination by Christmas she will hopefully be there a few days after.
 The pics below are of where she was after tempering the belly and adding reflex with the final heating. You can see the coloration from the heating on the belly after sanding it. Both limbs were tempered...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/ChristmasExchange2010040.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/ChristmasExchange2010041.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/ChristmasExchange2010043.jpg)
 Normally I leave the tips and handle area untouched until after full draw tiller but due to the limited time restraints I'm doing what I can while other things are curing, drying or whatever.
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: DanaM on December 19, 2010, 05:21:00 PM
Looks real good Pat
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: Pat B on December 19, 2010, 06:02:00 PM
FRET!!!   d:^(
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: KellyG on December 19, 2010, 06:31:00 PM
Can you fix it or is it too bad.
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: broketooth on December 19, 2010, 07:14:00 PM
mr pat can you show us what the fret looks like and how to fix it
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: Pat B on December 19, 2010, 07:59:00 PM
The fret is right in the crook. I heated the area and added super glue but a better patch will be necessaey if she is to survive. While waiting for her to rehydrate after heat treating, today I added tip overlays and shaped the tips and added leather on the back of the handle and shaped it and the handle and I did most of the final sanding when I found the fret. Glad I found it now and not the recipient finding it the hard way later.
 Ruddy, I took a pic of the fret after I super glued it so it doesn't  show up well and I'm up for suggestions from the peanut gallery as how to, if possible, fix it!
Here is how she looks and a pic of the fret area.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/ChristmasExchange2010044.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/ChristmasExchange2010047.jpg)
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: broketooth on December 19, 2010, 08:08:00 PM
im assuming that the fret is on the belly side, is it pissible to slice into it remove some wood from undernieth the fret and repatch i also realize that because of the crook this is a stiff area in the limb. or remove the fret pack it full of glue and osage dust and then do a sinew wrap on the affected area
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: broketooth on December 19, 2010, 08:09:00 PM
i meant possible lol sorry about my poor spelling, its not one of my strong points
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: Pat B on December 19, 2010, 10:16:00 PM
Ruddy, I think this one is pissible! d;^)  Yes the fret is on the belly. It is a compression fracture; the wood bends more where the fret is than the surrounding area and causes the grain to break under compression. The only way to relieve the fretted area is to thin the wood on either side.
 I have seen where the fretted wood was removed and another piece of similar wood glued in and I have seen rawhide and sinew patches. I'm just not sure how any will work with the fret right in that kink in the limb.
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: Walt Francis on December 19, 2010, 10:35:00 PM
Pat,  A fret is tough to swallow after so much work, want to guess how I know.  
On several occasions, when the fret was caught early enough in the tillering process, I was able to scrape away the fret and then weaken both side of the limb.  The fret area became 1-2 inch non-working part of the limb.  On a couple of other bows when I wouldn't make weight with the first fix or it wouldn't work,  I cut out the fret area and replaced it with a patch/plug.  I read about the patch/plug technique on the other site, before this one existed, and then a couple of years later Dean Torges wrote an article on the process in either TBM or Primitive Archer.  I had mixed results with the patch/plug method, with a 50/50 success rate before Dean's article.  After reading Deans article and following his method I was successful on two of three repairs.  The patches/plugs are not aesthetically pleasing, so when I became proficient at the fish tail splice and making takedowns I quit using this method.  Now I cut the bad limb off, throw it in the scrap pile, and set the good limb in a bucket until several discarded limbs become available from other attempts, and then either splice together the good limbs or make takedown bows.  The final product looks and performs much better.

The other thing that might work to save this bow, if the first technique described above is not viable, is to add sinew or another type of backing that works (Hickory, Boo, ect...).  This moves the neutral area to the back of the bow, or father from the belly, and might allow you to use the first technique described above.  This has successfully worked for me twice, both times with sinew.
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: Walt Francis on December 19, 2010, 10:48:00 PM
Just throwing out ideas:

Won't work on this bow because it is so snaky, but on a straight bow, you might be able to back it with boo and place the node over the fret?  The node might create a stiff spot that would stop the fret from bending/working and allow you to remove it.
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: Pat B on December 19, 2010, 10:50:00 PM
Thanks Walt. If you build enough wood bows you see plenty of these maladies and eventually learn to live with them.  It is all part of making wood bows...as you very well know!
 I will do my best to repair this bow as it is but if all else fails I'll take your suggestion and start a "takedown" bucket. I already have a "corner of shame" and have made a few pretty good bows from ones that were banished there.
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: Art B on December 20, 2010, 08:26:00 AM
Pat, those frets are pretty easy to repair using the dish method. And is the easiest and simplest way for most belly repairs IMO. Makes for a strong, yet fairly decent looking repair job. Had some pics of the process I use but evidently lost 'em somehow.


What you want to do is rasp down (dish like) the area to be repaired and prepare for a flexible patch replacement. Say, you remove 2/32" wood you will need to replace with 3/32" flexible patch for example. That will give you enough excess wood to clean things up with. Urac should be used instead of the Tite-bond glue for maximum strength.

The trick here is to use a flexible enough piece of wood that will conform to the dished out area. Obviously, the deeper the fret goes the longer the patch must be for flexiblity. Good luck........Art
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: Pat B on December 20, 2010, 09:03:00 AM
Art, Do you think even in the crook with the leverage from the offset limb tip it is an option?   If so, how big of a dished area should I make. I remember reading Dean Torges'ethod where he used a 3" sanding drum to remove the fret and replaced it with a piece of wood that ma=tched the diameter of the drum. Is that what you are talking about?
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: Art B on December 20, 2010, 02:11:00 PM
I don't have any doubt that it'll work Pat. Those doglegs are always a problem for me. I just leave that area alone and do my straightening on either side of the dogleg anymore.


With that slightly radiused belly profile what you're looing for is something similar to a football patch once finished. I would start out by placing some masking tape (around the limb) about 1 1/2" on either side (total of 3" in length) of the fret and dish out about 1/32" deep. If the fret is still there then go on down. But the deeper you go you'll probably have to move the masking tape further apart creating a longer patch.

You can make these patches as small/large as you like but the repair slat you're going to be using must be fexible enough to conform the the dished out area. I've used as many as three thin slats sometimes to achieve this. I use a slightly round sanding block to clean-up/sand the dished-out area.

Will keep looking for some pics.........Art
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: broketooth on December 20, 2010, 02:27:00 PM
that would be an interesting tuturial art. i would be interestied in seeing that done. ruddy
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: Pat B on December 20, 2010, 04:28:00 PM
Art, I've seen one or two of those patches on bows you made. I don't remember which ones though.   Are you using a wood rasp or power tool to "dish" out the fret? And how thin should the patch pieces be, 1/16", more, less? I have Urac in my basement frig!
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: Art B on December 20, 2010, 05:49:00 PM
I first use a wood rasp Pat. Then clean that up using a large flat bastard file. I made me up a oval shaped sanding block to dress up the dished area.

Best to get a good measurment using a caliper before you start. I usually take the area down 1/16" at a time until the fret disappears.

Lost a bunch of pics awhile back and I reckon the ones I wanted where in it......Art
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: KellyG on December 20, 2010, 06:12:00 PM
Question if I may. Could you thin the limbs down and make a new belly. I mean that is what you would do if you were putting horn on the belly. But could IPE or something else be used to make a belly. I know on this one it is the snaky limbs that would cause issues because you would have to heat and bend the belly to match and might not be possible. Could you glue on a new belly?
Kelly
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: Art B on December 20, 2010, 07:08:00 PM
Yeah, it's possible to do that also Kelly. Or you can save a damaged bow with a bad belly and use the pristine back to re-back a damaged bow. Lots of possibilities......Art
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: Pat B on December 20, 2010, 07:43:00 PM
Thanks Art. It will be after Christmas before I can get to it but even if this doesn't work I have other opyions...Mate 2 orphaned limbs into a bow!
Kelly, I did that on my osage static recurve but it has straight limbs. If this had straight limbs I would do that but with these snaky and offset limbs it would be tricky at best.
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: Stiks-n-Strings on December 20, 2010, 09:26:00 PM
I'm sure you'll make a shooter out of it Pat.

Stiks
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: DVSHUNTER on December 20, 2010, 10:46:00 PM
Pat,
I must have missed the length measurement for this bow somewhere, but it looks to be plenty long for a 24in. draw. If that's the case, maybe just chopping it down to gain weight and then retillering her would allow you to remove the fret from the belly. I have done that before with good results, but I like shorter bows. I just thought that it might be easier than some of the other fixes.
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: Pat B on December 20, 2010, 11:37:00 PM
We'll see Kris. It will be after the first of the year before I mess with it.
DVS, The bow is 60"t/t(58n/n). If I cut it off at the fret it would be 48" long but I have already shaped the handle so that won't work anyway.
 I normally wouldn't shape the handle or tips until the tillering is all but done for this very reason. You put all that purtying up into a bow just to have something like this happen. I was in a rush(big mistake) to get her done and sent out before Christmas or right after.
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: DVSHUNTER on December 21, 2010, 12:08:00 AM
pat, I still think you could cut a two inches off the length, not cut out the fret. If you were looking for 45@24 you might gain anywhere from five to eight pounds. After cutting it and retillering the belly the small fret may come out while you drop the weight.
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: red hill on December 21, 2010, 08:04:00 PM
This is turning into a great teaching/learning thread.  Gonna keep watching and following along to see how you pull this one off, Pat.
Good luck,
Stan
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: ber643 on December 23, 2010, 09:05:00 AM
Pat, this is the first time I've looked at this thread and so of course have read it all the way through - at one sitting. I'm dizzy now and have a severe headache. I may take something strong and go back to bed - just out of empathy for you -     :rolleyes:      :D   You are really something else, my friend. May you continue on to final success with this nightmare - and an ultimate return to a healthy mind     :biglaugh:
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: Pat B on December 23, 2010, 09:44:00 AM
Bernie, after building wood bows for as long as I have I have gotten used to these sorts of things. I get bummed at first but soon get over it and move on to the next. If you let it get to you it gets too frustrating and can kill the passion.
 I purposely picked another difficult stave for this project like I did for the TG bow trade last winter. It helps me learn more about the wood, the process and myself. I knew going in that there might be a 50/50 chance of success so then the /50 happens I try to move on. I will do what I can(after the New Year) to make this bow work. I have gotten some good advise from a few folks in the know, like Art Butner and others, so I'm probably at the 50/50 place once again with this one. I truely hope it works out but if not, I have learned from the experience so it is not a failure and never will be.
Title: Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
Post by: ber643 on December 23, 2010, 11:27:00 AM
How true, and a good outlook.