Trad Gang
Main Boards => Trad History/Collecting => Topic started by: Paul Mattson on January 05, 2011, 09:45:00 PM
-
I saw thread with some old Bear Arrows, not wanting to high jack that thread I started this one.
This is the oldest arrow that I have. The name on is C.H. Styles, Berkley. After some research and an article in TBM a few years ago I found that C.H. Styles was a friend of Saxton Pope, while he was at the University.
Here's the kicker, the dimensions are all most exactly as described in Hunting with the Bow and Arrow by Saxton Pope. The shaft is 26" with a 5" fore shaft and a dia of around 5/15". In the book Pope does mention that during the end of Ishi's arrow making that he was liking metal. But, he doesn't go into much detail. I guess, I will never know, but it still is a piece of Archery history.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e358/BadgerArrow/oldarrow3.jpg)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e358/BadgerArrow/oldarrow2.jpg)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e358/BadgerArrow/oldarrow1.jpg)
-
That is a cool peice of history. I am no authority so I will leave the authentications to someone who is.
-
Very cool Badger. At the Traditional Archers of Oregon banquet a couple of years ago there was a guy who gave a talk on the arrows Ishi made. He would be the authority to talk with...sorry I can't remember his name. I bet Dave Doran of Archery Past would know.
-
I don't think Ishi made forged steel heads/ foreshafts like that. It looks like a harpoon type point. I believe the steel points Ishi used were what are called trade points.
That is a very cool piece of history whether it be Ishi's or not. The tangential fletching is cool and quite effective.
Is the lashing sinew?
-
What amazes me is that I can't hit the broad side of a barn with my high tech carbons or super straight woodies.
The "Old School" guys could hunt with this arrow!
Hat's off to them.
Matt
-
Snag, could that have been Steve Allely? He knows the west coast old stuff as well as anyone alive.
-
Nice.
-
looks like an African style head and foreshaft to me. Talk about weight forward !
ChuckC
-
Nice!
-
That is really cool. If you find out more about it please share.
-
The feathers and point are wraped with sinew. The next thing I am going to do is find out the type of wood the shaft is made from. I will be bringing it to the US Forest Service, Forest Products Laboratory. They have a scientist that can determine wood speicies.
-
I just looked through my copy of "Yahi Archery" and this arrow doesn't resemble any of Ishi's displayed there or described. The metal foreshaft is not typical either. Pope writes here that Ishi's arrows were 29"-30" in overall length. The fletching is much different as well. At first glance I'd ssuggest it was from elsewhere.
Styles never met Ishi and the only reason I can envision he would have placed his name on the arrow, would simply to identify it as his property. Some of the old archers collected stuff as well, and artifacts and specimens from other parts of the country are found in their possessions.
And, it is not uncommon in the collection business for others to place the name of old archers to, let's say, possible increase the value of the item. I'm not suggesting that here, just information as to "why" C.H. Styles may be printed or written on the arrow.
And yes, I have an original "Yahi Archery." :)
-
A question. The feathers appear to be whole, not split. Ishi split his feathers.
-
Thanks for the info Cliff. The shaft is actually signed CH Styles, Berkley. This arrow came from a collection of many and most were signed, (as to who owned them.)
Here is a quote from Hunting with the bow and Arrow Next they were cut into lenghts of twenty-six inches. Next.....it was cut to proper length. This was about thirty-two inches.
It's nice to dream alittle, that you may hold a significant piece of lost history.
-
No reason to dream you still do.
I bet not may if any others has an arrow that is close to that one.
-
Wow, that is interesting!
-
Badger I will PM you with a man's info that know a lot about Ishi and his arrows.
-
Several years ago I went to Berkeley to look at the Ishi display and I don't recall anything that looked like this arrow. In the book Ishi in Two Worlds by Theodora Kroeber there is a picture of arrows made by Ishi and they are very different. All of the arrows I looked at had very nicely knapped Obsidian points. Most of his arrows were made from Hazel and per the book 29" to 32" in length including forahaft. Those of his arrows that were made with a forshaft used a heavier wood about 8 inches long. He preferred feathers of eagle but also used buzzard, blue jay and others. He also put a slight helical on his fletch for better accuarcy. Ishi's arrows were well thought out and designed for performance.
-
don't no if Ishi made that arrow.but that is awesome.
-
If the arrow came from Styles' collection, that'd be enough for me. :)
"Yahi Archery" was published in 1918 and the Ishi material in Pope's "Hunting With Bow & Arrow[1923]" came from it. I've not matched the text word by word but it appears the material from "Yahi Archery" was edited some before including in the 1923 Edition of "Hunting With Bow & Arrow."
-
Help me out here Cliff, What are your thoughts on the age and orgin of the arrow? I realize it's a ways off on being one of Ishi's.
-
Definetely not an arrow by Ishi.Looks to be,of african origin to me.