Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Dean Torges on March 25, 2007, 09:39:00 PM
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It's ambush bow time. I trust you are diligently fashioning this year's winning entry. The Challenge provides you an excellent opportunity to stretch your muscles and explore your craft. I know all the reasons not to enter. The biggest one is that you don't want to be embarrassed by doing poorly. I'm only guessing, of course. Having been surrounded by women all my life, from childhood through fatherhood and even into grandfatherhood, I've lost every semblance of pride any man might feel entitled to. Embarrassment and unworthiness are for me natural conditions, so fear of either is no hindrance to me.
C'mon, guys. Don't look at this challenge as though you have to defend your way of building bows. It's not that at all. Look at it as an opportunity to challenge yourself and to stir enthusiasm in the bowbuilding community. If you go down in flames, if you don't even meet your own expectations, if some wiry little know-nothing from Missourri trumps your best effort, so what? It's only your pride and self-respect on the line. And in the face of womanhood, what's that amount to?
And to all you women out there who aspire to have men acknowledge you and your talents, get busy shaving. Staves, that is. What reason can you give why a woman should not craft the winning entry? Imagine what a joy that would be.
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good thing you added the word "staves" dean!
i was sceered enough of just bieng out bowed!
now you say we have got to look out for talented hairy women!
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I love the ABC...but have a suggestion:
Any thought to making a bow challenge that will suit us knuckle-draggers (draw lengths greater than 31")? Or those with short arms (25" draw lengths)?
Seems like a moot point to redo the same competition year after year.
Thanks,
Brett
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Polished up my sheriff's badge. Waiting to make spur of the moment judgement calls...
Seriously, as I told Dean. I have a piece of the magic Tollhouse osage waiting for something special to happen. I hope work lets me have enough free time to enter a little darling of my own.
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Brett-
I suppose you have to look at the challenge in the spirit given. It's more about design and extracting the most out of the bow, given the parameters. You would be praised on high if your 58" entry would pull to your draw consistently and withstand the testing!
Now if you want to begin the knuckle draggers war bow challenge or say Mickey or Too Short wants to start the "draw length challenged" bow challenge, well go ahead and get it going! Just remember you need a panel of judges and some fabulous prizes! :readit:
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Rather than change bow styles, we're staying with the ABC for a variety of reasons. Other styles have been explored almost exhaustively, at least to the point that every bowyer has found his comfort zone within orthodox styles. Hardly true with the ambush bow. Its requirements are practical and highly desirable, exceeded only by the difficulty in attaining them. After one year, we've hardly become comfortable with these requirements or arrived at anything resembling a consensus on the best approach, whether it's wrt style, materials, wood choices or alternatives. In short, it's a wide open challenge.
The ABC is not about building bows you are comfortable building. It's a challenge for an elementary hunting bow, as simple as abc, and as difficult to achieve as any bow you have attempted. The criteria are practical, easily justified from field experience. A bow which meets them should be highly prized, not as a contest winner, but as a superb hunting weapon built for the wheelhouse of today's hunting archer. Last year a 75 year old man who couldn't even draw his entry came within half a point of tying for the top spot. Now that's the spirit of the challenge.
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This link (http://www.bowyersedge.com/ABC_06.html) will give you background perspective on the Challenge, and this link (http://www.bowyersedge.com/ABC_07.html) establishes the guidelines for the 2007 entry.
The TradGang bulletin board usually has an ABC buildalong thread or two and the Bowyer's Journal bulletin board has a section devoted to the challenge. Check them out. Join in.
This challenge provides the community—paleos to machinists, osage apologists to whitewood enthusiasts—an opportunity to leave behind any agendas, politics, preferences or preconceptions and join up for a romp. It was conceived in that spirit, like the original Olympic Games, where diverse parties from all directions came together in mutual respect for the pursuit of excellence.
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Dean, I don't have the first idea how to build a bow, but I didn't want you to feel alone... four years ago I was a proud manly man; now after marriage, a little girl, and one on the way, I'm only a shell my friend. :help:
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Mark, you are far enough along to be sympathetic, but you have a stretch to go before you fully understand. I was reared from earliest childhood by my mother and three much older sisters. Married and had four daughters. They in turn birthed four granddaughters. You don't want me to feel alone? For some reason, I just can't help it. I did have a neutered male cat around here for a while. We were tight. He died last spring.
PS, my daughters grew up in a house with one bathroom. Good thing for me we lived in the boonies in a woods.
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Oh my oh my Mr. Torges is at it again. Last yr I was nice and just laid in the weeds. I didn't want to embarrass any of 'em hot shot bowyers with the power of sinew and osage, for sinew is magic. Now that in itself is kinda cheating, it don't hardly seem fair to compare 'em whimpy bows to a sure nuff fire breathing bow eating, thunder and lightening power trashwood bow but if ya want to bring it on dude.
I'll see if I can't whittle down one of 'em trashwood fire breathers down to a measly 60# :)
rusty -sinew is magic- Craine
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carve a little wood, pound a little sinew and magic WILL happen -- Trashwood
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Oh this is getting good now!!! I knew ya couldn't resist too long Rutsy :bigsmyl:
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Oh dang I forget that Dean will be shooting these bows. I guess I better make one about half strength so the old geezer can get it back to his anchor :) I'd hate to get sued and have to buy him a herina belt.
Hee Hee I know I'll whittle one down to about 45# and just write 60# on the bow. then Dean'll think his so strong he'll take on 'em porkers with a pocket knife.
Sound like fun. I wonder who is gonna get second place????? :)
Dano - ya up to this? how ya been doing?
rusty
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These responses to the challenge reveal why I'm a huge Rutsy Craine fan. Passion melded to a keen appetite for fun. And here's another reason. On a trip to TX several years ago, Rusty, Lew and I stopped at a motel to clean up. Rutsy changed underwear. The pair he's holding up here (http://www.bowyersedge.com/images/Posts/holybvd.jpg) are the clean pair he changed into.
Welcome to the Challenge, Rutsy. So far, you are indeed the clear winner. Onliest bowyer so far to declare himself, in a style likely to run the rest of them off trembling, looking to hide in tall grass. And you in your ambush mode, waiting there. Pretty clever.
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Oh this is getting good.LOL.I can hardly wait for the next instalment.LOL. :clapper: :jumper: :jumper: :jumper:
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Man they just don't make 'em Hanes the way they used to. Not to fear, a little sinew patched and they were good to go for another 10 years. Dangit Dean! Now Hollywood will be calling me again to try and get me for the movies when they see that picture.
This afternoon I'll go up in the attic and get the bow. it's been drying there for a yr. I'll post ya some pics if it won't scare ya off. :)
Rusty -Hanes pressure tester- Craine
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I got one problem though. It is hard to ship 'em trashwood sinew back bows. The post office keeps trying to class them as a "weapon of mass destruction"! :goldtooth:
rusty
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There appears to be a lot of trash(wood) talkin going on already. ;)
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Don't talk about your bow too much Rusty. Homeland Security may be watching!
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Dean,
It's great that you participate in this public forum.
Might I suggest that it is equally difficult to build a 62" bow that will withstand a 32" draw (and not pinch the blood out of your fingers), as it is a 58" bow for 28".
Similarly, it's difficult to make a 54" bow for a 24" draw.
I'm 6'4", so 62" *IS* an ambush bow for me! :-)
Thanks,
-Brett
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I'm doin good Rutsy, Still workin your hind end off? I think I'll juss practice at makin bows a tad more, then enter when all ya old guys are in the ol folks home :bigsmyl:
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Got no argument with you, Brett, but if you will look back on the contest and its requirements, we are after a universal ambush bow, one that will suit the most hunters in the greatest variety of situations. My own draw length is 27, not 28. Bow design requirements are to an ideal, not to a person. This is a challenge beyond individuals. It is not a contest. It is a challenge to the bow itself, and only through that to the builder of the bow.
That said, draw length for longbows, unlike recurves or compounds, is an arbitrary matter, dependent upon shooting style and therefor in great part irrelevant to body size. You can make it whatever you want, even at your length of limb, because you can hold the bow to accommodate your intentions. Howard Hill thought 27" the perfect compromise after sifting through all concerns, so he made his draw length 27" and developed a loose-limb shooting style for the hunting bow that took advantage of that draw length.
In short, please don't let the requirements keep you from attempting an entry. It's good to "stretch" yourself. :-)
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(http://www.trashwoodbow.com/sinewabc/sinewabc1.jpg)
(http://www.trashwoodbow.com/sinewabc/sinewabc2.jpg)
(http://www.trashwoodbow.com/sinewabc/sinewabc3.jpg)
(http://www.trashwoodbow.com/sinewabc/sinewabc4.jpg)
(http://www.trashwoodbow.com/sinewabc/sinewabc5.jpg)
Oh dang I may have shot my mouth of too soon. I just don't know if this lousy piece of trashwood and that poor old sinew will make a shooter or not. oh well all I can do is try to salvage sumpin out of it......
HE HE HE! :biglaugh:
rusty
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Oh my!! That baby LOOKS FAST :thumbsup:
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Come on guys, don't let Rusty scare ya'all off, let's see your entries.
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If Rutsy's scarin' them off with that (a CarQuest fiberglass repair kit sized with a blunt-nosed grade school scissors that's white-pasted to a soda fountain chair leg), then I hope no one ever comes up to them through two eyeholes under a sheet and sez Boo!
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"Carve a little hood, pull a few stings, and sometimes men faint." --Houdino
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:bigsmyl: And the Drama BEGINS
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Rusty,
Looks like someone left your stave under a pigeon roost for too long.
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OH man I got problems. I brought the little dariling down out of the attic. I leaned her again the bedroom wall last night when I went to bed. Dang bow has got so much stored energy and potential the dang thing was glowing in the dark. Kept me awake half the night till I finally covered her up with a sheets.
I finally had to run two 18 gauge wires out of her and hook the house up to 'em just so I could drain enough energy off so I could get some sleep.
I can't say I blame 'em boyz for hidden out to the shed. I think we'as having some kinda nuclear fusion between the osage and sinew. Ya don't think call osage and sinew, thunder and lightening, for nothing do ya?? :)
rusty -sinew physicist- craine
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hey ya boyz look toward Texas can ya see that dang glow in da sky??? yep that's her :)
rusty
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BTW Dean I'll send ya instruction on how to shoot the little bow. Ya gonna have to getcha on of these
http://www.mineralab.com/Inspector.htm
Now just hook your house electrics up to her till ya get her down to about 18 millirems. She be safe for ya to shoot then for a little while. If ya don't shoot her enough and she charges back up ya gonna have to hook her to your counties electric grid. :)
rusty
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Looking forward to seeing all the new entries this year. Folks are off to a pretty good start. Thanks again to Dean for developing and continuing this challenge.
-Brian
www.bowyersjournal.com (http://www.bowyersjournal.com)
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Dean, your going to have to create a new catagory for Rusty's bow. :bigsmyl:
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No. Just a new category for Rutsy.
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:biglaugh: I really think Rusty is believing his own story. :biglaugh:
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Hey Linc........where is all the dang selfbowyers. I guess they all went to the Expo?
Dang I'm having to entertain myself here.???
rusty
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Dang, Rusty!!! I think ya sceered em all off. But hey if Deans willin ta make a whole new catagory just for you, what the heck, come on guys.
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well rusty i got that stave you gave me down to a blank and tillered to about fifteen inches as soon as wingnut gets some time were gonna but her on a caul
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Got me puzzled, too, Rusty. If this were a bbq competition, like Memphis in May, everyone who ever stuck a sharp stick in a piece of campfire meat would line up to enter the contest. Status, reputation, know-how—all irrelevant to the experience.
There will be an important announcement about the Challenge sometime next week, so be on the lookout. Meantime, some of you fellas who say you like classical archery for the personal challenge, well, ahhh......harumph...ah........geez, Louise.......uhhh..........
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Oh, my. LOL.
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Ooooooo I just got scared :)
rusty
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LOL :)
rusty
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I don't know where all the bowyers are? I'm in on the challenge once my back gets better. I'm a planning on the same idea I had for last years.With a few modifications I'm sure it will be shoe in for the top 5 bows. :bigsmyl:
Dean, I have Attention Deficit Disorder.(just ask my wife.LOL) I don't know if I can wait till next week.
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I know of more than a few who have accepted the Challenge this year and not yet announced themselves, but what's disappointing is that I know of more than a few who should but haven't. They sat the sidelines last year too. I don't know if they don't trust the spirit of the ABC, or if they question the judges, or if they simply doubt themselves. The truth is that there are no legit excuses if you love making organic bows. None. Jerry Ross blew most of the knee-bend excuses out of the water last year.
Frankly, I would love to see Tim Baker and some of his friends entertain such a bow. Some of the prominent posters on this forum, too. This Challenge transcends personalities, agendas, posturing, gurudom, belief systems and every other petty concern that only drives wedges between us. This is a sport to bring people together, a craft within it to bring them joy and self-satisfaction, and a Challenge within that to stretch their limits and have fun while simultaneously promoting the sport. Is there one person who picked up the Challenge last year who in his own estimation did not profit immensely from it?
Every time a squirrel timbers, do you think he requires assurances that he can make the branch on the adjacent tree?
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I'm in. My effort is shorter and has magic on the back. Interesting tip treatment too. I'll do a little something on the webpage about it in a couple months. It is definitely prettier than that guano covered thing Rusty posted :) I'm not sure where in the scoring matrix "pretty" fits in but I'm sure it's one of those intangibles that affect judge's scoring even if they won't admit it. I'm assuming Timo can't enter this year. If he can, I need to take a trip to MO to break his hands.
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PS, I know I have a reputation for being blunt and sometimes offensive, but I'm an optimist who loves the sport without preconceptions or conditions, and the simple truth of my record shows that I have neither time nor patience for those who pull in the other direction. That what make me so mean.
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Is that french vanilla frosting on Rusty's bow?
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I plan to give it a shot in the Self-Backed catagory. I have a little bow that I have back to about 24" that is one of the cleanest pieces of hedge I have ever come accross. I just hope she makes the weight....and the draw! It makes it a bit tough for us draw challenged bowyers. I have a 26 draw, and I know the bow will make that draw at exactly my shooting weight.........so do I keep working her out to the ABC specs, and risk breakage?....or do I just stop and keep it for myself?! Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. I wonder if that is the reason why a lot of the bowyers are laying in the weeds, perhaps many of the potential entries have yet to come back to those last critical inches of draw. The whole "Counting your chickens before they hatch" thing. I know I don't want to start struttin' before the bow does first!
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John, it's somewhere stated in the 2007 rules that the bowyer with the Grand Champion Bow from the previous Challenge receives an entry exemption. Gonna be that way every year. Tim is in, automatically, and it won't do to harm him now because from my understanding his entry is already complete.
Presentation skills? Dano, do I understand you correctly? You don't have a problem building the bow, but you can't take three uncluttered photos of it and in a paragraph outline it? And you an ABC sherriff, too? I've had good reason to doubt Leemans before, but you've been a stalwart. Until now. (Must be some misunderstanding. Must be what we have here is a failure to communicate.)
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I've seen Tim's entry, maybe that's why I'm skeered and lookin for any good excuse to stay out of the compitition :eek: :D
Yep!! A failure to comunicate ;)
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Dano, Will a lemonade talk you into competing? Or are you sticking to the administrative duties and don't want any conflicting interests?LOL.
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Yeah!! That's it "conflicting interests" :biglaugh:
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Dano,My friend,you kill me. :biglaugh:
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It's possible that the announcement next week may change your mind, Dano. If it doesn't, where do you keep your sherriff's badge? It's not sensible to have the bank watchdog chained up behind the bunkhouse.
HEaded for the WV Expo. See some of you there.
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I keep my badge pinned right over my heart, gives everybody a good spot to pick. :bigsmyl: And in my case it's prolly a good idea to keep me chained up out back, just so's the women customers might feel safer.
Seriously, I don't have the time to enter a bow this year with our move coming up. I for one feel I have gained a ton from last years challenge. Some of us need the challenge now and again.
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Dano, You moving to a bigger shop??? Why would you do that? :confused: Could you send your old shop to me? Pretty please?
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Yep, bigger shop w/air :goldtooth: I would send ya the old one but postage would kill us both. :(
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:( I'm afraid you're right.