Trad Gang
Main Boards => Trad History/Collecting => Topic started by: jim g on March 19, 2012, 01:04:00 PM
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Just heard from our Bear rep, next year,s 80th anniversary bow might be a 59 Kodiak remake, that will be cool.
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Hope they offer the 64" version. Lots of details to the 59' Kodiak. Quality craftsmanship is the key to doing it right.
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If what Steve95 says is true, Bear may not be able to do it right unless they really focus on your last sentence before the first goal:profit.
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It is true. They will be offering vintage-bear reproductions.
I look forward to getting mine.
I'm told they have hired/trained some very good bowyers.
Let's support bear archery. Most of their sales/ profits are in compound bows and such and yet they still produce traditional bows. I applaud them.
........Philip
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Kudos to Bear Archery. I am glad to see that they are still making traditional bows. A lot of other companies have not been able to do this.
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wow a nice 56" Kodiak would be great to shoot, any Bear bow is fun to shoot new old i like them all
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They got my support.
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At least they're trying. What they are producing now is decent. No other bow company I know of is recreating it's past. Good for Bear !
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I enjoy looking at the new one's to see how much difference there is (ie. beefed up limb tips for ff and crowning of the shelf) and especially look closely at the craftsmenship. I prefer to collect and own the older Grayling Bears but I do look forward to getting a look at the new version of the 59! Be interesting to see what woods they use....
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They are not perfect but I like 'em. Hope they make a 64" and I will buy one. Just wish they would ship my new riser.
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Just call me old fashioned...
I would have guessed that an 80th anniversary bow would be a remake of a selfbow that was made 80 years earlier in 1933, rather than a remake of a 1959 Kodiak, that was made 54 years ago (next year).
In 2013, wouldn't a remake of a 1959 Kodiak, be a 54th anniversary bow?
Is it just me, or does the math just not come out at 80 for 54 year old bow?
Bear missed the boat by not producing a 50 year anniversary 1959 Kodiak in 2009.
They also missed the boat with a 50th anniversary 1960 Kodiak in 2010.
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I thought I was the only one that had that thought Wade.
Now then, An 80th Anniversary "celebration" that was to re-introduce some old classic Bears, Now that might be kinda cool
I would be very surprised if a self bow ever came out of Bears Shop again.
But that would be cool.
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Just a thought, like a 59 with a maple riser and limbs, any color glass, some nice flat black finish, leather on the grip. O and make it sell for under $400.00. I think it would be more to Freds likeing to see them out in the woods again. An what a lead in for people to get to know your bows. Back in the 50's and 60's the first thing we did was spray then flat black and get ready for deer season.
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I know that many people is fascinated by the world Bear Archery,but also if they make a revival and a better one too,well it would be just a copy never the original anymore.
It is like to reproduce the Gioconda,maybe better,but what can it be his historical value and interest.Old Fred at his times was able to change the models year after year,all great bows,all original.The rest are just been copy not as good as others made by some custom bowyers.I personally,never will buy a Bear bow made now aday that are mere copies of the original Grayling beauties.I rather buy a custom original or a vintage original.IMO.
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Bear must feel that the market is there. Where was the 1982 Sig TD made? I would hate to see Bear Archery fade away. I agree that the Gainesville bows don't have it like the Grayling bows, but they still bare the name of the company that Fred started.
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I would consider a 50th anniversary dogleg Kodiak, but I am guessing I would be in a short line waiting for that.
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Wonder if I should bid on the feather rest contract?
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I am so glad to get wired again I mean fixed up on line again or at least real soon maybe tomorrow.God I miss this place like you would no believe bd
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Yes I get the big business part. That point can't be disputed. I wont buy from Primos because they wrecked Double Bull. Hadn't thought of it that way!
Question: is a '70 riser worth any more or less with the built-in sight window?
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Shot my first small Iowa buck with a Gainsesville Super K...probably would have been bigger if I would have taken him with a Grayling built bow. Just my 2 cents...a buck doesn't care what he shot with!
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bd this place loves you too. Now post some pics that make me drool. Oh wait, this post is about modern Bears. But they do seem to shoot good. Or atleast the 9 year old one I have does, even though 9 years ago guys bashed those take downs too. Sure wish I could afford a Type I or II or even a green striper, but alas, I can't.
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I have shot quiet a few old Bear bows and several of the newer ones. Truthfully I couldn't say an old one shot better than a new model. To me the difference lies mainly in cosmetics, although the newer Bears are looking much better, and not all of the older Bears were all that good looking anyway. As far as overpriced-I have seen more "custom" bows that would fit that category than the line-up from Bear. I don't know what the profit margin is with Bear traditional bows, but what do think a fair wage is for someone making them? I have also had more problems with custom bows than I have with production bows (although this number is very small in both cases). 50th Anniversery bow-I think the '59 Kodiak would be a great choice. My preference, brown glass, maple riser, 64"; as close to the original model as you can get. I really don't need any antler overlays, checkering, carving, sippling, exotic veneers, inlays, high-gloss, etc.
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I say give em' a chance to "get it right". However....If you are working a Bear archery stand at DENTON HILL and there is a Fred Bear video playing in your stand and you DONT KNOW WHO IT IS,.........well that pretty embarrassing. Shame on them...
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I just saw a new bubinga t/d. I was excited until I picked it up. The grip was not a bow grip, and the lower limb socket was not properly seated. It had an 1/8 inch gap at least and looked as though it was about to fall off.
I would like Bear to make nice bows. If I could get a Bubunga handle that was properly shaped (like a green stripe or type II) I would order it. I would.
Why should Bear be given a pass for making horrible bows of quality that would put any independant bowyer out of business? If anything Bear should be scrutinized harder because they have been making bows for 80 years!
I don't agree with the at least they are trying sentiment, if you are going to build a bow, build it right. If it is inferior do not ship it out.
There are so many fantastic bowyers around who make fantastic bows. Bear has a huge advantage in lower costs for materials and fantastic equipment, there is just no excuse to make a crap bow and sell it for 619.99.
In a tough economy like this I take it as a slap in the face to the good bowyers around who sell their bows for the same price (or less).
Do you want to support Bear's willingness to build old models? How about calling/emailing/etc. and tell them that there are serious issues with quality control; and, the product they are making is inferior to nearly every contemporary bow maker around. Tell them that you will buy their bows if they show enough respect for their consumers in the form of a quality product.
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I would also had that Bear never stopped making recurves. They have been making them all along. The lapse in quality is over the last two years, since they revamped the line and received more orders than they could fill. "Give 'em a chance" should be reserved for neophytes, not companys with 80 years of experience.
BY THE WAY, NONE OF THIS IS DIRECTED TOWARDS FELLOW ARCHERS WHO ARE FINE WITH HOW BEAR IS OPERATING. It is just my opinion, and is directed towards Bear.
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The currant issues with Bear's quality control is not a new issue. Those of us older Guys may remember when Fred sold out to Victor Compomter.(sp) Bear' quality control went south with bows being sold at Woolworths. The same complaints I see about today's bows were voiced by us back then. I was looked down upon as a real newbie when I showed up with my 1973 SK. IMHO Bear never recovered from that time. It became a production only company and has stayed that way.
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Its funny when Fred moved to Grayling Grumley would not go because he felt bows where not to be built by production. Fred begged him to come. He stayed and was out of buisness in a few years. Guess Bear Archery just went down hill from that point! Never again to produce quality bows as Grumley seen it.
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The new Bears just can't compare to what is available from the many talented bowyers many of whom who are sponsors of this site.
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I would agree with you Bjorn. But custom is a losely used word. Not all bowyers are ceated equally and just like anything it takes time to learn the craft. In some instances a factory bow may be the better opption. There is Remington and Winchester Firearms then there is Cooper and Dakota Arms. All good just a big diffrence between the factory and custom work. I feel Bear is trying and I think they deserve a chance there going to have growing pains! If people feel they can get a custom bow for the same price as a Bear bow that is a personal choice. It does not mean Bear is out of line on prices it just means that is what they need to stay in buisness. I also think some people could use a little buisness schooling.
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I must be the odd ball but I had the chance to hold and shoot two of the new Bubinga risers this past weekend. I looked them over closely and the A riser with a serial no. of 15 felt almost like a Type 2. I plugged in on set of RER limbs and I never skipped a beat it felt and shot like my Type 2 with a similar weight RER limbs. If you want the Bear TD experience and want to do it without breaking the bank you cannot go wrong with the Bubinga risers. Up close and personal they look and feel good. Now if I can only find a set of No. 1 yew veneer bear limbs in 45 lbs. to go with it I will be as happy as a kid at Xmas.
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It can't be easy being Bear Archery. There are as many opinions as there shooters as there were 50-60 years ago. Not everybody was happy with Bear then either, Browning, Pearson, Wing among others satisfied alot of folks.
Bringing back an anniversry model every year sounds like a good idea but are they going to run them for just that year or continue on afterwards, (which would be nice) what bows do you bring back, just the Kodiaks? There are some Grizzlys that were popular too. Then folks are going to want Purpleheart, Maple and other woods for sight windows, it would be nice to see those models reappear, would folks be happy with just a Bubinga handle and site window? Do you bring back all the years, don't hear alot of talk about the '61 Kodiak and do you continue on into the Super Kodiak line and how many model years of those do you bring back, the late '60 and early '70 models are what people are after.
As an 80th anniversay celebration, bringing back the '59 Kodiak is a good choice as I see it, arguably one of the most famous and sought after of the Bear bows. I think bringing back the A and B Mags would be a good choice down the line as a less expensive model of the takedown as it was in the '70s.
The problem I here the most is about the finish not that the bows aren't performing well. It seems also that the representatives out in the field at shoots aren't really in touch with our community or there own product for that matter.
As for pricing, they weren't that cheap in the '60s which made the Grizzly a popular choice back then as "the workin' mans bow". I guess there are alot of things to consider and you'll never make everyone happy. I'm sure they'll get better.
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I would LOVE to see BEAR ARCHERY come out with some cool quality Anniversary bows,but the sad fact is they MUST make $$$ OR the Traditional Line will be no more and they came right from BEAR factory stickbow shooter !!!
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Last year at the TBOF Spring Shoot in Ocala, Fl. I was talking to the Bear Rep from Gainesville. He told me at the time that Bear was committed to bringing the traditional bows back to the forefront.And after talking to Big Jim at the Tennessee Classic a couple of weeks ago it seems like they have some very good traditional bowyers working there now. He has a recurve they are building for him, custom, that will be finished except for carving the riser. He is doing that hisself.
He said I could see it at our Fall shoot in August.
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Just to add- my concern with a new bow is not how fast, or to some extent what it looks like. I am concerned with quality control. I want it to look good, and shoot well, what I can't accept is poor craftsmanship. The designs are set, the tools are there, please Bear just build a quality bow!
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I can rememeber when guys were saying that the green stripe future wool were junk--- today they are becoming collectors items--
Thanks Philip for selling me that green stripe
and that Employee bow with the Gold latches---
I will have to post a photo----
So in 5-10 -15 years from now, will these bows be collectable ??? the next generation of trad guys are coming--- the old bows are just that old and collectable.
Lets not turn off the next generation --- I will post some photo's I took at ATA Show from the Bear Booth- great looking product--- nice display---
At ATA--- there were quite a few traditional companies there from all over.
It's all good, lets support these US companies--
Classicbowman . It all helps----
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Give me one of Ed Holcomb's '59 reproductions any day of the week over any '59 Kodiak ever made. Actually, I have two and the quality and craftsmanship is incredible. Thanks again Ed for a pair of treasures.
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Originally posted by classicbowman:
I can rememeber when guys were saying that the green stripe future wool were junk--- today they are becoming collectors items--
Thanks Philip for selling me that green stripe
and that Employee bow with the Gold latches---
I will have to post a photo----
So in 5-10 -15 years from now, will these bows be collectable ??? the next generation of trad guys are coming--- the old bows are just that old and collectable.
Lets not turn off the next generation --- I will post some photo's I took at ATA Show from the Bear Booth- great looking product--- nice display---
At ATA--- there were quite a few traditional companies there from all over.
It's all good, lets support these US companies--
Classicbowman . It all helps----
Your welcome Rob. Post a picture for others to see.
She is a special Bear T/D!
My latest acquisition is the finest Bear take down I have ever had the pleasure to own.
It was mine years ago and I sold it. Mistake. :knothead:
It found it's way back home and I sold it again. Mistake Again!
:banghead:
This time however, I had gone over the cliff to get it back and she's home TO STAY!
..........Philip