I have been considering a heavier recurve but what I am looking for is not readily available :(
Now I am questioning if I will gain anything with the added weight :confused:
I am looking at going from 70 to 90# for the sole purpose of retaining the same window of arrow decent while increasing the arrow weight.
I am told that there is a point of diminishing returns in as much as added bow weight (at some point) will not increase performance.
True?
Secondly....who will build a 90# recurve with a warranty that I want?
I like Fedora and Shaffer recurves and pretty much any recurve which is similar.
Suggestions? :pray:
You're right, efficiency will start to go down a bit but a heavier bow will still throw a heavier arrow nearly as fast as a more efficient weight.
Not sure who would build you a recurve that heavy, Robertson has built some fairly heavy ones in the past though. Black Widow maybe?
I am not head strong on 90# but I feel that if that's what it takes , I am plenty comfortable with that.
Obviously I dont need to hold x-tra weight if there is little return so I am looking for serious input.
Thanks slowbowin :)
I shot 80+ pounds for a few years.It was not really worth the wear and tear on the shoulders and joints.It hit really hard though and I killed several deer with it. I changed to 70# when I bought a Trails end bow from dale dye.It seems to be ideal,and is as efficient as 80# +.
The bow was an assenheimer that I bought used,and I got the limbs at the wvba banquet auction really cheap. Left hnd,82#,nobody wanted them. They were donated by Maggie Magee.
My advice is to try 70#. Very accurate,easy too shoot,and quite deadly. :campfire:
quote:
Originally posted by Dirty Bill:
My advice is to try 70#. Very accurate,easy too shoot,and quite deadly. :thumbsup:
QuoteOriginally posted by shtr:
quote:
Originally posted by Dirty Bill:
My advice is to try 70#. Very accurate,easy too shoot,and quite deadly. :thumbsup:
I don't have any problem with whatever you want to do but I have to ask why you feel you need to shoot over 70#.I can understand if you have dangerous game in mind.
I can't think of anything in the North american continent that 70# with a good warhead and shot placement won't kill. Even a 90# bow will not make an arrow break down heavy bone,which is what is needed to put down heavy,dangerous game.
If you shoot a great deal you will get tendonitis from the heavy bow weight. If you are set on the heavy weight though,go for it. You will like it for a while. :campfire:
QuoteOriginally posted by Dirty Bill:
I can't think of anything in the North American continent that 70# with a good warhead and shot placement won't kill. Even a 90# bow will not make an arrow break down heavy bone,which is what is needed to put down heavy,dangerous game.
Guy....I agree wholeheartedly .... but :rolleyes:
I have never once passed through a deer with room to spare....never.
I have only passed through twice in five years and that was due to striking far behind the ribs :confused:
I have a friend who has hunted with me and been there when I have shot deer and hogs and he is speechless as to the absolute lack of penetration I get out of any bow I shoot :eek:
This is a real problem due to the fact that I am totally color blind and see things in black and white.....if it were not for my son or my dog , I would have to grid search every animal I take unless it dropped within sight.
This year 3 deer carried my arrow with a high wound (tree stand) and there was no blood to follow.
I have used alot of different heads so it's not the head.
This year I was using silver flames and shot a hog three times , right in the pocket....no heavy bone at all and all three arrows stopped with 6" penetration :eek: :confused:
I am shooting 8gpp on average and I cant blame it on the bows because I have used a dozen different makes , weights and designs.
I would love to hunt with 45#....but that ain't my fortune :campfire: [/b]
Been there and done that.
I have to limit my shooting to every few days if I am going to shoot weight.
I suppose I could drop some bow weight in exchange for speed within the bow make.?
If I started with a bow that was 50fps faster I could offset that with more arrow weight and achieve better penetration that way.
I dont know .... what say you?
What path would you follow in the quest to achieve better penetration ?
QuoteI have never once passed through a deer with room to spare....never.
I have only passed through twice in five years and that was due to striking far behind the ribs
Something is seriously wrong. You should be passing through deer-sized animals with a 45# bow easily.
You don't need more bow weight. I doubt a 90 pound bow is going to solve the problem and you will hurt yourself shooting that kind of weight regularly.
i am with you on that one jeff. you dont need a heavy poundage bow to kill deer shoot one that you can shoot well. :thumbsup:
QuoteOriginally posted by Jeff Strubberg:
QuoteI have never once passed through a deer with room to spare....never.
I have only passed through twice in five years and that was due to striking far behind the ribs
Something is seriously wrong. You should be passing through deer-sized animals with a 45# bow easily.
You don't need more bow weight. I doubt a 90 pound bow is going to solve the problem and you will hurt yourself shooting that kind of weight regularly. [/b]
I am all ears my friend :)
Take a shot at this...maybe you will see what others haven't :confused:
Bows used are all in the range of 158fps
Bows used are :
48 Magnum 60#
Herters Sitka Supreme 50#
Martin Mamba 50#
L&B serpentine 48#
Bear Grizzly 45#
Browning 55#
Arrows range between 7 - 10 gpp and include the following :
Alaskan
GT naturals
Cedar
CX w/ weight tubes
Draw ranges 27 - 28" depending on shooting style and bow type.
Broadheads used are as follows :
Stinger 125
Silver Flame 150
Snuffer 150
Eskimo 100
HellForce 125
Also....all shots are confirmed off the scapula and center lungs.
Background....25 years of pro level experience in bow tuning and a broadhead testing consultant.
Just want to eliminate some off the mark questions as to what the problem might be. ;)
I came here because of the professional manner and content of advise which always exists here.
This site is about the only one which can out gun (so to speak) my own knowledge....by a long shot.
I am very eager to hear things which I may have over looked.
I am not discounting the bow at all but I am looking to fix other issues as well.
Might as well take advantage of this opportunity if it exists :)
If your only getting 6" of penetration, that makes me wonder about how well you are tuned. I get the feeling that your arrows aren't hitting any where near straight on.
Have you bare shaft tuned?
Even a big heavy 90# bow won't penetrate if your not tuned in.
I hear you....yes , all my bows are tuned out of the shop.
That particular hog was shot three times beside the heart and therefore there wasn't alot to penetrate.
All shots stopped against the offside rib and did not break that rib....250# hog....nothing huge.
Those shots were taken at 25 - 30 and 15 yards.
Even if the arrow wasn't coming out of the bow perfectly , the arrow would have been very straight at a point of 20 yards.
AT times , I have video'd the flight of my recurves and then watched the arrows in slow motion to find problems but I have seen nothing yet and neither have the people who I shoot with.
QuoteOriginally posted by shtr:
I hear you....yes , all my bows are tuned out of the shop.
That particular hog was shot three times beside the heart and therefore there wasn't alot to penetrate.
All shots stopped against the offside rib and did not break that rib....250# hog....nothing huge.
Those shots were taken at 25 - 30 and 15 yards.
Even if the arrow wasn't coming out of the bow perfectly , the arrow would have been very straight at a point of 20 yards.
AT times , I have video'd the flight of my recurves and then watched the arrows in slow motion to find problems but I have seen nothing yet and neither have the people who I shoot with.
In fact....now that I think of it....I generally can watch the rotation in the helical as the arrow tracks toward the target....so no....it's not the flight.
6" of penetration? Behind a silver flame head?
I am not trying to be contrary, but something does not ring true here. That head with a 45# bow and well tuned arrow will drop elk consistently.
Somethign is seriously wrong here, and I would be surprised if it doesn't wind up being tuning. No way is the arrow hitting your game straight if that's all the penetration you are getting.
gotta be tuning, with 60lb, and 600 gr arrows, I usually blow through on a behind the shoulder hit.. thats with a zwickey and a 2020 x75
Shtr,
I am not doubting you on what you see, however it has been my experience that the eyes can play tricks on you. My Girl friend got 12 inches of penatration on a hog with forty pounds shooting a magnus head.
I am shooting a lot less weight than you and got a complete pass through, arrow on the ground on the other side, on a thirty yard shot on the same hunt. My hog weighed 220lbs.
You stated that you are a Pro-Shop Tech, or at least I get that impression. I might suggest two things that I have gleened from your earlier post. One, you stated that at the distance of the shots, the arrow would have stablizied. That may be true, but have you considered the loss of energy that arrow expended before it got straight?
Two, you might try bare shaft tuning, instead of paper tuning. It gives a truer picture. I know I said two, things, but you might want to up you arrow weight per pound. I suggest 10 to 12 grains per pound.
It goes without saying, make sure your heads are razor sharp. Good luck!!!
Umm, It actually doesn't seem like you are understanding what we mean by "tuning". The arrow shafts have to match your bow. Tuning not only referres to nock-point and brace height, but to arrow spine weight and length as well. I would certainly start by bare-shafting with different weights up front, just to see if thats not the biggest problem with your flight.
And what is your actual draw length? What is the spine of the arrows you are shooting? How long are the arrows your shooting? Is your bow cut to center?
There are a lot of variables involved here.
I mean no disrespect to anyone please......No joke,Bjorn is right.Something is well out of tune with your equiment.The arrows are comeing out of your bow sideways (to soft or to stiff of spine).I saw a dude this fall stick a magnus broadhead into yes I said into the door of his suberban with a 55# Kodiak recurve bow.With a 600 grain cedar arrow (beleieve me it cost me 2 Buds to see that....) But it was worth it.I still can't stop laughing about that one.The maggie actuly penatrated the old burbs drivers door.I hunt with a 55# bow 550 grain arrow,with Bear razorhead and cedar shafts.I've blown thru elk (at 27 yards long shot for me)many many deer and several black bears as well.According to testing done some years back,by several well known bow manufactures.Which one may I say may have been Bob Lee of Wing Archery pretty sure it was.I can't remember what I did 10 minutes ago,much less something from 1965!!!!!! 55-57# recurve 9-10 grains per pound was by far the most efficint.1,000 grain arrow and 100 pound bow did not work any better and was actuly worse in some cases.Loss of energy and speed at some point.Food for thought.bd
One quick note......I know somewhere in the tradgang links is a video of Doctor Jeff Springer shooting an arrow completely thru a very large black bear.With a 50 pound self bow and stone head.Out the other side and then some,check it out.bd
I do not have alot of experience but before taking a chance at injury I would suggest a thin lite carbon arrow and load the front up to bring you up to 10 gr pr pound bow weight, and maybe a long head like a grizzly. It seems a high FOC arrow is what Dr. Ashby has had good penetration with. I could be wrong but I wish you the best of luck. ollie
good luck in your search for the bow thats some serious weight LOL.
but on a side note i had a passthrough with my 40lb curve on my buck this year.
shtr Are you sure not completely overbowed. As deadbolt points out a strong shot with a 40 pound bow has a lot more killing power than a weak shot out of a 60, even if you get it back. I had a fellow at shoot ask me to check his form and arrow flight. He said he had a thirty inch draw with thirty one inch arrows. he had 19 inches and would not believe when i told him there a foot sticking out in front when he let go.
shtr,
my 60# limbs throw an arrow 205 fps. Chronoed right in Fedora's back yard. Im expecting 180's out of my 50# limbs. He build a bow for a girl that lives around here at 36#. She blew right thru her first deer.
Just thinkin all that weight is overkill, esp when your already pullin 70. Your body will thank you someday.
Hey! thanks for piling on this topic people.
Truly is appreciated.
Here is the deal on what I didn't mention...
I have shot all arrows from the easton chart 5# above and below the weights of the bows that I have listed.
That's 6 shafts per bow and I started each shaft in a group of three and deducted 1" off the length of those arrows until I hit the front of the riser.
I also shoot 100 - 150 & 200 grain field points on all lengths.
I record all strikes and then finish the remaining shafts where my best strikes were seen and then match head weights to those shafts.
On some bows I am getting best flight with the actual arrow ending 2" ahead of the riser while some shoot best with the arrow ending at the front of the riser.
I flight tune all my bows and have tuned many bows for many people.
All of my bows which are set up for others are killers in thier hands , passthroughs and all....just not mine.
I am fully ready to believe it's flight....I just dont ever see it in the target butt , video's or have it witnessed when I am shooting.
I have been filmed on hunts in the past and have had over the shoulder camera angles so I can assure that on these real deal shots , the arrows were flying true.
Still.....It is a huge question.
As I said....one of my friends cant believe the lack of penetration I get and I set the bow up that he killed his first whitetail with.
He broke through the spine and exited the scapula with a 45# Bear Grizzly just last year.
His bow is tuned same as mine and many others.
I have found that the 2213 is giving me the best flight out of my 60# bow with a 29" arrow drawn to 27".
That's all I can add right now I am afraid.
Shtr,
I don't really understand what you have posted about your tuneing method.I'm sorry I may be a little slow.
If you want to see your problem shoot some shafts with no feathers or vanes at a target 25 yards away.My guess would be that the arrow will plane to the side and miss by feet.I can see no other explanation for your lack of penetration.
A well tuned bareshaft will hit with a fletched shaft at 25 yards.
I wish you the best of luck.
Randy
R H is absolutely right! And a 2213??? HolyMoly! try something a little closer to your spine weight.
At 70# I would be thinking something more along the lines as a 2117 or smaller.
If your bow is tuned right,then all that leaves is target panic. I hesitate to explain it because you can get it from thinking about it. The points is,you could possibly be barely at half draw when shooting at game. :campfire:
QuoteOriginally posted by JBiorn:
R H is absolutely right! And a 2213??? HolyMoly! try something a little closer to your spine weight.
2213 @ 60# - @ 29"
QuoteAt 70# I would be thinking something more along the lines as a 2117 or smaller. [/b]
Currently 2413 w/150 gr. head @ 29"
Tried 2115 and that was weak.
Bare shafted 15 - 20 & 25 yards....perfect tracking.
That being said...havnt shot a deer with the 70# set up yet. ;)
QuoteOriginally posted by Dirty Bill:
If your bow is tuned right,then all that leaves is target panic. I hesitate to explain it because you can get it from thinking about it. The points is,you could possibly be barely at half draw when shooting at game. :campfire:
On film I am anchored solidly and past experience has shown that if anything I will overdraw slightly if panic situation.
Thanks everyone for your input.
If the answer had of been obvious I would have found it a long time ago.
I will be doing more testing this summer on cull & preserve hunts so hopefully , I will be able to bring this back up once more with the issue resolved. :pray: