Just wondering who all baits whitetail deer for hunting? I myself hunt with bait and like having close shots at whitetail.I hope this topic doesn't start any bickering.
we can't "bait" in missouri.
nope.. legal here but I dont care for it..
I've hunted over corn for years and have been very sucessfull, with the compound and the recurve. I have also caught a lot of flack for doing it from my friends, and others who say it isn't fair and all that.
I will tell you this though....I have hunted for twenty years, killing a whole lot of deer out of tree stands and on the ground while hunting over a feeder.
In all that time, I have only seen ONE trophy buck while hunting with corn. ONE.
I think big bucks, at least the ones who have been around a while, dont like all the activity and the extra scent you leave behind when tending to the feeders......the does and young bucks dont really care too much...I've actually urinated next to the corn and they paid no attention to it whatsoever.
Since then, I've stopped using it, and stopped worrying about quantity and started thinking about quality. My wife hunts with a compound, it's her job to fill the freezer....it's mine to decorate the wall!!!
It's a science here in Michigan. Some guys just hunt trails going to other guys bait. Some even camoflauge their bait so it is harded for others to spot. We use corn and attractants and it livens up the day for bird and squirrel watching too.
Baiting is illegal in Mississippi. With that said, one of my best friends is the busiest taxidermists in these parts and he states that it is rare to receive a head that doesn't have traces of corn in it's mouth.
Hunting food plots is legal and most everyone I know plants them for deer. Most of the traditional guys I associate with don't hunt plots much because you usually don't get the close shots we prefer. Also, you will rarely see a mature buck in a plot during legal hours around here.
I plant one close to home every year to watch the does and fawns feed. I never shoot them, just watch. Honestly it would be like shooting fish in a barrel.
Hunting over bait is illegal here in GA, and I hope its never legal. I love the challenge of putting the puzzle together.
That being said, I love going to TX every year at the end of our season, and yes, baiting is legal. Its not a cake walk let me tell ya. But it sure is fun watching deer interact for long periods of time if your not just doe/meat hunting. Believe it or not, there's a lot of strategy incorporated in hunting over bait if you want to kill a big buck. Its a different type of 'hunting' if you will....Completely different than the tactics I apply here in GA. Both are fun and exciting. Just rather not have it legal here in GA.
Suppose I'd like bear hunting over bait as well up north, but I gotta tell ya, stalking bears on the ground here in GA is a rush I don't think can be replaced very easy!!!
Closest I come is to over-seed my landowners field with grain rye - without drilling it in, it is very hit or miss whether enough sprouts to make a difference. I hope that the best growth is really in the winter months to help the herd through a tough time.
All deer have a NATURAL food source. All deer breed. All deer need water. All deer bed down. All deer leave trails to and from their local food, water and bedding areas. Even big woods deer and deer on public land. So to answer your question DJ, I suppose people who don't have the desire or the time to learn what a deer's local, NATURAL food preference is; or where they bed down in a given area; or where they get their water, or where and when they are likely to breed.
There is not enough room in this little box to get into the baiting issues. Oh boy.
I'll pass.
But I am certainly with Terry and Dave on this.
I don't feel it is hunting in any way and would not ever do it (well maybe if my family was starving).
No way would i hunt over bait for deer.
Baiting is a big part in hunting in Jersey. Allot of ppl don't, but there is more that does. I bait sometimes in the 13 acres I hunt, just to help bring/keep deer around. I have hunted deer with out bait and I like doing it both ways. I don't care what weapon you use, or how you like to hunt as long as it is legal.... It's Kool with me.
Not legal in Vermont but who am I to judge what someone else's hunting place dictates to be successful. Mesquite flats are a lot different than a Sugar Maple ridge. So long as your area says it's hunting and lawfully allows it then do what fulfills you. I'll be out looking for a good place to build a blind.
If you hunt over an oak tree dropping acorns, you are hunting over bait,if you hunt next to a corn field, you are hunting over bait,if you hunt over a food plot you are hunting over bait,if you hunt over a water hole, you are hunting over bait,if you hunt next to an apple orchard you are hunting over bait.Do what is legal and have fun!
Danny
Danny....There is a difference between baiting and hunting over a food source. The examples you have just mentioned are all hunting over a food source whether natural or manmade.
There is also a difference between manmade food sources and baiting with bag of corn. The mandmade food sources such as cornfields and food plots are habitats that the deer population will utilize,live in and live around 12 months a year unlike the bag of corn. The ground is left fallow, then prepared, then disked, then planted, then plants grow into crops and sometimes the crops are harvested. Deer use this all year. That is not baiting that is hunting. And that is also the "narrow road" versus the "wide road" of pouring out yellow instant gratification.
Ok, I cant hold my tounge. Sorry and I will try and keep it civil. It is legal in Arkansas. The kids today are being trained to sit over a corn pile, I bet of gun hunters here 75-80% of the folks not hunting on our WMA's (its illegal there) are baiting. Wal mart is selling corn by the pallet, gas stations selling it. I know gun hunters and some bow hunters who wont sit a stand because they didnt get thier feeder filled the day before. Stands are being placed where they can see. and set up a feeder to bring the deer to them. Folks just are losing the ability to read sign and as Terry said, put the puzzle together. That to me is about 75% of a hunt. Its sad, but baiting is taking over here. The game and fish a couple years ago cut our bow season short by 2 weeks.. the reason.. deer were to reliant on bait and it was a slam dunk. So they cut our season. That sucks and is life. I hate baiting and what it has done to people. Sorry to you guys who do it, nothing personal. It just affects more folks than you reliase when deer are being pulled off one piece of ground to another by some one dumping large quanities of bait. I wish it had never been made legal here. sorry for the rant. I tried to hold it.. Thanks Dave
Not a bag full just 2 1/2 gallons! And it is not that much difference from growing crops. As long as you have the money, property, and equipment to grow it you have a distinct advantage. Kinda levels the playing field throwing out a little corn. It sure doesn't go to waste, and my disabled brother sure appreciates the extra help and confidence it gives him. Don't see to many food plots in his future.
So reach deep - really, really deep into your reserves of "determination" and go and find a natural "bait" before carrying a bag of carrots into a wood lot that is adjacent to a 400 acre bean field.
How EXACTLY does one go about hunting without at least determining where the local food source is? Sincerely- fill me in here. What's the procedure? Wake up the morning of opening day; carry a bag of carrots, a bow and arrows and tree stand into the woods and hunt?
Wow.
What Dave said!!
Dave-
Couldn't agree more with your last post. Baiting is ruining hunting in Northern WI and producing a whole generation of "hunters" who are learning that you don't need to scout or understand, just throw down the pile and wait for the shot. It is very sad-so sad that I may be forced to start hunting in MN as I don't know that I want to introduce my 2 boys to what hunting has become in WI just because of baiting.
Brady
I'm too lazy to bait. Like I'm gonna hump a bag of corn in the woods when I can just go scout and find an oak that's being hit.
I would rather "hunt" deer not trap them... Baiting has become a major problem in michigan...especially north of the farmlands....I have in the past bought a few bags of corn or apples to keep deer in an area up north while hunting...I had to crack up ..this year , i came across a guys tree stand on state ground that had a couple buckets of apples underneath it..the funny part was they hadnt been touched , but the acorns had all been shelled by deer and his stand was in a nice white oak......He was so in to baiting he had no idea that he was sitting in the best bait station of them all!
It just affects more folks than you reliase when deer are being pulled off one piece of ground to another by some one dumping large quanities of bait
Isn't this the same desired effect food plots create?
Personally I have hunted NEAR corn Fields, I have hunted IN apple trees, I have hunted in the forest where acorns fall, I have hunted NEAR wallows and Scrapes and water sources and Natural Funnels, Is that Baiting Absolutely not. Why because there is Still NO Guarantee that the animals you hunt will come near those things. However theres a chance. I think though, When Feeders are used and FOOD PILES are used you are changing those odds in YOUR favor. and then it no longer becomes hunting, It becomes WAITING! Because it's gonna happen,. ELECTRONIC FEEDERS ESPECIALLY. When those go off animals hear it; pavlovian response sets off and the animals WILL come.
Think of a dog when it hears the box his "treats" are in, or his bowl get filled with food, ...He comes, it's no different.
QuoteWhen those go off animals hear it; pavlovian response sets off and the animals WILL come.
It is illegal in NY to bait or even feed deer. At one point you could feed deer but the bait had to be removed 30 days before the area was hunted. It was during that time that i had one of those 5 gallon automatic feeders out just to help the deer out in the winter. I never really bothered to sit around the thing to watch the deer, I would just go and fill it every so often as to not let it run out of corn. Once in a while I would see deer on the way in and always squirrels. So one day in the early spring i decided to go in the woods early just to watch the feeder, it had a photo eye on it so it would go off about one half hour before sunset and one half hour after sunrise. I was sitting there waiting for the feeder to go off and i noticed movement on the ridge a couple hundred yards away, a few minuets later the feeder went off that is when I saw deer running down the logging road to the feeder, I just chuckled to myself because at that point they acted like pets. I'm glad that it is illegal to hunt over bait here because i like the challenge of finding what the deer are feeding on at the time of year I'm after them, and like Terry stated putting the puzzle together. But some time I would like to go to Texas and hunt over bait just to try it out. I see nothing wrong with it if it is legal and it works, some folks don't have the time to get out much so if it helps them get some meat, why not?
Never done it but here in Ohio in January I have considered a corn pile to get closer. I dont see a need for it till after the rut and the deer go back to bigger groups. I'm not against it but have never tried it.
I have tried using scents, tarsel glands and the like with limited success. The only thing that really worked was some mineral licks I set up a few years abck. I'm too lazy to drag all that stuff around the woods every year.
All you Michigan guys know the 2 1/2 gallon bait pile is a joke. They sell it in a huge bag and at least 1 bag and most times 2 or 3 are dumped at a time or 50 or more pounds of bait. They sell apple pulp here that guys buy by the 50 gallon drum and dump it. I bird hunt and roam the woods deer hunting a lot in the fall and I find many deer stands. Every one has a pile of bait under it. The things is for deer hunting, you don't need it if you put the time and effort into figuring out what's going on in the woods. Baiting takes the word hunting and turns it into simply shooting. You hunt for a good tree and dump a pile of bait 15 yards away and shoot a deer. If that's what you want out of bow hunting, that's up to you but if you want to shoot bigger bucks or at least see bigger bucks learn your area. Learn to hunt. And for those that say they like to see the other animals of the woods and that's why they put corn down, try a couple of bird feeders around your stand with sunflower seeds. You'll all get all kinds of action.
In Wi.baiting is legal,I'll put my camera on a pile of corn to see whats around, some deer come every day, some deer come after dark, some deer you'll see once a month after dark. The once a month after dark deer are the ones I would like to shoot and it's not going to happen at a corn pile.I'll sit a scrape or funnel. If someone wants to hunt that way I don't care as long as they do it by the book ( 2 gallons) and not a truck load.
Here in La. it is legal and I did it for many years. Then 5 years ago a couple of buddies and me hunted northern Missouri where it is illegal. Where you actually had to scout for food sources, bedding areas, and travel routes it made me realize how much I missed hunting the old way like I did when I was a kid. Since that trip i have gone back to hunting public land where it is illegal and where you have to scout and look for deer, I now kill less deer but it is a lot more satisfying when I do kill one because it makes me feel like I am hunting instead of just guarding a bait pile. Yes if it is legal I dont have a complaint for people who want to but for me it is much more fun to do it the old fashioned way.
not everything legal is ethical, and vice-versa
If anyone thinks that baiting deer means it is a slam dunk, then they have only seen it in an area where the deer are not used to it. Baiting DOES work, but it is far from a slam dunk. Especially on older age class deer.
It generates alot of money here in Michigan, and I imagine elsewhere as well. Many people here in Michigan make two trips to deer camp. One to put out bait, and then they go to hunt. Spending money the whole time.
It has its problems, and even the ones who swear by the practice can`t deny it. First off, it is biologically bad for deer. I could fill a page with these problems alone. Next in line, is the public perception. Many of us feel it is unethical, and MOST of the non-hunting public believes this also. "An unfair advantage", is the most common statement. In my opinion, this is the biggest problem that baiting causes.
Sadly, baiting has introduced an entire generation of hunters to the sport, where the ground floor knowledge of the whitetail was lost. Using bait to get deer at close range, instead of using your knowledge of the deer and their habits to pick a location. As we all know, figuring out where to go, through our knowledge of our beloved whitetail is at least half the fun. Without bait, many of the young hunters here where I live, don`t have a clue where to start.
I don`t believe baiting in unethical, because it is not much different from using another food source. I do believe the problems far outweigh the benefits. I have used bait before, and may do it again. But for the most part, I am fed up with buying the bait, hauling it out to the woods, only to get snorted at minutes before dark, by some big old doe who is intent on keeping my tags in my pocket.
I planted three food plots on the land I hunt. If I haven't been seeing deer in the woods I will sit over a food plot to see a few deer then go back to the woods. I could have shot a deer on the food plots this year but just watched them, I prefer to hunt the woods.
A food plot is a bait pile of sorts but not the same as throwing out a pile of corn in my opinion. You never know where the deer will come out on a plot, a bait pile will channel them to one location.
Interesting,, the guy asks how many do, and 70% of the replies don't answer the question at all just comment on the ethics of it..
No I don't, yes I have.
No
Yes
No, I do not hunt over bait. Have I yes and it is funny how it is even an issue, if it is legal and ya want to do it, that is fine. I have to disagree with Alex B. Alex you may think you have high ethical standards and others would disagree. Are they wrong, some would say hunters are obligated to do whatever is legal to insure they help control deer populations and baiting in some areas may be the only option that works, so that makes it unethical? Sorry, I meant to just stick to answering the question. Shawn
No
i prefer to see things in black and white because the world is becoming grayer by the day. too many things are getting lost in gray areas. that being said, to me any food source is a bait. i've heard and read all the arguments about hunting food plots, acorns, and feeders, but no reasoning can get around the fact that you are hunting over FOOD. deer will come to food, period. to answer the question, i set out feeders but rarely hunt over them. i set them out more for guests.
Early....that happens more than you know...specially on subjects like this...but we can't pull them all. Some of them you just gotta let ride :)
Good thread so far....please remember, don't make it personal by attacking others.
I understand a bit, least I've heard the many reasons/needs 'supplemental' feeding (baiting) is needed in TX.....but don't understand why other states that don't have these reasons/needs make baiting legal.
There's now a generation of folks that have no clue what a longbow will do, and have never even shot a trad bow.....and there's folks that have grown up hunting over bait and never put any of those hunter's puzzles together, and have no idea what fresh sign reveals to the hunter in relationship to the animal and its immediate environment.
Also, I disagree with an oak tree being bait just like hunting a feeder,....cause it aint the only one dropping in the woods, that would be like putting 300 feeders on one of the 200 acre woodlots I hunt, how am I going to know which one the deer are going to come to????
Nor do I agree a bean field/corn field is baiting as it covers a lot of acres and not a 30 yard circle.
Lets keep it civil, and keep it going...and we might learn something from each other, or understand each other a bit more than if we just throw rocks.
Terry,here in Michigan it's about money. Bait sold and tags sold. For a lot of guys, they gun hunt a few days at the begaining of the season at that's it. They buy a load of sugar beets a week before the season and dump them. Opening day they are in their deer shack, shoot a spike and go home happy. Without the bait that guy might not shoot anything, lose interest in hunting and not buy a tag the next year. The state loses out on the money. If they have less money coming in, taxes go up, companies leave the state, on and on. It's all about money. In the mean time, guys start thinking, well if so and so shot a deer over bait I might as well too. Can't be stopped at that point.
I have a few issues against baiting.
The first is an emotional one, a spiritual one, in that I wish to hunt wild animals, not those who have been conditioned. Once we modify their behavior through feeding (one of the oldest and most reliable methods) I feel that the animal is changed, and no longer the pure critter that I wish to pursue. That is just me.
Now that the nebulous, personal and most arguable reason is out of the way, we can proceed to the more logical and fact-based ones.
Baiting artificially concentrates populations of deer. More deer in closer proximity to one another spreads pathogens far faster than Nature intends. CWD and other nasty diseases are given freer rein to infect larger numbers of deer, resulting in more severe epidemics. The die-offs are the natural control of a population excess.
Baiting produces turf wars, as people bait over where they want to sit and hunt. If this is on public land, which is legal in some states, then others are effectively blocked from using that section. Even when nobody is occupying a stand, I am reluctant to use it. Just seems the polite thing to do. I have heard that there are territorial squabbles arising from bait pile establishment, some of which escalate into the nastiness that I go hunting to escape.
Supplemental feedings indicate that there are more critters than the habitat will support. There is no man made substitute for good habitat.
Killdeer
Baiting was just made legal this year where I hunt and haven't tried it so far. I hunted NJ for years and the biggest problem with baiting I saw was guys would become very protective of the areas they were baiting. A guy would put out a bucket of corn, hang a couple of stands and then explain to you how you couldn't hunt there because he has been baiting it. Ican't say I find it unethical as I've hunted bears over bait. I have problems with it on public land.
Baiting deer is legal in NC. I think if baiting is legal in your area, it should be up to you whether or not to bait. Is it the best way to kill a big buck? Probably not. I use corn mainly as a tool for trail camera census on the properties I hunt. Sometimes I take my 8 year old son and hunt near a feed station. I am lucky in that the land I hunt has some oaks, open areas that we plant for food plots and other great habitat. So we are able to use many different hunting tactics. However most hunting land here is now southern pine plantations that are, at certain ages, not the best habitat for deer. Deer eat a variety of foods, but I think pine cones may not rank very high on the list. If it weren't for baiting these hunters may not stick with it. It wouldn't affect me one way or the other. I know alot of folks want to outlaw baiting. They may or may not have a valid argument. I think its more of the mentality that if you're not hunting my way you must be doing it wrong. I'm sure the anti-hunters love to see hunters who advocate outlawing something to do with hunting. Every little bit helps, they say. I know when I'm sitting in the woods listening to the acorns drop, watching the squirrels play and hopelfully getting to see a deer or three, I'm not sitting there thinking about what other hunters are doing. Hows that saying go? United we stand, divided we fall. That applies to hunters, too.
David
this is my 6th or 7th year feeding/baiting/supplimenting,whatever you want to call it.YES,i have on occasion hunted over my feeders but generally just feed the deer&turkey on the farm.a nice place to sit and watch all the diferant animals and birds interact without having to kill something.a great stress reliever after a long week of work.
Bonebusters quote (and this is no slam on Bobebuster)
"Many people here in Michigan make two trips to deer camp. One to put out bait, and then they go to hunt."
Daggone man....that is sad. To know that there are folks who do that and have lost (or chosen to never obtain) a bit of woodsmanship just by taking those August/September strolls through the woods.
No I don't and will not do it.
But thats just me.
It is legal in Kansas. I don't bait; I HAVE considered it. The "puzzle" is a whole lot of fun, and I've got the time...
Terry's Texas example sheds some light on why baiting is getting popular here. When a NR hunter comes to Kansas to see BIG BUCKS (which are NOT behind every tree) the feeder makes it more likely that the outfitter will be able to show the client a lot of deer in the given time. In large areas of scattered cover, it may take quite awhile to have a deer pass within bow range...
Baiting (and reasons for it) differ widely from area to area. Same goes for running game with dogs. I try to hunt the way that brings me satisfaction.
I remember being hard headed about baiting. It was unethical and I wasn't gonna do it.....until I went to Texas for the 1st time about 25 years ago. Cory Mattson and I were NOT gonna "cheat" and use corn. After 3 days of everybody else in camp shooting up all of their arrows and Cory and I seeing NOTHING AT ALL, We decided to trickle some corn in a few places. Long story short, we both killed our 1st Javelina the next day.
Our lease in Florida has feeders and yes, we hunt 'em. Everyone who has come as a guest says "no way, I ain't huntin feeders" but by the time their trip is over, they've killed some stuff under a feeder.
Point is, there are places where the brush is so thick that you gotta lure em out of it somehow. Now if you're satisfied carrying a bow around and fawning over the scenery for a week in unfamiliar territory, GREAT.
Me? I love killing stuff with arrows!
Here's my conundrum. I had been hunting a farm which was sold. I had permission to hunt it the first few years until the new owner decided I was too successful and he and his friend and family got to be the only ones to hunt there. He put in a food plot, and feeders, and as RICO stated correctly, he was pulling deer in from other properties. The only way I could compete with him was with a little of my own corn. I rarely see bucks, but have killed two in 8 years, but do get to fill the freezer most years. The bait pile, like any other food source, becomes a nocturnal feeding area real fast if you are not successful early in the season. In fact, deer are often more alert at bait piles and harder to get shots at than when they are in a more natural feeding area. It may seem like a short cut to some, but mostly you will get younger deer and rarely a nice buck in daylight hours. My favorite places to hunt are wild apple trees, oaks and beech trees. In fact, when the acorns are dropping I have a favorite oak ridge that I frequent and was successful there last season. In addition, one place i hunt that abutts the farm I described is really suburban hunting....lots of houses nearby. In order to get deer in a place where they can be shot without offending property owners or outright tresspassing a small bait pile is the ticket. Those of you who eschew the baiting as being too easy probably have not done it much or live in an area with a high deer density and threrefore a lot of competition among the deer herd. Under such circumstances I doubt very much that baiting would be attractive to me.
Here in NH the deer density is not high but we have a very good and healthy deer herd. Baiting is legal but there are rules and a process to follow in order to do it. Last year the State legislature limited the number of baits anyone can have in the state to two and they have to be marked with the owners name and address even if it is on your own property. On another's property you need to have a a state issued permission slip and a detailed topo map of your bait site for the area CO and it is put on file. Baiting without following the rules is illegal.
For me baiting is just another legal tool I can use. Some seasons there is no need for it and in some situations, as I have said, a small bait pile solves other problems where small property lots are an issue but the herd needs to be hunted with the bonus that the deer are pretty much undisturbed.
My wife and I just bought 23 acres of forested wetland. Very few mast trees and too wet to really get equipment in and do food plots. We plan on planting roses, grapes, elderberries, apples, and whatever else the deer might eventually find palatable. In reality it is a form of baiting but some day someone will find it when we are gone and think they have found a natural honey hole.
No, I don't bait. Never have. Never will. Every definition of hunting that I'm aware of involves the idea of seeking out, finding the game one is after. With baiting, it's the other way around. The shooter puts out a pile of bait, and it doesn't much matter where, and the game/deer finds him/her. The words baiting and hunting do not belong in the same sentence. Baiting is a good way to kill deer, but it's not hunting.
For those who don't find that ethics should outweigh anything that's legal, I suggest you read Aldo Leopold's Sand County Almanac. It's because we still don't have a land ethic in this country (you'll have to read the book to find out what that is) that we're in the sad state of affairs we're in today.
....great example, Biggie
No I don't.
Several years ago when you could feed wildlife in Illinois (not within so many 100 yds. of hunting) my uncle had a feeder set up. I remember sitting in the woods one afternoon and a doe and fawn came down the trail. It was early in the season so I was going to give them a pass that day. Suddenly I heard the distant "whirr" of his feeder going off - so did the deer! That doe and fawn took off at a trot in the direction of the feeder. I don't know why but that experience soured me on the entire concept. It just didn't sit right.
I understand that its legal still in many states and to each his own. I, for one, am glad of the restrictions Illinois has because my 14yo son and I have hours of fun scouting in the fall and I'm happy to not have to explain to him why we can't just dump a pile of apples/corn and wait. I hunt on fields from time to time but never considered that baiting since getting a deer within 20yds on a 120 acre field isn't the same as getting one to you bait pile 5 yds from your treestand.
Let your conscience be your guide.
I have hunted a good bit over bait.. I've also watched trails, hunted scrapes, rub lines, still hunted far and wide.. I like it all.. I'm a horn hunter and I'll mention that hunting over corn is no guarantee, in fact, I'm sure the better bucks avoid bait in the daylight. Deer ain't dumb!
Gotta love that Biggie !!
Shawn...I believe, in general, the people we are referring to that are using bait are one's that say they are hunting, not killing to control the populaition. That is another issue all together.
In my opinion, the one's that sit over a feeding station of corn and kill animals are killers not bowhunters....
That is just an activity that people choose to do which involves shooting a animal with an arrow. But when they call themselves bowhunters..that is only ONE of the problems I have with baiting.
Baiting? No problem. To each their own.
Baiting given the same definition as hunting? Not hardly. Two entirely different activities.
I do. I don't make excuses and I don't really care what other people think of it. It's just one of the ways I like to hunt. BTW it is legal here and many times can require more effort than not using it. I get peeved when some guys judge others on the legal means in which they hunt.
I don't like baiting either. Setting up in a strategic position using natural feeding areas, is a lot different than dumping a pile of corn under your stand. this could stir up a whole nother hornets nest but we (traditional hunters) pride ourselves on "doing it the hard way". Why then would you take the easy way out when it comes to getting close to deer? The question should not be whether or not baiting is an ethical way to hunt using stickbow, compound or gun, but whether or not we (traditionalists) should bait. I don't think baiting and traditional archery go together. just my two cents.
There is no difference in putting out corn in a pile or growing it. If you put it out all year how can it be any different? Everyone has there thing. I do not hunt over a feeder or pile of corn, but I will hunt over acorns, muscadines, persimmons, you get the picture. Fact is as hunters and people we need to stop looking down our noses at each other. PETA does a good enough job of badmouthing. If it is legal and it make you happy, do it. And buy the way, never say you will never ever do something, it will come back and bite you!
I don't hunt over bait here in California. I don't think we can, legally, but I have to check my regs to be sure...I hunted over feeders for the first time this year in Texas, at the Solana Ranch. I came home with tag soup. Easy? Slam Dunk? It wasn't in Texas. Can't speak for the rest of the places as I haven't hunted there.
My beef with baiting is the whole commercial aspect of the hunting shows on TV. Go to the store, buy a bag of whatever, and pile it out and watch the BIG BUCKS come in. Then shoot one. That is what is spoiling our kids, 'cuase our adults our buying into that and that's what's getting passed on! I hunted the same 3000 acre piece out here for almost 20 years. We puzzled out those blacktails, wore leather off our boots and fat off our bodies, and killed our fair share of nice animals. We lost access when my auntie sold, and now I'm doing the same thing on new properties. One thing I saw, on a shared lease, about 4000 acres, with great bucks on it, was a father and his two overwieght sons, doing laps on the road in his F250. Every time the wife and I walked out of our sets back to the truck this guy would pull up and groan about not seeing animals. If he could've bought a bag of whatever and piled out somewhere, he would've, so his sons wouldn't have had to walk to find where the deer were. It's sad.
Hell, man its an industry now...come here deer ,c mere deer , acorn rage, you name it , hunters buy them, and buy the bags and bottles full...Id rather see a good shot placement if this helps, but Im not crazy about it , but then again Im not crazy about 50, 70 yard bow shots and most mechanical broadheads...I guess Im somewhere in the middle...this thread makes you think, its a good one. thanks..Marco#78
It is really encouraging to see so many trad bowhunters opposed to the practice of baiting. It makes sense that bowhunters, and especially trad bowhunters would have a higher ethical standard than most, regardless of what the laws are. The Wisconsin Traditional Archers have gone on record in support of a statewide baiting and feeding ban as it has become such a huge problem in WI. Baiting and feeding violations have lead in the frequency of violations the last 3 years in a row here, and continue to climb. Otto mentioned above that he is too lazy to bait as he wouldn't want to be hauling bait around the woods-unfortunately, very few in our area carry the bait-they put it on a 4 wheeler and then travel illegally through the woods to dump it.
Brady
T,, I agree and don't want you to pull them, It did redirect things for a while.. I fish with bait, so I guess hunting over bait, attractants calls etc is not much different.. You still need to do your home work,, Doubtful a corn pile in the Wall Mart parking lot is going to attract many critters. On the other hand, a little corn or alfalfa can distract a critter long enough for a clean and calm shot. Back before CWD and the state ban on hunting over bait, I would use a bit of alfalfa on a trail under an existing stand .. After a while, fawns would come on a run, does would follow and stop for a bit, Older bucks would grab a mouthful if they stepped in it and keep on moving. I don't think any of it caused any travel changes but did occupy their thoughts for a bit.. As it was I never did kill a deer over any of it, I did get to observe some things I would not have had oppurtunity too.
I think it would be interesting to see if there was a correlation to a hunters:age, experience, fitness level, and time hunting traditional to his feelings about baiting. When I was in my 20's I prided myself in getting back in the swamps, finding the buck sign and hunting it. Now I'm in my mid-50"s, had 10 surgeries, and just can't do it anymore. I also hunt with a disabled brother. We use bait to help see more deer. We do use the legal amount and spend some time figuring the best sign, wind direction, etc. Distance to the stand IS a big factor. How WE hunt has changed with how we CAN hunt. Maybe we should just quit and buy trail cameras?
Some "food for thought"(pun intended).
How many of us would go shoot a steer at the food trough and call it hunting? Perhaps some, but I think not many. Seems every argument for baiting starts out with "I wasn't going to do it, BUT". What's the old saying "Every thing before the 'but' is B.S.?" I guess that is one of my points about things a person can learn about themselves in the woods while hunting that they can't learn anywhere else. I think Killdeer nailed it for me. I don't think it's a good idea in the long run for "hunting" or the hunted. I think most Americans are in favor of fair chase hunting but frown on high fences and baiting. I raise the question what if "it" gets to be the norm, and get to be used as an arguement in the future by the anti's that hunting has become little more than inhumane slaugther at a feed trough. How do we as hunters deny it?
Historically it was hunters who demanded that game laws be passed and enforced, and it was hunters who policed themselves. Ironically it was hunters who brought game back.
When I was a boy if someone actually saw a deer, it was news worthy. If some one killed a deer the whole town came to see it. There weren't but a handful of places where deer were found in GA. The mountains, Lake Russell, and the swamps and coastal GA. Thankfully it isn't like that here now.
It used to be that parents would side with the law if their kid did something wrong..Now(?). I do think a lot gets lost in the grey area now. I guess it's something we all have to search our conscience about and decide for ourselves, but lets not lose sight of the future consequences.
I was brought up by a man who would frown on it and I guess that's why I would not do it.
Dad, if you're listening "Thank you for what you tried to teach me".
I'll get off the soap box now, but thanks for letting me share. I'll just say that the fact that we are rationalizing to justify it indicates to me that deep down on some level it doesn't quite ring true to us as being ok.
I like Terry Green's quote of Andy Garcia;
"It's important, when going after a goal,to never lose sight of the integrity of the journey."
Your mileage may vary,
Respectfully,
Bill
It is legal here in New Jersey, but choose not to.
I have been lucky enough to have a place where I can roam a little here in New Jerey...But not everyone here has that luxary.
We have a very different dynamic here in New Jersey. We are the most densly populated state in the country, hunting land is very hard to come by in this State.
I can't tell you how many people I know that hunt 10 acre pieces of land or smaller.
Can you imagine sitting in someones backyard in a tree stand in a residential neighborhood watching 30 deer feed down the driveway 50 yards away on the neighbors shrubs? Where you can actually see the home-owner making coffee through their kitchen window in morning while you are hunting? That is exactly how a lot of people have to hunt around here.
You can say just go out there and scout and better your skills or that is not hunting;
But until you are in the situation where all you have is a 5 acre piece land to hunt, and your extremely happy to have it because there is nothing else, broad sweeping statements like "unethical" or "not hunting" really isn't fair. For many people here baiting is almost a necessity.
I'm glad I'm not in that situation.
QuoteOriginally posted by Shawn Leonard:
No, I do not hunt over bait. Have I yes and it is funny how it is even an issue, if it is legal and ya want to do it, that is fine. I have to disagree with Alex B. Alex you may think you have high ethical standards and others would disagree. Are they wrong, some would say hunters are obligated to do whatever is legal to insure they help control deer populations and baiting in some areas may be the only option that works, so that makes it unethical? Sorry, I meant to just stick to answering the question. Shawn
Shawn, you forgot about the "vice-versa" part. And, I certainly do not put myself on some sort of self-righteous ethical pedestal, either. Anyway, to answer the question, I do not :) :campfire:
JimE.III, I see your point, I'm blessed too. I know there are circumstances where it might have to be and don't mean to argue that point. the more it is done the more the necessity of doing it will become a factor for us all.
Baitin' ain't huntin' ; to me it's a lot like chumin' and fishin'...there is a huge difference ! In Colorado "both" are illegal. Any animal taken while baiting shouldn't even be considered for the trophy books.Baiting just gives the "antis" another reason to further their cause.So called hunting in fenced in areas should fall in to the same category.
My favorite bait is a good library book. Seems the more engrossed in a novel I am while in a treestand the more determined those damned deer are to interrupt me with their presence.
No - I just don't see how you can call it hunting. There is not one hunting skill involved except for shooting. Do it if you like but do you really feel that you are hunting? Hunting includes alot of wood skills and hard work. I don't think that you experiance that by throwing a bucket of corn out and sitting there waiting to kill the deer as they come to the bait. More like fishing.
I bait and hunt over water ( same thing ) I will also throw a little corn on a trail that I'm watching to get the deer to stop. I find it funny how many folks bash us Texans as if we could care at all what folks think about anything we do.
As stated before here in NJ baiting is legal but I don't do it, I don't consider it "hunting" either do I consider a tree stand as hunting but that's just me and I don't hold any animosity over the people that do, you "hunt" the way you want I'll hunt the way which is right for me and life goes on.
Gene
Illegal in Iowa although many do it. I never have nor will I ever use man positioned bait. Do I hunt near corn fields,oak trees,etc., you bet !!!! To try and equate a 100-1000 corn field with a pile of man placed bait is absurd and an attempt to rationalize your behavior !
Having said that, if it's legal where you want to hunt and you wish / need to do it, then go for it!
Bigge,
It's more important to me How I hunt then to take game. I would not compromise my ethics just to take game. However, as I said before, If it's legal and you want to do it, that's your right !If I can't be sucessful my way, then I'll go home
empty handed .
The bottom line its about pulling and holding deer into an area that they wouldn't normaly be if that means pulling deer from areas you don't have access to hunt all the better.
Ethicaly really has nothing to do with legal so is it ethical to bait where it is not legal? I know it is illegal would it still be an ethical choice?
Do I hunt over bait? No.And no it is not legal in Nebraska. I believe this is a recent change in the past few years.Earl E. may be able to varify that. I used to place salt blocks out on my property for the deer to use but I never hunted over them. Now I believe they are cosidered baiting also.I have planted about 50 apple trees and even more oaks on our place.Some may consider that baiting. I see it as habitat improvement.I donot carry grain or any other food in with me. I hunt from the ground from natural blinds and may hunt a different spot every time out.Don't see that baiting would be any advantage to my style of hunting.I don't call or rattle either. I know it works for others but I prefer to sit quietly near a trail and hunt an animal that is moving from feeding to bedding areas or the opposite and not draw any attention to me.When it was legal here, a friend would pick up the windfall apples out of my yard to use in his hunting area.Personally I am glad that it is no longer legal here and hope it stays that way.Just my opinion.
Ed :campfire:
This thread is like bait.
I keep coming back to it even though I know someone is lurking about.
QuoteOriginally posted by Otto:
This thread is like bait.
I keep coming back to it even though I know someone is lurking about.
yessir, I would consider that "baiting" as well!!! :bigsmyl:
To each their own....I live in the dreaded "Texas" and have hunted baited areas and over bait myself. It would be nice if it was as easy as some think it is......
But, in reality, just because it is legal doesn't mean we all do it....the biggest deer I have killed have been while I was wearing my ghilli suit or leafy suit (kinda hot here most of the time :rolleyes: ) while watching well traveled trails....
So even tho it is legal and available to a hunter to "bait" doesn't mean that he is "less" of a hunter and has to move to another state so his children can "learn to hunt" the right way...
These threads :( .......never mind.... :campfire: :archer:
I grew up with bait. The bait isn't as much of an issue with me as what it turns most folks into. I still put out a couple of bags each season, but hunt more without it. I like the freedom to hunt on my own terms. I personally think hunting turkey's over bait would be more fair chase than from a Double Bull. I go to other states and count coupe on deer day in and day out. Even if I hunted deer exclusively over bait back home, it's a rare day that I get a shot. I enjoy so many aspects of hunting and doing it so many ways. It isn't as black and white as some would like it to be.
QuoteOriginally posted by Duckbutt:
I grew up with bait. The bait isn't as much of an issue with me as what it turns most folks into. I still put out a couple of bags each season, but hunt more without it. I like the freedom to hunt on my own terms. I personally think hunting turkey's over bait would be more fair chase than from a Double Bull. I go to other states and count coupe on deer day in and day out. Even if I hunted deer exclusively over bait back home, it's a rare day that I get a shot. I enjoy so many aspects of hunting and doing it so many ways. It isn't as black and white as some would like it to be.
Well said......I can tell you hunt the lowcountry.
White Oak.. Yes a few years ago with the CWD thing moving into the state, they banned hunting within 200 yards of a bait..The theory was to not increase the close interaction of deer.. That doesn't mean you can't put out bait for cameras or in your back yard for observing etc,, you just can't hunt within 200 yards of it.. Check the reg's there is more, but since I don't bait.. I don't get too concerned about it either.. I think an areas is considered baited for 60 days after the bait is removed.
Yes, I hunt deer over bait. I also hunt deer in the oaks and on their way to a bean/corn field.
Having said that, I would NEVER hunt anything after it was chased up a tree by a dog. That's not hunting, that's just shooting.
Lenny
no i don't, never will, it is not for me. Killdeer said it well, her words are strong and i feel the same way.
Thanks for the info Earl. I never thought about CWD. :banghead: I quess you are supposed to read that big game brochure. With our combined seasons getting longer every year (Sept 15 -Jan. 15) I couldn't understand a restriction.
I just wonder who decided that a group of deer in front of a camera were less likely to contact CWD than those under a tree stand.
Take care,
Ed :campfire:
My 2cnts... maybe 3: Taking a young doe off a pile of corn with a stickbow or even compound for that matter has far more "hunting" involved than taking the rut-crazed dominant buck down in a cornfield from 250 yards with a rifle. I would respect the former far above the latter. You still have to hide your scent, hide your movement, silently draw, aim, and follow through. Unless the baiting is a year-long over-the-top operation (a la texas fence hunting), it is far from a guarantee anyway. Deer (especially mature deer) don't suddenly lose all their instincts at the site of yellow piles. To me it seems a moderate amount of baiting could be regulated and still be no less "unethical" than long-range killing.
Laws can have many reasons, but from an ethics perspective, it seems rediculous to look upon the rifle shot as being more "okay" than the baited bow shot. I don't see why bait hunting should be banned for the sake of ethics. It can be banned for other reasons (low deer population, spread of disease, difficulty to regulate, border war problems, etc), but the ethics of it seem irrelevent to me. Given a high deer population, if someone wants to shoot a deer over bait, more power to them. If they want to feel more reward from the experience, they can hunt more conventionally. It should be their perogative just as it is their perogative to pick up a rifle one day a year or jump into a trad lifestyle that demands almost daily attention.
Its all a matter of what YOU want to get out of it for yourself. It seems to me that I should care less about comparing my rewarding experience against another guys rewarding experience... and certainly not care about comparing numbers or score.
There are exceptions, but I think the argument is more often spurred from those that are worried about trophy comparison than those with legitimate ethics concerns. Otherwise we would see more posts debating whether rifle hunting is fair-chase and whether we should condone it or worry about its impact on our public image as hunters. For the trophy scorekeeper, there are clear lines carefully drawn seperating gun-kill and bow-kill. But there are no astericks for bait kill, hence the argument. I think the "trophy-above-all-else" mentality has more negative impact on our public image than baiting ever will.
Just my humble opinion, but I believe this horse has been beat to death. If it's legal and you can sleep at night, then to each his own.
God Bless.
I do not bait but that is only cause I cannot stay still long enough!!, I am like a dog (Gene's article) they say I like to know what is over the next ridge.
Do I care if someone baits, do I think less of them NOPE. Too many of these same hunters that look down their noses at baiting deer will go to Canada on a bear hunt and sit over doghnuts, or Mountin lion/bear hunting with dogs to shoot them out of a treetop (definatly not hunting in my book ride around in truck-cut track-turn dogs loose snowmobile to tree-shoot said cat.????) DO I think less of them? no I just do not care for that style of hunting but would shake the mans hand for a good shot. I just will not shoot one like that, so I guess I will never kill a mountain lion? fine.
Biggie said it best,
J
Why do they have to use bait in Canada to kill a bear??? too thick I guess, or if it is like around here they are ghosts that I hunt every year and fail to kill, cause I cant use baits. Oh well, still wouldn't if I could-gonna catch one right slippin the fire trails one season.
In my area it is only legal on private land-Illegal on WMAs and public land. thought I would throw that in.
If it is legal-then go for it!
J
Great thread Yall, love the different perspectives.
Nope, (not legal in MO)and as long as I've got a decent sized hunting area without too much pressure,I won't. I like to hunt mature bucks,only need about 1 deer per season anymore(not often a buck). My best bucks have been taken when I hunted a spot,tree or ground, for the first time of the season,every time!! Every trip in with bait or huntin the same stand lowers the chances of "ME" gettin what "I" want done. To each his own,as long as its legal. Good thread and responses guys,and civil to boot! :thumbsup:
legal here and i do it but havent had any luck asvfar as taking a deer goes so its more like supplemental feeding.-Scott
OK, I'll jump in. But here's my spin. If your modifying your behavior, that is learning the animals movements and trying to intercept them, your hunting. If your modifying their behavior by providing mineral, salt, water, bait piles, or even food plots, your only fooling yourself into thinking your hunting.
I've heard several arguments trying to differentiate between hunting over plots/oaks compared to hunting over bait. I just don't buy hunting over a large plots or the number of oaks dropping doesn't make this hunting over bait. Sorry. On any plot, deer are not likely to come out to feed at random locations. Deer will come out on known trails and this is where a stand should be placed, hence hunting over bait. As to oaks, I've seen over the years that not all oaks are equal. Some must be sweeter than others because I've seen deer walk through a stand of dropping oaks to feed under one tree. Yes, I've killed several deer under similar oaks. Also the trail scenario is still the same. Deer usually feed along certain trails and this is where stands should be placed. Here again, hunting over a baited trail. Now I will agree that it does take a hunters skill to figure out if these trails or morning or afternoon trails. Also it takes skill to figure out what time the trail is used (not using a trail cam). As to deer coming to the sound of a feeder, I've seen deer come trotting at the sound of acorns hitting the ground. To me it boils down to what ever works for you, works for me.
I would argue that gun hunting without bait would be much more challenging than stickbow hunting with it in pressured areas being that there will be much more pressure during gun than bow seasons. I would respect a gun hunter who consistently kills nice deer without bait, much more than a bowshooter who consistently shoots nice deer over bait.
BCD
I just returned from a hunting trip to my friends ranch in Texas. He has blinds set up with corn feeders. He planted 6 food plots, and has a couple of protein feeders. I hunted by a couple of the feeders, and when they went off the deer didn't come a running.... They hit them mostly after dark. I must say this, the deer we took all had a little fat on them. and they tasted Great... This was my first time hunting in Texas and by bait. One nice thing is the deer sure eat well at his place.......The way I see it, If it's legal you make the call. If it's not, I'll make a call......
Hunt and Enjoy Life..........DesertDude
I started the season off baiting with corn and apples and actually had to pass up shots several times because there were to many deer around the bait. To big of a chance poorly hitting a second one on a pass-through! I quit baiting about 2 weeks before rifle season opened and all the local deer moved out of the area to find easier food sources - 14 deer at my blind while baiting, not one 2 weeks after I quit.
After rifle I still hunted parts of the property that I hadn't tried previous seasons and saw plenty more deer than I had at the bait pile and also found much better locations to set up.
You'll see more deer when you go looking for them instead of waiting for them to come to you, I'm finished with the baiting.
not legal here in MA and even if it was I probably wouldn't do it....simply because it doesn't feel like 'hunting' to me...same reason I don't hunt with a compound...fish with dynamite, etc....
I don't buy the argument that hunting over a NATURAL food source is equivalent to baiting. hunting food plots/agri-fields isn't the exact same as a natural food source...but the last I checked you can't program a corn field to 'Turn On' a half hour before sunset!
here in NB we can bait and if you want to see game and be able to learn from it just put a few apples 30 ft from where you are in a tree .they can hear you un nock an arrow at 50 ft from nocks that have been ground larger !!!!!!!
sure gives you exercise visiting baits evrey day , i put a pail of apples at each bait if they are gone and less if they aren't eating many .
here in NB they don't take to corn the squirrels and birds do .fed 50 lbs corn and 500 lbs apples , that being said i i filled my tag on a large doe at 70 yds with the '06 ,next year more stands and yes i will be using apples --- herb
White Oak from Nebraska says baiting is not legal in NEB.
Herb Haines from Neb. says it is legal to bait in Neb.
So which of these guys is right? One of them hunts legaly and the other is hunting illegaly .
Which one is right?
(I don't hunt Ne., but I'm curious)
Stephen,I think Herb is in New Brunswick....
You live near Shaun?
Ia...herb is in new brunswick canada not nebraska.
Labs, The same could be said of hunting with dogs. "Oh God I have to flush my own Birds" "Who's going to get the birds I shot" Just because a person hunts with a Wheel bow doesn't make him less of a hunter...JMO
DesertDude...........
I don't. Not legal in VA. Not saying I never would. It's hard to make sweeping statements that apply to every person and situation. Baiting certainly has it's downsides to it, CWD and poor PR being the two biggest. I can conceive of several situations where I would consider it to be a valid tactic. It's hard for me, with my good health, able body, thousands of acres at my disposal (public and private), and a fondness for roving to judge the motives and methods of others. After this let's discuss if we should be driving Fords, Chevys, or Toyotas to our hunting grounds. :)
At my place I keep my feeders filled to help get them thru the winter.Also is a great way to inventory who made it thru the hunting season when you set a game camera on the feeders.I can tell you that hunting over a feeder is not a sure thing.My last 2 bucks(10/12/pointers)were harvested no where near the feeders.
Michigan is alledged to have more than 250,000 bowhunters. I often wonder just how many would continue to bowhunt if compounds and baiting were outlawed. Ten percent? Twenty Percent? Thirty percent? WHY do you suppose so many would jump ship?
I wonder how long you would have a bow season after they were gone
to me it seems alot of the anti bait folks are just petty people. Sort of like when someone kills a good buck and they say " well I didn't kill a deer again this year BUT that guy hunted over bait or used a compound or maybe his deer doesn't mean as much as mine "he use carbon arrows". We are all just a bunch of big kids playing in the woods. What ever brings you the most pleasure is ok by me. If you want to shoot a deer from a tree stand with the latest greatest Camo or run around the hills with a self bow and a wool blanket tied around your head. I'm all for what every makes you happy.
Baiting done right is a very useful tool, to be used to studying any game/NON-game animal.
Baiting done the wrong way and you can spread sickness like Blue Tongue & CWD to just name a few.
As some have said: Baiting isn't a gimme. knowing what trail a deer is using before the trail cams came out meant work in the woods.
Why is it; the Biggest enemy to hunters .....IS HUNTERS. Think about this... NON-baiter's fight with those that bait. Gun hunters (only) fight with bowhunters because bowhunters get to hunt the RUT ( in some ares where the RUT is in the middle of Bow only season ).
Why is it all about ONE hunter? We are all human, We all Earthlings & No matter what anyone says... We are all Hunters, since the dawn of Time mankind has been & always will hunt.
Some ppl need to bait because of Health reasons, they can't go to deep in the big woods, by themselves.
Hunt Your way... Not the way others want you to hunt...If Your way is to use bait & it's legal, Do it.... If it is legal in Your State & You don't like to Bait.... Don't bait.
Baiting is like Compound, Recurve or long bow. One or all of these bows, aren't for everyone. You have the Choice to pick how you hunt & what you hunt with.
*For any Anti-hunter lurking*
You Hunt for deals, Jobs, Spouse, Location for a home. You where born with Your eyes in front of Your Face... You are a Hunter.
You got it Buff, many would stay at home sitting on the couch drinking more beer, watching TV hunting shows and that goes for the gun hunters too. It would be to much effort to hunt deer without an ATV and bait, more like work and god knows the union............oh never mind.
In the end it's all about the money the state brings in for schools, roads, welfare, and whatever else. Successful hunters spend money from new bows and arrows to treestands, bait, and jerky. Spending money makes the world go round and honestly, the U.P. of Michigan would be in big trouble without hunting. I have nothing against guys that want to shoot deer that way, it's legal and that's fine. But when you come up to a bait pile 2 feet high and 8 foot around I think slob hunter. Next fall I'll start a bait pile thread with pic's of all the ones I find in the field.
Well....it was fun while it lasted... ;)