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Main Boards => Hunting Knives and Crafters => Topic started by: Lin Rhea on April 10, 2009, 07:25:00 AM
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Guys, I have been using Devcon 2/hr-2/ton on my knives, but it's getting hard to find more and more. I wonder why? Do you guys know a reliable source? I also have to keep in mind the possibility of finding a good replacement for it. Thanks, Lin
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Hey Lin local ---marts have went to loctite too!
Try jantz. C-Ya Bob
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I use the single use two part epoxy from dollar general . It is made by superglue and is just about the right amount for the job. Drew
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West System, Lin.
Comes in quarts, gallons, etc. You buy the resin and then it has both fast and slow hardeners.
Each can has its own pump and you just give a full pump of what ever you want - fast or slow - for the appropriate mix.
These are my thoughts:
West System Epoxy is a marine epoxy. It's designed for LIFETIME use in a marine environment of alwyas being wet, in salt water, using cleaning agents on boats, exposed to UV, gasoline, extremem hot and cold temps, etc.
And is still supposed to hold boats together upon which people's lives may depend.
The first time up, you need to buy not only the resin and the hardener, but the pumps. But you only need to buy the pumps one time.
Here at my Walmart I see they wuit selling Devcon and now sell something else.
I have also heard - somewhere - what the store bought 2-tube epoxies have a usefull time limit. After extended exposure to UV or water, they break down.
Keeps you buying more.
West System can't risk to breaking down when lives may be in the balance.
I have a friend who build custom cabinetry and is known for his custom wet-bars.
When he installs a new wet-bar in a basement environment, he actually drills over-sized mounting holes in the floor, fills them with West System epoxy, drill and TAPS the epoxy and bolts his bars to that!
The stuff is unreal.
There are a lot of on-line places to buy it, but if you live anywhere there is boat construction or near a marina, or maybe even hobby canoe builders and such, you may have it available in your own back yard.
I get it about 30 minutes from where I live at a custom cabinetry building supply.
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/search.do?refineType=1&refineName=Brand&refineValue=WEST%20System&refine=1&page=GRID&history=xq4b7mop|other|freeText~west%2Bsystem%2 Bepoxy^page~GRID&engine=adwords!6456&keyword=west_system_epoxy (http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/search.do?refineType=1&refineName=Brand&refineValue=WEST%20System&refine=1&page=GRID&history=xq4b7mop|other|freeText~west%2Bsystem%2Bepoxy^page~GRID&engine=adwords!6456&keyword=west_system_epoxy)
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I'm a big fan of J-B Weld (http://jbweld.net/products/index.php) it's tough stuff, the only drawback is it's gray and not clear, but when I checked there web site they also carry a marine product which I have not tried.
Gene
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I just saw Devcon at Lowes the other day, but it was the 5 minute version. I have never found it anywhere but wal-mart in the past.
I second the dollar General stuff. Just the right amount and it sets up HARD like Devcon, and not "hard gummy" like loctite.
Tommy
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Its getting more and more difficult to find ANY epoxies here. I also question this...
Good luck on your search
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Lin
I use the same glue and love it also!
I have been able to get it through "True Value" hardware stores in So. Utah and Nevada.
It does seem to be getting harder to get in the larger hardware stores...so when I find it, I buy most, if not all the tubes I can get my greedy little hands on!
Good luck!
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Lin, I noticed the same thing you mention. And don't like the Loc Tite either.
I just ordered some from Pop's, they say "good enough to put our name on it". Well, I just received it, a 9 oz combined package consisting of 2 bottles for 11 bucks. Way cheaper than Devcon.
There are 3 varieties: 5 minute, 15 minute, and 30 minute set.
Dan
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I just got back from Home Depot and they only have Loctite. I'm under the impression that medium to slow setting epoxies are tougher. That may or may not be true, but I read it somewhere. I do know that I had to bust a handle off of a knife once that I use 5 minute Devcon on and it just did'nt withsatnd much abuse to get the handle off. I thought it should have been tougher. Of course I was using a 2 lb hammer on it while holding on an anvil. :)
I'm probably going to go with Karl's West System epoxy. It looks like what I want. Lin
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I'll second the marine epoxy but I've been using a brand call Rakka, (if I remember right) that sounds just like the West Systems stuff Karl has. Instead of the pumps I just use 6CC syringes like I'd give a horse or cow a shot with. I painted the top of one orange for the hardner and the other black for the resin. It's been working out very well for me.
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Of course, I forgot to mention, that Smooth On is about as tough as I have ever seen epoxy get. (Get it from 3 Rivers and Bingham Projects)
Used to make bows, it gets hard enough that when you break it it can cut you. But obviously, can take flexing that a bow had. It is very slow, 24 hr cure by itself and 4 hrs in an oven.
JB weld is a great epoxy, but the grey...yuck.
Dan
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I'am with Dan Smooth-On thats the only brand of epoxy I buy anymore.Works great for everything.As he mentioned app'ed in thin layers is flexable enough for laminated bows.If baked will become almost rock hard.Sandable and paintable great stuff...bd
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Can you use smooth-on for the scales of a full tang handle? Will it adhere to the metal?
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One thing to remember through all of this is that "epoxy" or other types of adhesives used in knife making are NOT to be depended upon to hold the knife togther.
They just won't.
That's what your pins and bolts are for.
But, I'll admit that we DO want them to hold as much as possible.
In the end, the adhesives we use are more to be depended upon for their sealing abilities. They need to fill all of the voids to keep the environment OUT.
I state the above to empahsize the point that the department store "in the tubes" 2 part epoxies are designed with the hobbiest and homeowner in mind who is in search of a quick fix.
Not only the West Systwm that I mentioned, but the others mentioned by Doug Campbell and Dan Masson are PROFESSIONAL epoxies that are designed to be used with dissimilar materials and designed to resist all types of temperature extremes, solvents, UV exposure, etc.
If you want the best - buy the best.
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Smooth on is recommended for use with the Bow Bolt TD system which is a wood to metal joint. Surface preparation is the most important step but then I'm preaching to the choir here. Chad
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I am with Karl, being a commecial fisherman, I use west system often and use it in my knives, and love it. Try some and follow the directions to the letter! Good Luck.
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Doug,
I use RAKKA also and love it. Great marine epoxy and the one handle I tried to remove ended up being a complete grind off...could not get the glue to let go.
I get mine from a place in Florida.
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I tried the 5 minute epoxy from Pop's, it is comparable to Devcon and is a lot cheaper.
As mentioned before I think by Karl, it is there to keep blood and water out and hold together while assembling handle. The pins provide the majority of the strength and holding power after completion.
Dan
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i always use nhp slow set epoxy.
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YOU FOLKS MIGHT WANT TO TRY THE EPOXIES FROM THE PROTECTIVE COATINGS CO. IN ALLENTOWN, PA. THEY DEVELOPED MANY OF THE SPECIALTY EPOXIES USED TODAY. VERY GOOD TECH SERVICE DEPT. 800-220-2103. I HAVE SOLD AND USED THEIR PRODUCTS FOR YEARS.
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Thanks Graybeard. I'll take a look at that. Lin
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Keep in mind that even the West and System 3 epoxies have a shelf life. I had some left over from building a kayak and decided to use some after it had sat in my unheated/uncooled garage for a couple years. I mixed it very carefully but it just wouldn't set up right. I think with any adhesive it's not a good idea to buy more than you think you'll use in a year.
My favorite adhesive for knife scales or close-fitting parts is Loctite 324 and the 7075 spray activator but it too has a limited shelf life and it's expensive.
I use the Devcon 2-ton for hidden tangs and always have good luck with it. I read some big test of various epoxies on another forum and Brownell's Acraglas seemed to do the best in their various tests. My local hardware carries the Devcon though so I keep picking that up when I need some.
Here's a link to the big adhesive test but you have to be a member of that forum to read it. It's 19 pages in all and the summary of opinions/findings is on page 16. They really had good results from Gorilla and Sumo glue for general purpose stuff too.
Devcon epoxies got an F
West epoxy got a D
Acraglas got an A
Golf Shafting epoxy from Golfsmith got an A and it's cheaper than Acraglas.
http://www.knifenetwork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27463&page=16&highlight=epoxy+test