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Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: bjansen on April 25, 2009, 12:16:00 PM

Title: New form...Bow FInished Page 3
Post by: bjansen on April 25, 2009, 12:16:00 PM
I just finished up this form last night and wanted to post it to see what you all thought.  Finished bow would be 58" long 1.5" wide.

I think I can guess on the thickness/weight...and if I'm off no big deal..

But what kind of taper per limb do you think I should use.  I generally use a total taper of .04 per inch in longbows, and .02 per inch in recurves....this one is heavily recurved...so maybe .03?

Thanks

     (http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/Arrow%20Rack/DSCN0245.jpg)

     (http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/Arrow%20Rack/DSCN0244.jpg)

     (http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/Arrow%20Rack/DSCN0250.jpg)

     (http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/Arrow%20Rack/DSCN0251.jpg)
Title: Re: New form...Bow FInished Page 3
Post by: Apex Predator on April 25, 2009, 12:29:00 PM
Good looking form Bro!  I'm thinking .03/inch is probably close.  I tend to need more taper than most, so my opinion may not mean much.
Title: Re: New form...Bow FInished Page 3
Post by: kennym on April 25, 2009, 12:46:00 PM
.003"/inch   looks good to me,but with the reflex you have,you might have to go .004"/inch to unroll the ends of the limbs enough to suit you.
Title: Re: New form...Bow FInished Page 3
Post by: bjansen on April 25, 2009, 12:59:00 PM
Thanks guys..Maybe on the first one i will use .004 per inch total taper per limb...see how it works..I will report back results with some pics...this bow should be about a month away.
Title: Re: New form...Bow FInished Page 3
Post by: Apex Predator on April 25, 2009, 01:18:00 PM
I would err on the side of less taper Brad.  I did that on my current hybrid build.  After initially profiling the limbs, most of the bend was right out of the fades.  I wanted more of the limb bending, so started narrowing the limbs profle.  I finally had it working like I wanted, and a side benefit is narrower outer half limbs.  I'm sure it shoots sweeter than one profiled like I originally planned.  If I had started with more taper, the outer limbs would have been much wider and heavier.  

This bow building is so cool!  Most of my best design dicoveries have been found while fixing something I initially considered a big "oops".
Title: Re: New form...Bow FInished Page 3
Post by: kennym on April 25, 2009, 02:40:00 PM
Marty is right,nothin worse to me than wide limbs on the outer end of my bows. Seems the best shooters are narrower tipped.

That is why I said .003,but you may have to go to .004, the first one off a new form is a guessing game for me!!
Title: Re: New form...Bow FInished Page 3
Post by: Mike Most on May 04, 2009, 10:20:00 PM
How long is your riser going to be before the limbs start their bending? I like the shape of that form also.

Good Luck

Mike
Title: Re: New form...Bow FInished Page 3
Post by: bjansen on May 05, 2009, 09:02:00 PM
I was going to use a 16 inch riser, which if you look at the last picture the fade would end about 1/4 inch past the second screw on the bottom half of the form.  You can very faintly see the lines I drew on the bottom half to show where it would end.
Title: Re: New form...Bow FInished Page 3
Post by: bjansen on May 05, 2009, 09:23:00 PM
Speaking of, I have some more progress to share.  I glued up my riser the other day.  I am using grey actionwood, redheart and a strip of white glass.  I plan to use grey actionwood and a strip of white glass in the lams as well.  and maybe overlays of alternating redheart/white  


I took some pics of an idea came up with to try to make a two piece riser.  It worked pretty good, but still took a bit of finish sanding to get it perfect.  I was originally thinking it would fit together as tight as a puzzle....

I was wondering how you guys do this?


 (http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/Turkey%20bow/CopyofDSCN0270.jpg)

 (http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/Turkey%20bow/CopyofDSCN0271.jpg)

 (http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/Turkey%20bow/DSCN0272.jpg)

 (http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/Turkey%20bow/CopyofDSCN0273.jpg)
Title: Re: New form...Bow FInished Page 3
Post by: bjansen on May 05, 2009, 09:25:00 PM
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/Turkey%20bow/DSCN0274.jpg)

 (http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/Turkey%20bow/DSCN0275.jpg)

 (http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/Turkey%20bow/DSCN0276.jpg)
Title: Re: New form...Bow FInished Page 3
Post by: bjansen on May 05, 2009, 09:26:00 PM
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/Turkey%20bow/DSCN0277.jpg)

 (http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/Turkey%20bow/DSCN0279.jpg)

 (http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/Turkey%20bow/DSCN0280.jpg)

 (http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/Turkey%20bow/DSCN0281.jpg)
Title: Re: New form...Bow FInished Page 3
Post by: bjansen on May 05, 2009, 09:34:00 PM
Although not pictured, I had to do some finish sanding on the redheart to get it to fit tightly in the actionwood.  The second to last picture is how it came out right off the router.  The final glue up shows some spaces near the ends but these will not be in the final cut riser.  

I would like to hear how you guys do this or if there is a better way (not having a cnc machine that is)
Title: Re: New form...Bow FInished Page 3
Post by: Apex Predator on May 06, 2009, 09:44:00 AM
Alot of eyballing and repeated sanding!  My jig doesn't work worth a darn, so I have been free handing each piece and then sanding to the line.
Title: Re: New form...Bow FInished Page 3
Post by: Mike Most on May 06, 2009, 10:57:00 AM
I use a band saw and free hand them, spotting them in by holding them up to the light, but I think the finish is the accent strip between the  two.

I cant wait to see the finished product.

Mike
Title: Re: New form...Bow FInished Page 3
Post by: kennym on May 06, 2009, 08:17:00 PM
I made a jig to cut with bandsaw,but it isn't 100% sanding free!!
Title: Re: New form...Bow FInished Page 3
Post by: bjansen on May 22, 2009, 11:58:00 PM
Alright. I got the bow all glued up.  Unfortunetely I did not have any .001 taper rate lams...like i thought I did, so I just went with 1 tapered lam (at .002).

I used .040 clear glass and each limb has 1 .120 (tapered at .002 per in), and 2 .060 paralell lams.  I missed a few photo opportunities, so the first pic is out of the oven, with 4 overlays added to the grip (white and red .030 glass).  

 (http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/Turkey%20bow/DSCN0300.jpg)

 (http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/Turkey%20bow/DSCN0301.jpg)
Title: Re: New form...Bow FInished Page 3
Post by: bjansen on May 23, 2009, 12:01:00 AM
Next I added some tip overlays.  I used white and red phenolic.  

 (http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/Turkey%20bow/DSCN0302.jpg)

Rough sanded:

 (http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/Turkey%20bow/DSCN0304.jpg)
Title: Re: New form...Bow FInished Page 3
Post by: bjansen on May 23, 2009, 12:02:00 AM
Now for the handle

 (http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/Turkey%20bow/DSCN0308.jpg)

 (http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/Turkey%20bow/DSCN0309.jpg)
Title: Re: New form...Bow FInished Page 3
Post by: bjansen on May 23, 2009, 12:03:00 AM
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/Turkey%20bow/DSCN0310.jpg)

Now to see those overlays come to life

 (http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/Turkey%20bow/DSCN0313.jpg)
Title: Re: New form...Bow FInished Page 3
Post by: bjansen on May 23, 2009, 12:03:00 AM
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/Turkey%20bow/DSCN0316.jpg)
Title: Re: New form...Bow FInished Page 3
Post by: bjansen on May 23, 2009, 12:11:00 AM
Now for the interesting part.  I made the limbs very thin down to the tips.  This works great on a longbow, but not on a limb that does not fully roll out (i.e. like a recurve).  

I was expecting these limbs to unroll a bit more than they did and when they didn't I ended up with a very touchy, unstable bow when strung.  A hard bump would twist the limb and send that string off.  

I came up with an idea to try to make this a usable shooter.  When full drawn the bow is great and it shot great well, but I needed some string grooves or some other device to ensure after it was fired, the string would return to, and stay on center, even if bumped.  So I made some moveable string guides (similar to what you would see on a horse bow).  I taped them on and shot the bow until I found a good spot.

   (http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/Turkey%20bow/DSCN0315.jpg)
Title: Re: New form...Bow FInished Page 3
Post by: bjansen on May 23, 2009, 12:17:00 AM
It actually worked well, so I made some nicer ones from Coreflex S/A and made a nice round place for the strings to slide into.  My plan is to put a cork backing on these and them tie them on once the bow is finished.  In the end they will be secure, but not permently affixed to the limbs.    

  (http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/Turkey%20bow/DSCN0330.jpg)

  (http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/Turkey%20bow/DSCN0318.jpg)
Title: Re: New form...Bow FInished Page 3
Post by: bjansen on May 23, 2009, 12:20:00 AM
This one should finish out at around 48-50 lbs, 57" ntn.


It is very light and shoots pretty good so far.  Now I just need to sand and finish.
Title: Re: New form...Bow FInished Page 3
Post by: kennym on May 23, 2009, 04:41:00 PM
Cool!!  What would more taper do for you? How does she bend when drawn?
Title: Re: New form...Bow FInished Page 3
Post by: bjansen on May 23, 2009, 09:28:00 PM
I think more taper would have been better, like you initially said it would make those ends unroll.  Currently at full draw the tips are retaining some of that reflex.  I think this design would work really well with a .004 taper rate and recurve style profile on the limbs.
Title: Re: New form...Bow FInished Page 3
Post by: wihill on May 24, 2009, 02:05:00 AM
Wow, that one turned out beautiful!
Title: Re: New form...Bow FInished Page 3
Post by: rkmnt2 on May 24, 2009, 08:54:00 AM
Interesting fix Brad. With that much recurve and the narrow limb, I'll bet it's pretty scary to shoot! lol.
  What if you were to cut an inch or so off each end to get the string off the limb a bit more?
  Don
Title: Re: New form...Bow FInished Page 3
Post by: bjansen on May 24, 2009, 10:51:00 AM
Yeah, it was pretty scary to shoot at first...But it does well with those guides. IFf the guides didnt work I was goign to try to chop some off each end.  The bow is currently 57" ntn, so I didn't have too much to work with.
Title: Re: New form...Bow FInished Page 3
Post by: Pennsyltuckey pete on May 25, 2009, 04:15:00 PM
That is one nice looking bow!  I like the string guides and the way you determined where they needed to be.

pete
Title: Re: New form...Bow FInished Page 3
Post by: bjansen on June 07, 2009, 05:54:00 PM
Well Rkmt2...I took your advice..thought about this many times..but it took a while to make the decision... I cut off those nice tips about 1.25" on each side and got the string to track.  

It worked out great.  I got the twist out and the string to track correctly and the poundage is back up to around 52-55.  No more need for the string trackers and I now have a two little tips to make cuff links out of!

 (http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/Turkey%20bow/DSCN0410-1.jpg)

Added a bunch more overlays, front and back...14 laminations from one side of the tip to the other.

 (http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/Turkey%20bow/DSCN0388-1.jpg)

 (http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/Turkey%20bow/DSCN0409-1.jpg)
Title: Re: New form...Bow FInished Page 3
Post by: bjansen on June 07, 2009, 05:59:00 PM
Final bow finished at 54.5" nock to nock. About 53# and shoots better than I ever imagined.  I really need to get a chrono to put a # to it...but from what I can tell it shoots very fast..much faster than I ever expected and very little handshock.  I am very suprised at how well it turned out and am very happy with it..It is one of my favorites for sure.  


For the finish I used 3 brush coats of Thunderbird and then 4 light spray coats for a matt texured finish.  10 strand FF string with padded B-50 Loops.


Here are the final pics.

 (http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/Turkey%20bow/DSCN0423.jpg)

 (http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/Turkey%20bow/DSCN0425.jpg)
Title: Re: New form...Bow FInished Page 3
Post by: bjansen on June 07, 2009, 06:01:00 PM
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/Turkey%20bow/DSCN0426.jpg)

 (http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/Turkey%20bow/DSCN0427.jpg)

 (http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/Turkey%20bow/DSCN0427.jpg)

 (http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/Turkey%20bow/DSCN0428.jpg)

 (http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/Turkey%20bow/DSCN0429.jpg)

 (http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/Turkey%20bow/DSCN0437.jpg)

 (http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/Turkey%20bow/DSCN0435.jpg)
Title: Re: New form...Bow FInished Page 3
Post by: bjansen on June 07, 2009, 06:09:00 PM
If any one wants the MDF template I used, PM me..and if anyone wants the form I made for this bow PM as well.  I would be glad to pass it on for the material cost, given you post a pic or two of the bow you make from it.
Title: Re: New form...Bow FInished Page 3
Post by: rkmnt2 on June 07, 2009, 07:43:00 PM
Looks pretty nice Brad! Kind of a recurve with a longbow handle...Hybrid to the extreme!
   I really love your overlay work too. You're a very creative guy. Could be your claim to fame!
    Don
Title: Re: New form...Bow FInished Page 3
Post by: bjansen on June 08, 2009, 01:18:00 AM
Thanks Don.  Im glad I chopped it down a bit like you suggested.
Title: Re: New form...Bow FInished Page 3
Post by: greyhawk39 on June 11, 2009, 03:17:00 AM
That bow is the definition of hybred,job well done.Overlay's look great is that e-glass or linen marcarta...
Title: Re: New form...Bow FInished Page 3
Post by: SteveD on June 11, 2009, 04:49:00 AM
Very Nice. Great Work
Title: Re: New form...Bow FInished Page 3
Post by: bjansen on June 11, 2009, 08:01:00 AM
Greyhawk, all of the final overlays are .030 e-glass.  The first tip overlays I put on were linen phenolic (but I ended up chopping them off).

Thanks
Title: Re: New form...Bow FInished Page 3
Post by: Bob Sarrels on June 16, 2009, 11:09:00 PM
I just could not get it right by cutting each piece individually so now I always make 2 risers at the same time.  Mirrors of each other.  I hot melt 2 opposing pieces together and cut both at the same time.  Pop them apart and switch parts.  Comes out perfect every time.
Title: Re: New form...Bow FInished Page 3
Post by: dutchwarbow on June 17, 2009, 04:34:00 AM
that's one hell of a hot bow  :)

Nick
Title: Re: New form...Bow FInished Page 3
Post by: ranger 3 on June 17, 2009, 08:37:00 AM
Brad, it looks better than when I saw it. Great job, you are working your way up to be a master Boyer.
Title: Re: New form...Bow FInished Page 3
Post by: mwmwmb on June 17, 2009, 08:42:00 AM
good looking bow. I like the riser shape.