Trad Gang

Main Boards => Hunting Knives and Crafters => Topic started by: Lin Rhea on May 02, 2012, 08:29:00 AM

Title: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: Lin Rhea on May 02, 2012, 08:29:00 AM
I realize this type of knife could be construed in as entirely a weapon, but I know of some who use a dagger for boar hunting. This one probably wont, in all honesty but could be. The point for my showing it is that the design and construction would be similar for one that you might carry along with your other traditional equipment. I have not showed this here because the difficulty level, for me at least, was such that I did not want to show it till I was finished and sure it survived all of my screw ups. I got it done and should have some pro photos soon. But for now, here are some snap shots of the progress.

The blade is just shy of 8 inches. I failed to get a photo of it forged to shape. I hate that because I truely shaped it by hammer on the anvil instead of grinding it stock removal. Here it is rough ground.
    (http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7204/6980268777_aeeec6bdf7_z.jpg)
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: Lin Rhea on May 02, 2012, 08:33:00 AM
I saw the possibilities for it so I did some drawing.
    (http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7198/6912634322_4e48042fd6_c.jpg)

The handle is drawn around the rough ground tang. It would be up to me to add the tang screw section and line it up to match the drawing.
   (http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5036/6912594912_f563dfdc37_c.jpg)
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: srtben on May 02, 2012, 09:11:00 AM
Very nice Lin, I like where this on is going!
A dagger is next on my "to make" list, thanks for the pics.
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: SveinD on May 02, 2012, 10:32:00 AM
This one will be great! Can't wait!    :jumper:
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: Lin Rhea on May 02, 2012, 11:10:00 AM
The first stage that is dangerous is the heat treat. It made it through safely. I took some precautions to insure that it most likely would not warp or crack, such as to clay the center ridge and ricasso before I full quenched it. Here is the blade just after the thermo cycle, but before I clayed and quenched it. The oxidation shows the pattern of the damascus.
  (http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5335/6908814504_e2c2a9f3a2_z.jpg)

This about midway of the hand sanding. It has already been heat treated completely at this point.
  (http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7095/6890957928_7fe58de278_z.jpg)
  (http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6107/6890957844_bc48f07e50_z.jpg)
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: Lin Rhea on May 02, 2012, 11:13:00 AM
This gives an idea of the pattern in the blade.
  (http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7117/7054905853_cc7592e0b7_c.jpg)
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: jonathan creason on May 02, 2012, 11:31:00 AM
Whoa........... that's gonna be a beauty.
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: Doug Campbell on May 02, 2012, 11:39:00 AM
Is that "w"ed then twisted Lin? I like it!
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: Lin Rhea on May 02, 2012, 11:44:00 AM
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7255/7054905687_4ae245603d_c.jpg)

I have the materials laid out to give you an idea of the form it is in when I start. The blade is there along with the pre ban elephant scales, the 14K gold, and the guard, which is damascus but not etched.

  (http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7218/7105526737_5cfe9447cb_c.jpg)
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: Lin Rhea on May 02, 2012, 11:46:00 AM
Yes Doug. It's no more trouble this way as the plain twist and I have more options with the billet.
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: wissler on May 02, 2012, 12:00:00 PM
Lin,
Did you use Ferric Chloride to etch the blade after hand sanding? What temp is the etch?
How fine of grit do you go before etch? 600?

Thanks,
By the way, it looks SWEET so far!
Can't wait to see the final product
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: Lin Rhea on May 02, 2012, 12:09:00 PM
Wissler, 600-1000 depends. The ferric is room temperature.
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: Lin Rhea on May 02, 2012, 12:20:00 PM
Here I'm just holding the guard and oval onto the blade and not real tight at that. The gap between the ricasso and gold is not there now, trust me.

  (http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5117/6966647310_eb94e51791_c.jpg)

This shot shows the tang extension and the hard solder joint. I split the tang and inserted the machine screw after grinding it to fit. I used high temp silver solder.
  (http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8021/7105586963_66cda90bb2_c.jpg)
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: kbaknife on May 02, 2012, 01:02:00 PM
Lin, what's the oval made of?
And, is that twisted Ws?
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: 2treks on May 02, 2012, 01:28:00 PM
Gold, Ivory and Damascus! Does it get much better?
This would look at home on my belt when sporting my English Longbow.
Real nice Lin. Can't wait to see the finished knife
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: Lin Rhea on May 02, 2012, 01:48:00 PM
Karl, it's 14K gold and yes, it's twisted W's. Kind of has a look, dont it?

Here are the scales after I got a good start on carving them. There's still some crud here and there.
   (http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7109/6989819064_c3afca99db_z.jpg)

Here are the scales assemble with the damascus liners/frame. Just loosely pinned. The lighting sure makes things look different. The ivory is light butter colored to the eye.
  (http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8010/6989819230_3fbfdaccb0_z.jpg)
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: Rusty Snuffers on May 02, 2012, 02:33:00 PM
(http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll101/rpmahony/drool.gif)

Just sayin'...

Rusty
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: Arrowest on May 02, 2012, 02:49:00 PM
Absolutely stunning. I just can't get over the skill and craftsmanship you display Lin.  Well done.   :bigsmyl:
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: JohnHV on May 02, 2012, 02:58:00 PM
This is gonna be a true master piece!
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: Lin Rhea on May 02, 2012, 03:58:00 PM
Here it is with the handle pins in and slid on the tang. I also have the ferrule and pommel made and etched. The finial ball will be next.

  (http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8142/6989820040_8d6d2d786b_c.jpg)

Here is the ball un etched and on the handle. This picture shows some of the grain in the elephant ivory.
  (http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7254/6990517140_838917603a_c.jpg)
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: Pete Crowl on May 02, 2012, 07:26:00 PM
That's just beautiful.  Great damascus pattern!
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: DANA HOLMAN on May 02, 2012, 09:24:00 PM
Lin, thats one fine peice of work,
Dana
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: Todd Robbins on May 02, 2012, 09:27:00 PM
That's looking great! I can't wait to see the finished product!
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: amar911 on May 03, 2012, 01:36:00 AM
LOVE that gorgeous pig hunting knife, Lin.

Allan
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: Craig B on May 03, 2012, 09:12:00 AM
WOW........
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: gables on May 03, 2012, 12:00:00 PM
Thanks for sharing your work. That is beautiful. How did you carve the grooves in the handle? What was your sequence for doing the guard? Slot, shape, then bend? Also, how did you rework the slight gap of the gold oval to the shoulders as you pointed out in an earlier photo?
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: Lin Rhea on May 03, 2012, 12:18:00 PM
Good questions.

As for the guard, I had it laid out flat but profiled roughly. I then put a center line from point to point and milled and filed the slot, using the enter line as a reference, a little undersized so I could settle it into place with needle files after the points were curved around forward by heating and tapping. I got the slot fitting good and snug and drifted the points to line up with the cutting edges.

The grooves in the ivory. I took a piece of 15N20 band saw material and ground the general shape of the topography into it. I sharpened the edge as best I could then used it to scrape out the groove. The groove follows the outside profile so I used the outside edge of the ivory as a guide. This, of course, meant that it had to be sized already. For the guide fence to ride against the ivory, I rounded it a little and buffed it smooth so it would just slide and not scratch. A little sanding took away any burnishing that it left.

Here's a picture of the tool as I was just testing it. The ivory was too thick at this point so I was getting a feel of how it cut. Also, I knew that I wanted to remove the rough edges of the pin holes, so I was going to remove some of the surface anyway.
    (http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7053/7138777477_33114879a2_c.jpg)

The slot in the gold was fitting. I just failed to hold it up tight with my fingers. I just had the guard and the gold slid on loosely. Try to concentrate on too many things at once.
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: akaboomer on May 03, 2012, 01:34:00 PM
Outstanding!!! I consider a dagger to be traditional. Just as the English Longbow was used as a weapon, still traditional. The idea behind the Dagger is old but your spin on it is timeless!!

Chris
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: oldpaths on May 03, 2012, 06:17:00 PM
You are da man Lin!!!!
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: Lin Rhea on May 03, 2012, 08:45:00 PM
Thanks guys.
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: Steve Nuckels on May 03, 2012, 08:45:00 PM
Lin, I was glad you mentioned you forged the dagger to shape.  I remember about a year ago on another forum, a controversey concerning forging/stock removing damascus daggers for MS judging.  

At my level of experience I find the thought of forging a dagger daunting, much less grinding the bevels.  I was wondering if claying was a viable technique before you described it.

Did you let the clay dry completly over the course of hours or days, or apply it and dry it at the mouth of the forge in conjunction with normalizing then quench right away?

Beautiful dagger and I love the drawings!

Steve
-------
Potomac Forge
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: Lin Rhea on May 04, 2012, 08:38:00 AM
Steve,
       I dont push hard on the controversy about forging to shape. What ever a person wants to set as his limits is ok as long as he is clear about it. I like to forge as close as I can, but that's me. Some patterns wont allow that so that would be ok since it shows a mastery over the situation.

       I thermocycle the blade and clean the oxides off, for the most part, and clay it, then stick it in the oven for a half hour at 300 or so to dry it. Then I come up to heat as evenly as I possibly can and quench. I will get my forge hot first so as to have an atmosphere that will radiate heat then heat from the tang end till it starts getting some color, than turn the blade around and even things out.
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: Izzy on May 04, 2012, 08:20:00 PM
Just aint no ceiling for your talent.   :notworthy:    :notworthy:
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: Margly on May 12, 2012, 06:17:00 AM
:clapper:
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: Lin Rhea on May 14, 2012, 04:13:00 PM
Thank you for your comments.

Here is the completed knife in one of Chuck Ward's photos.
    (http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7213/7199294314_ab7abe639c_c.jpg)
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: 2treks on May 14, 2012, 04:50:00 PM
Very Nice Lin.
CTT
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: Margly on May 14, 2012, 06:14:00 PM
WOW that was really nice    :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: Doug Campbell on May 14, 2012, 09:45:00 PM
There was no doubt in my mind it would turn out incredible. I must have missed it, is that gold inlay Lin?
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: Crotalus on May 15, 2012, 12:34:00 AM
Looks great Lin.
Love the ivory, nothing can match the feel of ivory.
Take care bud,
LP
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: akaboomer on May 15, 2012, 12:59:00 AM
Chuck's images do show this off very nicely.  I love the way the gold highlights the undertones in the ivory.

Chris
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: jonathan creason on May 15, 2012, 08:05:00 AM
Wow!
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: joekeith on May 15, 2012, 07:44:00 PM
:notworthy:    :notworthy:    :notworthy:
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: amar911 on May 15, 2012, 09:55:00 PM
Lin,

That is a true show piece! Beautiful -- stunningly so!!!

Allan
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: srtben on May 15, 2012, 09:58:00 PM
That came out great Lin, top notch as always!
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: Rusty Snuffers on May 17, 2012, 09:47:00 AM
:thumbsup:    :thumbsup:  

WAY up!
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: Arrowest on May 17, 2012, 01:07:00 PM
Absolutely stunning Lin. You deserve all the accolades you get on this one.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: kansas stik man on May 17, 2012, 06:37:00 PM
awesome job lin
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: Ragnarok Forge on May 21, 2012, 01:53:00 AM
Amazing work!
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: 4est trekker on May 21, 2012, 10:55:00 AM
What more to say?...Your beginning drawings might be almost as beautiful as your finished piece.  Man, to watch you work for an hour or two.  Thanks for sharing your talent.

Now if you'll excuse me, I must clean the drool off of my keyboard.    :D
Title: Re: Dagger (pro photo added pg 3)
Post by: Ray Hammond on May 27, 2012, 09:31:00 PM
Makes me wish I was a musketeer!!!!!

I think the skill set involved in building such a knife and your willingness to share that will translate well into all types of knife making!

Really great knife Lin