Trad Gang

Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: TradBowyer on August 02, 2009, 01:42:00 PM

Title: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: TradBowyer on August 02, 2009, 01:42:00 PM
DWT was the St Judes auction winner of a custom Dry Ridge Archery bow. He was interested in some pics and i've never done a build a long before so I thought...why not?? Unfortunately, we lost our camera for a period of time so the glueups of the limb were done with no photographic evidence. but we'll try to make it up from here on out...the bow requested is a T/D longbow..bloodwood and osage footed riser. The limbs are going to be osage on the belly and snake skins on the front. Because we are using snakes, i used black glass on the back to help them stand out better. Here are the components...the 2 glued limbs, the bloodwood and osage riser blocks

 (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b252/timduvall/390.jpg)

we will start with the riser. I'm doing the riser in 2 steps. The first step will glue the 2 blocks together and the next step will be the cutting and glueing of the "swoosh". I use Urac185 for the riser glueup..the ratio of the 2 components are 13:100...doing the math, I use 1.2 grams of powder to 8.9 grams of liquid. Since I'm gluing a total of 4 surfaces (bloodwood, osage,and a thin accent), I'll double this mixture.
  (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b252/timduvall/391.jpg)

  (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b252/timduvall/392.jpg)

When combined, you get a dark slurry mixture

  (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b252/timduvall/393.jpg)

Here are the riser pieces clamped and ready to go into the 100 degree box.

  (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b252/timduvall/394.jpg)

We will pick up on  Monday. thanks for following along
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: Dano on August 02, 2009, 01:56:00 PM
We like build a longs!!!    :bigsmyl:
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: dutchwarbow on August 02, 2009, 07:26:00 PM
yeah dano, we sure do! this looks the start of a great one  :D

Nick
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: DWT on August 02, 2009, 08:59:00 PM
The coolest thing about this build along is that it eventually is coming to my house. Looks good so far Tim.
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: Peckerwood on August 04, 2009, 10:59:00 PM
:wavey:  Question - does the Urac185 dry clear ?
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: Dano on August 04, 2009, 11:01:00 PM
Nope, light brown.
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: kennym on August 04, 2009, 11:16:00 PM
I like it!!  More,more!!
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: TradBowyer on August 10, 2009, 11:51:00 PM
I got the rest of the riser glued and cured...ready to go put this bow all together now. Its late...I"ll load the pics tomorrow. Stay tuned
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: dutchwarbow on August 11, 2009, 08:41:00 PM
aahhh  :)  sounds good!
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: Shore08 on August 11, 2009, 08:47:00 PM
What a great idea (the build along on the St. Jude's bow).
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: TradBowyer on August 11, 2009, 10:04:00 PM
ok here we go...round 2...after the initial riser glueup, i flatten on side for a square surface and draw the swoosh

 (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b252/timduvall/DSC01021.jpg)

I cut this out on the bandsaw and sand with a spindle sander to flatten adn square.

 (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b252/timduvall/DSC01022.jpg)

Then I need to use this as a pattern to draw the other bloodwood swoosh. since I am using an accent stripe, I always draw the line with the accent stripe thickness accounted for. THis helps alleviate internal riser stresses on the glue joints. Here, I just taped the accent stripe to the inside swoosh and trace the profile

 (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b252/timduvall/DSC01023.jpg)

the next step is the most tedious for me. I have to perfectly match the pieces so there is no gaps when clamped. This can take me a couple hours to do. Sand close to the line, clamp, check for gaps. Mark hte high points, unclamp. Sand  the high points, repeat, repeat, repeat...you get the picture

 (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b252/timduvall/DSC01026.jpg)

once that is done, mix the glue as before, clamp and let cure

 (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b252/timduvall/DSC01029.jpg)

once its cured, i flatten the one side again, draw the riser pattern, cut and square the angles.

 (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b252/timduvall/DSC01032.jpg)

tomorrow we will start the process of getting the limbs mounted and drilling holes

Thanks for following
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: TradBowyer on August 17, 2009, 11:09:00 PM
ok lets start getting this thing to look like a bow...

laying out the limb pattern

 (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b252/timduvall/100_1230.jpg)

the limbs are then cut to the line on the bandsaw and then fine tuned on the edge sander. Since the jig I use is for a riser block that is already square and flat on the one side (unlike the Bingham one that makes you draw a center line), I can "pre mount" my limbs flush with the side of hte riser to check for limb alignment. If the limbs tips are out of line at this point, i know i have issues and its easier to correct now than later.

 (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b252/timduvall/100_1231.jpg)

everything looks good.

Once the profiles are cut, its time to drill the holes for the pin and the insert. The next few pics show my jig. I have a insert I use for the 5/16" hole which I use to drill the hole in the limbs. Remove this insert to drill the hole in the riser for the threaded insert...anyway..not to get ahead of myself...

 (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b252/timduvall/100_1232.jpg)

 (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b252/timduvall/100_1233.jpg)

 (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b252/timduvall/100_1234.jpg)

now that the holes are drilled, time to tap the riser hole for the insert.

 (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b252/timduvall/100_1235.jpg)

I install the insert using a couple dabs of loctite. I also like to counterset the insert so I know there is no interference between the limb and the insert.

 (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b252/timduvall/100_1236.jpg)

 (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b252/timduvall/100_1237.jpg)
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: TradBowyer on August 17, 2009, 11:10:00 PM
at this point, we are ready to mount the limbs, check for twist, tiller and initial weight.

 (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b252/timduvall/100_1238.jpg)

everything is good. Weight is 64@28 which is right where I want to be to hit a final goal of 57@28. Tiller is just at 1/4" and the limbs are tracking straight. This is the most nerving step for me. Nothing like getting a string on for the first time...just never know what you are going to find. At this point with the limbs tracking straight and good for weight, its all down hill from here. Next step is to get the riser roughed out and  the tip overlays on. Should be able to throw some arrows out of it Wednesday.

Here is a pic of the osage on the belly. Don't know how the pic will turn out but there is some nice flat grain in this stuff.

 (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b252/timduvall/100_1239.jpg)

thanks for following along
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: Moen on August 18, 2009, 05:41:00 AM
That was a beautiful profile!! I like, i like.. Selfmade limbform?
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: DWT on August 18, 2009, 08:48:00 AM
Looking very cool Tim. I love the lines, very graceful. That is some nice looking osage.This build along is very cool even though its alot of extra work for you I hope it will get you some orders.
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: TradBowyer on August 18, 2009, 09:36:00 PM
not much to see tonight just a lot of grinding, filing and sanding but did get the riser roughed out. It was requested to leave a little on the riser so its a little larger than I normally make my longbow risers but I like it. I like to feel I'm holding something other than a soda straw  :)

 (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b252/timduvall/100_1241.jpg)

 (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b252/timduvall/100_1242.jpg)

tomorrow we will shoot to get the tip overlays on and maybe throw some arrows out of it.
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: kennym on August 19, 2009, 10:02:00 PM
Very good job goin there Tim! I like your drillin jig better than Binghams! Waaay better alignment I'll bet!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: TradBowyer on August 19, 2009, 10:40:00 PM
Kenny,
Yeah, its a good jig. The problem I have with Binghams is that all in all, you are drawing 4 center lines. If you are just 1/32" off on each line, thats a total of 1/8" off and thats enough to throw the limb tips out and you end up with limbs out of alignment. With this jig, you take that all out of the equation.
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: kennym on August 19, 2009, 11:06:00 PM
Yeah ,don't ask how I know all that!LOL

1/8" at the riser can be a BUNCH 20 some inches out!!
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: TradBowyer on August 31, 2009, 10:41:00 PM
ok, much has happened since the last post...pics are dragging a little. Time to put on the skins..here's how I do it. Others are much better at this than I but i get decent results doing it this way. Feel free to pipe in with suggestions if you have a better way... Here are the skins

 (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b252/timduvall/skins1.jpg)

I soak my skins in warm water to soften. oh yeah, make sure you have an understaning wife if you do this in the sink like I do

 (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b252/timduvall/skinssoak.jpg)

while the skins are soaking, i get the limbs ready. I use Titebond II and i have had instances in the past where the glue refused to stick to the glass so I have to lay a layer of glue down, let dry and then glue the skins on. I'm not crazy about the 2 layers of glue adding weight to the limbs but I don't know how else to do it.


 (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b252/timduvall/glue1.jpg)

 (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b252/timduvall/glue2.jpg)

it usually takes about 45 min for this coat to dry. Once dry I "pre cut" the skins in length. i put the end of the skin against the tip overlays and trim the bottom. I leave a little extra. once cut, i add another layer of fresh glue and apply the skin. I use a clamp at the end to anchor the skin so I don't have to worry about it moving on me as i'm working the air bubbles out.

 (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b252/timduvall/skinslayup.jpg)
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: TradBowyer on August 31, 2009, 10:52:00 PM
I keep smoothing the skin making sure the pattern stays centered until it starts to stick a little. It can take anywhere from 5-10 min depending on how wet the skin was when applied. Once I'm confident all the airbubbles are out, i do the other skin the same way. I've read where some say to trim the skins close at this point. I have never had good results doing this. Inevitably, they always dry and curl up on me. I leave mine full width and as they dry, i wrap them under the limb. They will dry this way and I have never had the lifting/curling issue doing it this way. Once dry, i sand the edges of the limb and it all comes off anyway..but i'm getting ahead of myself...at this point i put the skins up to dry working my finger down the skin about every 1/2 hour or so until i'm sure the glue is really setting up. I leave the skins for 2 days sometimes 3 if the glue isn't fully dry.

lets work on the riser. 60 grit, 100 grit, 150 grit, 220 grit and we are ready to seal. I use CA superglue. Never had an issue with it. It's cheap, fast and works on all woods even oily exotics.

 (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b252/timduvall/sealing1.jpg)

using latex gloves, dribble some glue and start spreading. On nonpourous woods like these, a little really goes a long way.

 (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b252/timduvall/sealing2.jpg)

it sets rather quick so I couldn't take a lot of pics but here is the end result of the first coat

 (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b252/timduvall/sealing3.jpg)

Once dry, i sand with 150, 220 and then reapply till the pores are filled.

More to follow
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: BMN on September 01, 2009, 11:10:00 PM
Beautiful work!
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: kennym on September 04, 2009, 10:14:00 PM
:clapper:    :clapper:
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: traditionalhunter on September 21, 2009, 09:08:00 PM
This bow still isnt finished?????
Glad I didnt buy it.
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: TradBowyer on September 21, 2009, 09:29:00 PM
Traditionalhunter,
No offense but I've been in constant contact with the winner of this bow on the status throughout the last few months. It takes time to build these things especially if you don't have stock of the materials requested. There was an option to take a bow that I had in stock but that wasn't the wishes of the winner. He wanted one built to his specs. Anyway, here are the finished pics. The other limb needs two more coats of finish but it will ship this week.

 (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b252/timduvall/stjudesfinished.jpg)
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: Dano on September 21, 2009, 09:39:00 PM
Nice job Tim. I could never build bows to sell I couldn't put up impatient customers.
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: str8sh2ter on September 21, 2009, 11:15:00 PM
Great job, Tim.Very informative build-along.thanks
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: Delta708 on September 22, 2009, 01:25:00 AM
That is a very nice bow. SWEEEEEETTTTTT!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: Mallardstacker on September 22, 2009, 01:43:00 AM
Love the combination!  Excellent work Tradbowyer!   :clapper:  

And Dano, I'm with you....
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: DWT on September 22, 2009, 07:13:00 AM
I really like how the bow turned out Tim, and yes you have been in constant contact with me throughout this build and I would say that the time frame is between you and me and knowone else I requested a custom bow, and these take time, still waiting on one in wisconsin that wont be done till december. Im excited to see this in person and shoot some arrows out of it. Tim, if you could put somewhere on the bow St judes 2009 that would be cool, I may want to do something special with this bow, maybee a tour or something with the members of tradgang, no promises guys but I am considering it.
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: 4runr on September 22, 2009, 08:45:00 AM
Tim, you've done a great job with the build-along. Don't worry what some might say, you've given way above and beyond for the kids.

Wonder what he did for St. Judes?
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: soopernate on September 22, 2009, 09:59:00 AM
Agreed...that bow is standout beautiful.  I would never be able to handle the commercial bow building world with the "i want it now" mentality.
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: dutchwarbow on September 22, 2009, 06:00:00 PM
tradbowyer, I think every minute you spent on this bow was worth it. She's a beauty, and sometimes it takes a little more time to finish these special bows. If people don't wan't to wait for such a bow, they don't deserve it.

you did a great job.

Nick
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: traditionalhunter on September 22, 2009, 06:32:00 PM
HMMM all it takes is one comment and miraculously the bow is done, amazing!!!!
And yes I know how long a bow takes to build.
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: Dano on September 22, 2009, 06:59:00 PM
When I had to work for a living, our favorite saying on any project was "WOE", "waiting on electricians". Robert I guess your just getting even.
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: traditionalhunter on September 22, 2009, 08:00:00 PM
What does that have to do with building a bow?
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: Dano on September 22, 2009, 08:09:00 PM
Exactly, and what do your comments have to do with A charity bow.
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: traditionalhunter on September 22, 2009, 08:32:00 PM
Why does every one think it should take longer to build a charity bow, its still a bow like any other bow being built, and your still dealing with a customer like any other bow.
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: Dano on September 22, 2009, 09:27:00 PM
Doing a search in the St. Judes auction forum doesn't bring your name up any where, does that mean that you had nothing to do with the auction for kids and there for have nothing to say about how long it takes to biuld a charity bow?
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: 4runr on September 22, 2009, 09:51:00 PM
Robert it seems you are the only individual who has made any negative comments in this thread. You just seem to want to pick an argument. The individual this bow is being built for has no problem with the time frame. What the heck is your beef in this?
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: 4runr on September 22, 2009, 10:02:00 PM
In fact, Sir, your only contribution to this entire site has been to sell 3 bows, inquire about some arrows and pick an argument with someone who has donated their hard earned time and materials to a cause that is all about helping children.
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: dutchwarbow on September 23, 2009, 06:56:00 AM
'I know how long it takes to make a bow'

so do I. I've made bows within 2 hours, but I've also spent like 25hours on a single bow, the bow took almost 3weeks to fully finish (tempersessions, steambending, heatbending etc.)
and that was by far not such a beauty...


Ofcourse, a charity bow can't be a priority for an proffessional bowyer!! What a dumb assumption would that be.  

but here he donates a 800$ worth bow to those kids. I don't think you're in the right place to complain how long he took for it. Not at all.

but.. what was your reason for posting this? please, tell me. I believe it surely isn't your concern, even if it wasn't charity, as it wasn't gonna be your bow.

Nick
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: razorback on September 23, 2009, 08:30:00 AM
Hey guys, lets forget the negativity and get back to this wonderful bow. More pictures and final specs would be great. I know I've picked up a tip just from the photo's.
  :campfire:    RESPECT.   :campfire:
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: Talondale on September 23, 2009, 03:33:00 PM
I'd like to see the steps he mentioned about sanding the snakeskin edge.  Did you trim it close and then sand the remainder? or just sand off the skin while holding it down?  Beautiful bow.
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: TradBowyer on September 23, 2009, 11:18:00 PM
Here are the finished pics of hte bow. Specs are 64" 58@28

 (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b252/timduvall/stjudesstrung.jpg)

 (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b252/timduvall/stjudesback.jpg)

 (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b252/timduvall/stjudesbelly.jpg)

Talondale,
I don't trim the skins when I apply them, I leave them full width. After they are dry, I use a sanding block with 150 grit paper and only going one direction (not sanding back and forth), I run it along the edge of the limb and it only takes a couple strokes to get through the skin. The edges are a little frazzled but when I seal the skins with superglue, it lays everything back down and gives the skins the finished look.
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: 4runr on September 23, 2009, 11:31:00 PM
A Beautiful bow, Sir!

Very well done!
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: dakota tim on September 24, 2009, 12:47:00 AM
Nicely done!  Great build-a-long

  :campfire:
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: SteveD on September 24, 2009, 05:01:00 AM
Beautiful Job. Great Work
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: DWT on September 24, 2009, 06:51:00 AM
Tim, I love the profile of that thing, and the bloodwood and osage go great with the snakes eh. I think you have done everyone a real favor by doing the build along and I for one would like to thank you for 1. Donating the bow to St Judes
                 2. alowing me some input on the bow.             3. Doing the build along so we could all see the process.
                 4. Remaining a class act through the whole process, you are to be applauded.  
             Thank you, Don Taylor
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: traditionalhunter on September 24, 2009, 07:21:00 PM
Nice looking bow. I look forward to shooting it.
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: Mallardstacker on September 25, 2009, 01:43:00 AM
It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.-- Mark Twain
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: Dano on September 25, 2009, 12:55:00 PM
Great looking bow Tim, so what did this gem bring in for the kids?
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: traditionalhunter on October 02, 2009, 12:39:00 PM
It is better state your opinion and stand by it like a man, than to cower and kiss a$$ like so many do.-- Rob Jabrocki
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: soopernate on October 02, 2009, 02:34:00 PM
Unless your opinion makes you look like a horses arse.....

in that case its better to admit you are wrong and apologize.  Takes a big man to admit he's wrong (my grampa said that)
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: Terry Green on October 03, 2009, 11:44:00 AM
Geez....Robert Jabrocki aka traditionalhunter is banned.

I would clean the thread up....but I decided to leave it so everyone can see the kind of jerks we have to deal with to keep the site on track.

Robert, you are a punk.  Yeah, broke my own rules...sorry.
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: Dano on October 03, 2009, 01:14:00 PM
Thanks Terry, I was kinda worried that the topic got removed and we lost a decent buildalong. Trad Gang survives yet another yayhoo.
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: Terry Green on October 03, 2009, 08:45:00 PM
No worries Dano....sorry I posted that, but the doner of the bow not only donated....but he's taken the time to do a build along here as well....and its a St Judes donation at that.  Comments like that over someones efforts just piss me off.

I've waited over 4 months for a bow plenty of times....who cares, the kids got the money and that was BOTH the donor and the winners intentions....helping kids.  There is no place for such behavior.
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: 4runr on October 03, 2009, 10:07:00 PM
Well done Terry!!
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: Osagetree on October 04, 2009, 08:07:00 AM
Very well done!
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: Shaun on October 06, 2009, 10:01:00 AM
Nice bow and build along. Thanks for taking the time to show the process and for ignoring the negative stuff from the now removed offender. Class act all around.
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: soopernate on October 06, 2009, 10:13:00 AM
Applause for the buildalong no doubt.  Glad to see that guy has been removed as well....
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: bjansen on October 06, 2009, 01:07:00 PM
Excellent looking bow and great build!  I really like the way you shaped the tips.
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: tradtusker on October 11, 2009, 12:00:00 AM
A great looking bow thanks for taking the time to post the Build-a-long    :wavey:   got several tips from that, thank you
Title: Re: St Jude's Longbow Build-a-long
Post by: scrub-buster on October 11, 2009, 07:30:00 PM
Very nice bow and build-a-long.

Also, very nice moderating.