Trad Gang
Topic Archives => Build Alongs => Topic started by: initialimage on September 06, 2006, 10:47:00 PM
-
I've decided to do my first Trad Gang build along. I've seen so many good ones lately that I wanted to give it a try. I have been designing my next bow, but have been putting off starting it for one reason or another. This will get me in gear to get it done. I'll probably be very long winded at times but I'll try to be thorough for those that have never attempted a bow before. I've done lots of reading, and seeing what others have done have helped me a lot. I made my first bow over 10 years ago. After making a couple of board bows, a stave bow and a fiberglass bow, I got side tracked and have just started building bows again. Made my first one in 9 years in January. The second one I made is the one I've been shooting, but it's 68" ntn and I want something shorter for hunting. I've designed a 58" ntn bow. I am going to make a bamboo backed bow for this build along, but I'll be making fiberglass bows also from the same design so I'm making a fire hose form.
I have my own business making prototypes and visual models. There was a recent thread about cnc machines. Well I have a couple and I use them. I don't use them for the bows, but I do for templates.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/risertemplate1.jpg)
Here is a pic of the form I use for bamboo backed bows. I use inner tubing for part of it and spring clamps in between.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/DSCN8176.jpg)
This is how my last one turned out. I'll be using most of the same materials on the build along, so I thought I'd include these.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/finishbow7.jpg)
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/finishbow6.jpg)
Enough of the past bow. Time to start the build along:
I use the following program at work and it works great for my design work: http://www.rhino3d.com
Here is a comparison pic of the previous design versus the new one.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/bow-shapes.jpg)
I was interested in the Torges Ambush Bow Challenge. While I didn't enter, I thought about making a shorter bow than what I'm used to and wondered how I would design it. I looked at some of my older recurves that have a more forward handle design and decided to use a recurve style riser with severely deflex reflexed limbs. I'm not worried about this design in a fiberglass bow, but I'm not sure yet of my tillering skills with this type of bow. Time will tell.
I started by gluing/screwing some plywood together and machining a template. My maximum dimension on my mill is 20" so I'm limited in what I can cut so I improvise. I split my template into 4 parts and have them keyed together with peanut shaped pieces. Fits nice and tight to give a good template.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/bowprofilepieces.jpg)
Closeup...
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/templatecloseup.jpg)
-
You may be wondering why there are holes in the template. When I first started the project I was going to use a bottom form only and use pegs for a tire inner tube glue up. They were reference holes for the pegs. Once I decided on fiberglass bows too, the airhose form seemed the likely choice. I'll use the template to cut the bottom of the mold with my router and a flush cutting bit. I'll have pics of that later.
You can see an older hose form in the background of this one.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/templatesairhose.jpg)
The form layout is drawn on the side with the metal strips placed.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/formlayout.jpg)
The form has been rough cut and the metal strips test fit.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/formroughedout.jpg)
Closeup...
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/formroughedoutcloseup.jpg)
More to follow.............(hopefully tomorrow vs. Friday)
-
Holy Cow! :scared:
My bow building IS primitive compared to this, more like prehistoric!
Very interesting though. Keep it going. (Great photos)
-
Lookin forward to this one. Looks like you got your poop in a group. (know what your talking about) ;) Chad
-
I see in the second picture that the quality control department is paying close attention to the goings on. Charge on, we are watching.
-Fritz
-
This is gonna be good. Thanks in advance for taking us along.
-
Dude,
Keep it coming! I'm stuck in Iraq for about 60 more days but have the "ingredients" for 3 bows awaiting my return. I didn't have a CAD program for the profile, but have decided on a severe D/R desing. I love what seems to be the technical approach that alot of you guys use. Also, the photos of your bows in the beginning are beautifull!
-
Alright! Keep it coming...
-Brian
www.bowyersjournal.com (http://www.bowyersjournal.com)
-
um, can i come over to your shop to play...? :bigsmyl:
-
Nice work. Can't wait to see it progress.
-
Oh Yeah, keep it coming!
-
I too did not enter the ABC challenge, mainly because I dealt with about a month of walking pneumonia at the wrong time to be able to finish on time. I see though that a couple of you were also thinking of reverse (or forward) handled bows. While Jeff's limbs are a bit different from what I have in mind, he's thinking in the same general direction. What's cool about the ABC challenge is that it's going to get a lot of people building bows and experimenting with design. Everyone keep working. ABC II is just around the bend. ;)
-
i thought i had it good having a cabinet shop full of tools to use you got it made myson
-
Not much progress made, but I'll post as I go. I was able to get the bottom of the form routed today.
I setup outside because this step makes a big mess. I clamped my template to the bottom of the form and lined it up to my previous marks.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/DSCN9353.jpg)
Here is a shot with the form fipped over and my router setup. I bought a 1/2" router bit that is very long so I can use it on a form up to 2" wide if needed.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/DSCN9354.jpg)
I take it very slow during this step so I don't mess up anything. If the router is tipped at all and not held flat, it will gouge. I end up with a very smooth square cut that matches the template.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/DSCN9357.jpg)
-
Here is the next tool that I used. It is my drill press with a sanding drum in it. This picture shows the acrylic plate I machined years ago. I normally leave it bolted to the drill but I've needed it for other things recently and just used double stick tape to hold it on. The hole in it allows me to get the drum below the surface of the table and sand the full width of the form. It also has a guide like my router bit that I can screw on to the bottom and use it to sand shapes flush to any templates I make.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/DSCN9360.jpg)
I sand until my blue line is gone.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/DSCN9359.jpg)
Here is the form put back together. Notice how much cleaner it looks now compared to when it was just roughed out.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/DSCN9361.jpg)
I just got an aluminum project I need to get running. Later I hope to get to the spacers so I can see about finishing up the form.
...........stay tuned
-
The form is looking good
-
Nice build along........Terry
-
What Bob (lost arra) said :bigsmyl: :bigsmyl: :bigsmyl: :bigsmyl:
-
Here's the last update for today. I have the spacers done and basically the form is done(details left). This picture show the spacers which aren't glued on yet. I like a smooth form and like to make them where cleanup is easy if epoxy gets on them. I'll take everything apart, including the spacers and sand(palm sander) the sides of the entire form to smooth them up more than what they are now. Once sanded I'll blow them clean and glue the spacers in place. After the glue is dry I'll apply a thick single coat of polyurethane to seal the wood. When I'm ready for a glue up I'll wax(regular Johnson's paste wax) the side of the form which is easier to do with the sealer on it versus the unfinished wood. You can also see in the picture the piece of metal I'm holding up. This isn't what I'll be using, but I wanted to show that I'll put an adjustable stop on the sides of the form to keep the lams from shifting. The first fiberglass bow I ever glued up turned out, but the glue up was almost a disaster. When I aired up the hose, my lams slid all over the place. The side stops keep them from shifting out the side of the form. The other thing I need to do is to glue a piece of material to the bottom half of the mold. I've used formica in the past but will be using a thin piece of galvanized metal. There is a sheet metal business across the parking lot from me which has its perks. Did I say at the beginning of this thread that I may get long winded at times?
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/DSCN9363.jpg)
-
Still looking good. May I suggest rounding the corners on your metal pieces. Sometimes easier on the fingers when you get in a hurry.
-
Mike brings up a good point about the metal straps. I did round my corners but they don't show in this picture. Here is another one where you can see them. I rounded the corners and lightly beveled the edges.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/DSCN9362.jpg)
These are little details that I'll try and post as I go but forgot to mention. Glad you guys are here to keep me on my toes.
My hope is that by the end of this I'll encourage someone to build their first bow.
-
Yep I can see it now. :thumbsup:
-
I like the side stop idea, I have only done one but the lams I had varied a bit in the width.
-
I know I have looked at our 5 axis cnc horizontal boring mill and thought, man you could sure make a nice bow form on it. Just progam it, throw the form up there and let her go. Wouldnt even have to sand, it would be ready for the formica out of the machine. :bigsmyl:
-
Keep it coming,,,, I'm begining to think I want to try this some day.
-
Great build-along!! you have some nice machinery to work with. It is always exciting, when I build a new form or style,to get the bow built and put it through its paces. Thanks for taking us along on this build-along.
Chort :thumbsup:
-
I am about to get slammed with work which is going to keep my mills running almost 24/7 so I decided to finish up the final machined parts of the form. I was going to use aluminum for the side stops but didn't have enough. Since I've got a ton of plastic I decided to use it instead. Won't make any difference anyway. Here I am machining them. You don't need this pick, but most people thinks it's cool when they see my mills running so imagine the table is moving in a circle.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/DSCN9367.jpg)
The next one shows how they mount to the form and are to be used. I made them circular as you can see and I cut my hole in them off center so I can easily rotate them to whatever thickness is needed to hold the lams in place. They should work quite well.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/DSCN9368.jpg)
I've got one rotated all the way down out of the way and the other as high as it will go(don't ever see having it up that high).
The side stops are something I didn't read about during my first form and glue up. It took me about 2 seconds into airing up the hose to figure out how important they are.
As you can see I try to be very precise when making the form. I have the attitude that if I'm going to make something that is to be used over and over, why not make it as nice and user friendly as possible. The first form I made I rushed through and while it worked, I quit using it in order to make a new one.
I've got all the spacers glued on. I'll come back and put a couple of finish nails in them so they don't pop off.
Something else I want to point out is that I didn't plan out my screws very well when I glued the plywood up and some ended up in spots to be cut out. I just took them all out for the rest of the form building and now that I'm done, I'll go back and put screws back into the form to keep it securely together. I'm just about done with the form and then I'll start getting everything ready to glue up the blank.
thanks for looking.................
-
I am looking forward to every step of the way!!
-
God idea on the round side plates.
-
Man,...this is high tec :bigsmyl: :bigsmyl:
-
I'm sooooooo close now on the form. Here is the current status. I sanded the sides and brushed on a coat of polyurethane over the whole form. You'll notice the thin metal strip that I'm going to glue to the form tomorrow. I'll trim the ends to length and use contact cement on both the form and the metal strip.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/DSCN9376.jpg)
This next picture show the materials for the bow. I plan to make fiberglass bows off this form but the first one will be bamboo/wood. I've got some raw boo cut(need to get it to profile and thin it down. The other strips are cut up vertical grain bamboo flooring(natural and carbonized). I really like this combination, but I don't like using the bamboo flooring for my belly. I've got some ipe that I planned to use for the belly, but it isn't wide enough. I'm trying to figure out what to do since my ipe source isn't that close to me. The handle is walnut. Nothing fancy about this bow since I'm not sure if I can pull it off or not.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/DSCN9378.jpg)
-
You are a lucky man, to be able to do that!!!!!
-
I've got a little cleanup on the metal piece I just glued on and the form is done. I sanded my metal piece and wiped it down with denatured alcohol. I put a couple of coats of contact cement on the bottom of the form and the metal piece. After about 20 minutes of drying, I carefully placed the strip on my form. I had help for this so that it didn't touch the form anywhere accidentally. When I was near the end my help took the picture. I used a seam roller starting at the center and pushed down hard working my way from the center out. I've trimmed the extra material from the ends with the dremel. I'll debur all the sharp edges and I'm done with this step.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/DSCN9380.jpg)
Next step, prepping the lams, riser, and boo backing...............................
-
Lookin good Jeff, can't wait to see a bow come out of this baby.
-
I am in awe of your abilities and you're only building your FORM! WOW!
Dean
-
Hee hee flip flops in a machine shop.
-
Tom,
I wondered if anyone would comment on the flip flops. Gotta be comfortable right?
Form is done.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/DSCN9382.jpg)
Put everything together to test fit and air up the hose. So far so good. I'll be pulling an all nighter working on projects which I hate doing but gotta keep the clients happy. The good news is that while machines are running, I'll be able to start on the bow. I'll prep the raw boo first and will have pictures to document that as the night goes on.
-
I'll try and be as descriptive as I can. I like to start off with my raw boo and determine how straight it is. I'm not marking anything at this point.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/DSCN9384.jpg)
There is quite a bit of bamboo to remove and I'll show my process. I'm sure others out there do it differently. The initial piece is wider than it will end up and there is still quite a bit of concave surface on the inside of the boo which can make it hard to transfer lines to it. I take it to the bandsaw and angle the piece. I cut the top edge until it almost makes a sharp edge. I don't want to cut into the bottom of the boo so I keep it angled and it is easy to use the bottom edge as a guide also. Hope you understand what I mean from the picture.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/DSCN9387.jpg)
I flip it over and do the same thing. Here is a comparison shot with a cutoff piece(original thickness) versus my piece after bandsawing.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/DSCN9386.jpg)
I transfer all my lines. I like to clamp a straight edge so that nothing moves while I'm drawing my lines.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/lines.jpg)
You want to make sure to cut your bamboo backing to finish size or just over finish size and the following picture shows why. If you left the bamboo full width and sanded it down, look what happens to the thickness when the bow's profile is cut. You would end up with extremely thick tips.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/DSCN9397.jpg)
Next................more work on the bamboo backing. Pictures to follow.................
-
Nice tute.
If your tillering skills are as good as your bow form building skills you won't have any trouble tillering mid limb on a composite bow and certainly not on a glass bow. But that amount of curve is going to be real fun to get bending right on the composite.You might want to wear a helmet just in case ha ha.
-
Mickey...My tillering skills will be put to the test on this one. I'm not looking forward to it because I don't want to screw it up now that people are watching.
I'm pretty much done with the bamboo backing. I have a little more to tweak it but it is put aside for now. I need to grind my lams, and start on the riser. I need to get the lams done first because I'll use one of them to fit my riser to while on the form.
Since the last step I sanded my boo backing to my lines. I like to go ahead and get it to size because you can easily see the edge and use as a reference when cutting/sanding. I use the same method as before and angle the bamboo and cut it close to the edge. I flip it over and do the same thing. Here is what I end up with off the bandsaw.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/DSCN9401.jpg)
I then take it to the sander and get the back flat while watching my edges as guides to know if I'm sanding one side more than the other.
Here is a reference to an original size. Notice how much is removed by the time it's finished.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/DSCN9402.jpg)
One thing I forgot to mention at the beginning is node placement. The piece of bamboo I used has fairly even node spacing but some start getting closer together from one end to the other. Just figure out your bow length and place the nodes so that you get the most even spacing on each end. You don't want to be careless and end up with a node near the last 2 inches of one end and 8 inches from the other.
More updates tomorrow.......................
-
I was able to work on the project again today. Here is what I got done.
I laid out the riser.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/DSCN9403.jpg)
After bandsawing just outside my lines I start sanding:
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/DSCN9405.jpg)
I ground my lams today. These are 3 thinner lams that are alternating colors.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/DSCN9409.jpg)
I have a thicker lam(belly lam) that was ground also and I have it clamped to my form to line my riser up against. You might not be able to tell from the picture but there is a very small gap in one area so the riser needs to be tweaked so that it fits flush.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/DSCN9408.jpg)
This riser is not going to work on this bow. For a fiberglass bow(which this form is designed for) the riser should work great, but for this bamboo backed bow it is too severe and the bamboo backing won't easily bend around it. I played around with some scrap and even tried heat bending it, but there is too much strain on the boo to follow this riser.
I'll be modifying the riser tomorrow. I'll cut it so it's not so pronounced and everything should bend nicely.
More tomorrow..................
-
Lucky you
-
I expect a fast shooter if you pull it off,,, keep it coming!
-
Thanks for posting as you go. Looks like the riser is gaping to the left of center, is that the adjustment you mentioned? Also, it looks like you are going to have the riser the same thickness as the middle lamination and butt into it. Or are you leaving the ends thick until you get the shape done and then feather it out?
I am really enjoying this build along. I picked up some lam bow working pieces, a hot box, couple of forms and hose stuff at an auction a while back and am looking forward to working with it. Threads like this give me a lot of info for when that time comes.
-
I won't normally post unless I have something to show but decided I'd answer Shaun's(I enjoyed reading about your recent adventure) questions.
There is a slight gap to the left of center which you pointed out. That is the area I need to tweak to get fitting a little better. The riser is still thick at my fades. I like to get the riser fitting flush along the bottom and then I'll fade them to a feather edge from the top side.
I am hoping to glue the bow up tonight and have some more pics to post. I don't know how many I'll be able to take because I'll have my hands full at glue up.
Osagetree.....If I can pull it off(not sure if I'll succeed or not. I'm pushing my limits with this one)
-
Jeff, thanks again for this tread and answering my questions. That is a great idea to leave the riser tips thick until all else is fitted. I have read that paper thin, tapering to nothing tips are important on a riser and they must be very fragile when at that stage.
I'm looking forward to seeing how this one turns out, but even more to seeing/sharing the learning process that it is providing.
There is one school of thought that follows fact and engineering statistics. There is another that relies on something more elusive. This second is summed up in a phrase I've heard, "Intuition is the highest form of reason." There seems to be some intuitive as well as practical application going on in your design process. Keep it up.
-
I have the bottom surface of my riser lined up to my form. When I start making fiberglass bows off this form, I'll machine a jig that I can use for sanding the riser and make it a no brainer. I had to do a lot of test fitting and sanding to get it right without a jig. What you can't see in the picture is how the bottom surface lines up with the belly lam. I just put the riser up for the picture. You can see how much I cut off to get the raw bamboo piece to bend over the riser. I was going to add a little more walnut to the belly side of the riser anyway(later after removed from the form) so I'll just make up the difference I cut off by adding a thicker piece. I also realized that my side stops are the right size for a fiberglass bow thickness but not for this bow. I had to machine some larger ones.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/DSCN9414.jpg)
Here is a shot now that the riser piece has been sanded out. Notice how thin it gets. You also have to make sure it is a very gradual taper. You can sand a feather edge, but if the angle is too severe, the lams won't make a smooth transition over it.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/DSCN9420.jpg)
I've got a few more things to do and another trick to show before I glue up. Looks like I'll be working all night so hopefully I'll be able to work in gluing up the bow tonight. I have my tripod here, so maybe I can get some pictures while I'm doing the glue up.
-
I like the new riser much better :bigsmyl:
-
I was finally able to get the bow glued up. I'll have to wait until it comes out of the form to see how it glued up. I've never glued up a bamboo backed bow in hose form before.
Here is a little trick I use when I glue up a bamboo backed bow no matter what method I use for glue up. I glue little pieces to keep the raw bamboo from sliding off to the side once pressure is applied.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/DSCN9429.jpg)
Before I lay out everything for gluing up I get the form ready along with the air hose. I don't like using saran wrap on the form since it clings to itself so easily. I've got some plastic material(can get at Home Depot) that is much thicker than saran wrap and you can see how it holds its shape better. The airhose is different. I like to protect the hose from glue as much as possible. I like to wrap the hose and saran wrap can easily work for this though I use shrink wrap material I have in my shop. Wrap loosely because the hose will expand when aired up.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/DSCN9432.jpg)
Now that I'm about ready to glue up everything, I lay out a protective material(saran wrap or shrink wrap) on top of my work surface. I spread out all my pieces for gluing. I made some notes on these just for the build along. I like to tape off the belly and the raw bamboo backing. This makes for a much easier cleanup of the blank when it comes out of the form.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/DSCN9436.jpg)
Ready to glue......................
-
I'm surprised I was able to take as many pictures as I did. I had my hands full during the glue up.
I like to run a bead of glue down the length of each piece and then use a seam roller to spread the glue. It works really well. You can purchase one of these in the wallpaper section at Home Depot, etc. One thing I always do on both sides of the riser(at the fades) once I've spread the glue is to pool a little extra over the fades but don't spread it out. I leave it thick to make sure I get a good joint there. Any excess will get forced out. I am using Urac 185 from Nelson Paint Company for this glue up. I'll use Smooth On when I do a fiberglass bow.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/DSCN9438.jpg)
On a fiberglass glue up I use strapping tape around the lams and the bottom of the form to pull everything tight before putting the form together. I didn't have enough hands to do that with this bow because my belly lam is thicker and has to be forced down onto the form. You can see my solution to this. I put a couple of wooden dowels through the form on each end and used inner tubing to easily stretch and hold my lams down to the form.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/DSCN9439.jpg)
Once everything is in place and my side stops adjusted to the right height I put one more layer of plastic on top of the pieces and then assemble everything.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/DSCN9442.jpg)
Here is the form with the hose aired up.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/DSCN9445.jpg)
When I decided to make the riser smaller I needed to make up that missing space so the air hose would keep the right spacing. You can see my solution. I just took the cut off riser section and taped it to the top of the form.
Now it's time to wait.............This is the worst part of bowmaking for me. I'm always very tempted to pull the blanks off the form much too early.
-
I can't wait either, go ahead and pull it off the form so we can see. No, better wait.
The little pieces glued to the bamboo to keep it centered are at the tips only - past where you plan to cut to length?
-
Forgot to mention something about the airhose. You should always check it for leaks. This hose hasn't been used in years. I aired it up and in turn put each end into a large cup of water. I had small bubbles coming out of each. I tightened the clamps that hold the plugs in the hose and tested them again. No leaks. The last thing you want is a hose that goes flat before glue up is complete.
-
Shaun...I only put the small glue on pieces at the ends. That seems to hold everything right where it needs to be. I've thought about putting some at mid limb but never needed to. The pieces that are glued on can be handled two ways. If the raw bamboo is left longer than it will end up being the ends can just get cut off and they are gone. Once I get the blank off the form I use the bandsaw to trim just outside of the boo backing. This cuts away almost all of those small glued on pieces and they completely disappear when I sand the sides. I'll probably show that step with pictures later.
-
I was asked a question offline that I'll address here and it has to do with the air hose. I bought my plugs and hose from Binghams. You can see on one end it has a normal schrader valve incorporated into it. I just use a normal attachement in my airhose for airing it up. I have a regulator setup within my airlines in the shop. I turn it down all the way so there is no pressure. I then press the air fitting onto the hose and slowly raise the pressure until it's where I want it. All it takes is a bicycle pump with a pressure gauge on it.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/DSCN9446.jpg)
I'm going to dinner to celebrate my younger son's 6th birthday. After the festivities I'll come back and pull the form apart. I've got my fingers crossed.
-
Looking good so far.
-
The blank is off the form and glue up appears successful. I only hope the rest of it is. Here is a shot showing what to be very careful of. These edges of dried glue can be extremely sharp so either wear gloves at first or use great care when handling the blank.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/DSCN9471.jpg)
The next two shots show why I like to tape off both the belly side and the back of the bow. I like to use the blue tape because it shows up much better, but the regular masking tape is so much cheaper. Glue will find a way to get on them.
Back
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/DSCN9472.jpg)
Belly
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/DSCN9474.jpg)
My next step is to take the blank to the bandsaw and carefully cut away the majority of the glue that has hardened over the sides. After that I like to take a file and file the edges of the belly so that any leftover glue is flush with the belly. This way it will sit flat when I cut the profile on the bandsaw. I cut just outside of my raw bamboo piece. After that I sand the edges to the raw bamboo.
DON'T REMOVE THE TAPE UNTIL YOU HAVE SANDED CLOSE TO YOUR FINISH PROFILE. It will pull off much easier than if you try to do it before sanding the edges.
Here is a shot once the tape has been removed.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/DSCN9478.jpg)
CAN YOU SAY TILLERING NIGHTMARE BOYS AND GIRLS?
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/blank.jpg)
I've got my work cut out for me now.
-
Good luck. I know I wouldn't be up for the task of getting those limbs to bend right.
Clint
-
Man, those limbs have some MAJOR bend in them. ALmost looks like its strung backwards. This is gonna be a cool little bow for sure. I would LOVE to do this. Good luck!
-
HOLY CURVES !!!
I wouldn't know where to start tillering that pappy.
Manny
-
Just thought I'd throw this in for reference. It is the glue up profile of my previous bow. I got good tiller on it but had to take my time and it challenged me a couple of times. I know this new one will be lots of fun. Ha ha. I seem to get more radical with each bow I build though I don't see myself trying to out radical this one.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/previousbow.jpg)
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/blank.jpg)
Please send good karma my way. I'll need all I can get.
-
OK, I've managed to get this far without saying it, but I've got to now. WOW! This is a great thread. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Graham
-
Wow those limb tips are going to have to bend 12" just to get to brace. I'm going to recommend you clamp the handle in your tiller tree when tillering so that baby doesn't try and flip on you.
-
Holly Gullwing Batmant! You are going to have plenty of early tension on the draw. Clamping the handle sounds like a real good idea. This is gonna be fun to watch.
-
Wow!
Just checked in for the first time. Inspirational!
-
Here is today's update. I like to put my string back across the roughed out blank to see how the tips and limbs align. Looking good.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/DSCN9482.jpg)
I wanted to show this pic to stress again the importance of taking your time with the fades. Getting them feather thin with a low entry angle will get good smooth transitions.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/DSCN9490.jpg)
I'm showing the profile again because I've cut the tips down. I now have the blank to the finished length and I've sanded the sides to the finished dimensions except for narrowing the tips. I'll do that later during tillering once it's bending and the tips are still showing to be aligned.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/blank2.jpg)
Next step.......glue on the rest of the riser and then get to tillering.
-
Man, thats gonna be one sweet lookin bow!
-
DON'T STOP,,,,, MORE! MORE! :thumbsup:
-
my son that is going to be one nice bow i want it give it here lol.
-
The rest of this should be interesting.Tillering looks to be scary!
-
You are an Artist
-
Here are a couple of observations I have at this point in the process. I designed this bow(fiberglass) with a very forward style riser, but I'm really liking the look of the riser on this bow. I'll glue the rest of the riser on tomorrow and decide if I may want to try this change on a glass bow at some point.
I guessed on lam thicknesses based on a couple of things. First I looked at my two previous boo backed bows to see what thicknesses they were. The limbs came out fairly close in thickness even though the designs were different. I also have a friend that did a recurve bamboo backed bow so I kind of averaged all 3 even though each design was different.
I intentionally left the belly lams thick so I had some room to play with it. I'm wondering right now if my overall thickness is too much. I haven't tapered the belly lam at all yet, but when I tried a quick floor tiller today for kicks, the limbs don't want to move much.
4nolz asked the following "can an all wood bow survive this?" My answer is I really hope so.
I hope to hunt with this bow soon, but just to be safe, I'm gluing up a fiberglass one on Sunday.
I really appreciate all the kind words I've received during this project.
Thank you.
-
Man keep on rolling. I am very interested in that design Longbow. I have a feeling thats gonna be a sweet fiberglass bow. Im not sure on the all wood if it will hold up but the again what do I know. Thanks for taking the time to do this!
-
Fantastic thread. Great looking bow. That should be a sweet shooter when you finish it out. Can't wait to see the rest of the action.
-
Thanks! The thought of tillering that gave me nightmares last night! :scared: This is going to be fun to watch!!
Great thread so far!
Have you ever thought about offering to mill templates for people??
-
Got the rest of the riser glued on today. Now for my favorite part of bowmaking(NOT).......................................................waiting.........................................
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/DSCN9493.jpg)
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/DSCN9496.jpg)
-
The rest of the riser is glued on. I have an idea in my head how I'll shape it out when I'm done but for now I'll leave it thick. I've got it cut back past the working limbe area, so I don't have to worry about thinning it down.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/9500-cropped.jpg)
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/DSCN9501.jpg)
I tried doing some floor tillering to get the limbs moving. I had to take off a lot of my belly lam before they even thought about bending. I'm getting now where I don't have an excess amount to work with. What I'll do if I need to is trap the limbs to reduce limb mass. Don't know if I'll need to but I have that option as I go along. Here it is being pulled for the first time. Notice the left is bending more than the right. One thing to note when tillering is that you often don't have to remove much material at all for the limb to bend more. It is better to do a little at a time, because you can't put it back on. I like to pull my limbs about 50 times each time I remove material.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/9503-cropped.jpg)
I've been working a ton along with working on this bow. Think I'm gonna take a couple days off and step away. I need to be on my toes for this rest of this. More in a few days............
-
man i hope she holds up she is going to be a beut keep it up
-
It's been a few days. TTT
-
Hee hee looks like it'll be 50# @ 1"
Keep going! Hope it works out for you.
-
Started working on it again today. Here is a relaxed shot versus where I have it bending right now. I should have either made my core lams much thinner or tapered them. This is getting challenging since I hardly have any belly lam left to play with. Don't know how it will end up.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/tiller1.jpg)
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/tiller2.jpg)
-
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/DSCN9508.jpg)
You can see that I need to get the outer limbs bending more. I also have a hinge starting on the left side near the riser. I need to even that out. I'll work on the hinge, get the outer limbs bending more and get limbs evened out and then I'll try a low brace height.
-
Amazing Jeff, just amazing....thanks for taking us along..
David
-
Great thread...please keep it coming...I know I'm not the only one who has appreciated it...you should think about self-publishing it...it's that good...
-
Decided to come back to the shop and work on it some more. I just braced it. You really see where to work the limbs once you brace it the first time. Notice how the string is still touching the limb on the right side.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/initialimagellc/brace1.jpg)
-
I won't be hunting with this bow. I've been working on the tiller which is a nightmare right now. Still dealing with a hinge on the left side and can't get the right bending enough yet. It has also started taking on a lot of set. I think by the time I'm done it will draw about 25-30#. It is going to be severely underweight. After I'm done with this one I'm going to glue up a fiberglass bow so I can get a shooter and put this one behind me. I'll be working to finish this one out completely and it may just end up a wall hanger. I wasn't sure if I could pull this bow off or not and I've learned tonight that the answer is "not". Oh well, I won't lose any sleep over it. I will most likely only post a couple more times which will deal with tip overlays, shaping and finishing of the riser and staining/sealing the bow. Thanks for all the complements.
-
Think of this bow as a really good teaching tool. When I dreamt up a concept for an ambush bow, the riser area was to be deflexed much like yours but I wasn't going to start the reflex so early in the limb. That bow of yours has got some serious swoop to the limbs! You've no doubt learned a great deal from this project. Can't wait to see your next one. :thumbsup:
-
Originally posted by initialimage:
...Oh well, I won't lose any sleep over it.
Heh. No more all-nighters on this project then?
? Sorry, I don't know much about bow-making, but could you cut off some length off the tips to stiffen it up - and shorten it at the same time? Then it could at least be used by a smaller person, no? Or as a "demo/loaner" bow get younger people interested in archery?
Well, thank you for the journey, anyways - especially the pictures! I've learned SO much from this visual process. This thread is now in my bookmarks.
I work at a shop that hand-makes high-end custom-ordered jewellery, and I've had my share of "do-overs". I tend to get frustrated when that realization comes... mostly when the master smith gives me a sad grin. He's so patient - always reassuring me that I can chalk it ALL up to experience: "It'll go twice as fast the next time round, Al!"
He's always right, even when I'm a victim of... my own poor planning. ;)
-
Jeff, have enjoyed watching this.
If you want to mess with it, finish the tillering to what ever poundage it will allow……then add a thin belly lam of hedge or bulletwood to bring the weight back up.
Very simple process that it would appear you are very capable of. All depends on your desire to turn this into a hunting weight bow or not.
-
Very interesting thread. Is the belly lam from laminated Bamboo? Bue--.
-
First off, I just want to say that that is a very awsome looking bow. I have never built a bow, but wish to try someday. I know there are many good books and videos on the subject which I am sure I will review before I actually start, but I am curious about the tillering of a glass bow. I understand the process of tillering an all wood bow, by sanding, cutting, and rasping away belly wood and the sides of the limbs, but this just doesn't seem logical to do on fiberglass. Am I wrong and this is how you do it, or is there another method entirely, or do fiberglass bows just tend to not need much tillering? I am curious.
-
Tom...Definitely a learning experience. Never intended to do this at first but thought what the heck. I won't use this form for the next one. I'll go back to my original form for my other glue ups.
Allan...I'm not going to cut the tips off because it's already a 58" bow and I've got a fairly rigid riser. I should have had my riser shorter with more working limbs.
John...I thought about gluing another belly lam on but because the bow has already taken on quite a bit of set and I've trapped the limbs I'm going to pass. My son had a birthday next month so I'm thinking about thinning the riser area a lot and turning it into a bow for him. Jury's still out.
Buemaker...Yes to your question. I ended up using what I had for this bow. I was going to use raw boo and ipe but my ipe was too narrow for my form.
jchunt4ever...When making a fiberglass bow it almost tillers itself. It is a much more controlled process. The main thing to work on is getting the nock grooves lined up correctly so that the limbs pull straight. I'll post on this thread again when I work on a fiberglass bow so you can see the comparisons. I hope to get some fiberglass ordered next week and I'll start planning the first glass bow off this form.
I hope everyone has enjoyed this to this point. As stated above I might turn this bow into a birthday gift for my son. I tend to learn more from my failures and I feel this bow was exactly that. I should still be able to turn it into a very nice looking useable bow, but I missed the mark from its original intent. I hope to finish it up next week(schedule permitting) and I'll probably pick this thread up with a fiberglass bow blank when I get to that point. It might be interesting to see the comparison of the two bows made off the same form. Thanks again for looking.
-
A great and realistic journey...thanks for letting me come along!
-
So what ever happened to this bow? And did you wind up making a glass bow with this form?
-
ReviveOurHomes,
I haven't logged on for quite some time and haven't done anything to the bow other than let it collect dust. I got really busy with work and have been working on merging my company with another one so I've had no time to even think about bows. I'll be moving my company to Houston which I'm in the process of doing now and hopefully in a couple of months I can get back to bows again. I'm ready to glue up a fiberglass bow on the form(going to make a slight modification to it) and see how it comes out. The new shop is located on 25 acres so I will have a ton of room to shoot and setup different targets. I also will have private hunting land about an hour away so I really want to get on the glass bow sooner than later. Thanks for the inquiry and I will get back to posting once my professional life settles down.