Trad Gang
Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: red hill on August 07, 2010, 04:16:00 PM
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Alright, guys, I've tiptoed around the pool and dabble my toe in with a question every now and then. Now I'm trying to actually get a post with pics.
I'm working on a HBH stave from 3 Rivers. The tiller looks good to me but the bow is way too strong.
At 69" tip-to-tip I plan to have nocks 67" apart. The hickory backing is under 1/8". The glued up stave tapers from 5/8" to 3/8" and is 1 3/4" wide tapered to 1/2".
I've tillered on the long string and had it braced at a low height, mayber 3". Any thoughts on how to reduce weight? Scrapping the belly, or reducing on the width?
I know, I know... PICS! I'm working on it.
Stan
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You can do either but you will get more positive effects from scraping the belly. Keep the belly as flat as possible! I generally don't reduce weight by scraping the sides unless the limbs are getting too thin. I do scrape the sides to square them up if needed.
You will have to use photobucket to be able to post pics. Be sure to reset photobucket so your pics come out 640x480.
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I would suggest taking material off with a scraper on the belly. Hickory is best to be left a bit on the wider side. Your 1 3/4" width at the fades sounds good.
Go slow as a little of the thickness goes a long way. Exercise the bow after each scraping too.
Good luck and looking forward to those pictures.
Rick
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I have read, that if you double the width of the bow, you double the weight. If you double the thickness of the bow, you actually increase the bowweight by a factor of 8.
This translated is, that a very little wood removed from the belly goes a long way in reducing the weight of the bow, where if removed from the sides it would actually not matter so much.
I am a bit tired right now, and I am not sure this is correct, but I think that if you were to remove 1/8 of the material from the belly, you would actually half the weight of the bow?
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I read that in the TBB vol I, DogVilleDane. Pat, I worked on photobucket most of the afternoon. Guess I'll have to get my son to do it for me. I thought removal from the belly would be best, just wanted to hear it from someone with more know how. Chupa, I exercise the limbs by pulling 50 times on the tiller tree after scraping a little. I'm a little "gun" shy after breaking a couple of bows lately. But I read on a post here that "if you ain't breakin', you ain't makin'!"
Thanks, guys
Stan
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Sounds like you are on the way to success Stan.
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If you've just moved from the long to the short string and it's way too strong, scraping should come after rasping. I make a squiggly line down the length of the limb then rasp it off, scrape it smooth and put it back on the tree. I have to do this sometimes 5-10 times before it's bending much at all. If you haven't already, make a gizmo and round over your edges so you don't lift a splinter.
Good luck.
Joel
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Go get'em Stan,,, you can do it!
Register at photobucket
Select upload photo size for web sites
On your home page or your default album there is a bar says UPLAOD, click on it
A window opens so you can select photos from your computer files
Double click the file photo name and it uplaods, save pic in photo at the bottom of that page.
Hold courser over photo and a drop down window opens.
left click the one selection starting with IMG at the bottom of drop down window and it will turn blue
Right click it again and select copy
Go to your thread and right click and select paste.
Click add reply at tgang thread window.
That's it.
Get your Son involved if that dont work!!!
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ive used scrapinbg the sides of limbs to help tiller, and i gotta say if the bow is too strong youre going to have alot of scraping to do off the width.lol. the one i did like this actually ended up changing the limb taper, and i still had to go back to scraping the belly because it wasnt enough. really like pat said scraping the sides is best when you have a very thin limb.(something like a short wide pyramid bow)
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Took a little of everyone's advice this morning. I rasped and scraped the belly, tillered with the gizmo, and now it is pulling about 55 lbs. I'll have a pic of draw at 25" soon, I hope. Since my draw length is 26" that should show a good look at what my bow will be like at full draw. Used a bathroom scale and tiller stick to come up with a weight.
Shot 15 arrows from 20-25 feet. This thing shot pretty fast.
Stan
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cool, glad its going along well. just be sure that the tiller is good before you get it to full draw too many times, especially stiff spots as they dont bend and can eventually give.
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(http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae45/stansims/100_0127.jpg)
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All right! There she is, boys. I realize this pic is way too big. I'll do better later. This is @ 25". Any suggestions are appreciated.
Stan
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The right limb looks a bit stiff mid limb. It also looks thicker but that could be an illusion.
Have you tried Eric's Gizmo on this bow while you are tillering? You'll be surprised how much it helps!
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Thanks, Pat. Yes I've used the gizmo. But I'll check it again.
Stan
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right limb looks stiff in the middle third, if you can get that worked out then go from there to catch that limb up with the left as best you can. also watch your tips, leave them stiffer for 5 inches or so so you can narrow them later, in case it has any handshock or a problem of string alignment arises.
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Here's the pic after I rechecked with Eric's gizmo and scraped several times.
Stan (http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae45/stansims/bows/100_0128.jpg)
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looks pretty good to me. is this at low brace still? if so you need to get it to normal brace, and start to work toward your intended draw weight. very nice though, congrats on it making it this far.
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Yeah, Walkabout, it's still at low brace. I'll get to full brace later today. Gotta go pick up my wife, she's been in TN and KY on a "yard sale" tour.
Stan
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I have a question regarding "set". My HBH has taken about 1 3/8" set. Is this a problem? I measured from where a straight limb tip should be when laid on a flat surface to where the tip is actually located. Did I measure correctly? It looks like a greater distance when veiwed away from a flat surface. I was surprised the measurements was low.
I'll post pics tonight. Can't post at work.
Stan
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many people will tell you that a bow with some string follow will shoot better and more accurately. 1 3/8" isnt too bad, most ive gotten was about 2" with a board bow that wasnt great wood to begin with.ideally gluing in some reflex would help to even things out, nothing like a recurve is needed but a nice gradual reflex wont hurt. In TBB (not sure which volume) they explain that one of the best performing designs is similar to a pyramid, with wide inner limbs out of the fades, to take the stress that causes set and localize it there rather than spreading it out over the whole limb.
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Richard, I think it was in TBB I, that's the only one I have so far. I read that as well. I didn't think about glueing in reflex when I began this bow.
Thanks,
Stan
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no problem.as for how to glue in reflex you have a few options, and ive seen them all used with success. first being building a caul/form, which almost everyone who builds laminates use, although not dual purpose. i personally recently build a caul for heat bending, and as long as the surface stays flat and true i will use it to glue up any laminates i make as well. it seems to have just the right gradual curve for my liking. its 2 1x6 that are screwed together, although i plan on adding a strip of plywood together to make it the full 2" wide. the curve i cut was following a post i found while searching the term"caul", its pretty straightforward. the other option would be putting blocks under the tips and then clamping the handle down to a bench or 2X4, the length of the blocks dictating the amount of reflex. im sure this method would work great as long as you keep the laminations lined up. also, google books has previews of quite a few of TBB series, although some of the material is missing they are good references for much of it until you can buy them.
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Thanks, Richard. (http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae45/stansims/bows/100_0132.jpg)
Here is a pic of the bow unstrung.
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Here it is braced. (http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae45/stansims/bows/100_0138.jpg)
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Here it is braced. (http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae45/stansims/bows/100_0138.jpg)
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Sorry about the size and double posted pic.
Here it is at low draw.
(http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae45/stansims/bows/100_0139.jpg)
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i wouldnt complain about the set at all, i think it looks about right for most.pics are a bit fuzzy so i cant really give a comment about tiller, but judging from the top edges of the limbs looks like theyre bending pretty evenly across the limbs. how long is your handle if i might ask?
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(http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae45/stansims/bows/100_0143.jpg)
Here is the bow at a full 26" draw. I've tried to resize pics. Get is down soon.
Stan
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Richard, the handle tapers from 5 1/2" to 3 1/2". Measured from the where the osage tapers into the hickory.
Stan
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looks pretty good to me, did you designate a top limb for positive tiller yet? it looks like the left limb is pulling a little further,if it is id make that one the top. good job though, did you hit near your intended weight?
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The left limb is 1" longer than the left, I'll use it as the top limb. I was hoping for a hunting weight bow somewhere around 50-55 lbs. Using a tiller stick and bathroom scale I estimate the pull at 55-57 lbs. Of course this isn't accurate. I thought after shoot-in and tillering the weight would drop a little. Final sanding and finishing will also reduce poundage, won't it?
This is about the 8th bow I have made since December. Most of the others were board bows made by Sam Harper's site and 4est trekker's site. The pyramid bow I made following 4est's thread is still shooting well and is in the mid 40 lb range. I shoot it well. I attempted an osage from billets ordered from 3rivers, but it exploded on the first attempted flex. Ahhhhhhhhh!
Thanks for all your input, guys
Stan
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finish sanding and such will drop it by a bit but ive never seen anything substantial. of course i do round everything off at variuos stages so i get a more accurate final draw weight. im guessing with finish and sanding maybe 5 lbs tops.
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Well done.
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Thanks, Joel.
Stan
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Looks very good, Stan. What's the draw length you want? If you want more leave the last 10 in alone and scrape the fades out to mid limb. Jawge
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My draw is about 26", Jawge. It feels good when I shoot. Quite a bit stronger than my board bows. Now I just need to shoot it in and finish it. Was thinking about using Osagetree's camo-stain technique. I've wanted to do that since he posted it and explained the process.
I really appreciate the input from everyone. Hopefully by the next bow trade I'll have gained enough experience and skill to participate.
Thanks, guys
Stan
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Alright! I finished this bow and was able to shoot it today. It shoots well to me and I guess that's what counts.
It is hickory backed hickory with osage accents and handle. The length is 67" nock-to-nock. Draw weight is roughly 50-53 lbs. at 26" draw. I put a leather wrap on the handle but need to glue it in place. Deer antler arrow rest with velcro strike pad and arrow pad. The string is my on make of yellow and brown B-50.
I tried Joe's camo staining but it didn't work out. So I cleaned it off and used a medium stain over the entire bow and finished off with a few coats of clear polyurethane.
This bugger is hunting this fall! Thanks for the help and encouragement guys.
(http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae45/stansims/bows/100_0150.jpg)
(http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae45/stansims/bows/100_0154.jpg)
(http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae45/stansims/bows/100_0156.jpg) (http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae45/stansims/bows/100_0158.jpg)
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Wanted to add an update to this thread...
After 5 weeks, 4 missed shots, and numerous blown opportunities I finally connected with a doe!
(http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae45/stansims/deer%20pics/th_101_0160.jpg) (http://s956.photobucket.com/albums/ae45/stansims/deer%20pics/?action=view¤t=101_0160.jpg)
I used the 42 lb. hickory longbow with a 28" carbon express shaft tipped with an old Bear Razorhead.
The shot was less than perfect because she bolted as I released the arrow from 17 yards away. The broadhead entered the left hind quarter, actually cut through the femur severing the femoral artery and lodged in the abdominal cavity behind and above the stomach.
I knew the hit was solid, even if far back, so I waited for one hour before trailing. There was a good blood trail at first. She fell after about 8o yards and broke the shaft off. From there there was literaly no blood. As I knelt where the shaft was found, I looked up and saw her struggling through the hardwoods. I backed out for another hour before continueing but still didn't find more blood.
I've always been persistent in searching for game. I came upon the doe laying in an over-grown logging road in a small mass of pine saplings. I didn't stop even though she was only 8 yards away. I took one more step, slipped an arrow onto the string and turned only to have her bolt once more.
One more hour later I came back, found where she had been and was disappointed to find only a little blood. While kneeling to examine the blood, I heard a deer moving through the brush up ahead. I continued to look for blood thinking it may have been a different deer. After 45 minutes of no blood and no deer I returned to the last blood, back in the logging road. As I started out again, I heard the deer movement once more and realized it had to be her.
I came upon her after another 60-70 yards and she was down. I was there for her final moments.
This was a thrilling hunt. I arrowed the doe at 7:00 am and tagged her at 11:30 am.
Sorry this post is so long. The feelings of accomplishment are so strong it's hard to explain. I think you guys understand.
(http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae45/stansims/deer%20pics/th_101_0163.jpg) (http://s956.photobucket.com/albums/ae45/stansims/deer%20pics/?action=view¤t=101_0163.jpg)
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excellent job and nice bow.
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That is so awsome! Good for you!
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Good job and way to stick with it.
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Outstanding! Jawge
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Congrats.
Sounds like you may be ready for the next bow swap. It'll be here before you know it.
Stiks
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forgot there was another 3 pages , lol.
great bow and a great doe!
-hov
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Sir I must tell you this
"You definately have the sickness"
Congratulations
Mike
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Mike, you're more right than you know!
I'm thinking about bringing my shaving bench to the classroom to show my students how I try to make bows. Some of them want me to make bows for them... Also been kicking around the idea of tanning deer hides as a chemistry lab but my principal turned his nose up to that. He's a whimp anyway! LOL
Stan