Trad Gang
Main Boards => Trad History/Collecting => Topic started by: AALLFAB on December 06, 2011, 12:12:00 AM
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280778850297. Since the 56" is being discussed in another thread what about this one on the auction site. I was bidding triple the sale price when my computer froze up and I only had one minute to get my phone bid going and did not make it. I have only seen one butcher block window bow and have never seen a 1960 56" at all and a 1 in 100 lefty on top of that in the AA serial number. Come on experts chime in and educate us all further on the 56" Kodiak topic. Jim
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Jim -
Judging from the dozens of 1960 Kodiaks I have seen and owned over the years, the number of left hand bows is undoubtedly much greater than the 1 in 100 comment in your post.
1960 Kodiak Butcher Blocks are rare but probably not nearly as rare as you my think.
They were made in all three lengths, 56", 60" and 64" as shown in the photograph below.
Keep looking, it may take a while, but you will find another lefty to bid on...
(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/1960BB.jpg)
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So what about lefty and butcher block and 56 inch in combination with AA prefix. You have one with holes there as the other I am showing has holes but yours is not a lefty and not an AA prefix like the Maple window 56 inchers in another thread are AA bows. Additionally I got the 1% speculation from Al Reader as his stated to me rule of thumb. Jim
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I had my computer freeze up right in the same set of circumstances too-awful. Anyway on to the 56" bows. The lefthandedness is likely more of an obstacle than anything else to you finding the right bow.
I just looked at my 1960 56" and the AA is likely a common serial number prefix of 1960 56" bows, I forget but others will know.
The bow in question probably went low in price because it was cracked, had a hole, was left handed, and a weight deemed undesirable by most-wow there was a lot bad about that bow! :bigsmyl:
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Originally posted by AALLFAB:
... and a 1 in 100 lefty on top of that...
Jim I interpreted your comment as shown above, lefty's are rare but not as rare as 1 in 100 of left hand vs right hand.
And I assumed you were looking for a left hand 1960 Kodiak.
If you simply want to speculate on the rarity of a 1960 Kodiak, with a Butcher Block Sight Window, in 56", left hand, with an AA serial number, I am sorry to say, I have never tried to make that calculation.
When you add in the fact that the bow was under 40# and had a cracked riser, I can easily believe it would be a 1 in 100 or more find.
The two dark spots in the sight window of the 56" RH Butcher Block are not holes, they are small gouges likely caused by someone dropping the bow on a rock or some other extremely rough surface.
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Beautiful bows there Wade; as usual. :thumbsup:
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Originally posted by AALLFAB:
... and not an AA prefix like the Maple window 56 inchers in another thread are AA bows....
Jim the only 56" AA Maple Sight Window that I am aware of is the one I have.
I was under the impression that only other 56" Maple Sight Window had a serial number that was not readable.
Have I missed some other 56" MSW Bows in another thread...
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Nice that those are not holes. That photo makes the second 56" 1960 I have seen and now I am up to 4 on the butcher block. Maybe I have seen more butcher block bows but did not notice because the laminations were with the grain. This thread has already furthered my small Bear knowledge by a large margin. Thanks so far guys. Jim
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Bjorn -
Glad you like the Butcher Blocks. The sight window of that 64" looks great in person, and shoots great too. I'm mostly a 60" bow guy.
I looking at the photograph, I have to wonder about my sanity knowing everything I went through to get those three bows. I dove from Omaha to Michigan to pick one up, then went to St. Louis to get another of them.
All collectors are crazy...
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Jim -
You are right about Butcher Blocks. Over the years I have seen some Butcher Blocks on auction that were not identified as such by the seller.
As Bjorn points out the AA would likely be the more common serial number sequence. The 56" bows were not nearly as big of sellers as the 60" nor the 64" that is why so few have surfaced for collectors to find.
As 1960 Kodiaks go, I would have to guess the Wedge Sight Window 1960 Kodiak is rarer then the Butcher Block Sight Window 1960 Kodiak. I say that because I have seen more Butcher Blocks than Wedges.
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"Wedge" sight window? Wade if you get a chance perhaps we could persuade you to post a pic?
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Bjorn -
I'm sure you have seen photographs of the 1957 & 1959 to 1962 Wedge SW Kodiaks.
They were the heavy weight bows made in 64" in 59 and 60, and made in 60" in 61 & 62.
This 1960 is shown with other 1960s for comparison...
The Wedge Sight Window is like the 1954 to 1956 Kodiaks...
(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/1960Wedge.jpg)
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Sorry to keep you up so late Wade...........I have seen pics of that particular bow and did not know the name. That is one beautiful bow, and as I recall over 100#? Thanks for the pic Wade.
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Bjorn -
The Wedge SW 1960 in the photograph above is only 90#. But even at only 90#, it is a real piece of lumber with that Rosewood Riser.
Also have two Wedge SW Kodiaks in other years that are 100#, one 80# and two that are 70#.
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"Only 90#"? I'd want to make sure my AARP supplemental insurance was current prior to stringing that baby!
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Even more schooling now. I never knew or noticed different window cuts. Jim
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I love this place no chit I swear it saved me and compared with other things I did when I was a younger man at 2 AM ..... oh yeah this place is a safe haven for old bowhunters bd
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I'll post some good pic's of the bow when I get it,hopefully by the end of the week
doug77
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Jim -
Yes, the Wedge Sight Window is a Rare Bow in a 1960 Kodiak, and rarer than a Butcher Block 1960...
However, the rarest Kodiak of all that year is probably the Clear Glass 1960 Kodiak...
Actually, the Clear Glass 1960 Kodiak is a documented bow in the 1960 Catalog.
I'm not referring to the Kodiak Deluxe nor Kodiak Special Deluxe as they were built with different risers. Both are beautiful bows and great shooters.
The 1960 Kodiak Deluxe ranks near the top of the All Time Favorite Vintage Bear Bows.
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My butcherblock '60 Kodiak is 60" 50# BJ227. Unfortunately it has seen better days: cracked limb and some bozo installed quiver bushings at the fades!!!!
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Were there 2 versions of the Kodiak DeLuxe? I see one in the catalog with a regular looking riser. My bow has a silk that says "Kodiak DeLuxe" but does not look like the bow in the catalog.
(http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q291/bjornweb/1960KodiakDL.jpg)
I just took the pic with my phone and it is kinda' fuzzy.
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Yes, they made 2 bows Bjorn.
One was the Kodiak special deluxe and the Kodiak Deluxe.
As custom as any bow we see today as you know.
Here's my Deluxe...........Philip
(http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt247/87philip/phil10-1.jpg)
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The # of yours is outstanding!
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Originally posted by Bjorn:
Were there 2 versions of the Kodiak DeLuxe?
Bjorn - The Supposed Kodiak Deluxe shown in the 1960 Catalog is actually a Clear Glass 1960 Kodiak.
There really is no 1960 Kodiak Deluxe shown in the 1960 Catalog, only the Kodiak Special Deluxe, the Clear Glass Kodiak, and the Kodiak.
The usual Deluxe suspects lined up by length...
56", HA001, first 56" Deluxe made
60", IA723, yes, I am still looking for IA001
64", LA001, first 64" Deluxe made
100# Wedge Sight Window Deluxe, the only one I have ever heard about.
(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/1960KDeluxe.jpg)
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Ok WOW I just looked at the 1960 cat and in the crystalight add on the right I am noticing for the first time a 1960 kodiak looking shape riser with clear glass and no crescent in the riser. Is this the bow you are talking about and do you have one to show. Jim
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Jim - Glad you looked in the 1960 Catalog and now realize that in that Catalog, no Kodiak Deluxe is shown as we know them.
Yes, I have a clear glass Kodiak like the one that is shown in the 1960 Catalog as the Kodiak Deluxe. I was very fortunate to pick it up a few years ago after looking for one for many years.
The one I have is not the one shown in the 1960 Catalog as it has a different grain in the wood under the clear glass.
So we know that at least two were made. In the future, I wouldn't be surprised to see more surface and wind up in the hands of collectors.
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cool hope to see it here soon.
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Maybe I don't understand about the top collectible bow..........
I have the bow on the left and never seen the one on the right. Is the one one the right the sought after one?
(http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q291/bjornweb/1960KdeluxeandK.jpg)
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Bjorn -
Yes you are correct. The bow on the right is not a Kodiak Deluxe as we collectors know them to be.
It is a standard 1960 Kodiak with a Zebrawood Lamination under the Clear Glass.
I usually refer to it as the Clear Glass 1960 Kodiak or 1960 Kodiak with Clear Glass because it is built on the 1960 Kodiak Form and has the standard 1960 Kodiak Brazilian Rosewood I-Beam Riser.
The reason I mentioned it would have to be the top collectible 1960 Kodiak is that only one is known to be in the hands of collectors and it is documented in the 1960 Catalog.
I believe we covered this subject 2 or 3 years ago in an earlier thread.
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Here's the wedge sight window on my 97# Kodiak.
(http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z134/Horney_Toad/kod-1.jpg)
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Seems like the more I learn the less I know about the Kodiaks. What exactly is a Butcher Block? If the BB are shown in Wade's post at the beginning of this thread, I believe I have both, a 56 inch and 60 Butcher Block 1960 Kodiak bow. The 1960 Kodiak Deluxe I have also has a slight bevel on the shelf - would that also be a Butcher block? What years did Bear make Kodiak bows with the Butcher Block and Wedge Sight Windows? Sorry for all the questions, just trying to learn as much as I can from those of you who know. Thanks, Dave
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Dave- I personally don't recall seeing a butcherblock sight wndow on any other year Kodiak besides 1960.Not saying there isn't one out there,I just haven't seen one that I recall.
And yes,Bear did make 1960 kodiaks without the butcherblock sight window.I believe you will find there are more 1960 Kodiaks "without" butcherblock sight windows than with.
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JR, How rare are the Wedge Sight Window Kodiaks? Were they too only made in 1960? I have never seen one till looking at this thread. Dave
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Dave- The wedge sight window bows are relatively rare as well.I have seen a few in various collections and have owned a few myself.Most I have seen are found on the heavier weight bows.The lightest wedge window I have owned was on a '61 Kodiak that was 70#.I have also seen a '62 Kodiak with a wedge sight window and 70#.The heaviest wedge sight window bow I have ever seen is a left-handed 1959 Kodiak that I currently own.It is marked 123#.Not sure if this is the actual weight as I have not yet tried to string it and pull it back to 28" to check it.Also the '61 and '62 Kodiaks were both 60" bows,most all of the other wedge sight window bows I have seen were 64".Here is a couple of pictures of the '59 Kodiak along with my other '59's from another thread.It's the bow on top that looks like a 2X4.
(http://i475.photobucket.com/albums/rr118/johnnyrazorhead/1959KodiaksallI.jpg)
(http://i475.photobucket.com/albums/rr118/johnnyrazorhead/1959KodiaksallII.jpg)
Here is another photo I found of three different wedge sight window Kodiaks.The '59 shown in the previous pics,a 1960 Kodiak,64",90# with no coin,and a 100# Kodiak DeLuxe currently in the Wade Phillips collection.
(http://i475.photobucket.com/albums/rr118/johnnyrazorhead/oddballheavyweightsall.jpg)
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Wow guys sweet stuff. Still waiting on the photo of clear glass 1960 Kodiak. Jim
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I have a 67 Hunter kodiak made with a pieced risor. I also have a Tigercat that is made from pieces. Do these count?Was this done for strength, like pylewood, or were they just making all the bows they could make with the wood on hand.
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Gonna bring this one back for a couple of reasons...I have a consecutive serial number pair of 1960 Kodiaks with butcher block i beam...it is a lamination within a lamination...the butcher block is made with strips of Brazilian rosewood about a quarter inch wide glued together...that piece is then laminated between two other pieces of Brazilian rosewood to form the riser...the material you see in the sight window actually extends fade to fade...one guess about the reason for the butcher block is that it was a way to utilise pieces that would simply have been scrap...the other reason for bringing it back is the great pictures of 1960 Kodiak
DDave
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Love seeing these! Have a few 59's on the way. One may be a basket case, but in hopes it is better than the pics I saw, and that they were just deceiving. Kept the price down very very low. If the laminate is still good, I got a steal! :pray:
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I have a 1958 56" lefty Kodiak I bought off another nice tradganger....it zips an arrow...#50 at 26" on the shelf ... a sow belly...I am pretty sure its a rare bow
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trubltrubl -
You are correct, the 1958 Sow Belly Kodiak is a pretty rare bow, I have three 56" 1958 Sow Belly Kodiaks, one LH and two RH, each with a different riser configuration, and one that is factory camo. Have owned one more 56" Sow Belly and seen less than a dozen others over the years.
However, in my limited experience as a collector, the white glass 1957 Kodiak (predecessor of the Sow Belly)has clearly proven to be a much rarer bow.
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Your so modest Mr. Phillips. So how do you tell a 57 from a 58 sow belly.
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John your toes look nice- and Clean !!!!!!!!
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I have both a 1957 white glass kodiak and a 1958 white glass kodiak. If anyone would like pics I can send to email addresses. There is a difference in the risers with the 57 being thinner.
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If they don't wind your watch, what will....geeze..!!!