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Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: razorback on February 10, 2009, 01:09:00 PM

Title: Unidentified wood UPDATE: And the winner is
Post by: razorback on February 10, 2009, 01:09:00 PM
UPDATE!!!
After consultation with the local Forestry service office and a local cabinet maker, the best guess is Yellow Birch, probably heartwood. the bow is coming along nicely and will have more updates for it in my other thread "pleaase check my longstring tiller."

Ok. Digging around today looking for some 2*10" to make a caul for another bow, and found a piece of timber 2"*10" and about 7' long. Is very heavy and straight. First thought was I could use it as the caul. Second thought was I could make a bow out of it. Took it to the workshop and cut a 2"*2" piece. As you can see from the photos it is nearly quarter sawn and I was thinking of having the grain run vertical through the bow. Is this a problem, I don't think it should be as the grain runs straight the length of the stave.

I also do not know what type of wood it is. It is from a rough cut board that has been sitting around in the barn for years. Very dry and out of the weather. Little punky on one end but cut that out and wood seems very solid. Thought it might be Cherry but no deep coloring of the board. It has been in the dark attic of the barn for most of its time but even that should have caused some darkening.

  (http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu207/aussiearcher/009.jpg)

  (http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu207/aussiearcher/010.jpg)

Also any thoughts on design for a bow out of this wood, would be appreciated.
Title: Re: Unidentified wood UPDATE: And the winner is
Post by: No-sage on February 10, 2009, 05:41:00 PM
With unknown lumber, it's always best to test the specific gravity of the wood.  This will give you a good basis of it's stength and will help lead you to a sound design.

To test the SG, cut out a 1/2" square piece 4" long.  Float this in a narrow cylinder.  Measure the part that remained out of the water.  If you had 1" above water, 3" under, the SG is .75.  2" above and 2" under, SG = .50.
Title: Re: Unidentified wood UPDATE: And the winner is
Post by: razorback on February 10, 2009, 09:37:00 PM
Well did some testing for specific gravity and these are the results. I tested three pieces and averaged the results. Sample 1 = 70.8, sample 2 = 73.1 and sample 3 =67.7. I rounded them to the nearest whole number and came up with an SG of 71. i also did a sample of Osage that came in at 87, which seemed a little high. So if allowing for slightly faulty technique in measuring, I would say this wood has an sg of 70 +/- 3.
the wood has a slightly pinkish tinge to it and tight straight grain. Has a low ratio of early to late wood in the rings. looking at Tim Bakers list of bow woods this could fit into the Hickory or Hophornbeam range, though I have no experience with either so don't know what they look like.
Title: Re: Unidentified wood UPDATE: And the winner is
Post by: talkingcabbage on February 10, 2009, 10:06:00 PM
I'd guess pecan, but it's just a guess.
Title: Re: Unidentified wood UPDATE: And the winner is
Post by: razorback on February 10, 2009, 11:06:00 PM
Well am starting to draw up my design and realized that if i cut this 2" square piece down the middle and glued on a handle i cold get 2 bows out of the one piece. So i am thinking of 2 different designs. the first one being a flat bow staying the same width most of the length of the bow and tapering to a 1/2' nock over the last 1/4 of the limb. The second will taper to the 1/2" nock from the fades. Also thinking of doing a bend in the handle bow.
I am fairly new to this so all my bows are experiments and exercises in skill development. I am also really enjoying it.
  :bigsmyl:
Title: Re: Unidentified wood UPDATE: And the winner is
Post by: Clay Hayes on February 11, 2009, 10:33:00 PM
When you've got a piece of wood with ring structure like that, that is, distinguishable yearly rings but a gradiant from early to late wood, it's called "diffuse porus" - as opposed to "ring porus"

As to the species, I'm not sure.  Pecan is a hickory and I may lean toward that genus.

ch
Title: Re: Unidentified wood UPDATE: And the winner is
Post by: Aeronut on February 11, 2009, 10:46:00 PM
The 'pinkish' color makes me think of Honey Locust.

Dennis
Title: Re: Unidentified wood UPDATE: And the winner is
Post by: Asafan on February 12, 2009, 04:08:00 AM
It is difficult to determine a kind of a tree on such photos. The sanded cut and zoom the staff will help.
 http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/locust.htm
Title: Re: Unidentified wood UPDATE: And the winner is
Post by: razorback on February 12, 2009, 06:40:00 AM
Ok. Lets go with Hickory or locust. Any suggestions for Board Bow design's. The board is 1 7/8 wide and 7/8 thick. I have a handle of cherry put on one and it is 68" long tip-to-tip.
Title: Re: Unidentified wood UPDATE: And the winner is
Post by: Asafan on February 12, 2009, 08:58:00 AM
The good size for bow. It is necessary to leave full width in 5" above and below the centre to make about 1,5" in middle of a limb and a wedge by the end 5/8". Thickness limb will turn out about 1/2" for 55-60# bow.
Title: Re: Unidentified wood UPDATE: And the winner is
Post by: huey on February 15, 2009, 12:43:00 PM
Clay does that mean pecan makes a bow close to hickory.
Title: Re: Unidentified wood UPDATE: And the winner is
Post by: Big Riser on February 15, 2009, 01:10:00 PM
I think Aeronut is right it looks like honey locust to me. I just stacked about 150 board ft.of the honey locust lumber.
I have a bandmill, been cutting alot of walnut, red cedar, & ash. Plan on building a few bows & and will use the locust.Locust some what looks like red oak. But I think you have honey locust there.
Title: Re: Unidentified wood UPDATE: And the winner is
Post by: razorback on February 17, 2009, 07:32:00 AM
Any one got a good design for locust. From ready it needs a good design and tiller or it will chrysal.
Title: Re: Unidentified wood UPDATE: And the winner is
Post by: Jim now in Kentucky on February 19, 2009, 10:43:00 PM
Guys, all locust is ring porous, which this sample is not.

Hornbeam is cream colored.

Looks like dogwood to me, including the pinkish color.
Title: Re: Unidentified wood UPDATE: And the winner is
Post by: razorback on February 20, 2009, 07:30:00 AM
Does dogwood make boards 12" wide and does it grow in the Adirondacks.
Title: Re: Unidentified wood UPDATE: And the winner is
Post by: eman614 on February 21, 2009, 05:18:00 PM
what about persimmon? i don't know much about different woods, but my grandpa had a lot of persimmon that looked alot like that would. just a thought.
Title: Re: Unidentified wood UPDATE: And the winner is
Post by: dino on February 22, 2009, 10:52:00 AM
Don't know if dogwood gets that big, but does kinda look like it.  What about Red Elm.  They can get that big, have that growth ring structure, the pinkish color and grow up there too.  That was my first guess when I saw it. dino
Title: Re: Unidentified wood UPDATE: And the winner is
Post by: razorback on February 22, 2009, 01:10:00 PM
Well i am starting the first bow with this wood. It is 67" ntn, 41/2" handle, 2"fades, 1 7/8" wide out about halfway and tapering to 1/2 nocks. I have it on the long string and am getting even tiller and reducing weight. Is responding well so far. Will post pictures real soon.
Also has a handle of cherry glued on.
Title: Re: Unidentified wood UPDATE: And the winner is
Post by: razorback on February 22, 2009, 01:14:00 PM
Just checked the Elms on the list of bow woods and don't think it has an SG heavy enough for what I got on this wood, 70+.
Title: Re: Unidentified wood UPDATE: And the winner is
Post by: Clay Hayes on February 27, 2009, 09:48:00 AM
Dogwood will get that big, but they're few and far between.  The color is close but the grain from the top pic doesn't look right.  I'd rule out dogwood, and persimmon as well.

razorback, if this thing ends up a shooter, your gonna have to send in a sample for DNA analysis.  

ch
Title: Re: Unidentified wood UPDATE: And the winner is
Post by: Pat B on February 27, 2009, 10:05:00 AM
Elm will make a great bow and in about any draw weight you would want. Marc St Louis has made some beautiful, high performance static recurves selfbows from elm. It was one of the "other" war bow woods in Europe during the Middle Ages too,  I believe.
   From the pics you first posted the wood looks more like spruce to me. Is it definitely a "hardwood"?
Title: Re: Unidentified wood UPDATE: And the winner is
Post by: razorback on February 27, 2009, 02:24:00 PM
Pat. Is there a definitive way to tell the diference between soft and hardwoods. The SG is 70+, no dent from a fingernail and grain does not raise when wet. I have a bow started and have it to low brace. it is bending well and has very little string follow. Limbs are 1 7/8" wide at fade out to midlimb then taper to 1/2" nock.
Title: Re: Unidentified wood UPDATE: And the winner is
Post by: Pat B on February 27, 2009, 02:41:00 PM
Sounds like a hardwood to me. Looking forward to seeing the finished bow.     Pat
Title: Re: Unidentified wood UPDATE: And the winner is
Post by: razorback on February 27, 2009, 03:36:00 PM
Pat. I am cutting Slices off a board that is 2" thick, hence the width of the bow  :jumper:  Since the rings run vertical in the bow is it possible to make recurves or do the rings need to be horizontal for this design. I will probably be able to get 6 or 7 bows out of this board and I would like to try a couple of designs. Might even give an ELB a shot.
Title: Re: Unidentified wood UPDATE: And the winner is
Post by: Pat B on February 27, 2009, 04:21:00 PM
You will have to test the wood to see which way it bends the best. Probably flat grained like with a stave. Being that it is a sawn board, I would back it. Also, recurves add more stress to the limbs and unless I have a perfect back ring I would back it with something.
Title: Re: Unidentified wood UPDATE: And the winner is
Post by: razorback on February 27, 2009, 04:56:00 PM
Would backing it with bamboo or hickory be a good option or would you think some cloth would be all it would need.
Title: Re: Unidentified wood UPDATE: And the winner is
Post by: Pat B on February 27, 2009, 07:07:00 PM
I'm not sure. I've never made a recurve from a board. I would probably go with hickory but linen might also be an option.
Title: Re: Unidentified wood UPDATE: And the winner is
Post by: razorback on February 27, 2009, 07:27:00 PM
We have a forestry office in town. i think I may take a sample down to them and see what they think. It is behaving very nicely so far and I would like to know what it is for future reference and maybe finding a stave. Will let you know what they say.
Title: Re: Unidentified wood UPDATE: And the winner is
Post by: razorback on March 03, 2009, 01:29:00 PM
TTT