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Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: Shaun on August 21, 2008, 11:11:00 PM

Title: Take down build- along - COMPLETED
Post by: Shaun on August 21, 2008, 11:11:00 PM

After posting my take down yew, a couple folks asked for a build-along. Well, here goes...

I have made a total of one of these before so we will be winging it just like the first one. Please feel free to chime in with better ideas, suggestions, experience and criticism as I am here to learn too.

I have met several other bowyers who - like me - picked up a sleeve type take down on a whim and had it knocking around for years. That one became the Yew Tube bow. I ordered a couple more from 3 Rivers (sponsor) and they arrived today. I got one large and one small sleeve type handle sets.

I picked out a funky but dry stave, chased a ring and then whacked it in half to represent billets. Here's the "billets" with the small sleeve set.

  (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/takedown001.jpg)

The first thing I do is take the set apart using a drift to hammer out the one brass that is all the way in. It looks like maybe the makers expect one to fit the top limb into the assembled handle and glue it in place. Fortunately, no instructions come with these sleeves, so we will not be feeling any guilt about the usual practice of ignoring the instructions. Shown here are both handle sets with the smaller one disassembled

  (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/takedown002.jpg)

My method is to fit both brass pieces to the billets, glue them up and then fasten one into the handle and fit the other for easy take down.

These take down sets consist of a steel outer tube and two brass insert tubes. They are bent into a narrow "D" shape with the flat side being the front of the handle. When I cut the stave into "billets" I did a rough lay out first and cut through the center of the handle area which is slightly below the center of this 60" stick.

Mark the end of the billets for the outline of the brass sleeves.

  (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/takedown003.jpg)

Title: Re: Take down build- along - COMPLETED
Post by: Shaun on August 21, 2008, 11:21:00 PM

Now it starts getting a little deep. How are we going to get these things to line up? I have seen some suggestions for gluing up the pieces in the assembled handle, but this seems like a recipe for a steel handled one piece to me. By using billets, we have some play in the layout after glue up and we can put the whole thing on a caul after floor tiller rough out.

So we are going to set the pieces up in a vise - 3 or 4 hands would help with this - and mark the handle.

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/takedown007.jpg)

Note that I have marked a center line to help with sighting the layout. And used a wedge to help line up the closer billet.

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/takedown008.jpg)


Using the steel tube for a template we mark the handle path.

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/takedown010.jpg)

Title: Re: Take down build- along - COMPLETED
Post by: Shaun on August 21, 2008, 11:27:00 PM

Here is the long view of the layout. The close end is the bottom limb and it has some real issues near the tip - we'll worry about that later.

   (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/takedown011.jpg)

From the handle layout I marked 1 3/4" long fades with 1 1/2" width at the end of the fades. Using the band saw I've cut one out in this picture.

   (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/takedown012.jpg)

A few moments with a rasp and viola!

   (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/takedown013.jpg)

Title: Re: Take down build- along - COMPLETED
Post by: Shaun on August 21, 2008, 11:35:00 PM

OK OK it was a Jet 6 x 89 rasp - I am trying to do this in a timely fashion. You can do it with hand tools and I did on the yew bow with spoke shave and Nicholson rasps.

  (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/takedown015.jpg)

Here both ends are fitted into the brass and a trial light fitting into the center handle for alignment check.

  (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/takedown016.jpg)

The brass tubes are soft and easily deformed or stretched out of shape, so its better to have a little play in the fit than to force them over an out of shape end.

They say to always use Smooth On MT-13 for this glue up and sometimes I do follow directions. Here is the set ready to glue.

  (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/takedown017.jpg)

Title: Re: Take down build- along - COMPLETED
Post by: Shaun on August 21, 2008, 11:43:00 PM

And the glued up project for a good place to stop for today. I did sand the inside of the brass pieces to cut through any oils left from manufacture and tried to eyeball align the brass pieces after buttering glue on both wood and brass.

  (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/takedown018.jpg)

Title: Re: Take down build- along - COMPLETED
Post by: Pat B on August 21, 2008, 11:44:00 PM

This is gonna be good Shaun. I started fitting a large sleeve on a set of osage billets but I didn't like the big grip. What do you think about the small compared to the large? I ended up giving the sleeve away without completing the handle fit.
  I like the idea of a take down bow so I'll pay close attention to your progress.     Pat

Title: Re: Take down build- along - COMPLETED
Post by: Shaun on August 21, 2008, 11:55:00 PM

Pat, there's not a lot of difference in size between the large and small. The large one from 3 Rivers has a stainless steel tube and the small one a standard mild steel tube. Large straight grip handles do feel a little weird if you like me are used to bulbous handles but they shoot fine - good enough for Howard Hill. I used thin deer skin on my first one and did a skived glue  lap instead of stitching to to keep it as small as possible.

Title: Re: Take down build- along - COMPLETED
Post by: Pat B on August 22, 2008, 08:15:00 AM

I do prefer a bulbous grip. I guess the round sleeve could be filled out with leather to make a bulbous grip.     Pat

Title: Re: Take down build- along - COMPLETED
Post by: The Gopher on August 22, 2008, 08:26:00 AM

this is great i've been meaning to make a take down.

Pat, are giving away anymore bow building supplies?  :)

Title: Re: Take down build- along - COMPLETED
Post by: wislnwings on August 22, 2008, 08:43:00 AM

Shaun this is exactly what I wanted to see.  I've got the itch to do a sleeved takedown BBO.  I assume the process would be the same?  One question comes to mind though.  When sleeving a BBO does the sleeve fit over the bamboo backing or do you rasp down through it to fit?  Forming a shelf thatthe sleeve butts up against.  

I'm also a fan of a bulbous handle and was figuring I could just build up the sleeve with leather to form one.

Title: Re: Take down build- along - COMPLETED
Post by: bluegill on August 22, 2008, 09:18:00 AM

Looks great Shaun! I met a fella at Mojam a few years ago with a bulbous grip TD. When I asked him how he built up the handle he smiled and said "Bondo". Said it was waterproof,easy to shape and remove if you are not happy with it.

Title: Re: Take down build- along - COMPLETED
Post by: Dano on August 22, 2008, 09:18:00 AM

Just great Shaun  :rolleyes:  Where were you last week when I started my first take down.   :bigsmyl:  
  Nice job, I wish I had just bought the sleeves, I used an old bronze umbrella pole connection, that I crimped into an oval, works ok, or we shall see.

Title: Re: Take down build- along - COMPLETED
Post by: NEW GUY on August 22, 2008, 10:34:00 AM

Nice job Shaun.  Thanks for the pics.

Title: Re: Take down build- along - COMPLETED
Post by: BMN on August 22, 2008, 12:29:00 PM

Very nice! I'm going to be following this one with great interest. Thanks Shaun.   :thumbsup:

Title: Re: Take down build- along - COMPLETED
Post by: Shaun on August 22, 2008, 01:19:00 PM

Back to the project. Glue sets up overnight or faster with heat. The first thing you will notice is that the brass sleeves which were a real tight fit before now don't fit at all...

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/takedown019.jpg)

Good thing they are brass and soft enough to file with hand tools. Carefully file and test fit then file some more. The places that are still not fitting will show up as scratches in the brass as you try to force the pieces together. File off the scratched areas and try again.

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/takedown022.jpg)

The top limb only needs to be able to fit in once and it can be real tight. The bottom limb that will be removable needs to fit smoothly. Take your time and only remove the marked areas. Then polish it up.

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/takedown023.jpg)

Title: Re: Take down build- along - COMPLETED
Post by: Shaun on August 22, 2008, 01:26:00 PM

The top limb is tight but who knows what will happen over the years so we are going to pin it in place. I drill a hole just slightly smaller than my 3/16 brass rod stock into the handle. Then drill a 3/16 hole through just the metal.

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/takedown024.jpg)

Pound in the brass "nail" and cut it flush, peen it and file to finish. There, that outa hold it...

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/takedown025.jpg)

Got the bottom limb fitting just so and polished so we add some bowl wax to keep it from sticking and assemble.

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/takedown026.jpg)

Title: Re: Take down build- along - COMPLETED
Post by: Shaun on August 22, 2008, 01:34:00 PM

Here is how it turned out

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/takedown029.jpg)

Not perfect but within correctable margin since we have not laid out the profile or bent it on a caul yet. You could come a lot closer if you spend more time fitting the brass sleeves and checking lay out.

Next step is to get it roughed out closer to shape and floor tillered so we can put it on the caul.

This was a marginal stave with some lengthwise cracks. These don't bother me much, but they do need attention and thin super glue.

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/takedown030.jpg)

Here is the roughed out bow ready for heating on the caul as soon as the glue in the cracks has set up.

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/takedown031.jpg)

Title: Re: Take down build- along - COMPLETED
Post by: Pat B on August 22, 2008, 02:10:00 PM

Coming along nicely, Shaun.  Nice work.    Pat

Title: Re: Take down build- along - COMPLETED
Post by: Shaun on August 22, 2008, 02:44:00 PM

Next it gets worked down to the point of floor tiller. To me this means the point at which it is just starting to bend evenly trough the limb.

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/takedown033.jpg)

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/takedown032.jpg)

and the troublesome bottom limb too

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/takedown034.jpg)

Title: Re: Take down build- along - COMPLETED
Post by: Shaun on August 22, 2008, 02:50:00 PM

And onto the caul. At this point - before substantial bending has taken place - the wood can be shaped. Once you have the limb bending and learning to bend its harder to make changes.

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/takedown035.jpg)

Now for the judicious application of heat via the heat gun and some grape seed oil. As the wood becomes pliable large "C" clamps are set with small wood pads to keep from denting the softened osage.

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/takedown036.jpg)

Here's how that twisted bottom limb tip was hopefully tamed.

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/takedown037.jpg)

Title: Re: Take down build- along - COMPLETED
Post by: John Scifres on August 22, 2008, 03:52:00 PM

Shaun,

Great job.  Thanks for sharing.

John

Title: Re: Take down build- along - COMPLETED
Post by: JEFF B on August 22, 2008, 05:02:00 PM

awesome shaun!!

Title: Re: Take down build- along - COMPLETED
Post by: BMN on August 22, 2008, 05:26:00 PM

Great job on the bow and would you look at the size of that shop!   :eek:  

Bill

Title: Re: Take down build- along - COMPLETED
Post by: Shaun on August 22, 2008, 05:40:00 PM

Off the caul. It always amazes me the way osage responds to heat.

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/takedown038.jpg)

It looks like there may be a bow in this piece after all

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/takedown039.jpg)

Oh yeah, first brace 61" NTN 63# @ 20"

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/takedown041.jpg)

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/takedown042.jpg)

Title: Re: Take down build- along - COMPLETED
Post by: TNstickn on August 22, 2008, 06:31:00 PM

Shaun, Too cool!! Awesome shop, how do you keep it so clean? I can already see my lam bow building being interupted by a selfbow. Already built a shavin horse! Now to come up with some inexpensive staves to whittle on! Great build along, Thanks-Greg

Title: Re: Take down build- along - COMPLETED
Post by: Shaun on August 23, 2008, 12:35:00 AM

Finished this one this evening. Had a little trouble with that bottom limb tip and had to pike a bit off it. Final NTN 60" -- 54# @ 28"

Did a deer leather wrap with glue for the handle finish. Glued a piece of thick leather on first for an arrow rest.

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/takedown043.jpg)

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/takedown049.jpg)

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/takedown055.jpg)

Title: Re: Take down build- along - COMPLETED
Post by: Shaun on August 23, 2008, 12:41:00 AM

This bow would fit right in the quiver with your arrows.

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/takedown050.jpg)

It takes about 1.5" of set after shooting a while and come back to about .75" string follow after resting.

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/takedown044.jpg)

How do you make a self bow? Just take a stave and remove everything that is not bow...

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/takedown056.jpg)

Title: Re: Take down build- along - COMPLETED
Post by: DBerrard on August 23, 2008, 05:20:00 AM

Good stuff, thanks for sharing. Heck of a shop too eh

Title: Re: Take down build- along - COMPLETED
Post by: wislnwings on August 23, 2008, 08:13:00 AM

Thanks for sharing this Shaun.

Title: Re: Take down build- along - COMPLETED
Post by: Eric Krewson on August 23, 2008, 08:46:00 AM

Fine tillering job and great pictures of the process. I picked up a broken V. Minor Cane Dragon from a friend that is a take down. I plan to salvage the sleeves and make a take down bow for myself.

Title: Re: Take down build- along - COMPLETED
Post by: DCM on August 23, 2008, 09:03:00 AM

Fantastic build along Shaun.

Did you consider just gluing the bottom limb to the steel sleeve?

That's how the sleeves I used years ago worked, using just one brass sleeve.  

Gives you an extra brass sleeve, which I'd be trying to conjure a use for.  Would be tempted towards two upper limbs, but then I never could answer the question of... why.

One of the things I noticed about mine was it would swell and shrink w/ the humidity.  In fact after a couple of years it was getting loose so I shimmed it with JB Weld.  I may not have had the wood completely seasoned when I started, or this may be fairly common.  I have a sleeved takedown glass bow that has gotten loose over the years as well, but two shims of butcher paper will keep it tight enough for now.

Sleeved bows are simple and convenient, add just the right amount of weight in just the right place, but it does take a little to get used to the shape.  Easy enough to build one up and shape it, although I have grown to like mine just like they are.

Great project.  Inspiring.  Thanks for posting.

Title: Re: Take down build- along - COMPLETED
Post by: Shaun on August 23, 2008, 09:32:00 AM

David, I made the bottom limb the removable one. Seems like I saw one that way and figured that's how it was supposed to be done. Direct gluing the fixed limb did occur to me but I thought there might be some reason there were two brass inserts instead of one. Ideas for a second limb... How about a spear point for tracking wounded hogs, a black (top)limb for turkey tent blinds, a hiking staff with compass top hand grip (would require a tip protector on the other end), some kind of fancy limb for shoots or foolishness.

I wandered around the local mega lumber yard the other day to see if there was some obvious combination of pipes that would fit like these handles. I did find that a small brass drain pipe fits nicely into a 1.25" piece of copper pipe, but did not want to buy a $45 10ft piece of copper to experiment with and the brass drain pipe seemed very thin, not much to work with for file fitting. Does anyone have a combination they have found that works? These take down sets cost about $40 when you add shipping.

Title: Re: Take down build- along - COMPLETED
Post by: Widowbender on August 23, 2008, 10:52:00 AM

Nice Osage Takedown...Do you need my address for shipping?   :D    :D    :D    :knothead:

Title: Re: Take down build- along - COMPLETED
Post by: BMN on August 23, 2008, 06:00:00 PM

Great job Shaun! Thanks for showing us how its done. I'm going to have to give this a try.

Bill

Title: Re: Take down build- along - COMPLETED
Post by: Pat B on August 23, 2008, 10:35:00 PM

Shaun, Wingnut and Rusty did a build along for a take down handle using 1 1/4" rigid metal conduit. That stuff is easy to come by at an electrical contractor's waste bin. They recycle the odd&ends but would probably give you enough for a few handles.
   There is a build along over on PA using fiberglass cloth and epoxy resin(Ironic for PA)to make a take down sleeve that looks interesting. I still like the metal sleeve type. At least a bit more traditional.   Pat

Title: Re: Take down build- along - COMPLETED
Post by: 7eyes on August 23, 2008, 10:59:00 PM

Thank you Shaun for posting this. I was contemplating retroy fitting my robertson hinge brake down. I will post another thread when I decide. It will be tricky to keep the limbs aligned. I will have to have faith in my spirit guides. And will be asking you guys a lot of questions also.

 (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t311/7eyes_photo/robertsonconnection.jpg)

Title: Re: Take down build- along - COMPLETED
Post by: Dano on August 23, 2008, 11:03:00 PM

Being a retired electrician, I had thought about rigid conduit too, but that stuff has a wall thickness of 1/8", a little heavy, and it's galvanized which I wouldn't think would slide apart too well after long. There's a good reason they charge so much for the take down sleeves, THEY CAN  

Title: Re: Take down build- along - COMPLETED
Post by: Shaun on August 23, 2008, 11:13:00 PM

Troy, I bet you can do it. Just take your time and figure out how to keep it lined up properly. I would bet fitting the ends while the brass was in the pipe handle or an alignment jig. Take some pictures and let us know how it works out.

Title: Re: Take down build- along - COMPLETED
Post by: Pluck Yew on August 24, 2008, 11:32:00 AM

Shaun, Thanks for the post...I have two scraps of osage that will work fine for a take down...

Shawn...

Title: Re: Take down build- along - COMPLETED
Post by: Cody Cantrell on August 25, 2008, 09:22:00 AM

Great job Shaun, you made it look easy.  I have built a takedown with the fibergalss cloth and epoxy and it worked very well.  It is the same takedown system that Blackwidow uses.  Again, good job Shaun.