Trad Gang
Main Boards => Trad History/Collecting => Topic started by: SlowBowke on March 05, 2011, 06:45:00 AM
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The "fifty's style" recurves made a comeback some time ago and several bowyers make some nice ones.
Dumbed into this one and little to no info on it except I noticed the "woven" glass and the wound leather grip was common on a few about then too, and some years later.
I'm sure there were other mfgs using the woven glass, other than Bear, then but the combo of the glass, the grip and the over all shape of the bow seemed ( to guys like me without much knowledge) to point at an early 50's something or other.
Anyone recognize the grip style with the weight written on the riser of such a bow with such glass...........even a guess?
Thought maybe the glass and grip with red/white/blue edges might spark a memory or two.
More later when in my hand and looked over.
Just thought it too neat to pass up for the price so not horribly important but curious.
MIGHT blow up in my face LOL.
Kinda thought Ben Pearson at first......but looks more Black Hawk style in the grip but no info on even if Blackhawk bows from the Cravotta's were ever around that early.
God Bless
Steve
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj170/Steve692/50srecurve.jpg)
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj170/Steve692/50srecurveglass.jpg)
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj170/Steve692/50srecurvegrip.jpg)
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looks like toxhorn glass on the back aka cross weave might be a Stallion ? bd
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Thanks, Doc......Ill take several photos of it when it arrives if I find any tell tale markings.
You'd know far more than me.....one to compare to later on though. Might be tough to find a Stallion that old. 60s looked NOTHING like this lol
God Bless
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Cool bow :thumbsup:
Chuck
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Help with SOME kind of THIN leather or ? for strike plate and rest......or just forget it and shoot?
Arghhh. lol
Seems to be about 62 inch AMO, VERY tiny grip, less than an inch thick, maybe 1.5 deep and IS definately around 55lbs but no string yet.
More later but this has me stumped.
Just hoping it don't turn into a "loctite repair" endeavor. :scared:
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj170/Steve692/IMG_0547.jpg)
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Appears to be the toxhorn, but term/materal was news to me, Doc
Interesting that it's on the back? Most references Im finding on toxhorn was belly material for compression capacities?
Fiberglass belly, two layer wood (maple Id say) limb construction between the two, the belly one half again in thickness or close.
LIGHT? oh my word...weighs zilch
Just investigating shooting this old beastie and what I can find out about some no name whichamajjiger bow.......that hopefully would like to go back to the woods.
Appreciate any and all help for a new old bow lover.
kinda
God bless
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Hi Steve,
FWIW, I have a 1950's Ben Pearson longbow that has woven glass similar to yours (looks the same except my bow it green, and has it on the back and belly).
Sent you a PM.
RonP
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Replied......just FWIW....this dont blow.....the plastic on the top and bottom of the leather grip is GOING.....arghh.
Hoping to make it a deer whacker for here in IN this fall!
The other bow I posted about....deal fell through but probably a good thing. Fade out cracks and the seller had the decency when he saw that to send my money back.
Another I traded for.......twisted limb beyond what I feel is repairable.
One longbow deal, on the way now.......about afraid to open it when it comes. LOL
Such fun, such HEADACHES........and admitting to such ignorance on OLD bows is disconcerting.
thanks for all the help guys. Sorry to take time off from "bears".....someday a 59 K or KS will fly my way.
Till then, and even then......these old "no clue what they are, 35 dollars specials" are a KICK!
God Bless
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Nothing special, as expected.
What I've found is that Al Reader had something also with a "OUTDOOR SPORTS MFG CO" sticker listed for 1945. "Maker Unknown". Yeah, I know, I forgot to add that earlier after I got it. Sorry.
Ive found a couple other bows with similar stickers. Three longbows with clear, large stickers saying the same. All were children's longbows of very light weight. The sticker on mine is quite small, long and narrow, and paper based.
One "Impala" recurve also found with the same clear, large sticker. This was the only one without the leather grip and obviously a later model with full blown "pistol" type grip and arrow shelf.
Oddly, the one I have is the only one over 25lbs I've yet to find.
The tell tale red/white/blue Plastic grip end wraps on the wrapped leather grip seem consistant on the earlier models. I find this odd but maybe not? Plastic?
Just an old "thumper" that so far, is shooting just fine, quite impressively, actually. My 62 year old, life long trad hunting buddy and best friend, shooter of 42-47lbs since "who tied the pup" as he says, shot it and frowned.......
"HOW COME THIS DON"T FEEL LIKE 55LBS???!!!! That shoots NICE!"
The only string he had "close" put the brace height at 7.25 inches, with a draw weight at that brace height of 57lbs @28. Belly measured n to n it's exactly 61 inches.
For some reason I expect the "perfect" brace height to be close to 6.5....not sure why. Just something in my memory saying "knock, knock, knock......hello Dummy".
For me, it has it's own appeal and is obviously from somewhere around my birth year (but limb design seems to point to the later 50s to me) so I feel it is worthy of a hunt or two this fall, God willing.
ODDS ARE........the deer will succumb to arrows from it..........if I do my part LOL. ;) On the back of the site window (per se) it says "FAWN HUNTING" and why the seller thought it was a "vintage children's bow". Somehow the "55#@28" boldly written on it meant nothing to them. hmmm
Just hoping that isn't a forecast/prediction and just a name! ROFL It is under the finish so doesn't appear to be added. At least it don't say BAMBI hunting or something. Walt Disney would have had a stroke since this came out within 15yrs (or so) of the original movie.
This is "politically incorrect" enough, but somehow adds character to an old style recurve hunter.
It is simply an old bow from way back when, probably sold for 5 bucks new. Cost me a bit more than that but not much so for fun and games, well worth the cost.
Add a couple thick layers of leather under yet another grip for some kind of easier (sorry) used shelf and I'm good to go.
Plus........if I whack much of anything with it and a Lafonds head on a woodie or similar arrow set up......my 800 dollar mathew's shooting nephew will go insane. His arrows and heads cost more than this bow did..........each!
Probably raise a few eyebrows at the check station as well.
:goldtooth:
Thanks all for the help.
God Bless
Steve
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PS.......just bought a double shelf B. Pearson Cougar, leather grip......9.99.
NEW PROJECT to add. Another from our past to return to the woods....where they were intended to go.
Lordy ain't this fun?? (and safer for me.....mine blow up..I wont cry.....long)
Tough for me to recognize early 50s arrows, unless they appear to be original AND complete with such heads on em but I look. I make my own but such create an interest.
Got a set of tonkin cane shafts to play with, just cause I "aint done that yet".....should be a hoot with them out of these old arra' flingers!
hehe
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Maybe I can clear up some stuff about W. L. Miller's facings and backings.
Toxglass is a woven fiberglass backing.
Toxwood is a plastic impregnated wood used for both backing and facing.
Toxhorn is a high pressure phenolic type plastic with a cellulose filler used for facing.
All were developed by the inventor W.l. Miller, a chemist and physicist working with plastics in a laboratory for many years as well as flight shooter. He held a patent on plastic faced bows since 1943. The various aldehyde plastic above were protected by this patent but abused by some in the archery community. Miller reminded folks of this in the September 1953 "Archery."
Ultrabac is a woven glass backing and glassface a parallel glass fiber developed by Eicholtz.
Bear backing and facing through 1954 was parallel glass bonded to thin wood.
Tuff-bac is a woven fiberglass and cellulose fiber sold by Indianhead Archery.
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All great info, Thank You!
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Is it just me or are we eventually going to know everything about everything if we keep at this?
DDave
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Originally posted by SlowBowke:
PS.......just bought a double shelf B. Pearson Cougar, leather grip......9.99.
NEW PROJECT to add. Another from our past to return to the woods....where they were intended to go.
Lordy ain't this fun?? (and safer for me.....mine blow up..I wont cry.....long)
Tough for me to recognize early 50s arrows, unless they appear to be original AND complete with such heads on em but I look. I make my own but such create an interest.
Got a set of tonkin cane shafts to play with, just cause I "aint done that yet".....should be a hoot with them out of these old arra' flingers!
hehe
What the heck you needin a double shelf bow for, Steve? Nobody in their right mind (or is it left mind) shoots right and left handed. And a Cougar is just a glorified kids bow that you should be embarassed to own. I will be kind and trade you a leather grip off a 59 Kodiak for it, so you can have a start on yer Kodiak. :thumbsup:
DDave
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Hey, bowdoc, gonna be needin a new leather grip for my 59 Kodiak.
DDave
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LOL......was just too interesting to pass up.
Maybe I can learn to shoot left too.......then the deer won't "know" WHICH SIDE they can sneak up on me..safely.
Some days it don't make much difference anyway, but a thought LOL.
God Bless
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Okay Steve, that seemingly innocent question you asked about the 1959 to 61 Bears got this whole episode started and will likely have cost me over 2 grand by the time it plays out.
So you should just give me that useless old BP bow. :saywhat:
DDave
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I love this chit I really do.I look forward to getting up every morning and reading about old bows.....you gotta love it ya just gotta...
hey Dave I have to make the run to China town to get stocked up on leather for my shop.Hopefuly this week I can get loss long enough to get er done.If you remind me this week.I'd be more then happy to get you fixed up with a new grip.And you may need to post your reminder on this thread.As my email and pm's took a dump on me again....bd
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Originally posted by SlowBowke:
LOL......was just too interesting to pass up.
Maybe I can learn to shoot left too.......then the deer won't "know" WHICH SIDE they can sneak up on me..safely.
Some days it don't make much difference anyway, but a thougt LOL.
God Bless
So now I gotta teach ya how to shoot left handed, well that is just great.
Okay so first you gotta put your glove on yer left hand and grip the bow in yer right hand... :laughing:
DDave
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Originally posted by the real bowdoc:
I love this chit I really do.I look forward to getting up every morning and reading about old bows.....you gotta love it ya just gotta...
hey Dave I have to make the run to China town to get stocked up on leather for my shop.Hopefuly this week I can get loss long enough to get er done.If you remind me this week.I'd be more then happy to get you fixed up with a new grip.And you may need to post your reminder on this thread.As my email and pm's took a dump on me again....bd
Nah,the greedy fellow decided he wants to keep his new toy and learn to shoot both ways so he can shoot a deer coming in on either side of a ground blind, which I submitted a Canadian patent application for just last week when I got my dual shelf longbow blank.
If you join the Alberta Traditional Bowhunters Association (which oddly enough I am now the membership chair of) you can get some nice discounts from Tandy leather (who just happen to have an outlet in your neck of the woods).
You pop on up to our Heritage Classic Jamboree as our guest speaker, you get more work than you can handle in the next five years and you get paid in Canadian dollars (or bear hunts for real bears, not that lil gaffer ya shot in French Canada last fall).
I was gonna send the Twins to you for a decision on redoing them anyway so I will pay yer travel costs and you can stay at my place.
You want I can even lend you an old Bear bow to shoot. :archer2:
DDave
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Wrong, Steve, now there goes another grand or so.
What the heck, ya only get out tour on this old planet and we may as well enjoy the ride.
DDave
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That would be "...one tour...".
Oh and btw, Don, that membership is 50 CAD or 51.3241 USD. :D
Did I remember to mention my buddy who guides on the legendary Bow River for monster Browns and Bows?
DDave
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Interesting comparison today, at least to me.
The above mentioned whattheheckisit bow 61 (belly measured) inches 55@28 next to a 58 inch Thunderstick Mag 49@27 inches.
A half a century or so apart with some obvious design differences, but not so very radical IMHO especially comparing ye olde "recurve" to a present day "longbow".
Shooting side by side,with only about 3lbs difference at the same draw, there was so little difference that I was pretty impressed and impressed is what I was anyway with the Mag since it's one of the best shooting "short" bows Ive ever slung an arrow out of. If not for my passion for old and ner' forgotten bows....it would be my "go to bow" and remain on my rack forever. As is, such don't seem to remain long, LOL.
Forgive the moleskin rest on the other bow....yankee "injun-u-ity". (AND the electrician's tape "string keeper".
Thought maybe someone would also find the comparison somewhat interesting.
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj170/Steve692/IMG_0548.jpg)
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj170/Steve692/IMG_0549.jpg)
God Bless
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Hmmmmmmmm.....a sign indicating similar age......or increased possibility it was made by Indian Archery Co......like this grip shows on an Indian bow from the way back machine?
Ive found 4 or so older Indian Archery bows now with the same plastic leather retainer wraps on the top and bottom of the grip leather..and the ONLY place Ive found such, other than OTHER bows also bearing the OUTDOOR SPORTS MFG CO stickers.
Any further info on such from anyone?
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj170/Steve692/IndianArcheryGrip.jpg)
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj170/Steve692/IMG_0547.jpg)
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Originally posted by SlowBowke:
Interesting that it's on the back? Most references Im finding on toxhorn was belly material for compression capacities?
Fiberglass belly, two layer wood (maple Id say) limb construction between the two, the belly one half again in thickness or close.
LIGHT? oh my word...weighs zilch
Hello SlowBowke
I am just learning about these old bows and thought i would pass on some of the similar traits on this bow I aqcuired.
The toxtorn is on the back. The fibrglass in on the belly. The wood lams start out the same thickness at the riser, but the lam on the belly side thins to almost a sliver by the time it reaces the nock. Also, this bow weighs only 1lb. 3oz.
I will try attaching pics
http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac60/Pack-animal/Unknown%20bow%201/IMAG1437.jpg
http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac60/Pack-animal/Unknown%20bow%201/IMAG1431.jpg
http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac60/Pack-animal/Unknown%20bow%201/IMAG1434.jpg
http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac60/Pack-animal/Unknown%20bow%201/IMAG1443.jpg
http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac60/Pack-animal/Unknown%20bow%201/IMAG1344.jpg