I view myself as a modern traditionalist. I like to use technology to improve the performance from my equipment. I hunt with a black widow PSA III recurve and did a 6 month performance test in our 2007-08 hunting season and would like to pass on my findings.
The past few season's my arrow setup had been a 2016 aluminum with a 140 grain magnus two blade solid head. I wanted to go to carbon arrows as they fly with much more consistency from my bow, but the light weight of them has always prevented me from doing it. 20 years of bowhunting experience has shown me that a heavier arrow is better for penetration purposes. I do realize that most will consider my old setup as light to begin with but I am always tinkering with things. In trying to improve my penetration with lighter arrows what could I do to get around this. I knew that the large magnus head was hindering my penetration as well but it gave me the needed extra weight that was essential.
I thought what if I bought some smaller diameter and lighter heads and added weight to them to get them up to the 140 or so grains that the old magnus two blade heads gave me. So I bought some magnus four blade stingers at 100 grains to attatch to the end of my new 5575 gold tip carbon arrows. The main blade is much smaller in diameter which would improve some on pentration but know I needed a way to increase the weight. After searching the internet for ways to add weight to arrows, I found brass inserts at 3 rivers archery that weighed in at 50 or 100 grains each. Now for those of you that aren't aware, the aluminum inserts that come with all shafts are from around 10-15 grains. I bought both and found I liked to 50 grain inserts. I was now at a combined weight of 150 grains on my broadhead.
Field testing report – With our Kentucky hunting season winding down I have currently taken a buck on opening day and 6 does to date. The farthest shot was the buck at 23 steps and I have to say this setup is very very good. The carbon arrows have given me straighter flight and much more consistent groups. Combining a straighter flying arrow with the smaller diameter heads, I have noticed better penetration and much better blood trails from the four blades opening up wider entrance and exit holes. Note: these bleeder blades are very small.
I realize some of you out there have done this in the past and there may be numerous threads on the subject already, but I hope some of you modern traditionalists can benefit from my findings. At the very least it may give you something to do this cold harsh winter in your basement.
Very interesting read. Thanks.
I will be determining a new arrow/head combo for my longbow this winter, and was thinking of going to carbons, with anywhere from 125 to 150 up front, and weight tubes if I wanted even more overall weight.
I'm heading the other direction myself....Woodies, wild turkey feathers, and maybe even some hand napped primitive points before it's all said and done....I Got all the high tech stuff out of my system pretty much....But it was fun for quite a few years there.....
Have fun bro! The person with the most smile lines when it comes time to cash in your chips wins!.....Sounds like your having a ball to me...Go get em' my friend! WaaaaaaHooooo!
Kirk
A "Moder Traditionalist"???? an interesting title there...kind of like a diet where you still eat the pie, but hold off on the ice cream?
I bought 24 large Ben Pearson Deadheads umpteen years ago.Glue on type???Anyhow me and this other guy were weighing them up one day.And I noted several of the Pearsons out weighed several other Pearsons of the same era and size.I looked in the ferrule and guess what?Ya,there were from 1 to 7 shot gun pellets in the end of the ferrules.They looked like around number 9-11 bird shot to me.But As I recall the 7 added sometging like 25 grains to the very end of the broadhead.Kind of interesting anyhow,,bd
KentuckyTJ:
Pardon me for asking the obvious question, but if you were shooting GTs anyway, why didn't you just add a couple 20 grain weights or a single 50 grain weight to the back of the insert, rather than searching the internet to find ways to add weight to compensate for the lighter broadhead? Isn't the ability to add or reduce weight to GTs via the weight adaptor "system" what sets GTs apart from all the other carbon arrows out there? I mean, I can appreciate the neeed to change the INSERT weight on Carbon Express or Beman shafts which do not accept weight adaptors, but why did you go this route using the GT system?
I was able to shoot the same hunting arrow from two different bows by simply adding (or subtracting) weight to the front end of the GT shaft.
Sounds like you found what your bow really likes.I'm a pretty big fan of the brass inserts but I shoot the 100 grain one in my goldtips 35/55 along with a 4 blade 125 gr head......I've shot them with everything from 125gr 4 blades up to big 170 grain 2 blades without any flight problems.....
Labs, I actually came to my final grain conclusion by using the screw in weights. I would have had to use the screw in the insert adapter then a 50 grain weight. In the end I liked the idea of having one solid piece instead of the three screwed together pieces in each of my arrows.
If I shot these arrows out of another bow I definitely would have utilized the screw in weights.
I can appreciate your desire to have one solid weight up front as opposed to several smaller weights all screwed together. I was a bit apprehensive about using the srew in weights too.
So far though, no negative consequences.
Remember... Magnus makes a 150 grain Stinger.
myself I use the 35/55 goldtips, 100 gr brass insert,125 gr magnus 2 blade or starting this year 3 blade wensel woodsman, excellent arrow flight out of my predator recurve and about 50# at my 27 in draw. Easy to assemble,durable,cheap, and i figure those small shafts penetrate better than anything after weighting them up. Its all i use.
Charlie, I realize they make a 150 grain head. My whole point was to use a smaller diameter head, or in other words a head with a smaller main blade for better penetration. The thinking behind it was the larger main blade on a 125 or 150 grain head decreases penetration through the drag created.
Thanks KY TJ for the thread, I had some negative experiences early in the season this year by not being utilizing the best penetration setup possible. Nothing worse than stick & release on Deer! Been playing around with the GT's myself; appreciate the input from all.
(By the way; couldn't pass this one, my initials are T.J. and I live in Kentucky also).
TJ... I believe that the main blade on all the "Stinger" are the same size regardless of weight... the extra weight is in the ferrule.
Charlie I was shooting the regular Magnus two blade head which is 1-1/8" wide and 140 grains. The 100 grain "stinger" I have now are 1" wide. The 125 grain stingers are 1-1/16" wide and they don't offer a stinger style in more than 125 grain.
On the same note of being modern. I was able to come up with a modern solution to an old problem of how to add weight to a POC shaft. I was able to use the old style wood shaft screw in adapters with a long aluminum adapter glues into a snuffer. This combo was able to increase arrow weight 90 grans. I could go up hundreds of grans more with steel or brass BH adapter if needed. Now I can get more penetration and still stay with POC.
I used to use and still have some of the GT weight system with black all thread and the tiny 20gr. brass weights. I'd loc-tite them in place, etc.
I can't say now, but when the brass inserts first came out, I figured the cost to be a break-even deal. And as stated above, using those long tom 100 gr. inserts, they made me feel they were strengthening the area behind the point on the GT to have a pretty solid brass thing well over an 1 1/2" up inside the shaft!
I consider myself a traditional old fart with the mind of a child :biglaugh:
100gr brass inserts are the way to go put lots of front weight on carbons and get excellent flight and excellent penatration
I pulled this from the Magnus site:
http://www.magnusbroadheads.com/stingers.html
It shows a 150 Stinger, but does not give the OD. I have not yet discovered a retailer who lists it, either.
I enjoyed reading your well-written post.
Killdeer
Ah-HAH! 3Rivers has the 150 grain Stinger in their paper catalog, but not on their website. They also list the new Traditional Bowyers' Bible #4 in the catalog, but not on their website.
Killdeer :saywhat: