Trad Gang
Main Boards => Trad History/Collecting => Topic started by: Ray Lyon on July 24, 2013, 07:26:00 AM
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So here's my next refinish project (I believe this is a 1957 Kodiak based on what I see in the Bear catalog CD).
Handle is in rough shape on this side. New one will have to be installed. The cursive hand writing says 'stock', so I'm guessing this was a dealer stock bow.
(http:// [url=http://s1246.photobucket.com/user/shrewshooter/media/1957kodiak001_zpsc2a17f50.jpg.html] [img]http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg617/shrewshooter/1957kodiak001_zpsc2a17f50.jpg)[/url] [/IMG]
Limb tip overlays just popped right off. Seems like it was 'paper' glued to the glass. New glass will be glued on and reshaped. Hanging on to the originals for final shaping guide.
(http:// [url=http://s1246.photobucket.com/user/shrewshooter/media/1957kodiak005_zps2e2fa194.jpg.html] [img]http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg617/shrewshooter/1957kodiak005_zps2e2fa194.jpg)[/url] [/IMG]
String grove-lots of scuff marks here, but that will all get sanded off prior to refinish
(http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg617/shrewshooter/1957kodiak004_zpsead146c4.jpg) (http://s1246.photobucket.com/user/shrewshooter/media/1957kodiak004_zpsead146c4.jpg.html)
upper limb belly side Bear Kodiak decal. Will contact Al Harford for replacements.
(http:// [url=http://s1246.photobucket.com/user/shrewshooter/media/1957kodiak002_zpsaa967ea2.jpg.html] [img]http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg617/shrewshooter/1957kodiak002_zpsaa967ea2.jpg)[/url] [/IMG]
Lower limb belly decal
(http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg617/shrewshooter/1957kodiak003_zps922d30b1.jpg) (http://s1246.photobucket.com/user/shrewshooter/media/1957kodiak003_zps922d30b1.jpg.html)
This is a nice 48# weight and should be a smooth draw at my 28.5 inch draw with the 64 inch bow length. This refinish will also include installing a bolt on quiver insert for the side of the handle for an unused vintage 4 arrow leather top quiver. Some slight limb stress cracks to be filled as well, but really not bad considering the age.
The bow restoration 101 document will come in handy on this one.
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Before you sand it down and put on new decals you may want to try leaving the old ones on. If you're removing the finish just feather it around the silkscreens and lightly sanding some of the old finish off the top of them. From the photos they look pretty good
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OK, thanks Phil, I'll give that a whirl. What grit do you suggest for going over the top of the decals themselves??
It feels like someone had this bow sitting next to where they spray painted something. You can see some light dots on the surface of the limbs around that lower decal.
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Good luck with your project. I'm in the process of refinishing one of my '57s. It's all sanded down and ready to start applying the finish. I also have decals from Al.
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Ray, i use 220 grit lightly to start and a fine grit like 500 for finish on harder jobs. Don't go hard over decals. If you start with a fine grit you will be there for ever and go through a lot on hard jobs. Yours looks to only need a quick touch up from glass I see in your pictures. You may be able to get away with just a quick fine grit sanding to clean it up. Personally on yours I would just replace the weather wrap put about 4 coats of true oil letting each one dry thoroughly before placing another one on. Then use 0000 steel wool To buff. The worst thing you can do on a refinish; is be too anxious to get the job done quickly.
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Thanks Shane, I'll try the 220 and see if it cleans up first before going hog wild with the 100 grit.
When I refinished this 1971 Super K, I wanted to get all the yellowed finish off and get to the original riser wood colors, plus I had to plug the hole in the riser for the plunger. I suppose with this 1957 maple riser, that's not so important.
Before and after super K
(http:// [url=http://s1246.photobucket.com/user/shrewshooter/media/1971SuperKodiak.jpg.html] [img]http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg617/shrewshooter/1971SuperKodiak.jpg)[/url] [/IMG]
(http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg617/shrewshooter/1971SuperKrefinishedsideview.jpg) (http://s1246.photobucket.com/user/shrewshooter/media/1971SuperKrefinishedsideview.jpg.html)
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Just go easy on it Ray. Best of luck, and post pics if you can.
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That's going to be a beauty! Other than the tips and grip it looks very good. Keep the silkscreens like shane suggested and I would preserve the original writing too. Whatcha' gonna' finish with?
Don't forget pics!
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Bjorn,
I have not used Tru-oil before, but have seen its popular with others refinishing bows, so I'm going to give that a try if I can clean the bow up as Shane has suggested. On the Super K, I used a satin wipe-on poly since I wanted a lower sheen for hunting purposes. I was surprised at how the tip overlays just popped off. I looked at them and pried it up lightly with my thumbnail just to see if it would move and it just popped right off clean. Other than being a little brittle, the opposite side of the grip actually is in great shape. Once I saw Shane's post on the decals, I also decided to try and save the original writing.
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I had to step out for a while..
I would use 400 on the silkscreens. As Shane said, go lightly. There's a couple of coats of finish on them but it can come off quickly if you aren't careful. I would wet sand over the silkscreens. I use 100 on the rest of the bows I do followed by 220 and 400 before finishing to remove all the sanding marks.
Tru-Oil will work fine on this bow but on bows like your 71 Super Kodiak it will turn the white overlays yellow.
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Very good point about white overlays Phil!
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I worked on the lower limb last night with the 220 and 400 to see how the decal area looks. I wasn't happy with the clarity of the result so I'm going to go the replacement route. The limb is cleaning up nice and man, what a difference in finish between this and the Super K's!!!!!!!!
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Ray the true oil is easy to work with, i think you will like it.After you get the last coat on you use 0000 steel woolto get it smoothed up and use a rubbing compound on it. Birchwood casey,makes a rubbing compound just for their true oil but you can use others too. You use that to buff it and you will get a shine that looks very good without that plastic look.Done right and it will look just like a factory finish.
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Ray I did not see anything on that 57 that looked like it was in bad shape. I would gently wet sand the limbs with 320 and the riser looks good too. I have often used Tru Oil without removing all of the old finish if it is still OK.
As far as the tips are concerned they are Micarta which is fiberglass impregnated paper. If you soak the tips with a coat of CA glue they will absorb it and be ready for another decade or two. In my experience less is more when dealing with old bows. Now if you want to do a job like the bowdoc that is a whole different story.
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Cool project Mr. Lyon.
I'm looking for a used '56 or '57 because I heard they're good shooters.
If (once) I find one, I'm excited to hunt with it in northern Michigan. I think it'd be very cool to hunt with one near Mr. Bear's old stomping grounds. I hunt whitetails and grouse near Bellaire and drive through Grayling every time I head up to the family cabin to fish or hunt.
If you have time, it'd be great to see pics along with your project. I'll be following along.
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Samuel,
Not even my dad is know as Mr. Lyon. I'm old, but not that old. :eek: ;)
The finish is all stripped off and it cleaned up extremely nice.
I've got decals on the way and I've also got the first limb tip overlay replacements under construction. Four layers of alternating white and brown glass then some file work.
Will try to find some Birchwood Casey True Oil. Struck out at Home Depot and two of the top end hardware stores in the area. I'm going to try one of the old gun shops in town as I think I remember them having it years ago.
I rounded out the arrow shelf a little as well. It sloped from a low spot at the belly side of the bow to a high spot at the back of the bow. I crowned this slightly in the center.
Vegetable tanned 2-3 ounce leather is on the way and that will be cut and skived appropriately. Limb tip reconstruction will be my first ever, so I'm going very slow. Fortunately I've got the originals still to give me a guide for replicating. The other little trick will be installing the quiver insert in the riser since it did not have one originally.
If all goes according to plan, it should be ready in plenty of time to practice before the October 1 archery deer opener here in MI. :thumbsup: :archer:
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I am following with interest, there are several Bears 1955 - 58 and one 69 that I will be doing the same thing. If you can't find the Tru Oil locally, or on line, let me know and I send some.
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Hud, thanks for the offer, I just called the local gun shop and they just got an order in today (they've been out for several weeks).
The one thing I saw on the Birchwood Casey website (FAQ section) was that you can rub out with an abrasive material after at least a month after applying, is this what others are doing????
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As I mentioned the bow cleaned up nice.
I finished one limb tip last night (I may have to fine tune once I sting up and test the string tracking). Wow, replacing tips is a labor of love for sure. Probably about 2 hours total time per tip is what I'll end up with. Also, I should have stacked my overlays a little closer. I thought I was going to cut down on sanding, but it doesn't feather in as nicely since there's a slight straight edge at the transition of each overlay. Some final cleanup to balance the edge lines as well. Photo was taken off center a little, so it doesn't quite look symmetrical from this angle, but they're pretty even looking straight on. It looks ugly to start with (note a little of the felt pad protecting the c clamp jaws stuck to the last overlay as I must have got a little glue on it, but it cleaned off fine)
(http:// [url=http://s1246.photobucket.com/user/shrewshooter/media/1957Kodiak015_zps9fe81818.jpg.html] [img]http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg617/shrewshooter/1957Kodiak015_zps9fe81818.jpg)[/url] [/IMG]
(http:// [url=http://s1246.photobucket.com/user/shrewshooter/media/1957Kodiak024_zpsfd1e9eb9.jpg.html] [img]http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg617/shrewshooter/1957Kodiak024_zpsfd1e9eb9.jpg)[/url] [/IMG]
(http:// [url=http://s1246.photobucket.com/user/shrewshooter/media/1957Kodiak025_zps5d1bd58c.jpg.html] [img]http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg617/shrewshooter/1957Kodiak025_zps5d1bd58c.jpg)[/url] [/IMG]
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The tip looks good. I've never tackled that but may try it if I get the right bow.
About rubbing out finish - I don't know about Tru Oil but on the finish I use - auto clearcoat - the directions say to wait a week. I've found that if I don't let the coats dry thoroughly as I apply them the finish underneath may not completely dry and when I use polishing or rubbing compound it creates cloudy spots.
My process after the final coats of finish are applied and dry is to wet sand with finer grits down to 2000 and then polish with auto clearcoat swirl remover. I've works well but I've found that if I wait about two weeks and polish with the swirl remover again it really brings a gloss to the finish.
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Very nice work, Ray.
Your first day working for Bear Archery, and it looks like you will keep your job. Keep it up and you will become an old dog like Phil.
Another great benefit on doing the tips yourself is that the USPS, UPS, or FedEx handlers aren't going to crunch them in a conveyer after you've waited a year or two to get them back from somebody else.
(Just don't let your wife know you are training to become a professional manicurist!)
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Good point on not letting the wife know about being a "manicurist" ;o) Also never let her see you rub tru oil on the bow or she will want you to rub her feet with oil or lotion frequently. I am speaking from experience! Woman expect such treatment even if their feet stink. Keep that in the back your mind. Just a warning.
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(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z117/katswal/Extreme-manicure-04_zpsb9d07d2b.jpg) (http://s190.photobucket.com/user/katswal/media/Extreme-manicure-04_zpsb9d07d2b.jpg.html)
I posted this as a warning. Less is more.
DO NOT GET CARRIED AWAY!
No joke! A few years ago, a guy was actually doing something like this to the risers of old 1960 era Bear recurves. They really looked like they had coral reef formations. He was trying to make a fast buck out of flipping old bows, but before he did much damage, he went out of business.
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Well I've got the second tip shaped and nock groves cut. I'm going to have to make a string this weekend to test the nock alignment on the bow since the vintage bear string I got for a 64" amo bow was only 57.5 inches. I didn't even attempt stringing the bow with that.
Hopefully I get a coat or two of true oil on this weekend as well.
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Make sure not to let the wife see you ray ;o)
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Shane, she did not see me shaping those tips!!!! ;) ;)
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If she does catch you rubbin in the true oil and make you give her a foot massage, just use the true oil for that too, she wont ask you again.
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hehehe
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Well, I couldn't help but to shoot a few arrows out of this before it was done. Decals, inked specs and 3 coats of finish on (I didn't like the tru oil so I removed and put wipe on poly on). Even with just some painters tape on as the rest, I'm very impressed. It draws smooth (but at 64" I anticipated as much) and spits an arrow out very nicely and pretty quiet with not silencers and eyeballing nock point. The string is tracking nicely back into the groves, so I'm very pleased with how the tip overlays came out. Hopefully hero photo's will be available to post soon.
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p.s., my wife loves foot massages at home while we're watching movies on our big screen TV. I'll continue to skip the tru oil on those however.
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Ok,,i will come clean,,im not as he man as i let on.My wife loves foot massages too but its worth it because she brings me coffee refills and has not one time put true oil in it.
True oil is a good finish but it does take a long time to dry most of the time.Thats why i dont use it anymore. I used to make split cane flyrods and i tried all types of finish and what worked best for me was Helmsmen spar urethane. Thats what i use on bows too.It can be picky about drying too but if you thin it a bit it drys better.Also if you warm it with a hair drier and let it hang and repeat once in a while it will dry pretty fast. Something about the warm cool warm cool.It polishes up nice with a rubbing compound too and you dont have to wait near as long as you do with true oil.The guys that make cane flyrods have done a lot of research and testing on diffrent varnishes and Helmsmen spar was one of the better ones.Also, always use the high gloss even if you want a semi gloss as the semi gloss or satin do not have as good of UV protection in them. Its best to use high gloss and steel wool after the last coat and use rubbing compound to bring back as much or little gloss as you want. Your new tip overlays look very nice by the way!