Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Legolas on December 22, 2007, 02:37:00 PM
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Just wondering. Is this more accurate or what?
Thanks for the opinions.
Paul
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I do not, however the gentleman that first got me interested in trad archery put some on a Martin recurve that he had. He tried them for about a month and just did not like it. He went back to instinctive because he said that when he missed he only had himself to blame instead of a sight. Not much information but just thought i'd throw it out there. I say try it if it interest you, you can always go back to barebow!
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Sights were used a lot back in the 40s, 50s and even 60s. At known distances, they will enable most folks to shoot more accurately than without sights. Under hunting situations, they're usually slower to put into action, and hunters in the heat of the moment often pick the wrong pin or have to gap between pins on multiple pin sights. Either can cause a miss or bad hit.
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For my old PMH I do use a pin. It takes time to get used to, but it is deadly accurate.
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m123/JDS3_2006/100_1402.jpg)
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Originally posted by killinstuff:
Anyone that puts sights on a recurve or longbow gives up the right to say they are a traditional archer and should have their bow cut into 50 small pieces
Really..........Anyone that opinionated around my neck of the woods usually gets a slap! :p
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I don;t know,but my bow had sights on it before I owned it.The bow is about 50 years old.
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OH NO! What is gonna happen here?
Well, I know a fella that tried one sight pin on his recurve bow for hunting. Kept his shots within ten yards and made out O.K.. Point being he did not spend alot (or enough) time on the practice range and felt a sight would make up for that.
For me... I'll say away from sights... Maybe I'll draw cross hairs on my eyeglasses... :D ...
... mike ... :wavey: ...
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In the 60's before the "new wave" traditional archery most everybody at least tried a sight on their bow. That is why so many of the older recurves have holes drilled somewhere in the riser.
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I think I will play around with a pin or two next summer. I have my first bow a Ben Pearson Colt I had 40 years ago. I may see what happens...
Paul
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Originally posted by robtattoo:
Originally posted by killinstuff:
Anyone that puts sights on a recurve or longbow gives up the right to say they are a traditional archer and should have their bow cut into 50 small pieces
Really..........Anyone that opinionated around my neck of the woods usually gets a slap! :p [/b]
Same around here this side of the pond.
Steve
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I don't know about a pin, but a number of folks were using the DAS sight. Here's a photo of "Trashwood" and his:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/Jeffreyupchurch/hornesrf1.jpg)
I lifted the photo from this thread about the DAS sight: (good info here)
http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=print_topic;f=1;t=038330
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Killinstuff, sometimes its hard to determine what a fella means by a post in a forum, obviously part of your above post was rather 'tongue in cheek'. However, I would recommend that you read a thread posted by George D. Stout back in November that addressed this very subject.
"Traditional: Misunderstanding What Was"
http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=052684
You may find it rather enlightening.
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Thanks GrayRhino, I read the thread. At what point then does traditional become nontraditional is what I want to know? This thread is not the place to adress that question so maybe a new one should be started.
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As far as Trad Gang is concerned....bows with wheels and cables are not Trad Bowhunting. We've made it real simple here, so its easy to stay civil.
Now there's no need for another thread. :D
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I have seen a lot of older 'curves with sights on them. I have an AMF Hawk that was my Dad's, and I inherited it with a brass crosshair-type pin.
I personally dont use pins on my trad bows. Years as a wheelie hunter, I dont even know how many deer I missed using the wrong one.
I think that the use of pins is fine. It is just a way for SOME to ensure accuracy....accuracy leads to better shots.....quicker kills...Etc Etc.
I think what ever any person has to do in order to feel comfortable taking shots at live animals is fine.
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A recurve or a longbow is trad! Whether it has sights or not! ;) People have been using sights on them for decades.....
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I'll leave my opinion out of this one since my wife keeps telling me I need to lighten up. She's probably right! :rolleyes:
I'd say sighting is probably the least of problems for most shooting traditional. Putting a sight on your bow may give you better accuracy on targets, but it will not cure what ails ya' in the woods.
I believe Trashwood put the SRF sight on because he was having trouble seeing enough to focus. That's where a sight can help and the SRF sight is probably the best type for hunting.
They can be used to help check aspects of your form too, however, you typically will not use the same shooting style with a sight as you will shooting barebow.
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Almost everything posted on these sites are nothing but opinions so there's no shame in framing responses as such...except where the site itself might dropkick what you say from the 10th floor window, never to be seen again. Gee I hate when that happens... :)
But there's good discussion potential in the topic. My own opinion is that using sights make perfect sense if the primary goal is precise, accurate shooting but they don't pass my self-imposed straight-face test for traditional gear. I've used them and they do help accuracy if your form is good. I may use them again for targets, but when I want to 'go trad' the sights stay off the bow. Thats simply what makes sense to me. You should make your own call on what makes sense for you.
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Pins on a recurve or longbow can really help someone with a dominant eye conflict. So many traditional archers gap shoot. Isn't this a sight? In the end, it's what ever the archer feels is right for them.
Dick
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I don't gap shoot, but I sure don't see it the same as a sight pin. Two totally different aiming methods....and one has a pin on the bow and one doesn't ....so that's not the same either IMO.
Good post TSP.
"Almost everything posted on these sites are nothing but opinions so there's no shame in framing responses as such..." Yep, long as it is done so respectfully.
"except where the site itself might dropkick what you say from the 10th floor window, never to be seen again. Gee I hate when that happens..." Yep, and we also hate it when that happens believe it or not.
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I taught a friend how to shoot about 20 years ago,he wanted to learn as fast as he could so he could come on a hunting trip I had planned about a month late.
I taped a single pin on the old browning I lent him and he was good to go at 20 yards after about a week of practice.
We went out and he got his deer from about 15 yards,,,,,,,I missed barebow at 20.
He still likes to tell that story.
Anyway,I still don't use a sight muself,but wouldn't hesitate to put one on a newbies bow.
After all,they just want to shoot,,,nothing else.
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Any time you have a sight, you CAN be more accurate than with no sight. Add a rear sight (front and rear) and you CAN be even more accurate. add a release mechanism and you add to that. and on and on.
Do you need that stuff. well, that is up to you. Whatever you do, that's OK by me.
An inherent problem to sights is that they are "dead on" only at a given range. If you are not at that range, you need to adjust. If you don't know the range,.... you have to adjust.
Practice enough without sights and many folks can pull off those shots without even considering the distance. They just do it.
ChuckC
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Terry, I missed your post before I pushed sorry, but I have to disagree. I believe gap shooting is the very same as using a sight pin, which your arrow tip becomes. It ain't a bad thing, it just is what it is. If you use a single pin sight, you have to gap if the distance is not the dead on distance.
ChuckC
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Chuck...a gap shooters bow doesn't have a pin on his bow...so I still don't see how it's the same.
No biggie though.
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My dad was shooting sites on the bow he gave me.
I took them off a few summers back when I started shooting again. Oh it is so much more enjoyable.
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TSP is right on. I recently shot a hoyt with foam core limbs and a sight. I got to use it for a few days. If I shot spots with it and kept my form I was very accurate. If I went out and shot at the 3D deer, well lets just say I would rather shoot my other bows that are bare. I just get a kick out of these threads though, who is anyone to say what is traditional. As long as it is not wheels and pulleys, who cares. I would much rather see people using sights and stabilizers if they are more accurate and enjoy the sport than them getting frustrated and giving it up. shoot what ya want and who cares what everyone else thinks! Shawn
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Reading in Fred's biography, he admits to taping a match head on his bow as early as 1937.. I guess that makes sights as Trad as they need to be for me, and pre-dates all but a few of us that gather here. Personally I did use a single pin for a few years and found out I can miss a deer as well with that as I can a bow with training wheels of a bare stick. Best thing about a sight is you always have a built in excuse (Opps I mean reason) for missing.. You can always say I picked the wrong pin..About as original as "The dog ate my homework" but hey if it works fine.
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I just love these threads that talk about what is traditional...on the COMPUTER...now is talking about traditional archery over the World Wide Web really traditional? LOL
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I agree with Chuck. Gap shooting is making the tip of the arrow into a single sight. It becomes a "pin" that the archer uses to aim. It doesn't make him "non traditonal" or a bad guy though.
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I have shot with sights on a recurve, it's a little trickier than one might think if you have never shot that way before. As to whether they are 'traditional', to me they are since they certainly pre-date many other archery inventions that are considered traditional--shooting gloves, bowquivers and fiberglass laminated bows to name three. I don't shoot with a sight now but if a guy wants to that's fine with me, shoot with whatever makes you happy.
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Doug,
It is still traditional computing if you use dial up. Keep it trad; NO CABLE MODEMS!
-Charlie
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An interesting thread, because its a good example of where the trad vs. non-trad 'sides' are coming from. It seems to be mostly a matter of two issues/questions:
(1.) "When was it manufactured?" (which somehow places an invisible stamp of approval or disapproval on the item); and
(2.) "What does it do for me personally?" (which reflects our own selfish wants and expectations...i.e., not much affected by what others may think so not really debatable).
Neither of these questions seem to get at the crux of the matter, though, whether it be a bow, an arrow, bowsights, a hat, accessories, etc. A bigger question, one with more substance and more consequences because it affects not only us but the future (our kids AND our future values/traditions), might be...
(3.) "What will the kind of archery we generally prefer (call it trad) look like in the future if as individuals and a collective group we follow the course we are on now for choice of equipment?".
To me, question #3 is what makes my own view of 'What is traditional?' lean more towards a conservative approach. If we each don't make some common-sense lines in the sand for where we are personally going with trad and where we WANT the sport to go, in the not-so-distant future the idea of hunting in a traditional mode may be little different than what we see in modern bowhunting or target archery supply magazines now. And whether that equipment setup has 'wheels' or not (not having wheels has somehow become the Holy Grail of trad...not exactly sure why) won't make much difference because everything else about the setup will look like a Chuck Adams commercial. I'd hate to see that...to see the basic identity of this aspect of archery we started with be lost because we were too obsessed on questions 1 and 2 to see the forest for the trees.
Anyway, thats why my own opinion leans heavily towards recognizing that the term 'traditional' does have real value and limiting choice of gear within the trad arena makes sense. In an archery /environmental sense you might say its like "going green", or in an archery / sports sense its something like staying off steroids. That sort of thing.
I know, you disagree. Well thats a surprise... :)
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"I would much rather see people using sights and stabilizers if they are more accurate and enjoy the sport than them getting frustrated and giving it up. shoot what ya want and who cares what everyone else thinks!" Shawn
I could'nt put it better myself.
Best
Bob
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Words of wisdom from Shawn. Having been at this stickbow thing for a long time, and tried many different shooting styles with it(target panic giganticus!),Shawn hit the nail on the head with "who cares what anyone else thinks". In this battle, I've even been criticized for holding at full draw (rather than snap-shooting) and shooting three fingers under (rather than split-finger). It used to bother me a bit, but I've gotten past that now. This is MY archery, not someone elses.
A close friend of mine is an exceptional shot with his recurve. Does well on animals and targets alike. I'm envious of the control he's got on every arrow he shoots. It is odd that HE can hold at full draw, and not get criticized. People enjoy watching him shoot.
I love longbows and recurves. Traditional Bowhunter is the only magazine that I get. This web-site is fantastic. People that know me know these things about me.
But next season, I WILL be using a single pin on my bow. I just don't do a good job of picking a spot on animals, and I'm no beginner at this. Call me a "choker" or whatever, but I also have a resposibility to the animals I hunt. I keep a journal every year, and can tell you that the shooting numbers aren't pretty.
For ME, it's time for a pin. Will this be a fix-all? Of course not. Will it help? I sure hope so...
To those that don't need the help, I'm happy for you. Envious, too. Enjoy every arrow that you shoot, 'cause this is what we do and who we are.
Happy Holidays, friends!
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Sights on a bow does not detemind whether you are "traditional" or not. To each their own! That is a personal preference and need! Mr.Chuck
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Legolas....
Who started this thread ask a simple question, who here usees a sight Pin.
I don't recall him asking weather are not it was Traditional or not....
I have noticed on a few occasions where a post drifts from the main topic it was startd with....
Legolas, I do not use a sight Pin, butt your post has made me think of a single Pin....
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Where I hunt you could spent the rest of our life hunting for another guy who hunts with a stickbow, I'd like to hope if I ever see one I won't think less of him if there's a toothpick taped on his riser.
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A single pin can be very effective and is an excellent teaching tool also. My objective is to be the best I can be with the equipment I choose personally.
These discussions always make me laugh. Guys will hammer on someone over a sight, elevated rest, vanes, etc. Yet they will use a game cam, ATV, GPS, treestand, synthetic pop-up blind, food plot, bait pile, etc and still say they are traditional because they shoot bare bow. Shoot and use what you like that makes your hunting fulfilling. When someone else starts buying your equipment then they can write a definition of traditional for you until then do for yourself.
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Originally posted by ChuckC:
Terry, I missed your post before I pushed sorry, but I have to disagree. I believe gap shooting is the very same as using a sight pin, which your arrow tip becomes. It ain't a bad thing, it just is what it is. If you use a single pin sight, you have to gap if the distance is not the dead on distance.
ChuckC
Nope, that would be Point of Aim. In Gap shooting, your focus is on the spot you want to hit, not of the tip of the arrow. The arrow is just a reference. Shooting with a sight, your focus is on the sight, not the target. There is no gap with a sight. You hold on, hold high, or hold low. You're focus is still the sight. Big difference between the two.
That is the very reason sights are good for pinpoint accuracy on targets and not so good for high speed encounters or unusual shooting positions in the woods.
As for whether they're traditional or not, I said this on another post and I'll say it here. "Traditional Archery/Bowhunting" is a modern term used to describe a way of doing things- today. It has little to do with what did or did not exist before the compound.
You're hard pressed to say sights are traditional when they are not permitted in nearly every traditional shoot. Most traditional archery clubs do not allow them and the IBO does not allow them in their "Traditional" class. Even the modern archery guys know that when you put a sight on your bow, it's not "traditional" anymore. Heck, they even describe shooting a compound without sights as "shooting it the 'traditional' way".
I doubt you guys really want to see a bunch of sights, release aids, peeps, range finders, etc... thrown out as being traditional. All these things were here and in use pre-compound. If that happens, then it will be "just archery" again and there won't really be much of a reason for somebody to choose a recurve or longbow over the compound. After all, that is exactly what happened before.
Now, as far as using a pin when your hunting... That's up to you. You owe the game you hunt your very best.
So much for holding back my opinion....... ;)
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Was just discussing this with Charlie Lam a couple days ago. I have not used a sight pin, but am considering trying one an old recurve to see what it does for me. I am planning to try a single pin, a Das style loop and maybe even a gun style front and rear sight set up. I am curious about what effect if any it will have on my cross eye dominance issues. I have a feeling that it could be handy to reasure myself about form and eye view as confidence in form and sight picture is important and never 100% positive in us eye dominance challenged archers.
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Mike G
You said it. I just want to know the virtue of using a pin or sight. The discussion of what is traditional is great but not where I was headed but a great discussion anyway.
I just love archery period.
I see the Olympic archers with stabilizers and anchors below the jaw and sight pins and am I am fascinated. I see our sage Byron Ferguson and he shoots dimes out of the air and I am fascinated. I see my own arrow fly at a whitetail and leave only some fletch out of its side and I am fascinated.
I love all archery.
But since I have so much resource here on Tradgang I can ask a simple question and get answers and passion. Its nice to bounce things off each other and I love the spirited opinions.
Paul
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Shaun-
Usually, adding a sight will make dominant eye issues worse unless you close the dominant eye. The problem with that is, when you get excited, the body's natural reaction is to increase focus in both eyes on the object of your excitement.
I have a friend who had these issues. He shoots gap and would always be hitting about 12" left. We pretty much cured it by extending his arrow length out two inches which reduced the angle (so to speak) of his sighting problem.
If you hold your finger up close to your face and do the dominant eye test, you will see quite a bit of movement in the finger. Now extend your finger out as far as you can and do the test. You will notice the finger moves maybe a third of what it did up close. That is why the extra lenght of arrow helped in his case.
Another option is to try different anchor point locations that may reduce the angle as well. Perhaps even anchoring at the front of the mouth, wherever, the goal is to reduce the illusion.
Something to try.
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Sights are as traditional as anything else found on a recurve or a longbow since Og first broke a branch off a tree, tied a piece of gut to each end and proclaimed himself a bowhunter. They're only labeled as "non traditional" by the neo Trads who have yet to take the time to learn a bit of history on the sport of archery.
It's also on the very top of the list titled "Stupid Stuff to Argue About".
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Sights (gap,poa) work best on a bow that has wheels and cables. Instinctive works best on bows that do not IMO.
To find out if your bow is traditional go to a traditional shoot with it. If they let you shoot your traditional that day
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Sights (which are NOT gap or POA) are extremely effective on a trad bow. Tell the Olympic archers they don't work well.
That they are more effective on a bow with let off enabling longer aiming times is irrelevant to their value to a trad shooter or whether or not they are "traditional".
To ignore the fact they have been in use for 1000's of years so we can have a new neotrad definition of "traditional" is more then a little funny to me.
Steve
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The original question asks if we have used a sight. I did a LONG time ago. Although I think sights work well with a compound, my shooting style with a longbow will not work with sights.
I cant my bow too much and frankly I don't hold at anchor. Fact is, I sometimes anchor with my wrist from the looks of it. There is never time enough to even see the sight pin much less align it with anything. True instinctive shooting if you ask me.
If you hold your bow in a more upright fashion and come to a good solid anchor and hold it for enough time to aqcquire the sight, place it where you want to and then release...maybe you should try it out.
Molson.
So if I have my cross hairs set at 100 and the target is at 300, so I need to hold over... am I no longer using a sight, just reference shooting ?
And if the gap I am using (arrow tip) just happens to correspond with my point-on for that target, am I using POA or gap shooting or sights ?
Looks to me like we are taking something, anything, and placing it into our sight plane then using this thing as a sight or point of reference toward making something hit the target. Kinda all blends in...
We went and named all these things something. I hear the eskimos have a ton of different words for "snow", but seems to me it is still just snow.
Change subjects just a bit. We have argued quite a bit over the definition of "Traditional" and all of its nuances. Maybe we should take a vote on what "traditional" means on this site and from then on, that's what it means.
Its just a word guys. It means whatever we want it to mean.
ChuckC
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There is no need to take a vote Terry Green already said that on this site it means no cables or wheels I can live with that who said anything different that may not necessarily hold true at your local tradtionla shoot.
I stand by the fact that a sight or gap shooting of poa will work better shooting a compound I didn't say it wouldn't work on a stick bow. In the olympics compounds are not allowed Why? stickbows can not compete = when it comes to compounds using a sight.
Shooting instinctive true instinctive do not see arrow at all ,only while in flight, uses muscle memory and with a bow that changes weight in mid stream makes it difficult to shoot instinctive. IMO
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To me, traditional is and should be defined individually. How we chose to go about it is up to us, as no one is out in the woods with us. Same as taking "ethical shots"....each person has a different view, a different comfort zone.
Sights, no sights.....gap, POA....it really isnt important, as long as we, as bowhunters, do our best to make each shot taken at a live animal a quick humane kill.
Some like heavy arrows, others prefer light. My point is this...each aspect of our equipment is what WE choose. How we shoot it, how far we are comfortable shooting it, Bh choices....etc etc, it is all what we chose to purchase or make. How can any of that be wrong?
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Chuck,
Yes, at 300 yds, you would be looking at the crosshair high on the target. Your aiming point would be, say, the "8" ring and your bullet would drop into the 10.
A lot of the terms used to describe aiming methods get mixed up or bunched together. It's not that big of a deal. The sight basically takes the place of the Point of Aim method. It just allows you to put your "point of aim" on the target instead of on a spot below it.
As far as what is or isn't traditional, if it didn't matter, folks wouldn't get so upset about it. It has pretty much been defined by the shoot rules, the books and magazines written about it, the local clubs, and the majority of the people who participate in it. Not to long ago, this wouldn't even be a discussion.
There's a bunch of satisfaction to be had at learning to shoot with a barebow method. It seems to be one of the major attractions to the sport. Nothing wrong with trying to keep that aspect alive. The final decision will always be yours.
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"As far as what is or isn't traditional, if it didn't matter, folks wouldn't get so upset about it. It has pretty much been defined by the shoot rules, the books and magazines written about it, the local clubs, and the majority of the people who participate in it. Not to long ago, this wouldn't even be a discussion."
Funny how a word like Traditonal is for ever changing
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To answer the question, I do not hunt with a pin. I have a pin on one bow just to try to see if it helps. Sometimes it leads to tight groups, sometimes I revert to instinctive and it screws me up. I think using one to learn consistent form is not bad idea, but eventually learning to focus, anchor and release is oh, so sweet!
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Molson... agreed
Everyone. Happy holidays !
ChuckC
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I use a sight, but it doesn't have pins on it, it was mentioned earlier in the thread, the DAS SRF sight. It has many advantages, very quick pointing, like instinctive, but more accurate, like a pin sight. To me, it is the ultimate aiming method for hunting (again FOR ME). There is only one disadvantage, which really ain't a disadvantage to me, you shouldn't cant the bow while using the sight...it is doable, if you have to, but I just try to avoid it. It has not caused me any problems in hunting situations yet....if you must cant in some situation all you do is line up horizontally with the tip of the arrow and vertically with the sight, aiming slightly lower on the sight depending on the degree of cant.
Merry CHRISTmas,
Craig
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I'm thinking about using a sight pin, didn't Jack Howard use them for hunting?
My eye sight is starting to fade some and I think it might help me feel better about the shot when I have a live animal in front of me.
it don't make me happy but it might make me more confident.
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One thing that I don't believe was touched on. When you have a sight pin, or arrow point, or some sighting device on or near your bow, it is at a focal length of maybe 30". The target is much farther. As you age, your eyes may not be able to do a good job of getting both in any sort of decent focus. Even if you have awesome vision, it is nearly impossible to focus perfectly on both. At FLETC we were trained to focus on the front sight of the handgun we were using, and to keep the rear sight and target as a blur. Still there, but as a blur.
Using a sight, as explained above may actually cause problems, not fix them.
Just a thought
ChuckC
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How does this DAS sight work? It looks so large an aperature that the whole animal would be framed? How do you narrow to a kill zone?
Thanks,
Paul
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I think if you look down the arrow, you use sights! If you shoot the first arrow instinctive, the second arrow at the same target is not. If you practice, you use some sighting mechanism! Whose to say for sure. It's about whatever it takes to get the arrow to the intended spot! happy holidays to all!
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I have questioned, and it will be like what is traditional. Let's try this one;
If you have traditional bow, and it's made out of wood, and you're in a tree stand " is that traditional hunting"
I hunt with the traditional bow " sometimes " I do still hunt with that other kind. I am fortunate for the past eight weeks I had been hunting in tree stands, never did that before, always on the ground, up until 2002, I never hunted in a double bull, " is hunting in a double bull traditional?"
Do you see where I'm going. You see when I stepped into the woods even with my other bow, I'm still a traditional hunter, I may have some different components on that bow, but the traditional hunter is in the mind, not any equipment. Sometimes I feel I'm cheating, when I'm in a tree stand, or double bull, but it's all in the attitude of what " traditional hunting" you could even say that using a black powder gun is traditional hunting.
When you step in the woods and if you are relying on your equipment you are not a traditional hunter, but if you're relying on the skill to use that equipment it's a different story. The attitude of the hunter is that he beats his wildlife in its own environment, on its own turf. To me that is traditional hunting, yes you get some guys that think that equipment is everything. But they're only fooling themselves.
My idea is that your archery equipment becomes an extension of you, and you're traditional hunting becomes a way to implement the outcome of that hunt. I have always had to forget about what other people think. People think that I'm weird because I turned down big bucks and go after matriarch doe's. " Traditional hunting" is an attitude no matter what you have your hand. If you have the attitude that you can bop into the woods for 45 minutes, fill your tag and walkout, you might as well buy a so-called hunting video. Save yourself some $$$$.
So again " what he is traditional hunting"
it's not the equipment, it's the attitude of how you use that equipment.
Pastor Carl
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Paul, it works more like a peep sight on a rifle, I had one once that you could unscrew the peep out, and you had about a 5/16" circle left, most guys call them a ghost ring...you see it ,but it's fuzzy, and your eye will automatically center the front blade in it. The SRF sight works on the same princeable... with no front blade..your target serves as the blade and depending on distance, your target may be slighty higher or lower within the ring.
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Paul,
The SRFs tapered shape allows you to memorize what place to use at which distance. For example, the middle (widest part of the sight) for me is set at 20 yards. For 25 yards I hold slightly higher, and for 30 slightly higher than that and so on. The same goes for moving closer to the target, just in reverse. Basically it narrows your reference frame to something definite, and the sight becomes a blur after you practice with it a while. You just look at the spot you want to hit and shoot it, it's a lot like instinctive. The sight just gives your mind a definite reference to refer to so you're consistent.
Craig
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Paul, you may want to try what I call a "tape sight". I have taken several animals with this and seems to work well for me when shooting a recurve (doesn't work for me with a longbow for some reason). I started putting a piece of white tape on the belly of the riser and drawing lines on it to indicate different yardages (usually just 10, 20, and 30 yds.). This gives me my elevation. Windage is done "instinctively" and it gives you a clear view of the target without a pin in the way (like the DAS sight). I have found that you can also cant the bow quite a ways without messing up the elevation. For me, I shoot best when I line up the line with my target and then switch my concentration to concentrate on the spot I want to hit. It's easy to play with and then take off if you don't like it. If you do, you can "paint" the lines on with white out to hunt with (rain usually moves your tape). White out can just be scraped off without messing up the finish on most bows (one may not want to try it on a $1000 bow). This for me has worked well. I don't like a pin sight in my picture when I'm shooting. Hope this helps. Doug