Is it really about the equipment(save the bow) we use or is it more than that? To me traditional is pitting myself against my quarry with a stickbow, some arrows and my mind. A way of hunting, even a way of life. Now Im still a newbie by many standards, but it seems that this topic always comes up, so I figured I would start this thread for everyone to lay down their opinions on this subject.
My goal as a traditional hunter is a clean kill on whatever my quarry may be at that time. Instead of worrying about what is traditional to others I do what I need to do in order to achieve this goal.(And I admit freely...so far the animals are winning) :D
Since joining this site last year I have watched a thick layer of dust accumulate on my wheelie bow. I learned how to make arrows...wooden ones even.Im teaching myself to knap. I found and dusted off all of my father's old archery gear....bows, arrows, bhs even some vintage wwII camo.It is truly magical to walk the woods with these as I can no longer walk them with my father. I hunted trad only all season, and did not take a deer. Oh yeah, and I have met some of the best people I have yet to meet, and conversed with many more on here I hope to meet one day.
Eventually, I want to be out there with a self bow, hand made arrows, knapped heads...you see where Im headed. It is a journey for me, and I love every second of it. What does traditional mean to you?
For me, it has become a simple yet harder way of hunting and doing things. It means close shots, and getting close. More practice with my weapon also. More about communing with nature and thinking about what I'm doing.
Nice doublewhopper...I guess thats along the lines of what I was trying to put out there.
Traditional to me, means honoring the quarry, whatever it may be, and pursuing it in all fairness. The extent of your challenge is purely up to you.
A bow with no wheels, or locking back into cocked mode, is what is required at this site.
Hunt sharp and true.
Killdeer :thumbsup:
"traditional" can fall into all kind of different things, and i certainly can't pin out what makes someone traditional and the next guy/girl not traditional. apart from what killdeer pointed out.
i think a lot of people are to concerned about what others are goin to see them as, rather than then doin what YOU want to do and using the gear YOU want to use and hunt the way YOU want to hunt..
its a topic that interests me and it is always interesting to see others points of veiw..
what is traditional? what is ethical? difficult questions, and i think its for the individual the to decide
I have met some great folks along the way most of them from this site. I love hunting with my long bow and arrows that i have fashioned myself, getting prepared for the season is fun all by itself sharpening my broad heads making sure each and every one will do the job it was intended to do. When i hunt alone i kind of go into my own little world doing things the way they were done in the past, when successful it makes it so much more enjoyable then it was for me before i took up traditional. I had all but given up hunting small game now i look forward to every day i can hunt those little critters. The best part for me is when my son is walking by my side with his longbow, just the other day we were out together and i was watching him walk along. I must of had a silly looking grin on my face and i was chuckling a little , he looked at me and said "what" I replied oh nothing, he wouldn't understand yet. I have him well on the way to a traditional way of life someday he will thank me I'm sure. So far it has been a great experience for the two of us.
Simply this for me:
1) A bow, no letoff, no wheels or cams, no sights, no release aids.
2) Arrows, not darts, not bolts.
3) Placed precisely in the quarry at reasonable speed and reasonable efficiency at a reasonable range.
4) As silent and unobtrusively as possible.
Any bow and arrow that meets these requirements for me makes me "traditional" in my mind. And that's where tradition meets reality - in your mind.
Danny
Ethical-A way to take down my game in a manner that they do not have to suffer.
To me, the switch to traditional meant no longer focusing on " trophies" and the kill, but rather the experience. I still consider myself a trophy hunter, but the end result has lost much of it's importance. The method in which I harvest the animal now means more to me than the actual kill.
See, this is what I mean. Almost everyone can relate to these answers. Good stuff....keep it coming.
Hunting with "Traditional Archery Gear" celebrates the human condition. Simple, lightweight, very effective once mastered. Brings out the best in us. Takes us back to a time when we were more at home in the woods.
That's what it means to me..... Oh Yea..... It puts back the "hunt" in hunting.
... mike ...
Traditional Archery "Excites The Spirit". that is written on a license plate I bought from 3Rivers and pretty much sums it up for me.
For me is......., I better not say anything, stay out of trouble :bigsmyl: :bigsmyl:
Nice thread Jamie. I have nothing to add yet. Maybe you can start it again this time next year.
Brian
(http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g38/trapperDave/th18iii.gif)
ok maybe I do...traditional is a state of mind.
Not gonna get in trouble northshore...No one is right or wrong.
I think there is a mutual feeling here within this sport...regardless of what equipment is or isnt used...so far the posts are encouraging this train of thought.
Thanks Brian.
I cannot see how any thing that involves metal contraptions hanging in trees is traditional. I am not saying they should be outlawed, but when some are hanging a half a dozen out in public lands, they are asking intervention from states to limit there use and application procedures.
I've considered doing a story about this one. Traditional, to me, denotes challenge, most of all, and the acceptance....or rather embracing of that and any challenge one may want to make or take on the journey. There is some basic equipment stuff, really basic, IMO. Beyond the bow, a recurve, longbow, or selfbow, any traditional equipment made today does'nt really help the archer any...homemade stuff is as good in qualified hands as the best stuff made out of high tech components. The physical aspect of shooting trad stuff negates itself in the hunt. If you worry too much about gear, you lose your focus in the field.
But the challenge, and the embracing of it are the essence of what trad is. As a trad bowhunter, I would gladly give up treestands, alum or carbon arrows, camo, etc. - whatever was necessary to pursue game legally with my bow. If I had to. Because I like the challenge, and I know that success - as in game taken in such a challenge- is all the sweeter.
As trad bowhunters, we have the distinct advantage of being able to challenge ourselves, at whatever level, to keep the hunt new and exciting. To prime our desires...
It does concern me when folks accept a basic challenge....like shooting a trad bow, but then do everything possible, because it's legal to do so, to make it so that they don't have to overcome it with their own abilities....does that make sense? I think that is what offends most true trad people. And those that try to "do it", without "doing it"....their attempts are so transparent, and yet they many times don't realize it. I have no problems with folks that need a crutch, really, to participate, especially when such participation is an inspiration in itself.
Traditional is about the journey, and the challenges make the journey, and the journey defines the accomplishment we seek. Why did'nt I just say that in the first place? :bigsmyl:
For me it started out for the challenge and became a means of personal satisfaction. The skills you develop are yours. They're not bought, they're not adjusted with a wrench, and they can't be copied or mass produced. You've nurtured them, you've developed them, and by the time you've aquired them, you've earned them.
Mark....Very well said!!!
Laddy, I get where you are coming from. I view treestands, and even groundblinds and pop up blinds, as a tactic. Then again, getting a nice deer on the ground without either would be a heck of a memory.
Mark, well said. I think trad bowhunting is chosen for the challenge first with most of us.
Molson, very good point. If you are successful with trad and no one can take that away. Congrats on that brute again.
"It does concern me when folks accept a basic challenge....like shooting a trad bow, but then do everything possible, because it's legal to do so, to make it so that they don't have to overcome it with their own abilities....does that make sense? I think that is what offends most true trad people. And those that try to "do it", without "doing it"....their attempts are so transparent, and yet they many times don't realize it."
"Traditional is about the journey, and the challenges make the journey, and the journey defines the accomplishment we seek."
With all due respect, how can you reconcile those two statements? If "traditional" is a journey, then why would you be concerned with what particular stage someone else happens to be at within theirs?
Simply put, traditional has much more to do with what is held in the heart than what is held in the hand.
Merry Christmas.
Lenny
For me I do not care to be labeled as traditional or otherwise. But it is among those that are called traditional archers that I feel most accepted. I personally hunt barebow because it is an instrument that requires me to practice daily to achieve a level of skill that would make me confident in the taking of the life of another animal. For me it's all about putting in the effort. The journey. Without struggle I can not grow. I don't want things that are gonna make my hunt easier. The more difficult the challenge the sweeter the reward. That is why I hunt from the ground, only public land, no agricultural fields just timber. I have exclusive access to hundreds of acres of private farmlands and woodlands that I will not hunt. I have set a higher personal standard. What is traditional? I really don't know or care. What I do know is that in the way that the word is used today it is an indicator that helps me to find others that think similarly to me. Most that call themselves traditional, enjoy the challenge as I do. Maybe at different levels but there is still that need to challenge oneself. We respect those that came before us and the challenges they have overcome. We share that feeling of satisfaction knowing we have overcome some challenge we had set for ourselves. We put our time in. We handcraft certain things(arrows, points,bows, etc.) to help in our pursuit of our intended quarry. And the spirit soars in us when we've done well.
to me, traditional is trying to emulate a mountain lion on a hunt, just swapping teeth and claws for a sharp 2 blade broad head arrow propulsed 100% by my muscles, without help from wheels, pop-up blinds, scentlock, electronic game callers, scents, etc... on and on and on and on.... :)
For me I needed a change,I had a bow for 3ds a bow for spots and a bow for hunting.I don't own a wheel bow anymore,Sure I have passed on a huge bear and a few nice whitetails but thats fine.I have been shooting trad for 3yrs now and have made some great friends along the way.Who am I to judge what trad is to someone else,its all good to me,It could be a metal riser bow or a site on it thats fine but for me it was to keep it as simple as I could.I just wish I never stoped shooting my recurve years ago..ED
Thanks Jamie. You're well on your way to your first big game success. Once you reach it, oh boy, you're hooked. It's an incredible feeling to see all that hard work come together in one brief moment of perfection!
It never goes away either. Every day spent in the woods with a stickbow is an adventure.
The only thing the bothers me is the wording, or the missuse of words.
I really don't care the choice of equipment wether is compound, metal bow, recurve or wood bow.
It seems to me that there's a great need to label and feel part of a certain group, elite or not.
first of all I don't think compound is archery, I don't care if it propels an arrow, you can make a cannon with strings inside to propel a shaft, and that is what a compound feels to me.
Under the definition of archery to me fall the metal bows and modern recurves and longbows, why is there a need to call it traditional ?...archery is such a beautiful word on it's own.
on the other end of the spectrum are the wooden bows, tradidion has to mean more of what was going on 50 years ago, the Chet Stevensen, Pope and Young type of archery is to me more close to the meaning of the word tradition than the modern bow and certanly the metal ones with all those gadgets.
Again I've nothing against who choses that equipment.
I can even see a glass bow without the shelf cut and therefore shot like the old timers ones being incorporated into the traditional umbrella.
I mainly shoot wood bows and still never ever referred to myself as a traditional bowhunter, always as an hunting archer, as the word is used today it just feel funny to use it.
Told you I could get myself in trouble :bigsmyl: :bigsmyl:
OK, honest confession. Several years ago, before I even looked at the internet or traditional sites, before I read "Traditional Bowhunter" or knew anyone else shooting "traditional" equipment I picked up a recurve and started using it. Point is, I wasn't traditional. I just used what I liked.
I DO RESPECT, but don't completely understand, the whole desiring the "more challenging" way. I started using a stick bow because it was easier in it's own way. I may be the only one, but it was frustrating keeping up with my release, keeping the cams and what not tuned, keeping the robotic rest from making noise. Do you get my point? Those bows are heavy, noisy, bulky and not user friendly. I had/wanted to practice all the time anyway, so that's no different.
Nothing else changed about me or in me. It is still as challenging as ever to pattern movements, pick stand location, etc. I use treestands sometimes, ground blinds sometimes, camo all the time, scents sometimes. The game still usually wins. I'm still me, no more pure, no more defiled. Just like a simple stick and string.
I like you guys, all of you, but I think sometimes we just take a different bus to the same destination.
Traditions are what we were taught
and are being built with and through our kids/proteges.
Archery is what we share in common.
So to me, traditional archery is: carrying on the traditions of the learning and teaching of what it is we love to share.
Tradition is about simplifying.To me it is anyway.Id say it was about doing it the hard way but thats Treds line and if you look at all of the hero pics this year it looks like someone forgot to tell us that it was so hard. But you know something?Like Jamie said there are some good people left in the world and a lot of them are TradGang members and non member trad shooters of which Ive had the pleasure of meeting and shooting with some of them.Trad makes you smell the roses (or pine needles at least.
I use the B and G rule....if it good enough...for Barry and Gene...it is good enough for me. For those newbies...that may not know ....those are the Wensel Brothers.
I shoot a trad bow,DAS,because it requires a different level of commitment to master than my compound did.Even though it is metal with high tech limbs it takes the same degree of skill to shoot well as any other trad bow.
It isn't about the equipment to me.It's about a sense of personal accomplishment.I didn't choose trad because it is the hard way.I think chose trad because it isn't the easy way.
Took me a while to catch up...had to feed the boy and squeeze in some shopping. A lot of very good, valid points. I think each point speaks a bit to all of us, for all of us. Personally, I do find hunting(atleast carrying as I have had no shots yet) with my lb alot more enjoyable and even easier than all the widgets and dodads needed for my compound.
I think there is something special about the challenge of closing the distance, and making the shot. Its all on you, so to speak.
I may not know all the ins and outs yet, but I think I have started a very long trad career.
:wavey:
:archer:
I prefer a good recurve to any other bow...My weapon of choice so to speak...Wether that makes me traditional or not I don't know and don't care...I just like my bow... :bigsmyl:
Simplicity, and can watch the arrow in flight. Along with all the other great comments.
QuoteI found and dusted off all of my father's old archery gear....bows, arrows, bhs even some vintage wwII camo.It is truly magical to walk the woods with these as I can no longer walk them with my father.
Traditional, is both a state of mind and a phyical thing.
Ishiwannabe the quote above is about as trad as you can get. Going back to camo and gear that your father once used is taking his tradition a step further in time.
It reminds me of a story once told to me about a person who was dying and before he did he asked his friend or son or somebody close to walk through the world for him. "I'm not going to be their to see it, or hear it, or feel it so you are going to have to do it for me," he related. "Through you I will still be their with you."
To me that is kind of how I feel. I do it in a way that I feel others may have done it before me. I'm not sure how right I am, but I think of the many people that went before me and hope that through me some of them still go on. I's not just the bow or the arrow, but the walk with nature and through the past toward the present on into the future I hope.
This may seem strange to some, but I think of it often and hope I can instill it into my children and grandchildren.
For me "traditional" has become just archery without wheels.
When I started shooting we only had recurves and nobody shot longbows.
Back then I used to feel I was one of "the few" who had the skill and commitment to shoot and hunt with a bow and arrow.
Then came the compound,and over night anybody could shoot a bow.
That kind of knocked me off my high horse a bit,but I carried on shooting my recurve anyway.
For a long time I was considered by other archers to be a bit odd for staying with recurve when everybody else was using compounds,but I just prefer them more,and in my own mind at lest," I'm still one of the few.
I don't use the word traditional anywhere other than on line,because I relate traditions to culture and I don't see modern archery as being a part of any culture anywhere.
Quite frankly you can't make up a tradition,,,but that's just what traditional archery is,,,,totaly made up in the modern world to imitate an ideal that probably never was.It certainly wasn't "traditional" when I started shooting 35 years ago,so I don't see why I should call it traditional now,,,after all,,,it wasn't me that changed.
QuoteOriginally posted by ishiwannabe:
Is it really about the equipment(save the bow) we use or is it more than that? To me traditional is pitting myself against my quarry with a stickbow, some arrows and my mind. A way of hunting, even a way of life. Now Im still a newbie by many standards, but it seems that this topic always comes up, so I figured I would start this thread for everyone to lay down their opinions on this subject.
My goal as a traditional hunter is a clean kill on whatever my quarry may be at that time. Instead of worrying about what is traditional to others I do what I need to do in order to achieve this goal.(And I admit freely...so far the animals are winning) :D
Since joining this site last year I have watched a thick layer of dust accumulate on my wheelie bow. I learned how to make arrows...wooden ones even.Im teaching myself to knap. I found and dusted off all of my father's old archery gear....bows, arrows, bhs even some vintage wwII camo.It is truly magical to walk the woods with these as I can no longer walk them with my father. I hunted trad only all season, and did not take a deer. Oh yeah, and I have met some of the best people I have yet to meet, and conversed with many more on here I hope to meet one day.
Eventually, I want to be out there with a self bow, hand made arrows, knapped heads...you see where Im headed. It is a journey for me, and I love every second of it. What does traditional mean to you?
Well said ! I have always thought that way. We did all been out of shape and stuck on "the bow" but yet we hunt out of modern tree stands, modern ground blinds.
And we forget about the attitude of the hunter, and how he takes his quarry. It's not about the equipment, it's about the attitude of how that equipment is used.
We have a generation of young people that don't even know what a longbow is ! And we get all focused on traditional equipment and we shoot a recurve, I am not saying anything against a recurve, but when you think about it, when was the recurve introduced. You see, it's not about the equipment, it's about the attitude of the hunter and how that equipment is an extension of himself.
Pastor Carl
Thanks everyone. Im just trying to explain the hows ans whys for me.
For me, traditional archery has alot to do with thousands of years of history, the magic in the shooting of a bow by feel, and the great people in the sport.
"everybody bickers over trad or not issues but its still archery to me"...from the song "its still ar-cher-y to me"...by me
I have questioned, and it will be like what is traditional. Let's try this one;
If you have traditional bow, and it's made out of wood, and you're in a tree stand " is that traditional hunting"
I hunt with the traditional bow " sometimes " I do still hunt with that other kind. I am fortunate for the past eight weeks I had been hunting in tree stands, never did that before, always on the ground, up until 2002, I never hunted in a double bull, " is hunting in a double bull traditional?"
Do you see where I'm going. You see when I stepped into the woods even with my other bow, I'm still a traditional hunter, I may have some different components on that bow, but the traditional hunter is in the mind, not any equipment. Sometimes I feel I'm cheating, when I'm in a tree stand, or double bull, but it's all in the attitude of what " traditional hunting" you could even say that using a black powder gun is traditional hunting.
When you step in the woods and if you are relying on your equipment you are not a traditional hunter, but if you're relying on the skill to use that equipment it's a different story. The attitude of the hunter is that he beats his wildlife in its own environment, on its own turf. To me that is traditional hunting, yes you get some guys that think that equipment is everything. But they're only fooling themselves.
My idea is that your archery equipment becomes an extension of you, and you're traditional hunting becomes a way to implement the outcome of that hunt. I have always had to forget about what other people think. People think that I'm weird because I turned down big bucks and go after matriarch doe's. " Traditional hunting" is an attitude no matter what you have in your hand. If you have the attitude that you can bop into the woods for 45 minutes, fill your tag and walkout, you might as well buy a so-called hunting video. Save yourself some $$$$.
So again " what he is traditional hunting"
it's not the equipment, it's the attitude of how you use that equipment.
Pastor Carl
I have been reading all the posts, thinking, "Why didn't I say that? Yeah, that is what I shoulda said!" I have seen post after post echoing what my heart has kept close.
The result is a feeling that archery is very healthy in today's modern world. People are out there who treasure old ways, basics of hunting, family, and (eek!) ethics. Archery and hunting contain as many facets as there are people. That I have seen as many purely good hearts in one thread, let alone in one site, has made me a bit less apt to fall prey to depression, brought about by a general malaise affecting modern culture as portrayed by popular media. Thanks for the best Christmas present one could give me. I am honored to be here.
Killdeer
Well said Killdeer....I think thats what I have been trying for with all of these posts. I started this with the intention of it heading this way....I wasnt expecting it to come together so well. It does give one hope....pride...an overall sense of belongig to something special.
Interesting question and a lot of interesting responses.
I've always held the game I pursue in the highest respect and I've always tried to hunt in ways that put me close. I've never taken game with any type of gun or bow beyond 20 yards. My successes or failures in the field have always been based on the experience of the outing rather then the quantity or quality of the game taken.
I really can't say that using one hunting tool vs. another has ever made me feel more spiritual or in tune with nature than another. The bow or gun I carry is just a tool. The real experience for me is still just being there, existing in nature regardless of what I have in my hand
Picking up a traditional bow didn't change my ideology but perhaps my ideology is what caused me to migrate to the traditional bow.
Am I traditional? Some will say I am and some will say I'm not. I don't know; I just am what I am.
I think about this entire traditional thing all the time and I can't say that I have ever reach a concrete conclusion of what it is...or isn't. About the only thing that I have convinced myself of is that traditional archery is a matter of degree as opposed to a specific kind.
I'm fairly sure that shooting a "traditional" bow doesn't neccesarily make you a "traditionalist". To choose a stick bow because it represents "the hard way' and then shoot a carbon arrow out of it seems to represent a conflict of ideas. On the other hand, we should strive to be as good a shot as possible for the game we seek in terms of responsibility and ethics. Perhaps our equipment choices represents our comfort zone on self limitation more than it does a replication of history.
I think todays traditionlism has it's origins in the 1980's traditional revolution as opposed to the 'real' history of an actual era. The 1980's was a revolution of sorts against the compound bow as opposed to the arrows or accessories of the time....at least that's the way I see it.
I guess I shoot a high performance Black Widow recurve with a carbon arrow (most of the time) as a matter of simplification. I think traditionlism can be honored as whatever the individual defines it...without neccesarily replicating the actual equipment used in the past given a certain era.
Traditional bowhunting for me is a rekindling of the spirit of the hunting experience. I've been bowhunting for over 30 years and a traditional bowhunt is joining family and friends I've hunted with for many years. It's a tradition to hunt together on opening day, it's a tradition for my two sons and I to stop at McDonalds on the way to our cabin, it's a tradition for us to fry up fresh deer heart if someone is successful, the list goes on and on. We make OUR OWN traditions! Traditional bowhunting is for each of us to decide. I choose to include a longbow or recurve in my traditional bowhunt, others may not. Defining a traditional bow is a whole other topic!
Traditional for me is about the bare essentials in equipment, coupled with a deep heart/mind commitment. It is about wood and leather and turkey fletchings. It is about dew on my shoes, and the scent of sage in the air, and the line of my people going back into pre-history. That is my reality and my passion.
Bows without cables and wheels......
Compound bows are the reason for the 'traditional' term being coined.....not arrows or materials used to make arrows, or materials to make bows, or some new quiver, arm guard, or broadhead. The compound bow drew the line. IMO.
Mine has been a long and complex journey. In some ways I feel very similar to the rest of you, but in others I feel very much different.
I do not look down on using a compound, as I still do sometimes. Will I always....I don't know? Regardless of weapon in hand, bowhunting means getting up close and just because I have a bow capable of killing deer far away, doesn't mean I take those shots. I've always believed in trying to attain a proficiency level and shot selection such that the shot is as close to a "given" as one can get. I don't feel it can ever be reached, but trying is what makes it interesting. Returning back to trad gear has left me reaching even harder to obtain that goal. I hope I can get close to a level that I was with a wheeled bow. Time will tell.
One thing I know for sure, traditional shooting is a blast. I shot my compound cause I had to, I shoot my trad bows because I want to.
I believe Terry's got it right. Dead on. Lot's of things make you who you are as an archer. The one tie that binds and defines us is the advent of the compound bow. Almost anyone when hearing the term "traditional" immediately invisions a bow without wheels.
All other traditions are personal. "Traditional" has many definitions but this newest definition is the one that defines who we are as a group and why tradgang exists.
QuoteAll other traditions are personal. "Traditional" has many definitions but this newest definition is the one that defines who we are as a group and why tradgang exists.
I agree completely. I am very glad that I was introduced here. This site made learning how to tune, shoot and care for a wooden bow. The amount of stuff I have learned here in a single year is nothing other than amazing. Trad Gang is a very important part of the traditional experience for me, as a relatively new convert. I have yet to have a question go unanswered. It TG wasnt here, I might not be shooting trad only at this point. for that all I can do is :thumbsup: and say thanks to all.
I think that being traditional is a luxury as far as hunting goes. If you were relying on the hunt to feed your family, then you would use whatever you could to make your kill. Trad definitely is the attitude. The native americans used rifles as soon as they were available to hunt with. Didn't change their attitude, just their methods. If they could have got their hands on a compound bow and carbon arrows, you can bet your butt they would have used it and who could blame them? They ran herds of buffalo over cliffs for food, but did it with respect and gratitude. Today trad seems to mean, how did my father and grandfather do it. Not because they had to, but because they wanted to. Maybe its more about the memories.The time when we were coming up. Nostalgia is very powerful. Attitudes were different. Things were simpler in a lot of ways.I think that trad is a luxury that a lot of us are grateful we can afford. Although some of us are much more luxurious than others! IMHO.
Brian :campfire:
I shoot and hunt with a recurve and a longbow and refer to my bows as just that- a recurve and a longbow, not "traditional" bows. Rather than calling my bows "traditional" and risk being labeled an "elitist, traditional snob", my preference is to be labeled a "snobby, elitist traditionalist" for referring to modern compound bows as "non-traditional" bows. Either way, I'm viewed as "one of those arrogant traditionalists" for having the audacity to shoot a bow similar in design and function to bows first used by early Mesolithic man.
It`s a feeling, a good feeling. Shooting my bow because its fun, not because I "have to practice".
Dipping, cresting, and fletching up some beautiful arrows, and my wife sets them on her piano because they are as beautiful as wild flowers.
Its finding your kids shooting their recurves, while they have brand new decked out compound bows hanging, collecting dust. (again,...more fun)
A bright red blood trail, created by an arrow I built, and a broadhead that I sharpened.
Handing my bow to a compound shooter, and watching their eyes light up.
Shooting a foot over a bucks back one day, and taking a squirrel in the eye the next.
Settling into a ground blind, knowing my chances for a kill are better in a tree.
I can go on and on,... and on.
to me its just getting out there and having fun dont matter if ya dont get an animal its all about being there. having fun with mates or ya best mate the 4 legged kind.and most of all being safe. :thumbsup: :archer:
Brian, good point. Technology has been sought for hundreds, thousands of years.
Labs....thats just too funny.
Bone...is nice to watch the wheelie guys scrunch their face up at first and then ask if they can shoot it.
Jeff....its all about the fun brother.
There is a good article in the Feb/Mar issue of Traditional Bowhunting that offers some insight along these lines of discussion.
"Natural Predators" A Plea for Consistency
In the context of the term "traditional archery" it was not used or needed until the compound device came into use. That settles it for me.
I am new to traditional hunting, but the difference I feel between the to differ kinds
of bows is like no other the feel you have out there is hard to explain but I sure you guy get it.
George S.:
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
That's precisely my point. In my view there is only archery and NON-traditional archery. I do not feel that recurve and longbow shooters should be saddled with the onus to create a separate classification for bows that have been around for 10,000+ years.
As I mentioned in a previous post, I shoot a recurve and a longbow. People who shoot bows with wheels, cables and cams shoot NON-traditional bows.
What is the diffence between high tech chemical compound glues, fiberglass,aluminum arrows, carbon arrows and machinery to improve performance, and wheels, cables and cams to improve performance? Frankly, most of the bows that I see in this forum were not around 10,000 years ago. Isn't it just a matter of degrees of difference? I just can't picture a man 10,000 years ago seeing a Black Widow bow for the first time saying "nope, can't shoot that,too hi tech, not trad enough. I think I'll stick with my stick". I'm not sure that I understand the animosity towards archery evolution. Its simply a personal choice. If I were hungry, the choice would be easy.Since I'm overweight, I'll go trad.
I've read every post and there is much wisdom to be digested. There are a couple things for me. First, the argument that "if they would have had it they would have used it" fails. They didn't have it so they used what was available and learned to use it successfully....or starved. We aren't likely to starve.
I like to do things the old way. I shoot a recurve or longbow, often vintage, my muzzleloaders are flintlocks and my fly rods are bamboo, often vintage, and my fly line is often silk. I honor and venerate the woods skills our forbears had and find it sad that so many today use the modern high-tech stuff because "it's so much easier", (I can't tell you how many times I've heard that line). I disdain compounds and in-line muzzleloaders with all their gadgets and gizmos for that very reason. If that makes me an elitist, so be it. I much prefer to call it a purist. Technology can't be substitued for skill and knowledge and that's what the marketers are doing, successfully it appears.
If the way I hunt and fish and my choice of tools can be called traditional then evidently I am. I do it because it increases the challange, makes the journey much more meaningful and the taste of successes are much sweeter.
I just like to do things the old way. If it were easy, everyone would do it....and I don't much care for crowds.
I didn't do a very good job.....for me this is a difficult thing to express exactly....ain't sure it can be expressed exactly!
Vic
harps4590:
You did a fine job of expressing your perspective. And to paraphrase your point- although many of us consume what we kill, most of us do not hunt to survive as Mesolithic man was forced to do. Following in the footsteps of Pope, Young, Bear, Hill, et al, we originally chose to walk this path for the challenge. At least we originally used the notion of this SELF-IMPOSED CHALLENGE to convince wildlife agencies to give us significantly longer hunting seasons than those who chose to hunt with less challenging weapons. With regard to this pursuit of CHALLENGE, the recurves and longbow I shoot today - high tech glue or not - are no less CHALLENGING to shoot than bows used thousands of years ago.
Left unchecked, "Degrees of difference" most often have the effect of taking us further away from our established goals. I believe that all too often, bowhunters forget - or worse, enter the woods without ever knowing - what that original goal was. If someone truly believes that cams, cables, triggers, laser sights and 85% let-offs, (which is really just a way to reduce the CHALLENGE and effort associated with physically holding the full weight of a bow by 85%, isn't it?) are "degrees of difference" that are good for bowhunting, in my experience there is no convincing that person otherwise.
I often wonder how many bowhunters would be in the woods today if the non-traditional bow was never invented?
Nicely said Labs. I'm not sure how many hunters would be in the woods if they had to hunt with the bows of the distant past. These weapons were primitive. Not to mention arrows and stone points. There is a huge difference between modern trad bows and bows of even primitive tribes of today, no less thousands of years ago when the established goal was still to kill game. IMO. This discussion is fascinating!Thanks.
Well said Vic !
It means friends and good times and shooting whatever you wish as long as it does not have cables and wheels I could care less what ya shoot and even less what ya think of what I shoot, to me it is about everything and more than has been written above. Shawn
I am seeing more and more about feelings, instincts, and following the footsteps of others. It makes me lean towards the fact that it isnt equipment at all...
Remember, I started this thread asking what you define as traditional, and why. Im not bashing wheelies, modern stick bows, or anything. I know traditional was coined after the invention of the compound, but it is a word strictly associated with stickbows and the like today....before that, we were all just bowhunters.
AWESOME RESPONSES EVERYONE!
Well after reading all these posts, and looking at the original question of "What do you define as traditional, and why." you have a loaded question there ishi....It has stimulated some good thought provoking emotions out there too.
I started into this "Traditional form of archery" about the same time you did last year. I've considered my self an archer and a bow hunter for many years prior though...The coined phrase "traditional bow" or "Traditional Archery" was born with the evolution of of the modern compound bow. in 1973 Martin even came up with a half recurve, half cam bow called a "Dyna Bow"....i had one myself not long ago hanging on the wall....very few of them exist today, because most of them eventually blew up and came apart.....Terry hit it on the nose...that was where the line was drawn between the two....
I myself, like you James, have opened up a door into the past it seems....Alice through the looking glass if you will....
Trad Gang was my introduction into a fascinating and wonderful group of people that have chosen to fore go the modern evolution of the compound bow, and have given traditional archery many different meanings in many ways....It was a truly humbling experience for me to abandon one of the fastest compound bows in the world, and pick up a twisted up old Ben Pearson for the first time.... The adventure so far has taken me to the roots of my skill as a craftsman, as well as back to the very roots of my woodsman ship skills necessary to hunt with a stick and string. I have revived the very essence of my father....my grand father, and his grandfather before him.... i believe in my case...the word "traditional" fits nicely with archery for me right now.... Where will it go from here? Awwwww...but i love a good mystery
i will write more later....my bowl of beans is getting cold.....Kirk
Nice journey isnt it Kirkll??
Good beans! The old fashion navy bean soup with a rasher of home grown bacon, and a bit of something else i'm unsure of.....excellent meal! Just add corn bread....
i don't intend to carry on much longer with my post here. but i feel the need to add a few things. I am stuck in an ever changing society with the rest of you folks out there. the modern world we live in is so fast paced, and just eking out a living seems much more complicated than it needs to be. its so easy to get caught up in the flow, you take for granted the simple things in life some times. Traditional archery, and going back to basics is a great escape for me....it makes you appreciate things more too...i have always worked my hands in wood...to make a living, and to search my soul as well.... the challenge to your skill level as you slowly become a master is intriguing, but not paramount. its your thought processing and the patience you obtain during the journey that is important most to me....whether it be building a bow from a stave and using sinew for backing, or using modern day shop equipment to build the glass laminate bows....its a fascinating trade all unto itself.....just the physics alone is mind boggling....even to an experienced woodworker....
Over the last year i have been in a constant state of being humbled by this adventure into traditional archery. The comments i received from others over the last year that this "traditional archery can be more than just shooting arrows with no sites or wheels, It can be a whole way of life for some." This i have heard from many folks now and was absolutely right....
Is it just using a bow without wheels and no site pins?
Is it a state of mind?
Is it a challenge?
Is it an escape to nature?
A personal boycott of the evolution of archery perhaps?
Is it a humbling spiritual enlightenment?
I'm thinking this hits the highlights for most folks that frequent this site....but traditional archery is what ever you want it to be.....
for me personally...all of the above. Kirk
QuoteOriginally posted by ishiwannabe:
Nice journey isnt it Kirkll??
The journey has only just begun my friend....
life is but a circle inside a circle....an occasional tangent gives you better perspective of the limitless possibilities we hold in our hands....Kirk
"A personal boycott of the evolution of archery" I like this description of traditional archery! No more needs to be said. I will use your words in the future, if it is all right with you? :)
Feel free Matt....that is exactly what brought me into the traditonal world....The modern archey equipment has evolved into class unto itself i'm affraid....it was fun for awhile...
You can climb in a jet sled and roar up the rivers these days at 50 miles an hour too if you want, and it's a blast!.....
i just prefer paddling a canoe, and watching an arrow in flight these days.....Kirk
Well said kirk,jonesy
Using the internet to share ideas is part of the evolution of archery. Just think about the resource tradgang is and the world that opens up because of it. To learn things about traditional archery. To access wood species and equipment that you wouldn't easily have access to, is the evolution of archery.To be able to make your equipment better, and more effective. To be able to learn things from people all around the world. To draw new people to the tradition,to make it stronger, bigger and better is the evolution. I, too love the things that Kirk loves.
Can't avoid the evolution if archery, we are all part of it. Maybe we just want to stop at wheels and pulleys.
traditional to me is pitting your instinct against your quarries instinct. Of course I use a longbow and whatever arrow I can get to do the job. Be it woodies or high-tech carbons! It seems that equipment dictates "traditional". The hunting instinct is the same whether you use stick, wheel, or fire-stick! It's the mentality that changes!
Kirk....I wish you and I were neighbors!
Vic
QuoteOriginally posted by horatio1226:
Using the internet to share ideas is part of the evolution of archery. Just think about the resource tradgang is and the world that opens up because of it. To learn things about traditional archery. To access wood species and equipment that you wouldn't easily have access to, is the evolution of archery.To be able to make your equipment better, and more effective. To be able to learn things from people all around the world. To draw new people to the tradition,to make it stronger, bigger and better is the evolution. I, too love the things that Kirk loves.
Can't avoid the evolution if archery, we are all part of it. Maybe we just want to stop at wheels and pulleys.
Nicely put Brian....i humbily admidt my love for this web site and all the companionship and knowlege i've gleaned here...maybe you are right in that respect concerning of the evolution of archery.... this is pretty darn nice to sit in my chair in Oregon and chat with folks all over the world that share my passion for this sport and other outdoor activities.... :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:
I try to always keep an open mind...even if i am an opininonated old cuss at times....
Hey Vic.....I never seen the ozarks before...maybe i'll come visit you some time.
i took a trip to illinois this fall to do my first white tail hunt with Jonesy....Wow! talk about culture shock! i got a story coming up on that trip i'm writting....
Kirk
It's a mentality, my dear friend. Not the equipment one has, but what's in their mind, heart, and soul.
When someone opens their home and hunting grounds to new hunters; to me, that's traditional. When a veteran hunter reveals a secret spot, or that crucial, game-getting piece of advice, to a novice; to me, that's traditional. When a person finds solice in caring for their weapon like an old friend, or when someone kneels to say prayer for fallen game; to me, that's traditional.
But mostly...it's when one can enjoy the hunt itself, to truly savor it, more than the taking of actual game. That's what I'd like to think of as "traditional".
Bowspirit is a great name for you.Beautiful.
Very well said Chris. So when ya coming down to chase bunnies? I am looking into a Thursday night up on Central...
Thanks, Brian & Jamie. Jamie, how's this week look for you. I still have to find out when my days off are this week. As far as thursday goes, better see you there bud. Good times are always had by all...
I might be able to do that Chris....I will PM ya when I know for sure.
We need to start getting into shape for the hunt...little walk today killed me.
And Brian, your mailbox is full. Just thought I'd let ya' know...
Hah! I hear that, Jamie. Starting Jan. 1st, it's out with sleeping in and consuming junk food and so many adult beverages. From then on out, it's nothing but getting up to run at 6, plenty of fruit and whole wheat, low fat chicken sandwiches. Was too outta shape last year to really enjoy the bunny hunt. Not making that mistake twice...
QuoteOriginally posted by Bowspirit:
It's a mentality, my dear friend. Not the equipment one has, but what's in their mind, heart, and soul.
When someone opens their home and hunting grounds to new hunters; to me, that's traditional. When a veteran hunter reveals a secret spot, or that crucial, game-getting piece of advice, to a novice; to me, that's traditional. When a person finds solice in caring for their weapon like an old friend, or when someone kneels to say prayer for fallen game; to me, that's traditional.
But mostly...it's when one can enjoy the hunt itself, to truly savor it, more than the taking of actual game. That's what I'd like to think of as "traditional".
This was well written Bowspirit...I read it a couple times and it seems like you are at peace with yourself.... that's a huge accomplishment that i admire greatly...
i'm not sure about the "truely savoring the hunt, more than the harvesting of game" being traditional though....my great grandma used to get seriously upset if there wasn't nothing to go in the frying pan after grandpa was out hunting...LOL!
QuoteI read it a couple times and it seems like you are at peace with yourself
Hehe..far from it actually. Waaaaaay too young to be at peace with who I am right now...
Well Kirk....iffn' ya wanna chase some whitetails or turkey birds down here in the hills and hollers of the northern Ozarks consider yourself invited and welcome. Our deer aren't like those huge cornfed beasts of Illinois or northern Missouri, (mostly cuz there ain't no corn down here!), but the hunting is up close and personal. If you come I believe you should prepare yourself for another round of culture shock...hehe.
Come to think of it, in a way we are all neighbors, thanks to trad gang.
Now, about that equipment....If I were to ever carry a compound, (shudder), I wouldn't feel any kinship with Nimrod, Robin Hood or William Tell. For me the equipment is very much a part of it. I wouldn't change my ethics if I were carrying a modern bow or rifle but that kinship would be gone. Obviously we can never reacapture how it really was centuries ago, even back in the days of Hill and Bear, but by using bows and arrows such as they did we can experience what is required to take game with them and the same thrill and elation when successful.
Vic
So nostalgia is a big part. Its funny, I havent really found a response that I cant relate to....
It is funny that we are "traditional archers" using computers to relate, communicate and celebrate our love for (dare I say it?) primative archery. :saywhat:
Chris what about weekends?
You lookin at me? :rolleyes:
Actually Jamie, Saturday should be doable. Just have to run back to the store to check and make sure I have it off...
Not at all Brian...I was agreeing. Its kinda ironic isnt it? I have seen numerous postssaying what is and waht isnt traditional....yet it was all said via a keyboard.
Oh how I wish Fred Bear were around to tap in his 2 cents! :biglaugh:
QuoteOriginally posted by Bowspirit:
QuoteI read it a couple times and it seems like you are at peace with yourself
Hehe..far from it actually. Waaaaaay too young to be at peace with who I am right now... [/b]
I haven't a clue how old you are my friend....but peace of mind, and thinking along the lines you have written shows what's in your heart is good....Who knows? Maybe you will actually be one of the fortunate ones in life who will actually obtain wisdom while you are young enough to share it with others.... Sounds to me like your on the right track....
I have searched fo many years to find an inner peace within myself....Kirk
Ya know Kirk, I have met him just once...and I agree completely.
I have been thinking about this post and I think I have figured out what is so appealing about trad, the wilderness, and this site. Everyone on here is tremendously awed by nature. There is a powerful connection there that we all seem to share regardless of our location. I can honestly say I would feel comfortable ebough to travel anywhere and hunt with any of you. Now thats just cool.