Trad Gang
Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: Apex Predator on April 10, 2009, 09:31:00 AM
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My buddy Scott has my first R/D longbow, and now I am building him my first hybrid. I am shooting for 55-60@28 and 62" NTN. Hopefully I will come close! She has osage and wenge in the riser, action boo core, and bamboo limb faces. He wanted to stain the bamboo, and this is what we came up with. It's Tandy leather dye in dark brown, but it looks more green to me. What do you guys think?
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/HybridProto-1.jpg)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/HybridProto-2.jpg)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/HybridProto-3.jpg)
Here is the form that I will use for the lay-up.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/Hybridform-1.jpg)
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I've got everything ready for the lay-up tonight. I had to build some new pressure strips to fit this form. I used 1/16" X 1 1/2" aluminum for the base, a strip of rubber on the bottom where it contacts the bow, and a piece of PVC trim for the crown piece. The crown serves to ensure that the edges don't get all the pressure from my rubber clamping strips. Without the crown the center would not get enough pressure. I then wrap them well with plastic wrap. That roll in the last photo gets used a whole lot in my shop, and I recommend it to anyone building bows. You can get them at Home Depot or similiar.
After assembly, I tweak the ends of the strips to mate well with the fades on my riser. All of this will greatly assist in a pain free lay-up and great glue lines.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-10-09-1.jpg)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-10-09-2.jpg)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-10-09-3.jpg)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-10-09-4.jpg)
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This is going to be great...Cant wait to see how it comes out!
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Looks like a huntin machine to me!! Can't wait to see it!
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Like I said on the first post, with that form it looks to be a screamer @ 55# ,keep it come'n. I think you are doing a great job on these build-alongs!
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I don't know how you make it look so easy, Marty, but you've got it down pat.
:thumbsup:
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Cool idea on disributing that preassure. Cant wait to see the results.
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I decided to spend the evening with my wife and kids. Gotta do that as much as I can. I spent too many years overseas in the Navy, and have to make up time. I got back to work this morning.
Here is the riser sitting in the form. I thought it would be harder to build than what I am used to, since all my previous risers were straight on the back.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-11-09-1.jpg)
When sanding the fades on my spindle sander, I use this quick 2X4 for backing. It makes it much easier to get the ends very thin.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-11-09-3.jpg)
I measure smooth-on in these 9 oz plastic cups. I just make sure they are equal. I figure I have 3.5-4oz of each part.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-11-09-4.jpg)
I dab the epoxy on the lams and then spread with this wall paper seam roller. Works really well for me.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-11-09-5.jpg)
I am building my lam stack on the work bench until it's time to lay on the riser. I then lay that stack on my form. I made some alignment marks on the form and my lams so that it will line up properly. Got to make sure that it will fit between the end stop washers on my form when I start clamping it down.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-11-09-6.jpg)
Then I butter up the bottom of the riser. I go really heavy on the epoxy in the vicinity of the fades.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-11-09-7.jpg)
I then clamp it to the stack on the form, making sure it is aligned to center.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-11-09-8.jpg)
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Here is a shot of the whole bow.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-11-09-9.jpg)
I used electrical tape to hold the lams down while setting my pressure strips.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-11-09-10.jpg)
Then I place my pressure strips and start wrapping rubber! I start mid limb and wrap towards the tip on each limb. Then I will go back and forth between limbs until I am out of rubber. Normally this means 12-14 strips total. I can get a lot of pressure on the fades like this.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-11-09-11.jpg)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-11-09-12.jpg)
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Here is my fancy, high tech oven. First I have to shift into warm weather mode! During the winter I use four 100w bulbs, but now I change them out to 75w bulbs. I place them around the form and then place my cheap pvc and water heater insulation box over the top. I use a $5 light timer from Walmart set to 5 hours. My meat thermometer will top out around 160-170. When I get home from work tonight she will be ready to remove.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-11-09-13.jpg)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-11-09-14.jpg)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-11-09-15.jpg)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-11-09-16.jpg)
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Looks good Marty. Nice Job
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I like that hot box !! i'm gonna make one too !!
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Great buildalong Marty!!
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Oh baby, she's looking good!
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The blank came out of the form in really great shape! Not the first air bubble or flaw.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-11-09-18.jpg)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-11-09-19.jpg)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-11-09-20.jpg)
Here is how much spring back I got out of the form. It's only about 5/32".
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-11-09-21.jpg)
Now to find a center line and profile the limbs. I normally mark the center at the riser and stretch a string. When I get it all lined up properly I will mark the tips. Then just connect the marks.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-11-09-22.jpg)
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Sweet fades Marty, centerline looks tops too!
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Wow - just, wow. Awesome build Marty!!! Your tips are great!!
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all of your builds are awesome. its amazing what i have learned from reading them. i was wondering where you got the rubber that you use on the pressure strip? can't wait to see the finished bow!
eric
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Eric, I cut them from old bicycle inner tubes that I pick up for free at the bike shop.
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Great build along Apex...those fades are perfect. I am consistenly impressed on how clean, orderly and well planned your builds are...Great job!
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thanks but, i was talking about the ones you glued to your piece of aluminum. it may not be rubber, i was just assuming it was.
thanks, eric
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They are used for flooring. I forget what they are called. They come 4' long by about 5-6" wide.
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Nice work Marty, your making it look way too easy. :rolleyes: :bigsmyl:
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Well, my lam stack guess on this one was off pretty far. Since it's my first on this form, I can live with it. Scott settled on a 64" bow, since that is what offers the highest performance potential. He really wanted a 60-62". It was only gonna make a 41-42# bow though! The blank drew 45@28. I cut it down to 62" NTN and it drew 51@28. Finally after chopping another inch off each end to get it to 60" NTN, the blank draws 56@28. I think he will be very happy. I figure it will finish in the 53# range.
Here are the overlay materials that I will laminate onto the bow tonight. Another photo shows the net reflex. It's just under an inch, which should be plenty.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-13-09-2.jpg)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-13-09-3.jpg)
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this looks great ,I am building a form as we speak.Can't wait to get building my first homemad bow!
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This morning I hit it again before work.
I decided to go with wenge/osage instead of phenolic/osage for the overlays. So I had to build them. I used rubber strips for clamping and thought all was good until lay-up. I could press the end of the riser overlay and get quite a bit of squeeze out after clamping. I had to clamp it tighter with c-clamps. I think it's all good now. My heat lamps will give me about 130 deg at this distance from the bow.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-14-09-1.jpg)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-14-09-2.jpg)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-14-09-3.jpg)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-14-09-5.jpg)
In order to get good transitions between my overlays and the back glass, I wipe any beaded up epoxy off the joint, and start with pre-beveled pieces.
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:thumbsup: :campfire: :)
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This morning I worked on tips. These are the tools I use to cut my string grooves. I draw a diagnal line on both sides 1" down from the very end. I cut a small line with the triangle file right along the line. Then I widen it with the tile saw. Finally to full size with the chainsaw file. I do a lot of eye balling while cutting grooves. Between tools I can correct any alignment discrepancies when going to the next larger cutting tool.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-15-09-0.jpg)
Here is my tip after taking off the clamps.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-15-09-1.jpg)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-15-09-2.jpg)
First I go to the belt sander and take the overlays down to match the profile of the limb. I'll start contouring the sides here as well.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-15-09-3.jpg)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-15-09-4.jpg)
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Looking good !!
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Now I file the groove over the sides of the overlay, staying online with the original groove. It's critical to pay attention to what you are doing here. Eye ball it from all angles constantly as you go. I carefully take the grooves over the top a small amount at the time. Small alignment errors can be corrected as you go. This is an incremental process for me.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-15-09-5.jpg)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-15-09-6.jpg)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-15-09-7.jpg)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-15-09-8.jpg)
I like to keep my tips square until the groove is cut initially. It helps me keep everything aligned. I then round the top of the tip and profile it all the way around.
Here you can see after rounding the top. The groove needs to be deepened and dressed.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-15-09-9.jpg)
Getting smoother here! Notice how I feathered the joint as well. If you have a clean glue-up, and aren't afraid of 80 grit, you can make a jam up job of it.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-15-09-10.jpg)
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Now I take my chainsaw file and carry the groove towards the belly.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-15-09-11.jpg)
I've got some new files to try out. These are Cutzall files in 26, 80, and I think 120 grit. They are carbide files and suposed to work really well on wood and glass.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-15-09-12.jpg)
I now have to relieve the limb tip on the belly just past the string groove so that the string doesn't hang on the front of the groove when drawing the bow. That 80 grit file worked really well!
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-15-09-13.jpg)
Here is her strung profile.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-15-09-14.jpg)
Total time for both tips this morning was around 1.5 hours.
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Man that looks great Apex!..great overlay tutorial...i wish i would have saw this 8 months ago!..Looks excellent
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That thing just looks fast, great lines. I'm a "D" bow kinda guy, but that bow looks like its good to be hot!!!
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u wouldn't happen to have a paper template of that
form i could have,,,,Do u ??? thanks in advance.
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And I would love to know the details on the lams, thickness, tapers and so forth. I can probably use the photos on this and photoshop them to get the form lines.
At any rate I feel I've learned more following this that I have in the last several months looking at other build alongs. Specially like seeing the rubberband form used. I know many use this in making all wood bows but didn't know if it would work good with glass bows.
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Love that profile, Marty. That thing just looks wickedly understated.
Where did you pick those files up at? Local or off the web? They look like they could make quick work of a grip with a little patience.
Keep it goin'!!
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Lookin good Marty!!
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apex i really love your build-a-longs!!! i learn lots from them. out of curiosity, do you have a set depth that you cut your string grooves? not that i know that much about building bows but, this one is looking good as all the others you build. can't wait for the next post.
eric
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Wharvey, I used .040 glass, the riser is 17" long, my core is one .001/inch tapered action boo lam, and two .001/inch tapered bamboo lams. Total stack, measured at the butt end of the lams is .377. She will finish out at 52@28 and is 60" NTN.
Wihill, I ordered these off of the big auction site. Cutzall closeouts, I think. They were $10-12 each.
eman614, I just eye ball them.
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I got some more work done last night and this morning. First I took the riser to my spindle sander.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-16-09-1.jpg)
Now the scary part! I use a hack saw and chisel to cut out the sight window. I start by drawing a center line on back and belly for reference. I want to take this one to center. I will cut almost to the line with the hack saw and then chisel out the chunks. After most of the removal is done I will take it to the line with a rasp.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-16-09-2.jpg)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-16-09-3.jpg)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-16-09-4.jpg)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-16-09-5.jpg)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-16-09-6.jpg)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-16-09-7.jpg)
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Starting to look like a bow now!
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-16-09-8.jpg)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-16-09-9.jpg)
She has 3/4" of meat left for strength.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-16-09-10.jpg)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-16-09-11.jpg)
Now I take an hour or so to remove everything that doesn't look right or feel right in my hand. A rasp and 80 grit sand paper is what I use here.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-16-09-12.jpg)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-16-09-13.jpg)
Now for the best part! I took her out back and shot a few. Man is she sweet!
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Very nice!!!!
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Makin it look easy!!! Great lookin grip!!! :thumbsup:
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An excellent tutorial! That wenge and osage sure make a nice contrast. The profile is very much like what I use for my 62" rd, plenty of speed for sure.
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I sure wish mine would look that good. Outstanding work Marty. Keep it up.
Shawn
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Beautiful work, Marty! How's it shoot?!
:D
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Great work Marty. Looks great
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Shoots great! I was hoping that he would want me to build him another, since this one came in 3-4# less than he was hoping for. He wants this one! Oh well, I'll build me another.
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Very nice!!!!!
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looks great!!
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I'm going hunting for three days this weekend, so won't get this one finished until next week. Stay tuned for an update.
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It really does look great. I want to build one a bit longer since I have a fairly long draw length so will guess on the stack thickness to get about 45 lbs. Doubt it will be much thicker.
One question though and this is one I've seen on other threads with incredibly varied answers. How far above the center of the bow did you put your shelf? From the pictures it looks to be about an inch.
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I love your work and that you share it with us. Beautiful bow, Marty. Looking forward to seeing it completed.
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I haven't worked on this one much lately, but thought I would give you folks an update.
This wenge is gonna take a while to fill the grain on. I final sanded it and then brushed on Fullerplast with one of those sponge applicators. Usually one or two coats will do it, but this wenge will take more. I sand down to bare wood between coats. This is the riser after applying one coat, and then after sanding it off.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/04-25-09-1.jpg)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/04-25-09-2.jpg)
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Cool...I just got some Wenge to build with for the first time. I'll be using T-bird spread on with fingers to fill. I'm excited to have a new wood to work with. I love that bow your building by the way. How do you like that fullerplast for taking hits or deep scratches? I'm not sold on T-Bird but theres something about coating a bow in a Epoxy that makes me feel it will be "best" protected. I may like the looks of fuller slightly better though.
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Hey Marty, did you put this one on the back burner. Got to see the finished results.....
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This finishing has been kicking my tail, but yes I have slowed down on it. The guy I was building it for decided he wanted more draw weight, so I will build him another!! This one will be for sale. This wenge is tough! I have used thick Fullerplast, CA, CA gel, and still haven't filled the grain. I have sealed and sanded this riser 18-20 times, and people complain about custom bow prices! I am spraying another that I had to take some weight off of, and then it's back to this one.
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Unbelievable...Well Apex you are much more patient than me...last time I gave up after 4 coat/sand sessions. Have you ever tried any other sealer product...I hear a High Solids Vynl sealer works good, but I have not personally tried it.... I know it is compatable with Epoxy finishes, so I am assuming it would be compatable with Fuller plast as well.
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Marty,
I wish I had the extra income right now or I would make a deal with you.
BTW, have you thought of using smooth on as a wood filler? I notice that when bows are taken out of the oven and unwrapped the epoxy appears to cover everything very well. Just a thought.
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Keep at it, I know it will come out fine!!
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Marty, one of the custom duck call makers I used to know made me a call out of wenge. He told me he had the same issue trying to fill the grain. I think he finally used a wood putty to fill in the voids. That is a sweet looking bow. Can't wait to see the finished product.
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I finally finished this one. It took me three weeks to seal the pores in the wenge! I probably finished and sanded this riser 18-20 times. It's beautiful, but a real pain!
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Apex%20bows/FirstHybrid-1.jpg)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Apex%20bows/FirstHybrid-2.jpg)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Apex%20bows/FirstHybrid-4.jpg)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Apex%20bows/FirstHybrid-5.jpg)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Apex%20bows/FirstHybrid-3.jpg)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Apex%20bows/FirstHybrid-6.jpg)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Apex%20bows/FirstHybrid-7.jpg)
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Nice!!!
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Nice job there apex she is rewarding in the end.I am going to build a wenge riser and osage take down recurve aswell and noticed the wenge has alot of pores in it and sanding should be fun maybe try some super glue or smooth on to fill them and sand with fine grit...but that's all part of bow building if it was easy everybody would be doing it..lol.But job well done should be a great shooter. :clapper:
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Very Nice Marty. Another Beauty
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Another great one Marty!
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As usual There Marty you are styling and profiling. Keep up the good work.
Shawn
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Outstanding!
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Real pretty stuff Marty! The time you spent on the finish paid off.
Don
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Just thought you folks would like a full draw shot of this one. Here is my buddy Martin, who wound up with the bow. It came in too light for Scott.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/Tiller.jpg)
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That is one fine looking stick :clapper:
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simply stunning riser! pretty unusual, but a great choice!
I've only had a single attempt at wengé as riser (on a simple bbi) and the linseed oil I applied to it didn't really do justice to the wood.
to compare:
(before)
(http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/hh367/hanshanssam/bows/BBI%20pyramid/IMG_6600.jpg)
(after)
(http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/hh367/hanshanssam/bows/2bbi%202bbm/IMG_0348.jpg)
Nick
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love the way you used the spindle sander to create the grip...you used a 1" from the fade to the shelf, and then a 2" down from that?
looks great, but it sounds like wenge is too much trouble...i hear ya when ya say custom bow prices are worth it!
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I used a 2" for everything. I just use it for rough wood removal, and then go to a 1" belt sander, then rasp, and finally sandpaper by hand.