For all of you experienced Black Bear hunters out there, what is your recommended "minimum" poundage for hunting bruins? I will be shooting 500+ grain Woodies with either two blade Zwickey's or two blade Grizzlies. I am considering a Morrison recurve in the 45# @ 28" range and with my 27 1/2" draw (probably at least 28" when I draw on a bear). Would you consider this set[up as adequate or should I consider more poundage. Arrows will fly true and points will be shaving sharp.
Thanks. <><
Where will you be hunting? Be sure to check the regs. for where you will be hunting. Minimum poundage for Ontario is 48.5lbs at "draw" length. No doubt your setup would kill a bear, if everything goes perfect. I personally wouldn't want to be on the "minimum" end while bear hunting. An arrow in the heart or lungs of a bear is generally a short trail. I would however suggest 55# +
good luck,
Kevin B
We will be hunting out of Winnepeg, Manitoba. Can anyone provide minimum hunting weights for this Province?
I shoot 45-50# pending on which bow I use. I've had pass thrus on 5 bears with Magnus 2 blades, WW, and a very large stone head. We do hunt over bait so if you are patient, you can pick your shot. Yes you do need to check regs on weight. That said I know lots a guys who shoot heavy bows that never get close to full draw...Doc
So Tippit, you are saying (unless regulations prevent it) my 45# Morrison will be more than adequate with correct shot placement. I plan to wait for a broadside shot just behind the shoulder and mid-ship. Will this be adequate?
I just want to ensure a quick, humane kill...and not have a wounded bear and/or an unhappy outfitter.
Thanks for all of your input.
If you can shoot 45,you can shoot 55.Why use such a marginal bow and take a chance on creating a bad situation.
It's a fact that hunters sometimes don't get to full draw in a hunting situation. If you draw short 2" for some reason,then what will your poundage be.
40#? Shooting at targets and shooting at big game is entirely different,especially with bears involved.
While I'm at it,I have to say that this trend of shooting the most minimum poundage that's possible for hunting has me worried and actually upsets me when I read about it.
I wonder how many arrows don't pass through,how many shots aren't perfect.I'd like to hear about the ones that get away,wounded.I know that isn't going to happen.
How many hunters have the fortitude to pass up a 160" buck at 15 yards because the shot wasn't exactly perfect. I'd venture to say not ten out of a thousand.
Of course you can always say,"Well he wasn't hit bad enough to die,so it's ok."
Like I said,this trend really upsets me. I know why it's happening too.
It's because people want everything to be instant,and right now,because they don't want to invest the time and work it takes to get proficient with their weapon of choice.
I for one truly believe there's no place for a target bow in the woods,and that any able bodied man can learn to shoot a 55# bow.
I don't know why anyone would want to handicap their selves and be locked into a killing range of 15 yards for the rest of their hunting career.
Doug,I am not singling you out by any means,it's just that your inquiry made me want to put in words what I have been thinking about.
Hopefully this post might get some people to think a little more about what equipment is adequate and suitable to take a game animal with the respect and dignity it deserves.
That's all I've got to say about that. :campfire:
If you cant hit or shoot consisent at what ur aiming at with 55# but can put em in the kill ring with 45# , wouldnt that be best with scary sharp BH...????My friend blew through Elk with 47# at 17 steps...accracy has to count..
Archery has and always be a shooting sport.That means the goal should always be toward the best accuracy you can get.If that means useing a lighter bow that certainly is the route to take.There is really not a lot of difference in a 55lb bow and a 45lb bow when it comes to killing.It is just numbers that we talk about.It always comes back to tuning and shot placement or dumb luck. :)
You make a good point DB the trend does seem to be shoot it with the lowest # bow you can and then claim complete pass thru.
Of course your low # bow needs to be a high tech bow to get the penetration and if you need more # bow it just must not be a good bow.
My wife shot a nice bear with her DAS recurve set at 46# @ 26". She shot a Beman MFX arrow, 500 spine, 27" with 200 grains up front (four blade Phantom head) and got a pass thru and a 30 yard recovery.
i agree with james.... also, it has been my experience that if hit properly, a bear dies as fast or faster than any game animal i have ever killed...... i have only ever had one bear make it out of sight before collapsing and most do so within 40 yards.... the one that didn't within sight was a bear over 7ft that was hit quartering away..... the arrow hit the farthest back rib and came out of the neck/chest area hitting the jugular on the way out (as well as both lungs). it probably passed through 3ft of tissue before exiting the bear... there was a blood trail a blind man could follow and it is the only boone and crockett animal i have taken...... i killed it with a 50lb recurve.
on the flip side, it does seem that more and more people are going to lighter bows..... but so long as they are making consistent kills, who cares?
I don't think the question was about a 55# bow. I started with a 80# longbows 35 years ago. I can't shoot a 55# bow as well as a 45-50# bow anymore. I can pull that lighter bow back with out fooling myself by short drawing a 55# bow.
We've all seen guys at bow shoots who claim to be shooting heavy bows...but when you watch them they aren't getting it back, no consistent anchor, etc. If you can't shoot a 55# or higher bow, you are much better shooting a bow weight that you can be consistent with.
So the question as I see it is:
NOT what's the minimum weight I can get away with BUT what is the weight bow I can control. And if I can control that bow is it adequate to hunt with JMHO Doc
Hi Bill,
Here's a quote from himself: "If you can shoot 45, you can shoot 55.Why use such a marginal bow and take a chance on creating a bad situation."
Me tinks you answered your own point. (grin goes here) Everyone can't shoot 55# with proficiency. I think the old standard still applies; shoot as much weight as you can handle comfortably.
Then it's a simple matter of knowing your limitations and staying in them.
JC
Like I said,we won't hear about the many failed attempts,just these isolated examples of success.
How many of you say your effective killing range is 20 yards and under will pass up a great trophy with an open shot at 30 yards.
You all are just kidding your selves.
Bill congratulations to your wife on a job well done,and a perfectly executed shot under stressful conditions.
If only we all could be so perfect. :campfire:
You're entitled to your opinion Dirty Bill, but one has to wonder if your post is really the way you feel or if you posted because you thought it wouldn't "go over well with the powers to be at TG" which is what you posted on another site under the title "I might be banned." Sure sounds like you're just trying to make waves. Kind of juvenile isn't it?
Nothing at all wrong about having an opion on things and expressing it.That is what we all do.We just don't have the same ones at times is all. ;) You see the trend going to lighter weights than you think people should use.I see people getting smarter and realizing that shooting well is the key to being sucessfull.Some of them are simply seeing like a lot of the older guys alreadt knew that numbers were not the ones doing the killing.It is those guys pulling the string on bows they can shoot well. My 2 cents on it. :bigsmyl:
Dirty Bill, as unrealistic and flawed as I see them, yer certainly entitled to yer opinions on minimum trad bow hunting holding weights.
God knows I hope the anti/PETA whackos don't catch wind of yer drift and rally their troops, as there will go yet another freedom of choice and disallow us to use our good brains to hopefully make righteous decisions.
I trow to say that there are many ethics involved in any kinda hunting, and trad bow holding weight selection is just one of many critical criteria.
We should all hope to make valid decisions based on truths, and to know when we're ready to competently chase and kill game, whether with a 40# or 55# trad bow.
QuoteOriginally posted by Jim Casto Jr:
Hi Bill,
Here's a quote from himself: "If you can shoot 45, you can shoot 55.Why use such a marginal bow and take a chance on creating a bad situation."
Me tinks you answered your own point. (grin goes here) Everyone can't shoot 55# with proficiency. I think the old standard still applies; shoot as much weight as you can handle comfortably.
Then it's a simple matter of knowing your limitations and staying in them.
JC
Thank you Mr.Casto. But do they really stay in them? I wonder. :campfire:
QuoteOriginally posted by rabbitman:
You're entitled to your opinion Dirty Bill, but one has to wonder if your post is really the way you feel or if you posted because you thought it wouldn't "go over well with the powers to be at TG" which is what you posted on another site under the title "I might be banned." Sure sounds like you're just trying to make waves. Kind of juvenile isn't it?
Actually it's not the reason to make waves. I said what I said because I think those who want to shoot the lightest bow possible are taking a short cut to the art of bowhunting.
If you think it's juvenile,you certainly missed the point of the whole post.If I wanted to make waves,I would post something like you just did.
Why is there a need to post what was said on another forum?
QuoteOriginally posted by Rob DiStefano:
Dirty Bill, as unrealistic and flawed as I see them, yer certainly entitled to yer opinions on minimum trad bow hunting holding weights.
God knows I hope the anti/PETA whackos don't catch wind of yer drift and rally their troops, as there will go yet another freedom of choice and disallow us to use our good brains to hopefully make righteous decisions.
I trow to say that there are many ethics involved in any kinda hunting, and trad bow holding weight selection is just one of many critical criteria.
We should all hope to make valid decisions based on truths, and to know when we're ready to competently chase and kill game, whether with a 40# or 55# trad bow.
I would like to know which part of my opinion is unrealistic and flawed. Teach me something.I'm all ears.
Doug 45# from a Morrison is more than enough to kill a black bear so long as you do your part as with any bow. if you are hunting over bait where the shots are most likely all going to be within 15 yards you have nothing to worry about beyond making a good shot. Doc Tippit killed his last year with a self-bow that is no where near as efficient as your bow and I don't think he was pulling much more weight.
QuoteOriginally posted by Dirty Bill:
I would like to know which part of my opinion is unrealistic and flawed. Teach me something.I'm all ears.
I'm not going to pretend to speak for Rob, but I think one needs to look no further than your first sentence to find a part of your opinion which is unrealistic and flawed.
QuoteOriginally posted by Dirty Bill:
If you can shoot 45,you can shoot 55.
I know of several people who are quite capable of shooting 45# but cannot shoot 55#, especially not with the same accuracy.
By your reasoning, since I currently shoot 64#, I am capable of shooting 74#. However, my experience is quite the opposite. In fact, the Turkey Creek I am waiting on is 52#.
QuoteOriginally posted by Dirty Bill:
QuoteOriginally posted by Rob DiStefano:
Dirty Bill, as unrealistic and flawed as I see them, yer certainly entitled to yer opinions on minimum trad bow hunting holding weights.
I would like to know which part of my opinion is unrealistic and flawed. Teach me something.I'm all ears.
Accuracy at reasonable trad bow deer hunting ranges, and sharp broadheads, are more important than how much weight yer holding at full draw.
Trad bows of the same holding weights can be immensely disproportionate in deer hunting performance efficiency. For example, a simple same-arrow technical comparison between a 45# ACX and a 55# Hill would prove the ACX to be the faster and more efficient trad bow from a pure performance vantage point. (This is NOT at all saying which is the "better" bow - they both have important, viable hunting/shooting attributes).
Put yerself in the shoes of an intelligent person who loves to bow hunt deer (or would love to bow hunt deer) but can't accurately handle that 55# holding weight trad bow you recommend, er, demand.
Your rationale for everyone hunting with heavier bow holding weights is the same rhetoric I hear day in and day out from a society that wants to constantly protect me from myself and my own limited freedoms. No thank you, Sir.
Bill....Nobody said your post on this topic was juvenile. You are entitled to your opinion as stated. When you brag on another site that what you posted was not going to "go over well with the powers to be at TG" and then make a second post on the same topic at TG, then run to the other site and state "Well I poked them again"....now that's real childish behavior from a grown man. As far as this topic, weight for bear hunting bow, tippit nailed it earlier with Rob and fyrfyter backing him up.
Big black bears have big bones. Get into the kill zone and they are soft and won`t go far.
45lbs up close is adequate.(providing regulations allow)
As for me, I`m gonna shoot as heavy a bow as I can.
I have seen alot of posts on how little draw weight is needed to hunt big game. Why is this...
Draw weight IS important, and I don`t think it is above the average hunters ability to get into the low or mid fifties, IF they work at it.
I agree 45# IF well placed should kill a bear but so shouldn't 35#
If you hit him in the eye might be able to get away with alot less.
Seriously I wouldn't hunt with a bow I didn't have complete confidence in.
Minimum poundage for all big game is the heaviest bow you can shoot accurately. To think otherwise is immoral.
Your 45# will do just fine. A 60# bow would play hell getting through a shoulder hit. So regardless of the poundage your shooting, you need to place a sharp BH in the boiler room. Most Black bear don't have near the heart a whitetail does. We're not hunting cape buffalo people.
QuoteOriginally posted by rabbitman:
Bill....Nobody said your post on this topic was juvenile. You are entitled to your opinion as stated. When you brag on another site that what you posted was not going to "go over well with the powers to be at TG" and then make a second post on the same topic at TG, then run to the other site and state "Well I poked them again"....now that's real childish behavior from a grown man. As far as this topic, weight for bear hunting bow, tippit nailed it earlier with Rob and fyrfyter backing him up.
Let's see you said it was juvenile... what you take for bragging was a simple statement....I truly believed that my post would be immediately pulled,or if not,I would ultimately be banned.
If you read the last part of my first post, it says,that's all I have to say about that.
That was until I came back to read the new posts,and saw that I had been so bashed for voicing my opinion,that I was forced to reply in defense of my self.
Then when I was on the other site,I simply said I poked em again,which is simply a humorous way of telling them I had to reply to the post in the other forum even though I did not wish too.
One thing you need to think about,the written word is hard to express with out some people taking it out of context,and then forming an opinion of the person,when in fact,the opinion they formed could quite possibly be wrong.
Excuse me for not being politically correct.This smiley may help take the edge off my reply in defense of you accusations.----------> :D
Also in reply to some one elses comment about peta,(Rob,maybe?)and me demanding that people have to use 55# bows,is really off base.I simply said if a person can shoot 45,they can shoot 55,and do it accurately and efficiently.
I don't need to tell people what they have to shoot to be an effective hunter with a bow. The game commissions of every state that have a bowhunting only season has already done that.
They also tell you the exact size a broadhead has to be,and in many states,what it has to be made of.I'm really surprised they don't specify shaft material.
Now you all can call the dogs off,because this is truly all I have to say. :campfire:
Easy guys, everyone is entitled to an opinion, right? I appreciate Dirty Bills perspective. And he makes a couple of very valid points.
One of my Widows is 42#s at 28". It's an awesome bow and a lot of fun to shoot. And yes, it has killed a few deer over the years. But I also have Widows that pull 52#s and 60#s respectively that I shoot equally as well. Physically speaking, the heavier bows are not nearly as enjoyable to shoot as the 42-pounder, but after several weeks of dedicated effort and practice- i.e. training - I can shoot the heavier bows just as accurately. Not as comfortably. Not as enjoyably. But just as accurately. So here's the thing- if you'll allow me to be candid without ridiculing me, or Bill or anyone else for that matter. After reading posts like this, the temptation is to just say, "screw it!"- why bother shooting the heavier, less enjoyable, less comfortable bows if everyone and their uncle is killing ELK and MOOSE and ELEPHANTS with bows that many women can pull (my wife is 4'-11" and has shot a 40# Martin X-200 for fifteen years).
I think the concern Bill was expressing and I tend to agree- is that there seems to be this recent trend, this recent push, to encourage everyone to shoot unnecessarily light bows that they can shoot, really, really, really accurately, instead of a moderately heavier bow that they could also learn to shoot equally as well, if they made up their mind to do so and put the effort into it.
At 5'8" and 160#s, and being as average in stature as men come, I also find it difficult to believe that 95% of men can't learn to shoot a bow in the 50-60# range accurately.
Do not twist my words, or ignore the crux of the point I am trying to make, or attempt to paint me as being arrogant (I am not!). If 45#s is the heaviest bow you can shoot accurately, by all means, shoot the 45-pounder!!! But, do not settle for a 45-pounder IF a little training and effort would allow you to shoot a 55# bow just as accurately.
I believe this is the point Bill was trying to make. And it is a good one.
Lets just say shoot the heaviest bow ya can acuurately ok, if ya cant shoot 55 make dang sure ur BH is scary sharp...that all...period.. :) dead gum...I understand Bills point ...its all good...I got get some hot chocolate..its cool here.. :)
If you are only taking one shot, over bait inside 15 yards why not go with all you can handle. Seems to me that there are folks who swear their release is cleaner with heavier draw weight but just aren't consistent over the course of several flights in a session. How many shots do you think you will take after that first one? Most can handle the extra 10 pounds fore that one close shot. Bill, you aren't flawed, some just don't like to be told what to use. As Tippit said, he took one with a knapped head. Many might say "Why take a chance on a tough hide pushing a rock on a stick when you can use optimal equipment? Of course Barta wouldn't say that, right? Some folks want the challenge of using the minimum and taking only the absolute best shot or passing. That is using discretion and is respectful so that D2old's comment is somewhat presumptuous. I prefer the confidence of a heavy, well tuned arrow to create lots of KE, best possible flight and hopefully pass through. Like big hogs, that fat layer on a late season bear can close up a hole and leave little blood trail as I found to be the case.
Labs4me that was one of the best post I have read on the matter of bow weight.
Well, Dirty Bill, you've incited enuf with your posting and yer getting exactly what you've wished for and have been asking in this thread, and others.
I don't mind healthy debate, but you've taken your story well beyond that.
Good bye and good luck.