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Main Boards => Hunting Knives and Crafters => Topic started by: kbaknife on January 30, 2009, 10:00:00 AM
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Folks, can we start a forge thread?
It would not only be a little fun, but might, as well, be informative and inspirational to others to see how some guys make their forges.
I will take some photos later today and post what I have.
I forged in coal for a few years until the romance wore off. And, finally, the coal dust did, too.
I saw a few Master Smiths at a seminar in New York forging on a small, up-right, vertical forge that was literally made from scrap, except for a few standard pipe fittings and a blower.
It was at that moment that I felt rather stupid for having forged in coal for so long, as well as having considered giving someone else my hard-earned money.
If you have a welder and a torch, or a friend that does, you can build your own forge on your day off and be able to bang on steel in no time!
If anyone else has some photos they'd like to share, please step up to the plate and post them here.
I'll be back - later.
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Anxiously awaiting. Thanks for getting this rolling Karl. SKippy
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i am watching this one. :bigsmyl:
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I built this one from some fire brick the boss at work let me have and boiller board . I just made the steel box around it and venture burner . I have changed to a gate valve for gas and added the washer for the air . (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/drewsbow/knives/100_2297.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/drewsbow/knives/100_2298.jpg)
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AWESOME!!! :clapper:
Thanks for participating!
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This will be fun and informative! Thanks!
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OK. Here's my basic set-up. The advantages of a vertical forge are limitless.
The ease of construction and the readily available materials are only the beginning of benefits.
You can see the two in the photo. One is a 12 inch and one is an 8 inch.
The 8 inch was a cut-off from a company that does underground gas lines.
The 12 inch is a section from a grain elevator auger body.
There's a lot to talk about here, and I'm in the middle of glue drying and stitching, etc., so check back as I add to this thread.
A couple things to note here:
1.) That propane tank on the floor is NOT the tank I use.
Tanks that size are simply not large enough. They can't evaporate the propane fast enough with that volume of tank and they freeze up. That tank is for hot bluing. You can see, hanging from the ceiling just to the right of the power hammer, a black pipe and a regulator. That leads to a 100 pound tank on the other side of the shop.
What this allows to happen is that rather than just try to regulate your flame in the forge with a regulator at the tank, this way I run about 5 pounds of pressure from the pipe and then reduce it at the forge with a needle valve. This makes consistant pressure at the forge possible.
As temperature changes and volume of gas in the tank changes, etc, with only a regulator, you are CONSTANTLY "chasing" the flame around. Run the pressure HIGH from the source, and then tweak it at the forge with a 10 dollar needle valve.
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c247/kbaknife/DSCF0001-1-1.jpg)
Here are a few pictures of the 12 inch forge:
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c247/kbaknife/DSCF0009-1.jpg)
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c247/kbaknife/DSCF0007-1-1.jpg)
And one of the 8 inch:
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c247/kbaknife/DSCF0003-1-2.jpg)
Now, here are the valves which are made from simple black pipe and fittings from the plumber supply place:
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c247/kbaknife/DSCF0005-1.jpg)
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c247/kbaknife/DSCF0006-1.jpg)
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c247/kbaknife/DSCF0007-1-1.jpg)
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c247/kbaknife/DSCF0004-1-1.jpg)
Gotta go do some glue!
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There are two doors on each forge - one in front and then one 180 degrees to the rear. Most guys just leave these open so their material can pass through. But, I kind of figure that when you do that, the material looses its heat. So, I created a tube to basically extend the interior body of the forge! This way, the steel stays hot as you pass it through the forge body.
Both forges are lines with 1 inch thick Inswool. This is an insulating refractory blanket. Then, this is coated with a refractory cement - Satanite.
This reduces the interior dimension by 2 inches in diameter, making the 8 inch forge only six inches!
But, 6 inches is more steel than you can beat on before it cools down.
So, why have a forge that sometimes as much as 20 inches or more long when you can't even work that much steel?
I use the 12 inch to heat treat bowies or to heat up my bars of steel to work on the power hammer.
But for most guys who forge only bar stock, the 8 inch pipe will be more than sufficient.
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Also, those forges are small enough that a person can move them wherever - whenever.
If you wanted to forge outside, or take the whole set-up to a hammer-in or out to the park - it's easy!
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My setup is very near what yours is Karl. The only real difference is that mine is horizontal. The rest is the same, right down to the needle valve.
One thing that I would suggest is to place the gas source shutoff valve on one side of the forge opening and the needle valve on the other side. That way, if the electricity fails, even briefly, you wont have to cross in front of the opening while it barks flames. There is a shutoff on both sides.
All of my mechanical parts and rubber hose are under a steel table with a fexible exhaust tube (such as used on car exhausts) leading the gas/air mix up and over the end of the table to the chamber. Lin
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I think I see what you mean, Lin. But I have a shut off right there on the valve as well, just ahead of the needly valve. And at the regulator and one above the tank.
Maybe I'm not entirely with you on that.
But I do know that anything you suggest is always worthy of figuring out.
Can you clarify?
I'm brain dead tonight.
Wore out.
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Take a picture!
Show us, please.
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Karl,
It's just a safety suggestion. To configure the tank/source valve to one side of the forge opening and the needle valve on the other so if the electricty fails, you can turn off the gas no matter which way you duck and run.
My anvil is directly in line with the forge opening so I cant get away from the opening without going to one side or the other. I would not want to cross the path of the opening while it is shooting bursts of flame. This way, I can have a way to shut the gas off either way I go or which ever side I happen to be standing on. This is not something you have to do, but I have had the electricity blink several times while forging and the forge does funny things when that happens. :eek: Lin
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I'll try to get a pic tomorrow. Lin :)
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Gotcha!
ON those two forges I have one valve on one side, and the other valve on the opposite side of the other forge so they are away from each other and each is off the end of the table.
I'm always looking for ways to imporve things, and your idea is worth filing away for use later down the road when I "adjust" things.
Thanks for pointing it out.
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good looking work boys. does it count if i think i perfected the firebrick forge??? :D
i will put money on it that i can get an entire sword demagnetized with it in less than five minutes :scared:
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Now some of you other guys get your forges posted up here!!!
Explain how you did them and why, so we can learn.
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Here is my first firebrick forge. One of the bricks was broken off about an inch and half on one end so I did a test forge with that one.
Here it is with a blank I'm trying to anneal because I got it too hot playing with it and it air hardened and cost me a couple drill bits.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v201/madness522/knives/tn_DSCF0509.jpg)
Here it is heated up about 2 minutes before I stuck in the blank I want to get annealed.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v201/madness522/knives/tn_DSCF0515.jpg)
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Heres mine just like Karl's I think .Went to Don Foggs site and followed instructions very easy.
I mounted an extra blower on side to keep heat off my hands (http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn293/coonpeter/Forge002.jpg) (http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn293/coonpeter/Forge004.jpg)
Karl ,Lin or anybody else that Knows??I need to make a forge to weld Damascus was wondering if this would work(pic below) and how long it should be and how many ports I should put in?????
It is 10" and was going to line it with the same stuff as the smaller forge .I used 1.5" wool. Was really wondering if I could make it just like the first one and T-off (one burner and two pipes)
Or should I forget this and make it rectangle out of steel???? (http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn293/coonpeter/Forge006.jpg)
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I think I'm going to play with a brick forge first before I build a larger one. Anyone got a link to a place to buy a couple of those big bricks? SKippy
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Kevin,
I use my regular gas forge for both. I just crank it up a bit for damascus. When the flux starts dancing, your ready. Lin
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Kevin, that's what my 12 inch is for. Have a "back door" on the forge so you can pass the longer stuff through as you forge it down. I have that tube on mine so it doesn't loose its heat. With a vertical one, you can place about 2 inches of kat litter made from clay in the bottom and that keeps it from acting like Alien Blood and eating through the bottom of the forge.
With that horizontal one you have there, I'm no expert, but I think you'd be happier with a bigger diameter vertical forge.
You know Don Hanson? Makes a LOT of damascus. He cleans his out about every two or three years and has been using the same forge for a looooooooooooooooooong time.
The trick is the Cat litter.
I'd stay verical like Lin says.
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Yea guys mine gets plenty hot ,but the inside is only 8" of working .I have door in both sides but only 8" will get hot I would like to make a 12" to 14" billet maybe longer.
Are you trying to tell me to only work part of the billet at a time???
Karl you can see mine has a steel bottom part of the tube I have that wool in it.Not worried about the bottom yet.
Guys could I lay it down horizontal cut hole in top that would probably give me 12" then I could make something simple and temporary to close doors on the side.
By the way I tried to call.Later
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Karl went back and looked at your pics .Got It!!!! Will it get hot enough in that extenion tube????
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It won't GET HOT, but once you have it hot, it won't be subjected to the room air while it's in that tube.
It'll hold its heat for a while.
With a 12 inch forge, and proper fuel/air supply, like Lin and I have, where you run high pressure from the tank, and then tweak it down with a needle valve at the forge, and PLENTY of air, you'll heat up more steel that you can move.
And it you're making Damascus, you want to forge it HOT, and if you heat up 10 inches of steel, it'll cool off before you can work it anyway.
No reason to heat up more steel than you can move while hot.
Work the end first, then run that into the extension tube and work the next section.
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Wow guys, I don't forge but this is a great topic!
Dan
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That's right Karl, I only care about the part I can heat and forge untill it cools. I cant say this too much. Forge damascus hot. When it gets down to medium red, go back into the forge.
When I get a billet drawn out so long I cant heat it all, I start working the front half, because of the weight distribution. I get it the way I want and work the back half, blending the front and back to look like it was all done at the same time. Let the heat lap over each time.
Lin
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I need info like that.
I'll be tweaking my Damascus "talents" this year.
Speaking of Damascus, you testing MS this year?
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That's the plan Karl, but we'll have to see. I'm stretched out thin lately. Figure of speech only ;) .
There's so much to learn. Lin
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Cool stuff everybody! Looks like a great little hammer Kevin! Well been to the TBM anual gathering this weekend so missed out on this one. Did I mention I won a bow in one of the raffles ;)
Anyway while some sure work better than others there are alot of options in forges. My first gas forge was a metal five gallon bucket lined with ceramic wool with a 3/8" copper pipe run thru the side to feed the LP. I built several after that but here's my 1st really successful one.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/gotahunt/TG%20Tradware%20Outpost/Oneofmyfirstdecentforges.jpg)
There is a 6" hole cut thru ceramic brick all plastered with refractory cement then the whole thing wrapped in ceramic wool again. What ya think of that burner manifold? That was when I had access to lots of cool toys at a place i worked...
When we moved to MT weight was a real concern so I sold most of my stuff and bought an NC Forge Whisper Momma I think and have been using it since. Here it is behind me, sorry it's not real clear but it's a 3 burner atmospheric, takes a little more pressure than one like Karl or Lin's but works pretty good for a square-ish fire box.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/gotahunt/Doug-Campbell-forge.gif)
It's not the best but I've run alot of metal thru it and will work OK till I get a real flame thrower built again.
Oh and did I mention I won a bow in one of the raffles this weekend ;)
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Pics Doug, pics. Of the bow! :D
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Doug
You don't have to wait till you kill something with it to let us see it!!! :campfire: :archer: :archer: :archer: :biglaugh:
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Doug I like that hat!!! You like like youz just jumped off a pony at the Battle of the Little Bighorn!
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Awesome thread guys. Giving me some great ideas for the forge I want to build. I have a few link to suppliers sites but would prefer to deal with someone who you guys trust. Where should I go for my blanket and cement? Skippy
Do you think If I made a firebox inside small like the firebrick size that I could fire it with the bernzomatic torch for starters?
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Very nice , Congrats Doug :0) :thumbsup:
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Sorry for getting off topic, well not really ;) But he's building the bow to my specs so I wont have it for a couple months. Thanks
That hat looks like it's been around since the Battle of the Little Bighorn Ray ;) Karen finally made me retire it :eek:
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Doug, I really dig that manifold on the forced air forge!!
Looks like you got it off of a V6.
Congratulations on the bow.
Hope you can build a knife to match!!
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I knew I'd seen that barn before :) Here are a couple of other picture of Doug's set up...Doc
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/tippit/Knives/MontanaDamascus2.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/tippit/Knives/MontanaDamascus1.jpg)
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Cool, I remember that ;)
Headed out for TX in the wee hours tomorrow. See ya there Doc and you other guys hold down the fort for a couple weeks I got pigs to chase. :D
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I just ordered up some supplies from Ellis Custom Knifeworks for some Inswool/satanite/ and a firebrick. I'm going to start with the infamous Wayne Goddard one brick forge and then start my build up for my pipe forge. I think I'm going to stay small so I can still use a propane torch. Then go bigger and better as I learn. Skippy
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Here's a non-forced air burner design I came up with and used for a smelting furnace that is easily made with Pipe fittings. Hope it helps someone.
(http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z249/Blinkies_by_Lori/Phoenix%20Knives/Propaneburner.jpg)
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(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk155/DBSULLY/shop1004.jpg)
Heres one I am building. A pipe, some cinder blocks, wire, charcoal, and a el cheapo leaf blower...
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I received my order from Ellis Custom Knifeworks the other day and finally got around to building my one brick forge.
I started with one "soft" firebrick and drilled holes from each end until they connected then just slowly ran the drill bit sideways like a rotozip bit to enlarge the chamber. I then drilled a hole in the side for the burner about midway. I'll be using the bernzomatic jth7 torch that I picked up at HD on clearance for $18. Today I applied the first of two coats of satanite refractory cement to help stabilize the brick a bit as it is so fragile to begin with plus it will help with heat retention in the chamber. Here are a few pics along the way and also one of the gas tank I plan to build a larger forge from in the future.
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y249/imskippy/hunting/th_knife210.jpg) (http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y249/imskippy/hunting/?action=view¤t=knife210.jpg)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y249/imskippy/hunting/th_knife212.jpg) (http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y249/imskippy/hunting/?action=view¤t=knife212.jpg)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y249/imskippy/hunting/th_knife220.jpg) (http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y249/imskippy/hunting/?action=view¤t=knife220.jpg)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y249/imskippy/hunting/th_knife222.jpg) (http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y249/imskippy/hunting/?action=view¤t=knife222.jpg)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y249/imskippy/hunting/th_knife224.jpg) (http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y249/imskippy/hunting/?action=view¤t=knife224.jpg)
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Here she is on full heat only abput 3 or 4 minutes. How's she look?
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y249/imskippy/hunting/forge3.jpg)