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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: geno on January 16, 2008, 09:33:00 PM
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There was a post a couple of days ago on this subject and now I cant find it.After picking up the new TB today and skiming DR Eds pages I see I am building the weakest arras around.Does anyone carry a Steel insert for the 2018. All I can find is aluminum. I have glue on bh, a steel screw in adapter( have been using aluminum) and I am looking for a steel glue in insert.. I am making arras for hog hunt at shiloh next month. thanks
G
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I haven't seen any heavier inserts for aluminum arrows.I don't believe they can handle the high FOC that you can get with carbon arrows.With wood and aluminum I like to have 8-12% FOC,but with carbon I shoot 16-24% FOC.You can use heavier points or modify the insert so you can add on the screw on insert weights that is used in carbon arrows.Will your aluminum arrow still be in tune if you load up the front with more weight.
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I am sure I read somewhere that the 100 grain brass inserts for 5/16 th carbon arrows fit into 20/18's . If they are slightly oversize it would be a simple matter to turn them down using a drill and a file . Add some 125 gr steel incerts and you would be in business - spine permitting . regards Jacko
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Do they make a glue in adapter (Steel) that you can glue one side into your shaft(2018) and glue a point on the other?
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By weakest arrows I take you mean lite. How much wt are you looking to add? What do you use now?
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I'm not questioning Doc Ashby's work, but I was wondering what is the difference really between an aluminum adapter in a aluminum arrow vs. a steel one? Wouldn't they still be glued into a aluminum arrow, by that I mean this, the steel would obviously harder than the arrow material and prone to breaking in the same spot as the aluminum insert would. I'll take his word on breaking a aluminum insert, I've shot more than my fair share into hard substances, cement walls behind target, rock under squirrel, rocks in general, and I've never broke a insert, have bent them though. It seems the weak spot would still be the weak spot, regardless of the insert type. Now, if you'd overlap the end of the shaft to reinforce the weak area, then that'd be a very stiff end to work with. I may be wrong, and I'm certainly not questioning his findings. This is just my observation on it.
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3 rivers used to carry brass inserts for aluminum arrows but last time I was on their website they didn't have them. I have been trying to find some myself.
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By weakest I meant breaking point. The Dr suggested never using aluminum inserts. The bending was the problem because it destroys your penetration. As far as putting something on the outside, that would make the arrow wider than the ferule on your BH and that is not a good thing either. When these arrows are gone I think I will go back to wood..Maybe lam birch. The steel adapter is not much stronger but it helps a little.
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Geno,
I have melted lead into the insert to increase your FOC.
Or you can mix up epoxy and lead shot and get a similar result.
I do agree that the screw in BH is the weakest part of the arrow.
Bob
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Interesting question. I use inserts that I bought from an **** seller listing them as "carbon" inserts although they could just be a hard a polymer. I dunno. Anyway when I hit a non-forgiving surface like a steel pole support for my target stand head on, they don't break. The walls of the shaft expand and the inserts are pushed in a bit. Perhaps the rims of these inserts flex and allow this to happen, again I dunno because the rims are not sheared off when I examined them. I am in bgrams camp on this and will foot my 2018's for the next year's hunt. I don't think the ferules on my STOS BH's will be wider than the 2314's or 2413's I'll try footing. In any event, I certainly wouldn't recommend these inserts to anyone. I wanted to try minimize too much FOC when using 200+ BH's up front such as the STOS and El Grande Grizzlies with steel screw-in's thats all.
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Footing the end of the shaft I don't think will make it that wider. From what I've seen of some of the steel broadhead adapters and broadheads, they are slightly larger than a 5/16" shaft, so adding another thin piece of aluminum on top in my thoughts shouldn't hinder it as much as having it plain and chancing the breaking behind the ferrule. I mean, they sell 23/64" shafts, do the broadhead adapters and broadheads not fit these also?
Isn't the broad head blades wider than the ferrule, once it's past the end of the blades, it's up to momentum and force anyway. The only logical thing I can see that would help you is skinny carbons with the small diameter shafts to reduce the friction.
I'm all for getting the most out of an arrow, but, it comes down to what I shoot the best for me. I've been using small carbons front loaded heavy for FOC, and I like the way they shoot and respond. Under any stress an arrow will break, one way or the other. Even an arrow striking a hard object or shoulder bone can break with a steel insert. Steel is still harder than any arrow we shoot, if the broadhead buries itself up and the arrow is still flexing around it, it still has a good chance to snap off and break. More likely with aluminum than steel? Yes, I'll concede that. But I've never had it happen with aluminum or carbon arrows, I've always had the insert shoved back into the ferrule. Structural integerity is important, do not get me wrong, but, I belive tuning of the equipment is more of a affecting influence than the makeup of the insert is. That's just me though. However, if I were to go after larger game than what is native to North America, then I would concern myself with the front end, and probably reinforce it then.
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Well I guess I am going to go with an alunimum insert. steel adapter and 2 blade zwickey Bh. I checked the weight on a little hanging scale and it comes to 635g. that is 12.5 at my draw weight(sound a little heavy ? ) It has an foc of 16.5%if I did my math right. Thanks for the replys Guys
Geno
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I just use the aluminum insert (40 gr) and 125 gr steel adaptor plus 125 gr broadhead. This give me a total of 290 gr up front. I have had some aluminum adptors bend, but not the steel ones. Short of footing the shaft, I don't think there would be much difference (from a strength standpoint)in a brass or aluminum insert because I think the shaft will split before the insert. You could say that I have unintentionally tested this theory in the field.