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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: B.O.D. on January 23, 2008, 10:21:00 AM

Title: Reparrow??
Post by: B.O.D. on January 23, 2008, 10:21:00 AM
With all the talk about high-FoC, I was wondering if anybody has tried the "Reparrow"system?

It is reverse-tapered insert made from walnut, cherry or purple heart that you epoxy directly over a standard taper, then taper the reparrow footing like you would a regular arrow.

I'm thinking if you cut your cedars about 4" shorter and glued the reparrows on the taper, it would bump the weight way up( if you used the heavy P-Heart.)

Anybody ever try 'em?? if so, do they work well??
They look like they would really beef the point end up alot.
BD
Title: Re: Reparrow??
Post by: Orion on January 23, 2008, 10:32:00 AM
I've tried them.  They work good for what they are intended to do, i.e., extend the length/life of an arrow.  

However, they don't add much weight to the front of the arrow.  I think mine are maple or birch.  The 4-inch segments weigh an average of 55 grains before tapering -- say about 16 grains per inch.  My 11/32 cedars average 14 grains per inch. So replacing 4 inches of cedar with 4 inches of maple or birch only adds 8 grains or so.
Title: Re: Reparrow??
Post by: SlowBowinMO on January 23, 2008, 10:46:00 AM
I've got some I'm working with.  So far I really like them.  I would agree with Orion's assessment as well.
Title: Re: Reparrow??
Post by: B.O.D. on January 23, 2008, 10:50:00 AM
Is the PH heavier than either the birch or maple??? being an oily exotic, you would think it would be??  :)

It is too bad they don't really weight-up the tip...

But I would think they do make a tougher, more FoC arrow than a standard tip. ie. Stumpshooting?
Title: Re: Reparrow??
Post by: Dave2old on January 23, 2008, 12:10:00 PM
I've used 'em to repair broke-tip shafts and they work fine insofar as maintaining accuracy. I suspect we'll be hearing from the Reparrow system folk. Seems to me that with all the attention Ashby's research is focusing on the importance of high FoC to penetration, and the difficulty in obtaining it in wood shafts short of expensive footed shafts, Reparrow would take advantage of the market opportunity and offer the heaviest thing they can come up with. Heavy wood and slightly longer could indeed make a difference. And unlike really heavy broadheads, it should weaken the overall shaft stiffness that much. We now have at least two leading 2-blade broadhead makers working hard to produce an Ashby-style head, and there's clearly a need for an affordable high FoC "adaptor" for wood shafts.
Title: Re: Reparrow??
Post by: B.O.D. on January 23, 2008, 12:20:00 PM
Well said Dave.
Since reading the article in TBM; I have been trying to find a way to come up with a viable method for a high FoC woodie.

I just like wood arrows.   :)
Title: Re: Reparrow??
Post by: UKarcher on January 23, 2008, 12:33:00 PM
Jim in Maine (Reparrow) is a member here. I'm sure he'll come along and answer your questions. I used to throw all my broken arrows away when I was in the UK, but now I'm in the US, I'll probably be ordering some Reparrows at some time. Personally, if I was looking for a high FOC natural arrow, I'd go for rivercane with its natural taper.
Graham
Title: Re: Reparrow??
Post by: B.O.D. on January 23, 2008, 12:39:00 PM
Sounds like some heavy Reparrow stuff???

Cocbolo? Osage?
Maybe ebony? or how about dymondwood?

that is some stout-stuff.
:)
Title: Re: Reparrow??
Post by: Patience on January 23, 2008, 12:40:00 PM
Just to add a little extra to this; Cary, have you ever tried to go with smaller fletching to bring up your FOC? Bare with me on this for a second. Everyone adds to the point to increase FOC but I haven't heard mention of how much is added to the back end with the big Feathers. Take any finished arrow and measure FOC, now take the fletching off and smaller feathers. Your FOC will increase. The only question is at what cost? We use large flething for a reason. I guess what I am trying to say is; why not work both ends instead of just one. Add a little to the point end and take a little away from the back end.
Title: Re: Reparrow??
Post by: B.O.D. on January 23, 2008, 12:44:00 PM
Nick,

           I shoot tapered shafts to begin with, and I am moving from 5.5 Hi-back shields, to 5" parabolics again.

This, with more FoC from a heavier foreshaft should be a good combo.

CD  :)
Title: Re: Reparrow??
Post by: SlowBowinMO on January 23, 2008, 12:45:00 PM
Good idea, even longer and denser wood would help the FOC part.  Of course, really heavy and dense wood like Ipe or whatever is going to need a woodchuck or something to taper it, hand held tools ain't gonna do it!
Title: Re: Reparrow??
Post by: B.O.D. on January 23, 2008, 12:47:00 PM
Well Jim??????  :saywhat:
Title: Re: Reparrow??
Post by: JEFF B on January 23, 2008, 01:00:00 PM
well i wanted to try some but the guy did not want to send them to new zealand. go figure. hello!!!!
Title: Re: Reparrow??
Post by: Orion on January 23, 2008, 01:53:00 PM
Even a really dense wood at the same 4-inch length isn't going to add much-- maybe 20-25 grains at the most.  Suppose that's better than nothing.

Regarding smaller fletching to lower the back end.  Again the difference is minimal.  My 5-inch shields weigh about 5 grains each.  That's 15 grains, not counting the glue, for three feathers.  At the most, you can only cut it by 5 grains or so and it would take pretty small feathers to do it.

A fella on the other thread (High FOC woodies)has the answer, a tapered steel outsert that fits on the shaft like a regular point, and it itself is tapered to accept a broaadhead.  Could be made in various weights from 50-150 grains pretty easily.  All he needs to do is convince someone to produce it.  I'll buy them.
Title: Re: Reparrow??
Post by: B.O.D. on January 23, 2008, 02:22:00 PM
I used the aluminum style of those years ago...broke all kinds of arrows right behind where it glues on.
Not a viable option IMO>  :)
Title: Re: Reparrow??
Post by: Bjorn on January 23, 2008, 02:59:00 PM
The Reparrow footing works great for it's intended use-repair an arrow that has broken in the first couple of inches. I have used them a fair bit and will continue to do that.
As for high FOC I'm getting Ted at Raptor Archery (who is a sponsor here) to foot me a couple of dozen arrows with a hunting taper, that and a 190 Grizzly will get me to where I want to be-650-700 is as heavy as I want to get with my 50# ACS.
Title: Re: Reparrow??
Post by: Stone Knife on January 23, 2008, 03:08:00 PM
I like them for arrow repair, I have used them on a 5/16 shaft so I could put on a 11/32 ferreled broadhead. I like the walnut they are tuffer than the cherry.
Title: Re: Reparrow??
Post by: Tater on January 23, 2008, 08:12:00 PM
Drill a 3/16ths hole length ways in the Reparrow and fill it with solder that ought to get the weight up!
Title: Re: Reparrow??
Post by: Orion on January 23, 2008, 08:20:00 PM
My shooting partner has been experimenting with that on a standard shaft.  Drills a 3/16 hole about three inches into the point end of the shaft and epoxies in a nail shaft.  Adds about 100 grains.  Should strengthen the shaft as well because the nail will be imbedded in the shaft two inches behind the head.  He says they definitely fly well.  Hasn't put them to a real toughness test yet.
Title: Re: Reparrow??
Post by: Kevin L. on January 23, 2008, 09:56:00 PM
I've used the repair footings for a couple of years now, including doing some "destruction" testing on some made of locust. I wouldn't be without a dozen in my workshop.

Kevin
Title: Re: Reparrow??
Post by: Jim now in Kentucky on January 23, 2008, 10:38:00 PM
Hey, you guys snuck up on this subject  while I'm at work and didn't notice!

HO'NEHE JEFF, I'll  send them anywhere now. I think  that was back  when I was thinking  of patenting the idea. If I marketed them in most countries before patenting, I  could not  get a patent.

Now I just rely on the fact that there isn't  a lot  of money to be made with them and  it's too  much trouble to set  up--and  I keep  my mouth shut about  how to  make  them.   :goldtooth:

I use  them every  time  I break a an arrow near the point. I dreamed them up for ME! But then  decided other  folks would have fun conquering  the  'broken arrow syndrome" too.

Glad  you guys like them.
Title: Re: Reparrow??
Post by: B.O.D. on January 24, 2008, 09:31:00 AM
Jim,

          Have you thought of doing some very dense-wood models???
thanks.
BD  :)
Title: Re: Reparrow??
Post by: varmint on January 24, 2008, 09:36:00 AM
I use them and they work perfectly for their intended purpose.......extending the life of a tip broken arrow.I would love to see them offered in some very dense hardwoods and about 8-10" long.
Title: Re: Reparrow??
Post by: SlowBowinMO on January 24, 2008, 09:56:00 AM
I think that would be neat also.  About 8" long and point tapered on the front end.  Then you could just cut the softwood arrow to your desired length and add a real hardwood, pre-tapered footing.

Good stuff though Jim!   :D
Title: Re: Reparrow??
Post by: Jim now in Kentucky on January 24, 2008, 04:25:00 PM
There are  some production  issues with making them longer. Most important is that a slight kink in a shaft  will  not show up at all  in a 4" length, but in eight  inches,  there's a waste factor of shafts that  are just  not  straight  enough.

I can do any wood I can get  in a dowel or square, but I have to leave a couple of  thousanths of an inch over cedar  size for sanding to  a smooth transition. I have  thought it too much work for the customer to sand those exotic  woods. This  is one part of archery whose reason for  being  is that  it's  easier.
Title: Re: Reparrow??
Post by: B.O.D. on January 24, 2008, 04:28:00 PM
I don't mind some sanding, and I would be interested in some heavy woods... :)
Title: Re: Reparrow??
Post by: JEFF B on January 24, 2008, 07:11:00 PM
well jim thats good to hear so i can tell the guys at the club about them now thank you.  :thumbsup: