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Topic Archives => Build Alongs => Topic started by: RayMO on June 04, 2005, 12:02:00 PM

Title: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: RayMO on June 04, 2005, 12:02:00 PM: This is my first attempt at a footed riser and I am pleased so far with the way this is going. Birds eye maple and black walnut. I want to stay with woods that are not too hard to work with for the first try. :D

Any who...it will no doubt take a long time for me to finish this up..I will post more as it moves along.

(http://tinypic.com/5n6kn4)

and here is the result.

(http://tinypic.com/5n6mab)
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: kennym on June 04, 2005, 12:12:00 PM: Cool jig,looks like it worked great. My bandsaw is so sloppy,don't know if I could do that,but I may have to try. Do you do any sanding before glue? What type of blade are you usin? :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: Spookeytooth on June 04, 2005, 12:13:00 PM: That kicks arse. Who showed you how to make that jig?
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: RayMO on June 04, 2005, 12:33:00 PM: Thanks..I don't take credit for the jig I got it from someone here who has done this before. Don't remember who now. I used a 1/4 inch 4 teeth per inch blade. I tried a little finer (5 teeh per inch) one and it did not work as well.

I will put some very thin white bow tuff, a little than the saw blade, between the sections. I don't plan on doing much sanding just a litlle, you don't really want it to smooth anyway. I have glued up rasiers before, but not one like this.

Ray
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: Kevin Breaux on June 04, 2005, 01:08:00 PM: That is slick...and something I will be using in the future, thanks for posting it!
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: RayMO on June 06, 2005, 07:38:00 AM: I was looking at the pattern for the riser that comes with the Bingham TD kit. I realy don't like it very much, a large shelf and a high grip. I guess that may be a good place to start if you did not know what you want because it leaves a lot of wood on the riser, but it is no where near what I like.

I was wondering if anyone had a pattern for a riser they would be willing to share?

What do you like in a riser? I like a radius shelf no more than 2.5 inches, a wide throat directly under the shelf, an a grip the swells into my hand. Pretty much a Fedora

Ray

Ray
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: TexMex on June 06, 2005, 08:35:00 AM: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: Ted on June 07, 2005, 09:09:00 AM: Ray,

That jig looks really cool. I am new to bow-building and woodworking in general and have thus far only put together some relatively boring risers. I think your jig and others similar could help me change that.

I sat down last night to see if I could figure out how to make one and I think I have it figured, but I have a question. How far from the 'pivot point' do you cut the curve? I think I could figure out a good spot with some trial and error, but thought I would see if you would enlighten me before I needlessly sacrifice some miscellaneous MDF scraps.

THANKS for sharing your very neat idea.

Ted
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: RayMO on June 07, 2005, 02:53:00 PM: Ted,

I had the same question when I was making the jig. I will measure the radius for you tonight.
I think the radius I used should be a little larger.

Ray
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: Ted on June 07, 2005, 10:29:00 PM: Thanks Ray - I appreciate the help.

Ted
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: Holm-Made on June 07, 2005, 11:06:00 PM: Cool. Where did you get that red clamp? I've never seen one like it. Slick. Chad
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: RayMO on June 08, 2005, 07:26:00 AM: The radius is 19 inches, but I think it should be just a little more maybe 19 + 1/4 or + 1/8.

I had problems finding the clamp also. I got it at a local wood working store. You can get them on ebay. They are called toggle clamps and come in all kinds of shapes and sizes. Not too expenses about 5 to 8 dollars and they work great.

Again this is not my design got it from someone else.

Ray
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: Dave Worden on June 08, 2005, 08:34:00 PM: The clamps are made by DeStaCo ( Detroit something Company, I can't remember the middle). They are available from Rockler Hardware. http://www.rockler.com/ecom7/product_details.cfm?&offerings_id=10397&SearchHandle=DADBDADBDADADDDGDEDCDCGEGFDFDGDFCNDHDJDHDHCNDEDIGDDJCNDIGGDCDGCNDCGEDEGFGEDBDJDHGCDAGDDDDADADADBDA DADADADGGDGMGBGNHAHDDADADADEDADADADADADADADBDFDADADADBDADADADADADADADADADADADADBDADADADADGGDGMGBGNHAHDDADADADBDB&filter=clamps (http://www.rockler.com/ecom7/product_details.cfm?&offerings_id=10397&SearchHandle=DADBDADBDADADDDGDEDCDCGEGFDFDGDFCNDHDJDHDHCNDEDIGDDJCNDIGGDCDGCNDCGEDEGFGEDBDJDHGCDAGDDDDADADADBDADADADADGGDGMGBGNHAHDDADADADEDADADADADADADADBDFDADADADBDADADADADADADADADADADADADBDADADADADGGDGMGBGNHAHDDADADADBDB&filter=clamps)
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: Crooked Stic on June 08, 2005, 09:15:00 PM: Woodcraft handles the clamps also. You have a good looking start on the riser. I made a jig just like that one but havnt had the best of luck with it. I usally cut close to the line and use a robo sander and jig. I am trying to convert my jigs over to be used on a router table with a large pattern bit.
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: RayMO on June 09, 2005, 07:42:00 AM: I was very pleased with the way the jig worked. I can't cut a thing free hand worth a darn and I don't know when to stop with the drum sander. I am just a hack at this, but I enjoy it. Waiting for some riser accents to get here so I can glue the riser up.
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: Holm-Made on June 09, 2005, 09:43:00 PM: Thanks for the info and the picture. Creativity isn't one of my assets. I'd not have thought of that. Chad
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: RayMO on June 11, 2005, 08:54:00 AM: Got the riser glued up this morning

(http://tinypic.com/5vsoza)
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: kennym on June 11, 2005, 09:07:00 AM: Looks like that went well. Curve or longbow?
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: RayMO on June 11, 2005, 09:20:00 AM: It will be a recurve. Man it is hot working in the garage here today. Working on a jig to cut the angle for the limbs. This is my first TD.
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: RayMO on June 25, 2005, 01:33:00 PM: I thought I would update my progress. Here is a pic of a jig with the riser setting
in it. The jig is used on a table saw for cutting the riser butt ends.
Worked out well. By-the-way joiners do not like bow tuff :scared:

(http://tinypic.com/6eezv5.jpg)
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: RayMO on June 25, 2005, 01:34:00 PM: Here is another pic of the riser.

(http://tinypic.com/6eezye.jpg)
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: RayMO on June 25, 2005, 01:36:00 PM: Here is pic of the butt end of one of limbs clamped
up with a bow tuff overlay.

(http://tinypic.com/6ef03d.jpg)
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: Bodork on June 25, 2005, 02:08:00 PM: Thanks for the update raymo. Looks like it's going to be a very nice bow. What woods are in the limbs? Mike
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: RayMO on June 25, 2005, 02:51:00 PM: The wedges are black walnut and the limbs are birds eye maple to match the riser. I used a little dye to tone the limbs down. The limbs are really cool looking. Don't know if it will be a shooter, but it should be a looker.

Mo.
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: BenBow on June 25, 2005, 05:31:00 PM: Cool job RayMO! I'm using your idea to build a similar jig but with 2 different radius's so it will make a flair. Won't flip it over like you did though. Also going to work on mounting the jig on my spindle sander to make sure everything is smooth and true. Keep us posted I'm looking forward to pics of it finished. By the way what color dye did you use to tone down the maple? I used a torch to toast the fiddleback maple I'm using.
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: RayMO on June 25, 2005, 08:12:00 PM: BenBow,

I will go look later at the dye, it was just a powder I got from a woodshop here. You can mix it as strong as you want. I would like to do a flair also, but Have not figured the two radius issue out for a jig. How do you do that. I can't do it free hand, need a jig of some kind.

I have seen that burn on the fiddleback maple and it is way cool.

Mo.
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: BenBow on June 25, 2005, 10:05:00 PM: Here's a picture of a CAD drawing I just finished to build a takedown riser with a flair out of 16" long 2" square block of wood. Will have to lay it out on cardboard tomorrow to see if it will work.
(http://webpages.charter.net/gal_max/Flairedtakedownriser.jpg)
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: Holm-Made on June 26, 2005, 03:02:00 AM: Make sure you post a picture of the finished bow. Chad
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: halftooth on June 26, 2005, 04:50:00 AM: ive seen jigs like that on the new yankee work shop .norm abrams is an amazing carpenter
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: RayMO on June 26, 2005, 02:12:00 PM: BenBow...thanks for the drawing, that looks like the radius we need.

Mo.
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: BenBow on June 26, 2005, 06:45:00 PM: RayMO those dimensions are for my takedown longbow riser and may not work well for takedown recurves. What are the dimensions of the blocks you use for recurves and I'll see what I can come up with for that. Man I like team building and designing :bigsmyl:
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: RayMO on June 27, 2005, 01:03:00 PM: OK here are some more pics. I have the limbs on and the riser roughed out.

(http://tinypic.com/6fwg8i.jpg)
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: RayMO on June 27, 2005, 01:04:00 PM: Here's another shot.

(http://tinypic.com/6fwgg8.jpg)
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: BenBow on June 27, 2005, 03:42:00 PM: Oh that looks nice!!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: Jeff Strubberg on June 27, 2005, 05:12:00 PM: Looks very nice, Ray.

I may have to modify that idea and use a jig with my drum sander to do the fadeouts on my one-piece longbows. Getting them to match as closely as I want without a week of hand-sanding has been a problem.
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: RayMO on June 27, 2005, 07:48:00 PM: Thanks guys....it is still a work in progress, but it is beginning to look like a bow instead of a block of wood. :D

Never made a TD before so I am going real slow.

For me the hard part is getting the grip to feel just right. There will be a lot of slow sanding next.

Mo.
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: RayMO on June 27, 2005, 07:51:00 PM: Ben, I am just using the Bingham block which 19" long. It seems like a long riser to me and I may go smaller some day.

Mo.
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: stikbow on June 28, 2005, 09:02:00 AM: That is so cool. Me jealous. Did your plans come from Bingham?
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: sidebuster on June 28, 2005, 10:15:00 AM: Ray looking very good. Very good for your first TD
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: LoneWolf on June 28, 2005, 10:21:00 AM: Looks great, I'm jealous. I want my shop back. New house doesn't have one yet.
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: RayMO on June 28, 2005, 10:45:00 AM: The bow is basically Bingham except the riser pattern is mine I didn't like the Bingham pattern.

I have some 1/16 black walnut and birds eye strips that I am thinking about using for an overlay on the front of the riser. Once again, I have never done this before either. Not sure how to fasten them down at this point, don't know if I can get clamps to work?? Any advise?

Mo.
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: sidebuster on June 28, 2005, 11:25:00 AM: Ray if you lay your riser pattern on a chunk of inexpensive wood with the same thickness as your riser mark the top of riser on the pattern and cut this out, Make sure you have enough wood to the top of the cut so it remains solid. Use this piece to fit over your riser and riser overlay it will contour to the top of the riser and also put some more scrap wood on the other side of the riser belly side and use some C clamps large ones to clamp onto. Be sure you paste wax the heck out of the top scrap piece that will be conturing to your riser so the smooth on does not stick to that piece and comes off easy when you unclamp it. On the tips use small c clamps and scrap wood to clamp to. I use 2 c clamps on the tips. If you got a spring clamp it helps to temporaraly hold the scrap wood and tip overlay in place until you can get on small c clamp on.
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: RayMO on June 28, 2005, 01:23:00 PM: Thanks Sidebuster,

If I understand what you are saying I basically need to make a block that conforms to the belly of the riser so I can get clamps on??

I have always used smooth on before and had good luck with it, but I was thinking for these thin overlays on the riser that titebond may work just find...what do you think?? If I use titebond I maybe able to get away with some kind of a wrap to hold it on tight instead of clamps...I don't know..
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: sidebuster on June 28, 2005, 01:36:00 PM: Ray the the block needs to conform to the back of the bow not the belly. You are putting the overlay in the front of the riser or as it is referred to as the back of the bow. I would not use tite bond. Use smooth on. Put a edge center mark of your overlay with some white paint something you can see on the edge. You want to guide the overlay to the center of the riser. As you clamp it the overlay will move becasue of the smooth on You just need to fittle with it clamping a little here and little there until it is center on the back of the riser vertical and horizontanl then complete clamping it. Also make sure your overlay is long enough. You can always sand it shorter.
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: RayMO on June 28, 2005, 02:17:00 PM: Thanks sidebuster...I get it now. OK I will stick with the smooth on. It is difficult to clamp somthing down and keep it in place with that stuff. As you said it wants to slide all over the place. I was going to do the black walnut first then the maple on top of it. So it will take two glue up operations. The wood I have is 1/16 inch and I think that is a little to thick, I guess I can alwas reduce it by hand after it is glued on. Maybe I should reduce it a little first. What do you think?

Maybe I will give it a try to night..thanks
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: Jeff Strubberg on June 28, 2005, 02:22:00 PM: Ray,

Since the overlays aren't under any stress, two part epoxy should work just fine. Overlays are easier if they are thin enough to conform to the riser.
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: sidebuster on June 28, 2005, 02:26:00 PM: Ray the thinner it is the better to bend it. If you have enough of the overlay material you could glue the maple on the walnut first then see if you can bend it after it dries so you only have to do one glueing on the riser. Only experiment with this if you have enough to make a another sample if this one breaks. You might be able to do just one glueing if it bends and it will bend if it is thin enough to bend.
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: RayMO on June 28, 2005, 02:39:00 PM: I never thought about glueing then together first. That sounds like a good idea, but I think they will be too stiff for that. So I may try and reduce then on the belt sander some first. It seems the thinner the better.

Thanks again. I will let you know how it turns out.
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: RayMO on June 28, 2005, 07:43:00 PM: Well I glued the first layer of the riser overlay on tonight. When you cut out the riser save the scrap it is a perfect match to the fron of the riser and is great for a pressure plate for glueing on riser overlays. It least I hope so :D Find out for sure tomorrow.

Here is a pic of the overlay being glued up.

(http://tinypic.com/6h3ql1.jpg)
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: Crooked Stic on June 29, 2005, 05:46:00 AM: Glueing overlays to curved surfaces can be tricky. You idea should work fine if you get even pressure on the glued piece. I like to glue mine on when everything is still square (before shaping)to have a flat suface and drum sand the fades paper thin.
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: RayMO on June 29, 2005, 07:33:00 AM: OK....boy am I STUPID!!!! :knothead:

Yeah it is a bad deal...not sure I can even salvage the riser...

The overlay went on just fine, but I put a lamp on it to help cure the smooth on and left it on all night...how stupid is that..yes I have some de-lamination in the riser right where I had the lamp. Man I hate this...I even thought about it last night and I decided it would be OK. I have been beating myself up all morning.

So what are my options????????

1. I think this is my best option. The de- lamentation does not appear to be to deep (I doubt if it is a 1/4"), but it does run up thru the shelf, I am thinking that I may be able to use some gap filling CA. I really don't think smooth on is an option in this situation.

2. I thought about baking the whole riser to get it to totally de-lamentation and then re-glue. I really don't like this, don't even know if it is possible.

3. Build another riser.

The de-lamentation is only on one of the joints.

Any suggestions...??

Feeling really STUPID and down this morning...

Mo.
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: sidebuster on June 29, 2005, 08:18:00 AM: Ray will the riser come together with c clamps at the de lamination point? If it does take a razor blade and stuff smooth on into the open area. Put plenty from both sides if the delamination went completly thru. Then clamp it tight and let is sit for 24 hours no heat. Should work. This does not only make you a beginner bowyer on TD but it teaches you how to repair things. You will find many threads on how one bow is twisted here and there, needs refinishing, or something crack. You got to learn how to fix things cause most of us aren't rich to buy or start over again. If it works fine you tried if not then you can decided to start fresh on the riser by making a new one or delaminate the damaged one completly. You then would light sand the epoxy off and reglue it.
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: RayMO on June 29, 2005, 08:35:00 AM: Thanks sidebuster..

I don't know if I can draw the riser together or not for sure. Did not have too much time to look at it this morning. But I doubt if I can get enought smooth on in there to really help.

One thing is for sure...I am learning, don't care for the cost of the education too much.. :D

You did not say anything about using CA?

Ray
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: RayMO on June 29, 2005, 08:37:00 AM: Oh yea....the delamination does not go all the way thru. I estimate it is only 1/8 to 1/4 deep.
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: sidebuster on June 29, 2005, 08:46:00 AM: Ray you be surprised how much smooth on you can force in the open area. Got to use a small tool even a large needle. It is important that you are able to clamp it but just clamp it like you were glueing the whole riser for the first time cause sometines if you put pressure just on the open area another area might open. I know CA is good but its not an epoxy. Smooth On turns like a rock when fully dry. It up to you.
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: RayMO on June 29, 2005, 08:56:00 AM: Hmmm...I will see what I can do with the clamps tonight. If I can not draw the gap closed then smooth on is not the answer. As you said the danger is new delamination. If I can draw the gap closed then I will go with the smooth on as you suggested.

I would think that if I placed the riser in the oven it would delaminate totally. Have you ever done this? I could then reglue.

Thanks again.
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: SteveD on June 29, 2005, 08:58:00 AM: Wow Fantasic Thanks for the build along
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: sidebuster on June 29, 2005, 09:12:00 AM: I never have put a riser in the oven to delaminate. It will probably work but do not know what effect the over heating has on the properties of the wood even if you get to glue up the riser again. Will the wood lose some of its strength? I have not made a footed riser but made the riser with a large curve which basicly what you did but you put two curves in yours. I glue mine up and leave it on my workbench for 24 hours no heat. I have fixed a delaminated limb by inserting smooth on with a razor blade and the clamping it no heat just let it sit for 24 hrs. Has never come apart todate. You got to experiment that what a lot of this bow building is about.
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: RayMO on June 29, 2005, 06:48:00 PM: sidebuster...when I got home from work tonight the delamination was not visible at all. I guess when the stress was removed and the riser cooled down it came back together. I put the second overlay on with less pressure on the clamps and no heat.

Ray
Title: Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
Post by: Jeff Strubberg on June 30, 2005, 12:48:00 AM: Ray,

Check the other thread, I think I know what happened to your riser.