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Main Boards => Hunting Knives and Crafters => Topic started by: wisconsinteacher on February 03, 2010, 04:47:00 PM

Title: muriatic acid
Post by: wisconsinteacher on February 03, 2010, 04:47:00 PM
Where can I find muriatic acid and how much is it?  Can I use it on my curly maple that is attatched to the knife?
Title: Re: muriatic acid
Post by: Scott Roush on February 03, 2010, 05:05:00 PM
I bought mine at a local hardware store.  Very cheap. I'm not sure how concentrated the stuff that Clay uses... but the stuff I bought seems pretty weak. It took over a day to dissolve the steel wool. By the way... I heard that you have to degrease the steel wool first. I soaked mine in acetone, squeezed it out and let it dry.   Anyway.... I was only able to get a very weak showing of character doing this. And I'm sure I'm doing something wrong.  But I sanded away and I used my Fiebings medium brown leather dye (alcohol based). I made three different dilutions using rubbing alcohol and applied each, weakest first and sanding between each application. It's coming out very nice.  I will post some pics in a few days. This knife is finally DUN.
Title: Re: muriatic acid
Post by: mater on February 03, 2010, 07:16:00 PM
They use it to wash bricks after they lay them,so I would think masonary stores or lumber yards.
Title: Re: muriatic acid
Post by: James Oertel on February 03, 2010, 07:42:00 PM
it,s used too clean swimming pools and masonary products .   you can get at a pool supply store
Title: Re: muriatic acid
Post by: Scott Roush on February 03, 2010, 08:06:00 PM
and yeah... you can use it on the wood attached to your knife. It might give it a patina (thats what I buy the stuff for.. an antiqued patina)... but you can buff it out if you get some on your blade.
Title: Re: muriatic acid
Post by: Ragnarok Forge on February 03, 2010, 11:47:00 PM
I use a fairly concentrated Muriatic Acid diluted to three to one with water.  I dissolve steel wool in the acid / water over a couple of days until it won't dissolve any more steel.  This is a very important step to getting the coloring you want.

The key to the depth and chatoyance you want is to use two good coats on the wood.  The acid actually burns the wood and imparts the color ( yellow ) into the grain.  Once you have coated the wood twice, wash with baking soda in water to deactivate the acid.  Wash clean with regular water and then let dry.  Once dry, heat the wood until it is almost black.  Then finish as noted in prior post.  The real key here is that the color is now part of the wood grain.  It won't leach out or sand thru like stain.

Always wear gloves and eye protection and alway add acid to water, not water to acid. This method is worth the effort it takes to get the results you want.
Title: Re: muriatic acid
Post by: Scott Roush on February 04, 2010, 07:45:00 AM
Yeah... I guess I didn't let enough of the steel wool to dissolve.  When I put it in there I expected steam, bubbling and fumes.  None of that happened so I got impatient.   I'm gonna try this again next time.  But I gotta tell ya... that leather dye worked wonders on my curly maple.
Title: Re: muriatic acid
Post by: imskippy on February 04, 2010, 02:56:00 PM
I'd be interested in seeing what exactly it is your accomplishing with this process. It certainly sounds interesting. Skippy
Title: Re: muriatic acid
Post by: Scott Roush on February 04, 2010, 02:58:00 PM
If you look up some curly maple muzzleloader stocks... you will see basically what the effect is.
Title: Re: muriatic acid
Post by: Ragnarok Forge on February 05, 2010, 12:02:00 AM
Mossanimal is correct. This is the preferred method for high end muzzloader builders.  The effect on the wood is amazing.
Title: Re: muriatic acid
Post by: Maxximusgrind on February 05, 2010, 02:19:00 AM
They call it aquafortis,it is considered one of the oldest wood stains for guns and there were variations to change the color.
   Robert
Title: Re: muriatic acid
Post by: Maxximusgrind on February 05, 2010, 02:23:00 AM
also if you dont want to mess with doing the dissolving-you can buy it ready to go through a blackpowder supplier.
  Robert
Title: Re: muriatic acid
Post by: PM_Mining on February 05, 2010, 03:38:00 PM
I always thought that the gun stock stain being discussed was made with Nitric acid, not muriatic.  In fact, the obsolite name for Nitric Acid is aquafortis.  

Actually, this is the first time I have ever heard of anyone using muriatic for stain.  I will have to try this out now and see what it does differently than the Nitric.
Title: Re: muriatic acid
Post by: Scott Roush on February 05, 2010, 04:10:00 PM
Nitric is the stuff in Aquafortis. I believe that nitric has the same effect without having some kind of metal dissolved in it. But once you see the yellowing of the solution once the steel wool dissolves... you will see how it can work. The nice thing about muriatic is that you can buy it at a hardware store.  Not sure where to get nitric unless you just buy the aquafortis stain.
Title: Re: muriatic acid
Post by: kbaknife on February 05, 2010, 04:30:00 PM
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/pdfs/aquafortis.pdf
Title: Re: muriatic acid
Post by: Maxximusgrind on February 05, 2010, 05:53:00 PM
My appolagies.
I dug out my aquafortis and checked and its nitric acid.so muratic may work the same,or not?Sorry for chiming in without having my facts straight.I would deffinately be interested to hear if its different than aquafortis,or even if it works as well at getting the same results.
 Also does anyone know how the two acids compare for strength?
Title: Re: muriatic acid
Post by: PM_Mining on February 05, 2010, 06:25:00 PM
For strength, generally, they do not compare.  Generally, the muriatic you by at the hardware store is ~32% and Nitric is generally ~68%.  However, each can be diluted with water to make weaker solutions.

Both react differently with respect to organic material, which is why the mention of muriatic as a stain carrier caught me unaware.  As well, the reaction to iron is different for each acid.  

Both these acids,  as well as sulphuric, were well known at the time that Nitric was used to stain maple gun stocks.  The fact that Nitric was the acid of choice leaves me believing it is the better choice.  Sulphuric was sometimes added to the nitric to darken the wood with less heat.
Title: Re: muriatic acid
Post by: Scott Roush on February 05, 2010, 06:42:00 PM
well now that my steel wool dissolved, I sanded off most of the Fiebings which left nice dark bands... but light colored highlights. I'm now hitting it with the muriatic and it starting to really look spectacular now.  I will try to post this knife tomorrow.
Title: Re: muriatic acid
Post by: EASTERNARCHER on February 05, 2010, 07:51:00 PM
How do you make this acid stain?
I wonder how it would work on staining belly and riser woods on a bow????Osage and Ipe
Title: Re: muriatic acid
Post by: Scott Roush on February 05, 2010, 08:39:00 PM
http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=110;t=002155

Clay posted his method in that thread. I'm running with it...
Title: Re: muriatic acid
Post by: PM_Mining on February 06, 2010, 12:17:00 AM
I am glad you are going forward with this, and am looking forward to seeing the result.  No doubt it will work, as it seems to have been done with good result.

My thinking is that in a direct comparison the muriatic will tend to bleach the wood and create a lighter result than the nitric.  I say this due to the fact that muriatic is chlorine based.  The saturation with iron being the main effect in the darkening of the wood.  

I am also curious as to the comparison of the cellular structure of the wood after treatment by the two methods.  I would think that there would be more cellular breakdown with the muriatic, resulting in a "softening" of the structure.

Please do post pictures and observations as things progress.
Title: Re: muriatic acid
Post by: Scott Roush on February 06, 2010, 07:01:00 AM
I'm gonna post this knife in a different thread later this morning. Yes... lighter results between the darker bands. It's pretty awesome....