Is 4 Fletch better than 3 fletch?Does it straighten the arrow much faster than 3 fletch?
Does it create problems when shooting off the shelf because of contact?
Your thoughts?
Thanks
Bob :archer:
Conttact is really not a problem for arrow flight with either 3 or 4 fletch. I do not feel 4 has any advantage except ya can go with shorter feathers to get the same surface area as 3 fletch so when cutting you own feathers you can get 3 feathers out of one full length feather instead of the normal two. Shawn
I used to shoot 3 fletch but swapped to four beacuse I could go to four 4 inch feathers like Shawn said above. I think it looks neat, but in reality it's 6 of one half dozen of the other. Mark
I'm a big fan of 4 fletch....Not because 3 fletch doesn't stabilize okay but I like that ball of color spinning into the target. I do think that 4 fletch straightens up a tad quicker from a bad release.
I'm a huge advocate of 4 fletch.
Not only is it more economical when using full length feathers (2 great 4"er's as opposed to 1 great and one "second", if at all, 5"), but 4x4" actually gives more surface area than 3x5".
I originally went to 4 fletch to stabilize large surface area broadheads and stayed with them for their stabilizing effects on the arrow regardless of the type of head... including field points.
I can tell a difference in my accuracy when switching from 3 to 4 fletch arrows, don't find the extra drag affects trajectory noticably and can be assured that I've got the most stable arrow going.
I also switched over from 3 to 4 fletch (4 x 4" @ 90 degrees) last year. I believe the arrows are now quieter and less affected by cross winds. The primary motivation behind my switching was that I didn't want to have to think about whether the cockfeather was 'in' or 'out' when stringing the arrow. Also, I prefer the aesthetics of a 4 fletch arrow with a shorter lower profile.
To me It does not make Much Of a Difference
Anyone else tried using two fletch? I have tried primitive style two fletch and two fletch with 5 inch fletching. Although it was on a limited scale, it appeared the arrows flew very well.
I believe that it is important to have plenty of helical, and that the arrow be tuned closely to the bow. Having done that, you should get good arrow flight.
2fletch
QuoteOriginally posted by Charlie Lamb:
I'm a huge advocate of 4 fletch.
Not only is it more economical when using full length feathers (2 great 4"er's as opposed to 1 great and one "second", if at all, 5"), but 4x4" actually gives more surface area than 3x5".
I originally went to 4 fletch to stabilize large surface area broadheads and stayed with them for their stabilizing effects on the arrow regardless of the type of head... including field points.
I can tell a difference in my accuracy when switching from 3 to 4 fletch arrows, don't find the extra drag affects trajectory noticably and can be assured that I've got the most stable arrow going.
+1 :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
I use a 75x105 feather configuration, either chopped or burned high cut 4" shields, and get I great clearance off the shelf. Also faster for nocking as there's no indexing cock feather to be concerned about!
I like 4 fletch 75x105 or 60x120. Mainly because I don't have to look at my arrow to make sure the cock feather is in or out.
I wanted to give this a bump because it is something I am interested in as well, and would like more information on it. :D
QuoteOriginally posted by dano140:
I wanted to give this a bump because it is something I am interested in as well, and would like more information on it. :D
Don't think there's more to it than what Charlie posted, 'cept adding in the faster nocking since no indexing is required.
There are basically three four fletch configurations - 75x105, 60x120 and 90x90 - trial all three and see what works best for you and yer bow(s). Even most of those cheap (but good!) polycarb fletchers will do four fletch. I use Bohning fletch tape and nothing could be faster or easier for four feather fletching on any kinda shaft material.
As always, YMMV! :D
I too switched to four fletch 4 at 90 degrees. I like them for he same reasons that everyone previously stated. I used to shoot 3- 5 1/2" feathers,shield cuts or bananas that's 16 1/2"s of feather versus 4 four fletch also shield cuts =16"s of feather.They seem quieter and fly straighter to me.
QuoteOriginally posted by 2fletch:
Anyone else tried using two fletch? I have tried primitive style two fletch and two fletch with 5 inch fletching. Although it was on a limited scale, it appeared the arrows flew very well.
I believe that it is important to have plenty of helical, and that the arrow be tuned closely to the bow. Having done that, you should get good arrow flight.
2fletch
2Fletch - I have been playing with a 2 fletch arrow. I have been friends with Jim Neaves of Centaur archery for about 5 years now and have shot his personal arrows that he uses a 2 fletch on. That is all he is shooting. He has been successful with them. I know for a broadhead set up he is using a 190 Simmons Shark. So he is getting a big head to fly great. I on the other hand am still experimenting with it.
I have shot mostly 3 fletch in the past but have been shootin some 4 fletch. Can't say for sure one way or the other what is better. I know that you have to tune your bow to the arrows. Just my 2 cents. Brock
Please be gentle, this is a really dumb question: when you do 60X120 or 75X105, does the wide angle (most gap) go "down" or to the "side"?
oops sorry, With feathers it will work either way, However some people find that the can get by with a lower nocking point by fletching so that the fethers are to the sides. There are easy instructions on side oriented 60x120 fletching on the Foxfire Archery site.
2 fletch, I have shot 2 fletch and get adequate stabilization with broadheads....but I don't get the ball of color effect that I love.
QuoteOriginally posted by oops sorry:
Please be gentle, this is a really dumb question: when you do 60X120 or 75X105, does the wide angle (most gap) go "down" or to the "side"?
60x120 yields the widest "side" angle of two feathers ... next is 75x105 ... lastly 90x90. Don't think that 90x90 will bounce the arrow off the plate as it whizzes by - it may not do that with yer bow and yer shooting style, and it may offer superior clearance!
Thank you! I'll give two angle four fletch a try...been doing 90 degree.
QuoteOriginally posted by oops sorry:
Thank you! I'll give two angle four fletch a try...been doing 90 degree.
I'd suggest the 75x105 if your fletcher can do it. If not, 60x120 can be done on any three fletch fletcher by fletching two hens and two cocks.
align the "wide angle" with the side of the bow and you'll be fine.
:thumbsup:
4 fletch! I sure wish I could get 3 4" feathers out of one full length.
QuoteOriginally posted by HATCHCHASER:
4 fletch! I sure wish I could get 3 4" feathers out of one full length.
You must be dreaming! :D
I switched to 60x120 4" two years ago and see no reason to ever go back to three fletch. I especially like the fact that I don't have to look when nocking an arrow for a follow up shot. Out to forty yards I see no difference in trajectory between 3 and 4 fletch and forty yards is twice the distance I will shoot at game anyway.
I've played with helical 4-fletch and straight offset 4-fletch and am hard pressed to tell much difference between the two. Does anyone else have an opinion about helical 4's versus straight offset 4's?
I was wondering what the pros and cons of
4 x 90 vs. 60 x 120 Are??
I recently fletched up a few 4 fletch 4x90s, and they seem to recover more quickly, with less shelf contact.
As far as lowering nock point, I'll have to experiment with that...
Charlie convinced me of the benefits of 4 fletch about 2 years ago. Despite the obvious 2 4" from one full length benefit, I also think that with 4 fletch, you can go with shorter/smaller feathers and still get the same stabilization. I'm using very low profile 4" nanners: they seem to stabilize as good as big feathers in 3 fletch hard helical, lose less speed, the shorter feather is a bit stiffer so hold their shape better when wet. To me, more than enough reasons to switch exclusively to 4 fletch. When I tune my arrows to where I'm happy with them, I can see no differences in any of the various 4 fletch configurations nor the orientation of any of the feathers to the shelf...they all shoot the same, so I just shoot 4x90.
And like Gator1, I think 4 fletch stabilize a little more quickly.
John, I haven't done offset but I have fletched 4x90 throughout the adjustment range of my Bitz jig...from straight to as hard helical as will fit on the shaft, both left and right wing. I can only tell just a slight bit of difference, with the harder helical settings being slightly more stabilizing. It may all be in my head, but any 4 fletch config seems to stabilize as good as hard helical 3 fletch.
QuoteOriginally posted by John Havard:
I've played with helical 4-fletch and straight offset 4-fletch and am hard pressed to tell much difference between the two. Does anyone else have an opinion about helical 4's versus straight offset 4's?
I've tried both helical and offset and can't perceive any difference, but my feathers are 4" custom burned high back shields so I might see some better stabilizing if I lowered the feather heights and went with a heavy helical.
JC - you said it all. I'm a recent convert to using 4" parabolic 4 X 90, the shorter feather does not protrude into the airstream as much as a high back shield cut, so less drag, so the arrow flies flatter. plus the smaller feather gets much less bedraggled in damp weather. plus they seem to just slide right off the shelf. I have only fletched them with as much helical as I could get. and I haven't had the guts to try them with broadheads yet.
I started shooting 4-4" feathers at 75x105 12 years ago. That is still my combo of choice. I can get 2 feathers from one full length feather. They help my arrows fly straight and will stabilize a big broadhead like a Zwickey Delta.
Brett
QuoteOriginally posted by mudfish:
and I haven't had the guts to try them with broadheads yet.
Don't be askeered....they work with broadheads too!
Hope it's OK to jump in here..............
I just fletched some arrows with 4X90 and I'm getting a little tail high kick from them. My 3 fletch flies great.
I'm thinking I need to go a little higher with my nock point????
Am I correct?
hnh
QuoteOriginally posted by 2fletch:
Anyone else tried using two fletch? I have tried primitive style two fletch and two fletch with 5 inch fletching. Although it was on a limited scale, it appeared the arrows flew very well.
I believe that it is important to have plenty of helical, and that the arrow be tuned closely to the bow. Having done that, you should get good arrow flight.
2fletch
last year I had some 2 fletched arrows. They flow great, the only down side was you couldn't see the arrow in flight to well...
QuoteOriginally posted by highnoonhunter:
Hope it's OK to jump in here..............
I just fletched some arrows with 4X90 and I'm getting a little tail high kick from them. My 3 fletch flies great.
I'm thinking I need to go a little higher with my nock point????
Am I correct?
hnh
Absolutely.
QuoteOriginally posted by JC:
I'm using very low profile 4" nanners:
Those low profile symmetrical nanners can certainly look real sharp as well (images lifted from the German Kinetics site)
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d147/alphawolf_/purty3.jpg)
Found this thread just in time. Was making my list for the Kzoo show and you all helped me decide to go back to four fletch. The only reason I was using three was it was cheaper. I pray that my financial woes are behind me, but being frugal minded I think I will be the proud new owner of a chopper soon.
Anyway thanks for the info. Really found it helpful
I dont think anyone will actually read this but here goes:
Remember A properly tuned bow / arrow combination, truly needs no feathers, Having done this on all my bows, with the help of some of you, I shoot 4" 4fletch, 5"3 fletch and the occasional 5"2 fletch (because they fall off) with the exact same accuracy. It really comes down to personal preference, and what your fletcher allows you to do.
Pardon a dumb newbie question, but what is 60x120 and 90x90. I assume it's the position of the feathers one to another, but what are you measuring?
Thanks in advance, sam
Degrees around the circle of the arrow shaft.
QuoteOriginally posted by Ssamac:
Pardon a dumb newbie question, but what is 60x120 and 90x90. I assume it's the position of the feathers one to another, but what are you measuring?
Thanks in advance, sam
It's all about the angle of feather placement around the shaft ...
(http://www.tradgang.com/docs/fletching.jpg)
TTT
Charlie which angle do you prefer ? I've done them all. Most recently the 60x120...not sure I like it too much. Seems my nock tuning is more picky for proper clearance.
The logic would seem that 4 X 90 would provide the best side clearance ?
Gordy.... I like the 75x105. Have used the 4x90 quite a bit in the past, but just like the 75x105 better... nothing scientific, just do.
Best side clearance of the two would be the 75x105, but best all around would have to be the 4x90.
I tried the 60x120, but didn't care for it at all. Mostly the looks I guess.
Thanks Charlie, think I'll go back to the 75X105 since that's what I know best.
Was just thinking the 4X90 might be "better" ;)
I also prefer 75x105 - just a good compromise between those other two four fletch angles.
I tried three fletch about ten years ago because I figured it would save some money. They flew ok if I did my part. My problem is Murphy's law. It seems everytime I am close up with an animal and something can go wrong it does. If I have a bad release with four fletch it straightens up much faster. That in turn can make a difference on penetration if you are close.Gary
I read your post earlier Charlie and you said,"the wide angle goes against the side of the bow" on a 75x105. I'm just trying to get this straight. With that said it would appear (while looking at the arrow from behind)that the fletchings are more straight up and down than side to side? I'm sorry I don't know how to explain this. Could somebody draw me a picture. When I put the wide angle towards the side of the bow my arrows seem to shoot to the right and a little high. If I put the wide angle up my PSA shoots where I look. I need some help (other than what my wife would have you believe). I thought I would throw in that I'm left handed and cant the bow. I'm trying to figure out where the fletchings are hitting. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks,DAVE
Dave... I think you have it right bud. Looking from the back of the arrow, the narrow "V" of the fletching would be on top and on bottom.
The wide "V" would be on each side... like this ><
I have a feeling there is something amiss with your tuning if you need to turn the narrow side to the bow. Very possibly a nocking point that's too low.
What Charlie just said ... here's a view of what those fletchings will look like when attached to yer bowstring ...
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/4f.jpg)
Very good Rob! The orientation of the other pic could have given the wrong idea.
:thumbsup:
I think 4 fletch def stabalizes out the arrow quicker and also make the arrow look a whole lot better. Its also great to just grab an arrow and shoot without having to worry about a cock feather. I can't notice any drag dif.
Thanks for ya'lls help. I figured out why my arrows were hitting right and a little high. The calf hair rest(from factory) had pulled loose on the string side of the riser and was catching the quill. The high shooting was caused by a low nock, as you suspected Charlie. So again thanks a bunch fellas. God Bless, DAVE
Charlie , wouldn't the best feather clearance be with the 60-120 and the worst would be the 4-90 , seems to me there would be more shelf/sight window contact for the 4-90 and more feather wear . Also , maybe its my eyes , but on Rob's schematic the 75-105 and the 4-90 look the same??? I used the 60-120 for many years ( with a 1/8th counter clockwise nock turn) , but have recently changed to 75-105 , simply because it's easier to do.right now my set up is 4- 4 1/2" shield cut vanes set at 75-105 with 1/8th nock turn off an elevated brush rest with a 5/8th nock point height. Works great.
I ain't an old timer at this so take this as a whippersnapper's opinion (who's shot a few arrows)...but out of my bows, when the arrow is tuned properly, it makes no difference how the feathers hit the shelf. Nock and or feather orientation makes no difference at all to me. I'll often rotate the nocks on my carbons to align broadheads the way I like them...the feathers rarely hit the shelf in the same place...but the arrows all land right where they are supposed to and flight is gorgeous...IF, I do my part ;)
+1 to what JC just said, that's the gospel of arras and fletchings, IMHO.
The advantage of 4-fletch for me is getting a pair of 4" feathers from a single full length feather, and no nock indexing to be concerned about when loading an arra on the bowstring.
I have been experimenting with 3-5.5" high back bananas and 4-4"-Fletch bananas, 75-105 and 4-90, as much helical as I can get. I'm can't tell any difference in stabilization, but the 4 fletch are quieter, hold their shape better, especially when crowded in a quiver, add the fact that I can get two from a full length feather, and I'll be sticking with them.
I use the same chopper for both length Bananas by gluing a piece of leather shoe lace against the base of my Little Chopper with contact cenent. Then I butt the feather against that. It's a shade over 1/8" thick and shortens my Nanner's to about 4 1/4", and shortens the height to 5/8". It creates a nicely shaped feather that flies great. The shoe lace can be peeled off if I ever decide to cut the 5.5" again.
I've seen several comments about having to look for the cock feather with three fletch. I have been trying something I saw, I believe it was on the "Masters of the Barebow 2" video by Fred E., about shooting with the cock feather in not making any difference due to arrow bend during Paradox. It works! I can tell no difference nocking either way.
I've been fletching 60-120 based on the Foxfire Archery Website (http://www.arrowsbykelly.com/Other_Tips.html)
Their pic of the 60-120 is quite a bit different than yours Rob. It maximizes for shelf clearance, not sideplate clearance.
Great Thread thanks for all the info.
I have been thinking of trying 4 fletch. With my 3 fletch I have recently had to go to cock feather in when shooting skinny carbon or 5/16" arrows. If I don't the feather digs into my index finger. They also seem to paper tune better this way. I am right handed shooting RW helical feathers. I would like the better arrow flight and broadhead stability of the 4 fletch. Would one of these configurations help avoid the feather scratching my finger or should I switch to LW feathers to solve this?
Thanks,
Chad R
Sergio... in theory the 60x120 would give better side clearance. I just don't like the looks of it... call me picky!
;)
The thing about clearance of feathers is just as JC stated. Properly tuned shafts and there ain't a lick of difference between any of them.
Of course you did say you were using "vanes" and clearance could definately be an issue. I suspect the 75x105 should give you plenty... that's what I used in the days when I used an elevated rest and plastic fletch. A damn effective set up by the way!
Chad... you could try rotating your nocks just a smidge to get the feather away from you finger.
I've also heard switching to left wings (for a right hand archer) will stop the problem.
Yup ! I agree with ya Charlie if everything is tuned right and using feathers theres probably no difference. Thats the great thing about archery , many ways to things and a lot of the different ways produce the same results.
Sergio
I would say that it's not the feather per say but the quill that is tearing you finger up Chad. I had a problem with this also when I first started shooting and Fred Asbell advised me to sand the quills of my feathers down real thin. It worked really well. Just a suggestion. Good Luck, DAVE
Put a dab of fletching cement at each end of the feather, too.
I've asked Tim Schoenborn to post a pic of one of my arrows with a tight left wing helical twist, just to show how much helical one can put on feathers if so inclined . I don't use this much helical any more, because it caused some other problems
QuoteOriginally posted by SERGIO VENNERI:
I've asked Tim Schoenborn to post a pic of one of my arrows with a tight left wing helical twist, just to show how much helical one can put on feathers if so inclined . I don't use this much helical any more, because it caused some other problems
here ya go............
(http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z143/TimSchoenborn/PICT0105_2.jpg)
Thank You again Tim !!
I found from my experience that the 75X105 worked the best for me...
The 60X120's were kicking a little and I noticed that the feathers were getting black from the tanned beavertail on the shelf of my bow...
Happy hunting,
Jason