Trad Gang
Main Boards => Prayers/Concerns/Honors/Ailments => Topic started by: NDTerminator on January 06, 2007, 10:36:00 AM
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In the last two months I've emailed three bowyers, all well known to anyone in the Traditional world, requesting info on their bows. Two were questions on bows I had all ready purchased (I let them know this) and one was a potentional purchase.
One of these outfits I emailed twice and also spoke to the main guy on the phone (he told me to email him!). None responded to my questions or even acknowledged the emails.
As I said the two bows I bought used, and not having any knowledge of woodworking merely asked if they could advise what the riser & limbs were made of from attached photos? Nada, zip, zero. Not even a polite "no I can't" in response.
The third was a request for info on a specific bow, as I had gotten conflicting opinions on the suitability of the bow for me from two different dealers. I figured why not ask the pros & cons from the guy who makes it. No joy on this, either.
Being pretty new to this gig, I'm curious if this
"ignore the customer" customer service I've encountered is an annoying coincidence or the norm with bowyers? I wonder if this would have been the same if I was emailing to order one of their $600+ bows?
I'm big on customer service and tend to stick with companies that provide good customer service along with a good product. I find this annoying enough that I may well sell those bows and go with other makes...
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I have never had any bowyer ignore my requset for info. I think ya just must of had bad luck, with the holidays and all, they just maybe on Vac. or real busy. They should still at least let ya know this. Shawn
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Customer Service. Now there's a word that is disappearing in the American landscape. I don't think it is just Bowyers but American as a whole. The only thing that counts to some people and business's is the dollar. The dollar talks and bull$%#@ walks. I've sent request to a sponsor on this site before asking about product. Got the blow off. I agree it is annoying and I only buy from people willing to be thruthful and put the energy into the sell, or I do without their product and buy used.
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I've had real good responses from the bowyers I've spoke with. Most have gotten back to within the day and some within an hour. Haven't had any not speak with me on the phone when I called so not knowing who you are speaking of(though I can think of three who can be like that) hard to say if it was just bad timing or not.
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i agree w/ mr vic!!! customer service is a dying (or dead) concept to many. a VERY, VERY important factor to me when deciding on which custom bow to order was customer service. i was very happy and ordered a 2nd bow from the bowyer the next year (and may order some limbs next). too many quality bowyers out there to go w/ one that can't return an e-mail.
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I can probably ID your bow woods if you send me a picture or two. Send me a PM if you'd like and I'll send you my e-mail addy.
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They might be hunting..........I would be. :archer:
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I have had occasion to correspond with two bowyers in the past week or so, and both got back to me within a day. No problems here.
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Only dealt with one bowyer but he was great to work with.
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Email can't really be relied on anymore. In today's age of poorly written spam filters, it is very easy to get false positives in spam detection. People rarely check their spam folder, or worse, just let the software delete it upon detection. I've noticed the #1 source of false positives is if you send from a widely used domain, such as hotmail, msn, or aol. Not that people aren't also ignoring questions, but just a technical detail to bear in mind.
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I think a lot of people who get into bow building have no experience dealing with the public, and don't realize that it is both challenging and neccesary. They don't figure it into their business plan. In the last year I've personally answered over 5,000 emails and around 1,200 phone calls. It is a sizable commitment, and I can understand how easy it would be to fall short. None of us can afford to hire customer service reps. On the other hand, you really shoudn't be in business if you aren't happy, or at least willing to step up to the task.
David
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I am on my second Bob Lee and if I have questions I call him or any other bowyer I would think ,at the beginning or end of the day with less chance of stopping them while in the middle of something.With that said when buying my last bow I called a bowyer 3-times from my state and got nothing but tude didn't buy his bow.Kip
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I agree with david! i can tell you that the das is a outstanding product and david always has time for the customer. I have called him several times and he was always great! and always had time and i even bought a used das. I will always have no problem giving david the business because i know he cares about his customers thanks CHAS IN PA.
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If you are going to conduct business then it is your responsibility to maintain a professional level of service and customer concern. While I agree that a business should respond promptly to both email and phone calls here are some things to think about.
Many of the bowyers in the trad world are very small businesses with minimal staff. Often just one or two people do all the business including selling, manufacturing, material procurement, answering phone, email, bookkeeping, etc. There are a few larger outfits with secretarys and dedicated customer service staff but only a few.
You can be a very good bowyer and craftsman but a poor businessman. While these folks might be slow with contact they sometimes create beautiful and functional works of art in bows so they have a following of customers despite their "poor service"
Time off to hunt can be a problem if there is no one to asnwer phone or email while you are in the woods.
Is the bowyer a full time bow business or does he have a day job. That can be a tough goal to acheive and often results in working constantly, some details do not get handled and burnout raises it's ugly head.
Not making excuses for anybody here, I stand by my first sentence. Just wanted to add another perspective.
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Call Bill Howland in the evening and he'll give you all the time you want.
Great to deal with.
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Out west they had a storm like hurricane in winter and several communications were hard to get emails through...I never depend on email...I pick the phone up and call them...just getting over the holidays so most bowyers should be reachable...value you added service...is where its at!!!
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I'm with David....I know for a fact that I have personally cost him hours upon hours of manpower.....right, David? ;) Sorry bout that (sort of). But he is certainly one example of good customer service. The fact that he took the time to post here says so. Many other bowyers that post here are also widely know for the same.
The unfortunate truth, as you discovered NDTerminator, is that not all bowyers act like they care to be in business. I would venture a guess that somewhere between 30-40% of my bowyer contacts have left me feeling cold. I also am a stickler for customer service, and have actually sold bows I bought used because the bowyer was a jerk.
If any of the Trad sites had feedback forums like the gun/sniper forums, these guys' bow business would wither and die. No punches pulled feedback does wonders for businesspersons who want to stay in business.
-Rob
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if your are using a direct contact by email off of a website it may not work properly. like were it says fill this out and it will send a direct email to them.it sometimes doesnt work which i just found out. so i just copied the email adress and sent it directly out of my email account. i dont know if thats what your doing but that could be the problem. for me i never really trusted emails as sometimes they dont go threw and you never find out so then you think your getting ignored but they could just not be reciving the messege. so if i were you i would just call them i think its better.
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As far as emails, My experience is a problem with spam filters in responding to questions through Tradgang. There are blocked PM's also. As far as the a phone call, well, i try to get back to those asap. Just a FYI on getting back to emails. My internet provider has tried to fix my problems with getting PM's through the Gang, but there seems to be little they can do. That is my take on emails. I do agree with Chad, there are many very good bowyers who have little time to spend on the phone due to their being swamped as a result of their one or two man operations. logistically, it is almost impossible for them to respond and build bows. I suggest getting out to a show or two and meeting the bowyers in person when able. Best way to get to know someone is face to face.
Brent
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If you are in business and have a web-site and offer email would you not try to keep it up to date? I recently placed an order with a so-called bowyer, and he scolded me for using prices that were two years old! Well the prices were right off his web-site. My email was also returned-fortunately there were notes attached to my PayPal payment-which he was also ignorant about. Happily there are people like Bob Morrison, the Fedora's, Jay St. Charles and Ted Fry among the countless others who do offer outstanding customer service.
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I had an experience with a bowyer once, when, after my continuos questioning about his product said: Well, I've got bows to build, and I don't have time to stay on the phone all day.
And that is completely understandable. Because we all now how we are, when we're talking about bows and hunting.
So them comes the email era. My thinking is, what a great way to inform potential customers! Just do the emails at your convenience.
But I've had the same trouble as others with emails. Several of them I've never got a reply, some have been months later, after I bought another bow, but very few have been prompt.
Chad Weaver, at recurves.com has been great with returning emails.
The other day I emailed Jim Neaves at Centaur about his bows. He returned my email within around 24 hours, which I feel is very acceptable.
Some may say bowyers are too busy to return emails, but Jim said the wait for one of his bows was about 10 months out, so, that's busy in my opinion, but he still had time to reply.
As for myself, if someone like Chad Weaver or Jim Neaves has time to answer my emails, and inform me before I buy a "pig-in-a-poke", I wouldn't hesitate to buy from them. And the opposite will apply to the others.
hnh
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Maybe this is a good opportunity to share some ideas about how to improve things for everyone. One idea that I think could be done is to have an email utility that sends a confirmation back to the sender when an email hits the bowyers inbox. That way people at least know their message arrived. I'm not really computer savvy, but maybe some of you can help with tech ideas?
David
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Don't mean to throw a wrench at this topic but...This is not directed to anyone...Only a reflection of myself...IT'S A BOW!!! GEEEEZZ!!!
I gave alot more thought on the quality of the tires for my wifes car...Or the brand of stove for my kitchen...Or the fact I've got health issues!!!
Sorry...A bow to me is a toy! A tool to be used! Granted I'll want quality tools and pay for them...Don't guys make bows outa boards? Am I gonna call Home Depot and ask the manager about his 2X4s?...
Say Again...This is how I feel...Not pushing it on anyone else... ;) ...
.... mike .... :p
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If a custom bow from top name bowyer was "just a bow", I'd buy a 30 year old solid fiberglass Ben Pearson from a pawn shop instead.
Sure would save a lot of money...
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I said..."It's A Bow!"...NOT "just a bow"...
Again speaking for myself...Not being critical of you ND Terminator...Sorry...
I own a couple of high end Black Widows myself and use them for all I do in trad archery. Took me a long time not to worry about scratches and stuff like that. Gotta say I learned from the older guys around me to remember your bow "is a bow" and not the most important thing in your life...
Gee Wizz...I get out shot by guys with entry level bows all the time...I'm always in last place at the Muzzy Shoot!...But I had the most fun... :) ...
On the other hand...Some bow companies are just too big for the personal touch... :( ...PM "me" anytime and I'll always answer ASAP...
>>-----> mike <-----<< :jumper:
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I just bought a Fox longbow used off of Ebay. I sent them an email asking for the recommended brace height on this particular model. They not only replied, but WITHIN 20 MINUTES! Outstanding customer service!
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Originally posted by DAS Kinetic:
Maybe this is a good opportunity to share some ideas about how to improve things for everyone. One idea that I think could be done is to have an email utility that sends a confirmation back to the sender when an email hits the bowyers inbox. That way people at least know their message arrived. I'm not really computer savvy, but maybe some of you can help with tech ideas?
David
Provided one has a user account on their server and has permission to schedule cron jobs and such, autoresponses can be done trivially. There are many free solutions and perl even has a module for it. The trick would be doing it in a way that wasn't irritating. For example a back and forth correspondence can get annoying quickly with an autoresponse to every message.
Regarding email forms on websites... you guys are correct not to trust them. Most of them are very poorly written. I had to write one for a business once and I was so fed up with pre-existing solutions that I wrote one from scratch. It saved the email to a protected directory. Then a cron job attempted to send all emails in the directory every 10 minutes and did not remove them until they were successfully sent. If there was an error it'd sit there and be resent every 10 minutes until it went through. Most scripts will simply pipe the email into 'sendmail' and not even check for an error code if it fails.
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I have emailed 4 different bowyers before and only one ever replied. I think its just easier to call.
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Scott Mitchell of Timberhawk bows is a guy who understood when I had to postpone my bow order for a year because of family circumstances. Then he graciously accepted my order the second time I place it spending hours on the phone helping me decide what wood choices I would be happy with. Then he promises the bow in three months calls a week before the three months is up to let me know he missed weight by about two pounds. He offers to make new limbs if I want him to. I tell him that the weight will be ok and then he apoligizes when he realizes that he will miss the ship date he quoted me by ONE day due to Memorial Day. After I received the bow I called to let him know it arrived at which time he tells me he will call in a week or so to make sure I am satisfied. The entire experience from start to finish was exceptional and I highly recommend Scott to anyone looking for a custom bow.
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No problem, Mike. I just find the whole deal frustrating, hence this thread.
I see this got moved to the Prayer Forum. Seems a strange place for this subject. That can mean only one of two things:
A. I should try praying that I'll get an answer
or
B. I haven't got a prayer it will happen
:biglaugh:
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someone messed this up....
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I agree....there are concerns in this thread...but not of the religious type...well maybe, for some... ;)
Mods, take this one back to the main forum, please.
-Rob
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ND,
Now that was Funny!!!!
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Must have worked bringing it over to this forum. One of the bowyers got back to me!
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well I pray for you to get your answers . from KY