Trad Gang
Main Boards => Hunting Knives and Crafters => Topic started by: kirkwhitehead on October 05, 2008, 03:11:00 PM
-
Just picked up a little Anza knife in a bow trade (gotta love trading) and was hoping to get thoughts on them and file blade knives in general. They have a nice web site but this knife is not on it. Mine has a gray/red diamondwood handle, very nice looking knife w/good leather to go with it.
So what is the popular opinion on knives with file steel? I am hoping y'all will say easy to sharpen and spooky sharp!
How about building a knife, Helle kit or file blade? Which material would be easier to sharpen? I have a Boker trapper that is my daily knife but it is SS and is a tad picky about getting an edge. For a work knife I don't mind but to cut flesh I want sharp,sharp!
thanks
guys
kirk
-
A good file is made from good steel. There are cheap files out there made with trash steel (read that as "Made in China"). As long as the knife is made with good steel and the heat treatment is correct knives made from files are very good.
Making a knife out of a file isn't any more complicated than making a knife out of any other piece of barstock. You need to soften the steel before you start grinding though or it's going to take forever.
If you just want to build a few knives and not get involved with building a forge and proper heat treating, a Helle blade is the way to go.
As far as sharpening, steel differences between a Helle and a file knife don't make a difference. The heat treatment and knife design will though.
The Helle blades are almost idiot proof for sharpening. You lay the entire bevel flat on the stone - there is no secondary bevel to worry about. If you make a file knife the same way it'll be just as simple to sharpen
If you don't, then when sharpening you just need to be concerned with keeping the sharpening angle the same with every stroke. If you leave the steel extremely hard and have a larger secondary bevel on a knife you'll need more strokes on the stone to get it sharp... don't keep the angle the same with every stroke and it's not going to get as sharp as it can be.
-
well thanks, maybe I should have asked about the type of steel and how that relates to resharpening. The SS used in my Boker seems hard to sharpen, the CV in my old case is very easy to sharpen. I was not sure where a nicholson file or the Helle blades fall on the list of resharpening. I am able to sharpen the Boker just fine it just takes a few more strokes.
kirk
-
The devil is in the heat treat.
If you leave the steel very hard (temper at lower temperatures) it's going to take longer to sharpen and you'll need to be more careful to keep the angle the same on each stroke. Take the same steel and edge geometry temper it at a higher temperature and it'll sharpen quicker - the steel will be softer. It'll need to be sharpened more often though.
So ease of sharpening all comes down to how hard the steel is (heat treatment) and the amount of steel you need to work (secondary bevel width).
The Helle blades have a core of hard steel wrapped with a much softer steel. You're not working very much of the hard steel at any point and the soft steel doesn't take much to work.
When you get into the lower end SS, you get steels that are, for lack of a better word, gummy. Grain size is larger than in a properly treated tool steel and working with them can be frustrating. Properly treated 440C is a passable knife steel, regular 440 (or A or B) is not imo. 420 is junk, and you see lots of knives made out of it.
I know Boker uses a lot of C75 (not a stainless steel) and 440C, but have seen a few where they just list the steel type as "stainless"... not very reassuring.
-
I don't see a lot of difference in wear-resistance (in knives anyway) between the good tools and spring steels. O1, A2, 5160, 1095, 1080, W2 etc... unless you're doing some serious torture testing I don't think the average person would be able to tell the difference between them (assuming the correct heat treat). Likewise with the good stainless, though I don't own much of that.
my .02 anyway. Maybe Karl or Lin or someone that works in a machine shop will chime in.
-
my Boker just says stainless. My old caseXX says the same thing.Bummer.
what carbon steel letter numbers do I need to look for?
thanks
kirk
-
if you are wanting to start making knives for cheap, i just ordered 5 feet of 1080 from admiral steel for $28 including shipping.
anza knives are made from nicholson files which are very good.
-
i have an anza knife. it is one of my better knives, and i wear mine as a daily user. one of the only knife makers that i have seen that leave the file teeth on the blade.
-
btw kirk, do you have any family in odessa?
-
Jeremy, you said it as good as I could. Factor in the maintainance, ease of sharpening to a crisp edge, and toughness, and I think simple carbon steel is for me.
The nature of a file's purpose requires it to be of a higher carbon content. Still, I would use the better "brands" to make into a knife.
Lin
-
only family in Texas is around Georgetown and Bell county.
Thanks guys, I do like this little knife and it seems to get really sharp pretty fast.
kirk
-
Didn't take the time to read all the above words from others, but Anza file knives are made from 1095 high carbon steel. If heat treated well, they make fine working knives. But they will rust like the dickens!!! Any good hi carbon non stainless steel will rust but steels with a porus finish catch and hold moisture, so be prepaired for keeping the knife well oiled.
-
sonevada archer, im not doubting you but, how did you get that info? is that what nicholson uses?
i know several people that have contacted nicholson to see what kind of steel they use and couldnt get ANY answers
-
Originally posted by Jeremy:
The devil is in the heat treat.
420 is junk, and you see lots of knives made out of it.
Agree with the first part but I've seen some knives from 420HC that hold an edge very well. I have a Harley Davidson branded folder that says "420HC CryoEdge made in USA" and I can skin and cut up a couple of deer and it's still shaving sharp. It may not be the best stuff out there, but I sure wouldn't call it "junk" either.
-
wampus, i think cryo is big part of that edge holding ability
-
unlucky,
I am not should about Nicholson USA, but the Nicholson plant in Brazil only uses W1 in their files.
James
-
Several years ago Ed Caffrey had the chemical makeup of a bunch of files tested. All Nicholson brand came out as 1095. Most of the others did, as well. Some of the cheaper Asian brands were case hardened. He tested several old Black Diamond brand files that tested at 1.27% carbon. Wayne Goddard also mentions the Black Diamonds at 1.27% in his first book, I believe.
Don Fogg lives close to a Nicholson manufacturing plant. He bought a bunch of steel from the plant several years ago that was in sizes that wouldn't fit their machinery. All of the steel was 1095.
Todd