Only been shooting the longbow for two years, havent hunted yet. What do you consider accurate? Being a compound shooter for many years, I'm being a little tough on myself I think. At twenty yards, what should my "before I hunt" standard be? paper plate? softball? golf ball? Thanks for your thoughts.
i'd say an 8" circle should be acceptable at 20 yds..of course a 3" would be better...but vitals are the key and i think an 8" circle should get us there. im thinking deer size animals
Leef being a compound hunter for many years I assume you already know the kill area of your quarry just hunt from there in other words get as close as you feel necessary to hit that kill zone. Maybe it will be alot less than 20yds.
I agree with Rico...the closer the better... but if you do take a 20 yd shot i'd say you should feel very confident that you can put your arrow in a 8" circle.
Id say a 3 arrow group consistantly baseball size would be very good . I used to be a hard core compound shooter like your self so I know what you are going through and still have problems with confidence now. One thing that will help your confidence is to go to a traditional shoot or two and get a feel of where your at with your accuracy compared to others that have been shooting for a long time . Also , I try to make all my hunting shots under 20 and more like 10 or 15 so I do ALOT of pratice at 10-20 yards and have done very well taking a deer or two and some small game every year so far. Make sure to pratice out of some kind of elavated stand regularly if you plan on stand hunting and keep your shots up close and personal. I love bowhunting because it is a up close and personal type of hunting so if I can convince the deer to climb up the tree Im in happy as a hog .
Mike
For me would be about the size of a softball. I limit myself to the distance that I can hit with my first arrow, cold. Right now I would not take a shot over twenty yards, though I can group okay a little further, my first shot outside that distance hasn't quite got there yet. I am working on that now, to try to focus on getting better between 20-30 yards. My preferred distance on a deer would be close enough to tickle them with the arrow. :knothead:
David
I shoot at about a 4-5" targets at 20 yards. the farther I move out the smaller target I use.
I consider a coffee can lid (about 5-6") to be an excellent measure of accuracy for white-tailed deer. If you place a quarter sized black dot in the center of a small paper plate (not the standard 9" ones) and are able to keep three arrows of three on the plate, then your accuracy is only varying a maximum of 3 inches. You must consider that if the focal point is in the center, your miss cannot exceed the radius and still engage the plate (approximately 6 inches in diameter). I believe that this size roughly approximates the vitals of a deer. JMHO.
-Brett
For me I had to shoot some 3D games to know.Sort of gives you look at where you would have hit the animal.Real deer are a little faster though.
Softball at the comfort zone is accurate enough for me. My comfort zone is 15-20 yards and I don't go beyond that yet; but I am working on it.
An 8" circle I believe is a good indicator.
Most days, I can hold my own and shoot beside anyone and be confident in my accuracy. An 8" circle is no problem out to twenty yards.
However, that 8" circle becomes much smaller, after a two hour sit on Saturday morning, after working fifty hours, and staying up a bit too late to watch a movie with my wife on Friday night. Suddenly twenty yards is a long ways.
If you have refrained from hunting with your longbow for two years, it means you care. If you feel you are ready, then I for one am sure you are.
As hunting season approaches, putting yourself in a realistic hunting situation, and making one good shot without warm up is going to be the real test of your accuracy.
When the time comes, you throw the thought of the 8" circle out the window, concentrate on a single hair, and your hands, your eyes, and your longbow will do the rest.
I like to shoot at a tennis ball hanging from a string over the front of my target. No, I don't claim to hit it every time or even half the time. If I hit the tennis ball 25% of my shots at 20 yds I'm having a decent outing. If I hit it 3-4 times in a row I'm having a real fine day. Focusing on a tennis ball will usually keep shots in a 5"-8" circle. Deer and elk don't come with bright green spots on them so a few weeks before the season I do away with the tennis ball and try to focus on a spot on the burlap target I use. At that level of accuracy, I can honestly say I've never hit an animal poorly so that it got away. I've missed a couple of shots cleanly but I really shouldn't have taken those shots to begin with. Everything else I've drawn on has wound up in the freezer.
Right On Target Bonebuster. A cold shot is what counts for hunting. Accuracy with a trad bow is relative. Speaking for myself, longbows and compounds are not even on the same page. (I'm not putting down compounds here.) If we use the "become the arrow" method or some sort of visualization we can be very accurate when hunting.
... mike ...
I meant to add that I agree with Bonebuster's comment. I think we all concentrate our very best when drawing on an animal. In any target shooting situation my mind will eventually start to wonder and accuracy will suffer.
ake a walk inthe woods anstump shoot. You will be amazed how accurate you can become.
If you are confident you can put the arrow into the vitals at whatever distance you turn lose of the arrow from, you are ready
This is as good as I can shoot. There's a dozen arrows in that target shot from 25 yds in my basement. Two of em I pulled just because it's daggone hard to concentrate like that for a dozen consecutive shots. So I reckon there's 10 arrows in about 4 inches there.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o232/Ottodude/PICT1139.jpg)
I have been to quite few shoots and 90% or more of the guys and girls there cannot keep them in a softball size group at 20 yards on a consistent basis. Sorry but true. Go out and hunt and take the shots you feel confident in, I passed 3 good bucks this year at 30 yards or a tad less, but I have killed deer farther, for me it is about how I feel. If I feel I am gonna kill the deer 30-35 yards is not out of the question. Shawn
Nice shooting Otto. You have a BIG basement, in my back yard I have to stand in one corner of the yard with the target in the other to shoot 25 yards.
I think KC hit it. Take walk and stump shoot a little. It will give you the feel for an unexpected shot at an unknown distance. :thumbsup:
I consider "accurate" and "acceptable accuracy" when answering this question. "Accurate" would be softball sized groups at whatever distance you are shooting. "Acceptable accuracy" would be every shot in the kill zone of the animal you are hunting. This would vary depending on the size of the kill zone of the animal you are hunting.
I am not "accurate" beyond 10-12yds, but I have "acceptable accuracy" on whitetails out to 20yds or so. If I can get a handle on this TP, I hope to extend my range to 25-30yds.
I agree with Shawn's first sentence -- 90% of the folks can't shoot consistently into a softball size area at 20 yards. Close to the same percentage couldn't do it with a paper plate.
I'm not much for groups. You don't kill a deer with groups. You kill it with one arrow. 3-D shoots and stump shooting are good practice. Each shot is at a different distance.
Here's another way to determine your effective range. Put a paper plate on a bale. Shoot it from 5 yards. If you hit it, move back a little farther and perhaps at a different angle. Shoot again. If you hit it, move again, perhaps dropping to one knee. When you miss, you've just gone beyond your effective range, on a target range. It will probably be less than that with an animal in front of you. Just know your limits and be selective in your shot and you'll do fine.
RH.. maybe I read your post wrong, but please do not believe the kill zone on 3D targets. There is a ton of literature available out there to learn from, and learn we must.
It is not a shame to not know what and where the kill zone of a deer is, but it is a shame if you don't try to learn. This is not an intuitive thing.
ChuckC
chuck....maybe that would be a good post for you to start on the powwow...the true vitals of a whitetail...it would probably be of great help to alot of folks...
I agree with Shawn and some others. We as humans have a very low concentration level. Shoot one arrow at a time. Instead of thinking about what size to shoot at, shoot at a 1" dot from various distances and you will be surprised at how accurate you really are. At 20 yards, I don't hit the dot very often, but I'm usually all around it. Aim small, miss small. The hard part is putting that 1" dot on a deer. Shoot to your comfort level.
Mike
First arrow accuracy is the bottom line, but shooting groups will fine-down your form to help make that first one a lethal one.
Just about every cb shooter I know can shoot softball size groups at 20yds and everyone of them has probably missed or worse deer at 20yds.
There is alot more to deer hunting than groups.
Practice enough and you will know if you should or shouldn't be taking the shot.
Rico....yes there is. And, there is a lot more to accuracy than one shot groups 8^). Whatever works for you doesn't always work for someone else. However, to say that shooting groups will not help is a little far-fetched.
Most of my practice is just stump shooting, but if I start getting some lousy shots, I revisit my grouping ability; if nothing more, than to establish I didn't have a form let-down. We aren't talking about compound bow shooters, we are talking about any archer. The best bowhunters I know have attended NFAA shoots over the years and worked on their groups.
In any event, working on groups will not detract from one's hunting skills....unless one is a complete disaster in their form. Hunting skills and shooting skills are earned in different ways, and come together through practice in both.
I can shoot both groups and one-arrow hunting shots with no problems, and one compliments the other.
Shooting groups is fine if you're into checking your form from time to time.
I'm saying that there are a lot of archers that can shoot tight 20yd groups and still have problems a field.
My form is far from perfect to begin with and less than that shooting from a tree and or under/over brush. I don't think groups tell you anything more than your consistent at a certain yardage move from that yardage or take away the bright blotch of feathers or dot on the target and its all together different.
Stump shooting and or 3D are more beneficial than tight groups for hunting practice IMO. You will soon get to know the odds of making or not making a shot at whatever distance.
I know some folks aren't into trying to pound a dozen arrows into a pop can turned on end. It can become tedious and it takes a tremendous amount of concentration. You know how hard you have to concentrate on the 1 arrow group you shoot? Try that times 12 and you'll realize the concentration it takes. And yes, roving and shooting from different yardage makes it that much tougher. When the weather is a bit nicer, I like to try and shoot those tight groups anywhere from 10 feet to 30 yds, varying my shot anywhere between those extemes. More often than not the guy who can shoot a tight group of arrows is a better than average shot in the field. And, buck fever aside, the old wives tale about a guy who is lights out on targets but is a crappy shot in the field is just that. An old wives tale. There may be SOMEBODY out there like that, but I ain't never met him.
I think there are too many archers who ignore the bad shots they make on a target and only focus on the ones that hit the bull. It's certainly not encouraging to your confidence to look at a target with arrows sticking out all over the place like a voodoo doll. Those bad shots need to be evaluated and the cause understood. Failure to do that only serves to perpetuate the mediocre shooting that is on display at most shoots today.
You want a real test of your skill? Shoot at that same bull just as I stated above. Vary your yardage. Shoot over a branch, under a limb. But shoot em all at the same target. If you've got a softball size group of half a dozen arrows or more, great. If they're the size of a (gasp!) paper plate...you got plenty of room for improvement.
As George stated. Multiple shot groups and one shot groups compliment one another.
I like the one arrow at a time approach. I think if we shoot a bunch of arrows at a target in one sitting, all we do is compensate on each shot. One at a time will develope a hunting scenario shot better, IMO.
Stump shooting for me has been a huge help because I can practice all the different angles and unknown shot distances I want.
Another thing I like to do is go out on public land and shoot garbage. I take a trash bag and go clean up the land while getting in vital practice. Sometimes we shoot enough beer and pop cans for a trip to the ice cream store,LOL!
Shot distance will be totaly up to you. I can shoot targets at a 3-D range up to 40yds, but wouldn't want to try beyond 22yds while hunting deer. Stay in your comfort zone. I like to consistantly put an arrow into a 6 inch circle at 17yds to feel comfortable hunting game.
Wow a lot of great replies here. I sorta agree with a few. But you most likely won't like my reply.
If you have to ask us then you are not ready to hunt.
What was the largest group you felt comfortable with your cb I don't see where that would change for ya. The distance would change but not the group size that you felt was accurate enough for hunting.
In response to Deadsmple: Asking others their opinions to asses your own is not a bad thing. That's what makes this forum great (and all the GREAT tradgangers). Questioning your readiness is something that drives all good archers to practice (whatever your technique), and to pass on that shot you didn't feel confident in.
Success breeds confidence, and practice breeds success. It's not that I don't like your reply, as much as I think it oversimplifies a healthy concern for practice. Eventually the shot must be taken in the field and that success or failure will dictate the next shot. And in taking that next shot.........a hunter is born! My 2 cents worth.
-Brett
I learned practice techniques from a couple old timers about 20 years ago. Here they are: take a piece of cardboard and make a life sized deer sillouhette, pencil in the legs on the main body. Then you go and shoot. All your arrows better be in the kill zone or you don't take shots at that range. You don't lawyer up and try to argue whether a shot is a miss or a vital. It is or is not by your best viewpoint. If you are confident you can get them all in at 30 yards, by all means take your 30 yarders. We all miss a few, but we need to be as prepared as possible not to miss at our hunting range. Anyone ever have to go out at night to help a buddy find a wounded deer? Lose time at work to help find a wounded deer? Ever lose one yourself? We ask and seek answers in here just out of curiousity sometimes to see if others feel the same way. I for one love that about this TradGang! Some might not respond the way we like, but the responses are there! :campfire:
I need to feel that I can make the shot offered without dought.The distance changes from time to time depending on what ever.
I really don't care for the paper plate(9") idea even if that is the size of the kill zone.Try the sm size 6" plate that allows a little room for excitement or Mr Murphy to show up.If you insist on the 9" groups than I'd say thats great if it's over the course of 100 or so arrows it's best to be more than good enuff when a life is at stake than just good enuff.
In the end it's a personal choice that we must each make on our own.Shoot if YOU feel ready from how ever far ya wish....Good luck
To me it's not how many I can put in a group at diff. yardages, it's how many times I can put 1 arrow in the right spot at diff. yardages.
Alan
When I hunted with the compound I would concentrate on that perfect pocket shot. Now with the longbow it's important to me to give myself the greatest chance at hitting the vitals. Instead of concentrating on that perfect spot behind the shoulder I'm trying to maximize on that 4 to 6" accuracy by concentrating on the center of that ball that is located behind the shoulder. Since I may vary right,left, up or down as long as it is in that ball I'm hitting vitals. If I just concentrate on that spot immediatly behind the shoulder I have cut my chance of hitting the vitals in half if my shot strays to the shoulder side. I'm now more conscious that looking for that perfect spot directly behind the shoulder is limiting so I want to make more of an effort to concentrate on the center of the ball located behind the shoulder.
as for the argument that groups dont help hunting, no mater the format as long as you are shooting arows you are doing right by the animal you are hunting. I started up again a few years ago one winter, the only shooting was a indoor range, started just slamming out group after group at a nfaa target 20 yrds, then the guy got a 3d range up to 30 yards we would play horse. when i was consistantly shooting my 20 yard groups i could dominate the 3d course calling eyeball and ear shots to 25 yards. my point, any way you can loose some arows is a good way.
Accurate is what my son is when ever I get a brand new arrow dead on target. He does everything in his power to break my arrows.
I really appreciate all the replies! My reason for asking the question....When I practice, I seem to shoot better when I shoot at different targets from varied distances. Just standing and shooting from 20 yards, my groups are not good...shooting the varied distances and different targets I seem to keep it within 5" or so. I think my grouping problem comes from a lack of concentration, on the spot, and on form. What put you over the top with your shooting? Is there one thing you can point to that made you improve the most? Once again...thanks, all the information from experienced folks is cherished!
This is what I do. I hang my white feed bag full of shrink wrap. I draw a line to represent the back o fthe front leg. I draw a 6" dotted circle with a small black dot in the middle of that circle right where the vitals would be.
Then I start at 5 yards and shoot 3 arrows. If I miss with one arrow I repeat until I can get all three in there. I take 3 steps back and repeat until I can get all three in at 20 or more yards. I also stump shoot alot at ANY distance.
Jer Bear
This has been a very informative thread.. The sooting cold really hit home with me.. When weather permits i shoot on on little in the am before work and what on on difference when it is five degrees and you draw that first arrow.. 3d targets are great tool IMO vs large bag targets there i considerably more missable space around on on 3D deer..,
For the instinctive shooter: Shoot one arrow from different distances. The instinctive shooter learns very little from shooting groups.
If you want to work on form, get up close to the target and close your eyes and shoot. You can't concentrate on form and shoot accurately at the same time without a aiming system and even then it is debatable. IMO DAVE
Big'n
Respectfully, I disagree. As I stated earlier, shoot a group of arrows at the same bull from varying distances. You'll learn a tremendous amount from that group. You'll learn if you consistantly hit left, right, high or low. You'll learn if you're loosing back tension or collapsing on release. There's a ton of stuff you'll learn. And you can work on form and shoot accurately. See the picture I posted. Anytime I practice, I'm working on something.
I'm with the one arrow accuracy crowd. For the last week prior to heading to Manitoba to bear hunt, I take one shot in the morning and one shot in the evening. I do this at my self imposed max distance. You only get one chance, same as a hunting situation. Throw in a thought such as, " This is a $1500 shot", and you'll tend to concentrate.
QuoteOriginally posted by Big'n:
You can't concentrate on form and shoot accurately at the same time without a aiming system and even then it is debatable. IMO DAVE
I would debate that one...but, that's another thread.
To me, the original poster's question is, from him as an ex compound shooter, "what should a realistic expectation of accuracy be." To me, I think trad bowhunters too often accept mediocre accuracy. While we all can't be Howard Hill or Larry Yien, or Rod Jenkins, with proper practice and time, a properly fitting bow/grip, a well tuned arrow, I think ANYONE can consistently hit a coke can at 20 yards. Not to degrade or put anyone down, but me personally, I will not accept "pie plate" accuracy unless we are talking about 40 yards +.
To me, "accurate" with a stickbow is being able to consistently (7/10 or better) hit a golf ball out to 10-15 yards, a tennis ball to 20-25, a softball or so at 30...and when you miss, you're usually scarin it so bad it ain't funny. If you refuse to accept less accuracy, you will be amazed at what you can accomplish with a stickbow. And no, I don't think those are "Michael Jordan or Tiger Woods" type goals...because I know quite a few who are at that level.
My Grandfather used to say something like this, and I am paraphrasing here "In most anything I can think of in this life, you will perform at the level that you eventually decide is acceptable. Where that level is, is sometimes up to you...but don't think that everyone else's level has to be yours, above or below, it all comes down to your choice and how hard or easy, you decide to work at it."
And for the guys esposing it must be a cold shot, while I agree in part, how much better would you be if you stumped a few on your way to the afternoon stand or shot a few in the headlights where you park your truck before going in for a morning hunt? I have confidence in my shooting, but when possible, there is nothing better than shooting a few great shots right before you "step on stage".
I hope to be able to hit the broadside of a barn from the inside someday. Maybe if I keep practicing. :scared:
I will not accept "pie plate" accuracy unless we are talking about 40 yards +.
Why would pie plate be acceptable at 40+ but not 20?
:campfire: Dave, you and I should go shooting together, sounds like we're on about the same level of skill. I don't think I could make 70% hits on a golf ball at 15 yards or a pie plate plate at 40+ yards if my life depended on it. :pray:
Aim small, hit small. I don't think shooting groups is good simply because you tend to focus on the arrows rather than the spot on the target.
Shot 100 arrows today, about 75% of them were within 6" of my target (water bottle cap) at varied distances from 10-25 yards. My main concern today was that I had some horrible shots (10-15" misses) and I don't know what caused them. All together I am getting better and when I really concentrate I'm putting them in the right spot, its kind of like golf...it's hard to concentrate on every one.
Rico
It's the same methodology as is used in shooting a rifle. A rifle capable of shooting a 1 inch group at 100 yds will shoot a larger group at a longer distance, i.e. 2" at 200 yds, 4" at 400 yds etc.... ignoring the effects of the wind of course. So we accept the premise that our groups will get larger as we move away from the target.
QuoteOriginally posted by JC:
Quote
My Grandfather used to say something like this, and I am paraphrasing here "In most anything I can think of in this life, you will perform at the level that you eventually decide is acceptable. Where that level is, is sometimes up to you...but don't think that everyone else's level has to be yours, above or below, it all comes down to your choice and how hard or easy, you decide to work at it."
[/b]
JC, your Grandfather sound like my kind of guy!
QuoteOriginally posted by SHOOTO8S:
JC, your Grandfather sound like my kind of guy!
Much agreed!
I think I have some sort of OCD, obbssesive cumpulsive dmentia, I start out every spring shooting not so bad in my back yard. As the summer wares on, I find that I shoot more and more faster and faster until I am nuts, always trying to fix that one little thing. Until a definite flinch starts to come on. I think that over doing it on a single target can make your concentration wonder if one is not very careful. I can learn more in 50 arrows roving and small game hunting than I can with 5000 shots at a flat target or a rubber deer in my back yard. there is just something about shooting live fur that i need to be able to do before deer season to have the mental control I need.
I understand that Otto if pie plate is good enough accuracy for hunting at 40 yds + shouldn't pie plate be good enough at 20 or under if all you're shots are going to be 20 or under?
Rico
I won't answer for JC but I didn't see him use the word "hunting" in his definition of acceptable 40 yard accuracy. He may have meant that but I won't attempt to read anything into his response.
I'd be tickled to death to put a dozen arrows into a pie plate at 40 yards. If that was all the better I could do at 20, then I would work to improve myself quite a bit before I went hunting.
You maybe right Otto the topic was hunting accuracy could be I incorrectly assumed. There are archers that will accept pie plate at 40 and beyond but not 20 for hunting which makes no sence to me.
Rico, because I wouldn't shoot at a deer at 40...but I'd shoot at an elk at 40 because a "pie plate" is well within it's vital size. In my experience, limited though it may be compared to some, if you are shooting say 4" groups of 4-6 arrows at 20 yards, you more than likely will be shooting maybe 6-8" single arrow groups at that same distance under the pressure of live big game...at least for ME that holds true.
For me, there is no comparison in the pressure between shooting foam, even in a big tournament, and shooting live, breathing, moving, "about to bust you and blow out of there" big game. In my humble opinion, the ONLY way to get better at shooting big game is to spend a lot of time in bow range of big game and shooting big game. Until I feel as confident on big game as I do on anything inanimate (and small game), I personally will stick to an ever increasing, very high standard of accuracy. And then, even if/when I do become that confident, I'll still probably stick to that same level of accuracy because I know it is not a dream...it can be a reality. It just takes the appropriate mindset, appropriate practice, and appropriate equipment. Your mileage may vary...but it works for me.
Otto, at the level I require of myself I find it very difficult to concentrate for 12 arrows. Typically, if I shoot groups at long distances it's 3-6 arrows. If I'm not mentally spent after 6 shots in a row, I'm not concentrating hard enough. Again, ymmv.
Rod, coming from you, that certainly means a lot. You have been instrumental in helping me stretch outside of comfort zone in attaining accuracy I previously thought unreachable. Many thanks for your example and advice.
Jason, from what Charlie says about you, I'm sure you and my Grandfather would have got along famously. Hope to share a camp with you someday.
Well my take on hunting accuracy is not how far you can shoot well but how you will handle not shooting farther than you can when that time comes. :)If you can only shoot 10 yds and you can let a deer walk at 15yds you are shooting well enough to go hunting. jmo
I personaly never quit tring to shoot better than I can.I always want to shoot better tommorrow than I am right now.Conditions play such a big part in when or what shot I take when hunting I can never say what my distance will be that day or even moment in time.I can usually average 240 or better on a 300 round with about any bow I pick up.So I would say I am in the 6 or 8" group at 20yds consistantly.Sure I shoot some 25pt ends which would mean sub 2" groups with 5 arrows at times but that would not be a real measure of my shooting. :bigsmyl:
I understand what you are saying JC Good Post.
I was trying more to say what James Wrenn just wrote so well. Thanks.
JC
I hear you on the concentration level. Shooting a dozen arrows at the same spot like that is VERY mentally taxing. In fact, I find I can only do it once per session. The ole noggin just gets fried if I try to do it arrow after arrow. On the pic of the group I posted, I'm not sure I did anything physically different on those 2 shots. They were more like, I felt focused and then 1 second before release my brain went off to LaLa land or something and next thing I know, I have a blown shot.
The other issue I have is being able to focus on a teeny tiny spot at 40 yds. I've worn glasses for distance since I was 11. Now as I approach 50, even with an updated prescription, it's flat out difficult to SEE and focus on a tiny spot at those longer distances.
JC - I like the way you think. Your approach and thoughts on shooting are very similsr to mine. Nothing comes close to the pressure of actually shooting at game. Competitive 3D is probably next and, TO ME(ONLY), stumping roving the least - since it is hard to quantify results and about zero pressure.
Steve
SteveB
Agreed. Stumping and roving is fun, but as you say, it's hard to quantify to determine how well you shot. The brain only remembers the leaf or stray bottle cap that got center punched. It tends to forget the shot that "looked" "close enough" but in reality would have been a gut shot on a live animal.
Hi Leef
Wow a lot of good stuff on this tread.The main thing is to shoot.An try to shoot better today than you did yesterday.Its all good shoot groups, an shoot one arrow, go stump shooting.But i would add for hunting shoot your broad heads alot.When i put down my compound an went trad it became how close i could get not how far i could shoot.
QuoteOriginally posted by JC:
Hope to share a camp with you someday.
After enjoying your hunting stories here for a long time now, It would be my pleasure.
I find that I get sloppy stump shooting and even when shooting my 3-D targets. It is too easy for me to tell my self " well it's in the lungs" on a shot that is 4 or 5 inches from where I was looking. As boring as it is, I think I improve the most when I'm shooting at a small dot. I was told years ago your maximum distance is the distance you would shoot at your 3-D deer leaned against your truck.
Well..., DEAD IS ACCURATE. :saywhat: :knothead:
Nothing like hunting to bring out the best or worst in your shooting though. I tend to agree with JC that hunting is the ultimate pressure on your accuracy. I'm sure we all agree that a wounded animal is not what anyone wants to see EVER. I know when I hunt I get as close as I can and usually that is under 15 yards. In the Yukon it'sw almost impossible to hunt from a stand cause the animals don't frequent the same trails much. All of my hunting is spot and stalk or calling. My last bear was stalked on the ground and I took him at 7 paces while he was eating. It also took me close to 2 hours to get that close. I had him many times at 15-20 yards but no angle.
When it came time to shoot believe me I was relieved to see the arrow fly. Alot of heart pounding prior to this as a few times he winded me and looked like he was going to leave dodge.
Then he turned quartering away and then it's burn a hole time on the hair behind the shoulder and pull and release. Alot of that doesn't happen shooting targets etc. I use them mostly for form and to check my accuracy.
Jer Bear
Ooooooo Ron! I like THAT answer too... :bigsmyl:
I think some of ya'll misunderstood what I was trying to say. According to science the human mind cannot "concentrate" on more than one thing at a time. If you shoot purely instinctively (I know this could start another discussion), meaning shooting without reference other than the spot you intend to hit, it is impossible to concentrate on that spot and your form at the same time and shoot accurately. Something has to give. Something has to suffer. This is not my opinion it is scientific fact. It has to do with your attentional focus according to Dr. Kidwell.
I know personally that I can't shoot worth a darn if I'm up there thinking about my form. If I want to work on form, I shoot up close to the target with my eyes closed. I think alot of people slow their progress in shooting a bow accurately by trying to do too many things at once.
I understand the benefits to shooting groups as prescribed by some of the fellas above. Personally it confuses my instinctive shot. When I shoot groups from particular distance and then move, it takes my eye a few shots to adjust to the new distance. If I shoot one arrow then move my eye automatically adjusts to the new distance. I can tell what I'm doing wrong( in my form)without shooting groups. I don't believe it is needed for instinctive shooting.
I may have gotten off the given subject a bit, but thought I ought to clarify what I meant by my earlier statement. God Bless, DAVE
QuoteOriginally posted by Big'n:
According to science the human mind cannot "concentrate" on more than one thing at a time.
You're right, it is a topic for another thread...but in short response, I don't think that's proven anywhere. If so, combat fighter pilots, who process input from approximately 12 different sources and perform up to 15 simultaneous complex muscle movements would not be capable of doing what they do every day. If those people are simply multitasking at the speeds of a microprocessor...well that's close enough to simultaneous for me.
I say all this because I know I can both aim and work on form. My aiming process is as much a part of my form as my release...they are both integral parts of my shot. Again, you mileage may vary.
Sorry for the thread high-jack...
JC,
I hope you don't mind, I stole your grandfather's quote for my signature. It applies to nearly every worthwhile aspect of life that I can think of as well.
Bob
Bob, humbly honored, as I am sure he is too.
JC my father told me that same thing when I was 14 yrs old. He was a fighter pilot. This thread seems to have very insightful and honest opinions about shooting and what some considers accurate. I personally can zip in 3 good shots in a row and that's it, have to take a break for a while before I shoot again otherwise it is not accurate. Correct me if you think I am wrong guys, but if you shot enough, you should know what happened with your form to cause your arrows to miss where they do. It isn't that hard to figure it out! If you paid attention to your shooting, you will recognize what makes good hits or what causes bad hits. Most people prefer 3-D shooting because there is no defined target zones. It's either 10 or 8. Paper targets very much like the online shooting challenge present you with multiple zones. There is also a bullseye to put pressure on you. This is why we get so many of us divided into "archers", "hunters", and "hunting archers". You know, those that shoot holes in bullseyes and miss game, those that shoot the crap out of game but can't hit a bale, and those that flat out shoot whatever they want! It's just like JC's grandfather said...
Here's what I consider "accurate":
A bowhunter who can, with absolute confidence put his/her first and only arrow into the "kill zone" of a 3-D target at the following distances (in this or a similarly staggered order): 10, 18, 14, 20 & 16.
For bowhunting purposes, I've never much understood the "five out of five" in a pie plate at 20 yards approach to practicing. Unless someone happens to be expecting five deer to walk by at 20 yards. :confused: