Trad Gang
Main Boards => Trad History/Collecting => Topic started by: Wade Phillips on October 10, 2009, 11:13:00 PM
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Just found a laminated duplicate of this snowy image. 8" x 10"
Free to the first person who posts the correct names of these three Bowmen in order and the year...
(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/c2f12ccc.jpg)
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No clue as to who they are.. Great photo Wade...
Cody
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A little closer shot of the faces...
(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/7e716549.jpg)
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Wade, Great pic!!
I am going to guess on the gentleman on the far right in the picture....Fred Bear?
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John - You are correct.
The bowman on the far right is Fred Bear, glasses and turned down hat...
Now you need to name the other two bowmen and the year... and the snow storm image is yours...
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the man on the left is Dan wright he live down the road from Fred growing up the man in the middle is Dan youngest son the year was 1953 :D
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Steve - Thanks for guessing.
Dan Wright is not in the photograph, and none of the bowmen are related.
Your guess on the year was in the wrong decade.
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Nels Grumley, Ed Hinkel, Fred Bear 1948
Just guessing of course
Trap
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Trap -
You are half right, Nels Grumley and Fred Bear.
The bowmen in the middle is not Ed Hinkel, but that is a good guess as the fellow looks something like Ed.
The year is not 1948. Look a little closer at those Grumley era bows. That will help you get close to the year...
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The guy in the middle is Ray Stannard and the year is 1942.
How's that for sounding possibly positive :thumbsup:
Bernie
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Bernie -
Sorry your guesses were not correct.
So far, you have guessed the closest on the year...
The fellow in the middle is from Michigan, but not as well known at Nels Grumley or Fred Bear.
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Dangit, I need more "Archery" magazines. Mine don't go back far enough. :(
Trap
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Forgot about magazines Trap, I was ripping through books! I would swear I have the guy's name right, but oh well, sure looks like Ray--even the same type of clothing. Gotta love Wade's quizzes.
I hope I am online the moment Wade asks who is sitting next to a certain black bear in a certain picture that a certain Wade has that I am after!
Bernie
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Trap - Yes, there is no substitute for documents from the era that the events took place. Although there are some errors in the original documents of the era, there are far more errors in accounts written 20 to 50 years or more after the events took place.
Bernie - What document are you referencing in which Ray looks like the bowman between Nels and Fred?
I am going by what Nels Grumley wrote on the back of his original photograph from his scrap book.
The date Nels wrote is confirmed by the bows.
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Okay, another stab at this.
The archer in the Center is Bud Gray and the year is 1942.
Trap
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Wade, I will chime in with Larry Whiffen as the gentleman in the middle.
Trap, great get on Nels. I would not have gotten that one in a million years.
Love the pic! Thanks for sharing Wade!!!
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Trap - Another good guess. Although the bowman in the center does look something like Bud Gray, it is not Bud. The year is not 1942.
John - Larry Whiffen Sr. is another good guess, as Larry looked a lot like our mystery bowman. Glad you like the snowy image.
Cody - Your PM with Floyd Eccleston as a guess is a good one too. Our mystery bowman does resemble Floyd especially when Floyd worn his similar hat.
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Nels Grumley, Barney Grenier and Fred Bear 1940
Trap
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Trap - Boy, another good guess. Barney looks something like our mystery bowman but he is not Barney. I believe all of the hunting photographs of Barney that I have, he is always wearing a stocking cap. I'm sure there are lots of other hunting photographs of Barney that I don't have. Sorry, you missed the year again.
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Bowdoc, Johnnyrazorhead and Grant Young 2009
Trap
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Nels Grumley, Bill Loomis and Fred Bear 1944
Trap
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Trap - You made me laugh out loud with your guess...
Bowdoc, Johnnyrazorhead and Grant Young 2009
Sorry to report that Bill Loomis and 1944 are not correct...
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Alright,I'll give it a try.How about Nels Grumley,Gordon Campbell,third is Fred Bear.The year is 1938.
Trap-I wish it was me in the pic with those other two scoundrels you mentioned.
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Is the hunter in the middle Charlie Kroll?
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I think it's kinda cool that a picture of those three guys (Doc, John and Grant) hunting together would look very similar to the 1941???? image you have posted.
Trap
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Tom Jennings?
Trap
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John - 1938 is the correct year... Good job. The bows were the key.
Sorry, Gordon Campbell is not the mystery bowman in the middle.
Trap - Your last guess of 1941 is not correct... but is your best of 5 guesses being only 3 years over.
Steve - Sorry to report that the mystery bowman in the middle is not Charlie Kroll. Charlie was such a cool old guy. I always enjoyed talking with him.
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Trap - Tom Jennings ??? You made me laugh out loud again. You are tooooo funny.
The only guess that comes to mind that would have made me laugh more would have been Tiny Munson (perhaps the largest bodied bowman of the era).
Think Michigan 1938...
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I started to say Ted Nugent's grandpa. :bigsmyl:
Trap
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That's me in the center. Fred and Nels handed me this old clunker bow and said I wouldn't need a jacket. The picture is not in the back woods...it's in the back yard behind the cabin. Bill Hinkley was the photographer and he stayed on the back porch out of the wind.
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Is the man in the middle, Jack Van Coevering?
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Middle man is Norman Reid???
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Russell Hoogerhyde?
Hey you didnt say how many incorrect guesses we could have.
Trap
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Hmmmm..think Michigan, 1938. Well haven't we covered just about everybody except William VanVorst?
Bernie
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Ok what the heck I am going to take a shot at it.. Arnold O. Haugen
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I havent made this many bad guesses since my last Calculus exam. Sadly, it wasnt multiple choice either. :confused:
Trap
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That's funny Cody. I have Dr. Arnold Otto Haugen written down on a pad of paper beside me. That was my next "guess".
Who killed the first deer with archery tackle in Michigan? I have a feeling that's who we are looking for but I havent been able to find who that person is.
Trap
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LOL
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Wow ! I leave the computer for two hours and you guys have guessed half the names associtaed with old time archery... Some of these guesses don't look much like the mystery bowman...
Sorry to report that all of the guesses are incorrect.
I'll try to find another image of our mystery bowmen and post it... which may help someone...
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Middle man is Larry Mytinger?
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Trap, I believe the first person to kill a deer with archery tackle in Michigan was Roy Case.
But the man in the middle in the pic is Barney Grenier?
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Steve - I believe you may have your states mixed up. Roy was the first person to kill a deer with archery tackle in Wisconsin.
Sorry the man in the middle is not Barney Grenier, but Barney did look something like our mystery bowman.
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William VanVorst was the first to kill a deer in Michigan Rigth ??...
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Here is another image of our mystery bowman with his two snowy image companions...
This image is 1940 so remember our subjects may look a little older. We can see those hairlines now...
Please don't start to guess who the other two archery personalities are. Nobody has guessed their names yet...
(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/d0c32d24.jpg)
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Cody - Yes, William VanVorst was the first to kill a deer in Michigan during a Bow and Arrow Deer Season. That was 1937. Actually only 3 deer were killed during that season. Nels shot one of those first three deer. Nels also got a deer in 1938 and 1939, the only bowmen to bag a buck in each of Michigan's first three B&A seasons...
It should be noted that well before 1937, several deer were killed with a bow and arrow during the regular firearm seasons, which was legal.
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Originally posted by jcar315:
Middle man is Larry Mytinger?
John - Larry was a very good guess, but sorry our mystery bowman is not Larry. He was a friend of Nels and Fred and good Michigan deer hunter. Larry killed a nice buck in 1938, which I'm sure you know already. Do you have a photo of Larry and his deer?
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Wade was the mystery bowman a life long friends of Fred'S ?...
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Cody - I only know they were friends in the 1930s and 1940s... Don' remember seeing his name after the 1940s, but could not say that he and Fred did not remain friends after that.
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Thanks Wade......
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The man in the middle is Ray Stannard?
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Is it Bob Munger.
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Wade, I don't have the picture but I have seen it a number of places.
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Rick, Bob and Fred didn't meet each other Tell 1951..
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One more guess and if I am worng I am done.. Bill Graham ? I know he was one of the first Bear Reps in michigan.. But I been worng before..
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K.K. Knickerbocher????
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Mystery bowman still un-named...
Steve – Sorry not Ray Stannard
Rick – Sorry not Bob Munger
Cody – Sorry not Bill Graham
John – Sorry not K.K. Knickerbocker
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Wade, the mystery man has got to be Jim Henderson?
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Steve - Great guess. Jim Henderson looks a lot like our mystery bowman. Sorry Jim is not correct.
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A.J. Michelson?
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John - Good guess, but sorry, A.J. Michelson is not correct.
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AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!
Wade, This is a good one!!! Any chance for another hint?
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Another hint...
The mystery bowman's last name has two letters that are the same...
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Okay, is it Chuck Piper?
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Bob Todd???
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Wade is it Frank SCott?
Jim
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That Daniel Boone guy was a Pioneer I think.
Trap
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Sorry Guys, you are thinking but none of the guesses are correct...
Trap you are making me laugh with your guesses. I was at Daniel Boone's home in Missouri and don't remember seeing any archery tackle. You must live close to his place...
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Well then, it must be John Brikoski? I'm running out of names and research material.
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Fred Kibbe?
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Steve and John - Sorry, neither of the names you mentioned...
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Floyd Eccleston ?
Trap
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Trap - In 1938, our mystery bowman looks a lot like Floyd Ecclecston looked in 1949... Especially with the hat... Sorry the mystery bowman is not Floyd...
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LOL, I figured that was too obvious for a clue. Nice tribute to Floyd though.
Trap
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Les Bundell
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Hink - Good guess, but sorry our mystery bowman is not Les.
Trap - Glad you liked the thread about Floyd. He was a great guy.
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Holy cow Wade, this is the first time I've pm'd you and your box wasn't full.
There can't be very many archers left in Michigan back then that we haven't named!
Good luck guys...bedtime here in Michigan, land of the unknown archer.
Bernie
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Stanley Jansen?
Happy hunting,
Jason
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Bernie - I think this may be the photograph that you want to see... right next to the poster that was put outside the room for Fred's 100th. Collectors are crazy, they will save anything...
(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/09c3b4c6.jpg)
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Jason - Sorry our mystery bowman is not Stanley Jansen.
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Barney Grenier?
Bill Loomis?
Happy hunting,
Jason
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William VanVorst?
Albert Stoll Jr?
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Jason - Sorry not Barney Grenier nor Bill Loomis.
Bill - Sorry not William VanVorst nor Albert Stoll Jr?
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Wade- How about Charlie Payne?
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John - Sorry our mystery bowman is not Charlie, who was certainly one of the best known bowmen of the era.
I loved Charlie's little characteristic hat. His broadheads are cool too.
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May I ask if this bowman was from Michigan?A member of the Detroit Archers?I was thinking maybe Frank Eicholtz(California) but no two letters the same in the last name(if I spelled it right.This is driving me crazy!!!
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Carl Allen?
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John - Yes, our mystery bowman is a Michigan man. Don't know if he was a member of the Detroit Archers. If you have a membership list, send it to me, I will check it over and let you know.
He is not Frank Eicholtz, who also looks similar.
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Ok here is a list of guys who are not the mystery bowman... Larry Mytinger,Ray Stannard,
Bob Munger,Bill Graham, K.K. Knickerbocher,Jim Henderson, A.J. Michelson,Chuck Piper,Bob Todd.
Frank SCott,John Brikoski,Fred Kibbe,Floyd Eccleston ,Les Bundell,Stanley Jansen,Bill Loomis,Albert Stoll ,Charlie Payne,Carl Allen
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Cody, Thanks for the list. It will keep me from having to scroll through every page to see who has been guessed already.
This is a good one Wade!
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OK its not me for sure.I looked like the guy in the middle many years ago.Now I look more like Fred.
Wade this is a good one I gotta hand it to ya.Great thread bd
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Don, I don't remember seeing Fred with an earring? :bigsmyl:
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Doc - Glad you like the snowy image of Nels, Fred and our mystery bowman... I especially like the flakes of snow showing up as blurred streaks running at a 45 degree angle across the images of the bowmen and trees.
What a great day to be in the woods and silently stalk up on the disoriented whitetails. Not enough days like in any man's life.
Just never realized it, but apparently none of the rest of our TradGang has seen this snowy image before. Would have guessed that Fred also had a copy of this 8"x10" that was in Nels scrap book...
I love Fred's outfit, pulled down hat, glasses and suspenders. The extra layer of clothing puts lots of pounds on Fred's lanky frame. And that light checkered shirt just has to be Fred's 1938 version of snowy camo.
Perhaps the original snow camo shirt for bowhunters...
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Wade-I don't believe I have a membership list,just thought it might spark some rememory of someone I had seen in some old Datroit Archers photos.This is a good one!
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Wade is his last name Michelson
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DGW - Sorry the mystery bowman's last name is not Michelson.
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Kev yes he did,he just never wore it.bd
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could it be Nick Zrolka
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DGW - Sorry, our mystery bowman is not Nick Zrolka.
Off hand, I don't recognize the name Nick Zrolka. Who was he? Maybe my CRS is kicking in this morning.
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He was from Detroit he was on the cover of june 1944 Archery with a nice deer kinda looked like the guy in pic. had to guess!
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Holy smokes!!!
Any more clues?
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Daniel - Yes, "Archery" June 1944, Cover, Great Photograph... Looks like a Case Konvertible Broadhead...
Was thinking of posting photographs of some of the guesses after someone came up with the mystery bowman's name but will start now...
(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/0e517293.jpg)
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one more John Marsteiner page three jan.1947archery
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Floyd Eccleston with his 1949 Michigan Buck taken with a 1949 Bear Grizzly, on the cover of the December 1952 "Archery". Mailing label is "Osage" Jim Murphy of Bakersfield... "Osage" Jim Murphy was one of the best known and most prominent old bowmen of era...
Note Bear advertisement on back cover of preceding issue...
(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/1a238275.jpg)
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Love the history Wade!!!
Pics are great to see. Love every aspect of them.
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Daniel - Sorry our mystery bowman is not John Marsteiner, Page three, January 1947 "Archery"...
(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/d4e1bc1e.jpg)
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cant give up, Dick winchester
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Bottom of Page three, January 1947 "Archery"... is Roy Jones with then largest deer killed with bow and arrow in Michigan... I have a couple of Roy's Non Resident B&A Deer Licenses from the 1940s...
(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/6d4d8a90.jpg)
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Facing Page three, January 1947 "Archery"... is Judge Irving Tucker, for 1946 he won the Detroit Free Press Contest for "Buck with most Points"... That same year Nels Grumley won "Most Perfect Rack", the bowmen got 2 of the 3 awards and the gun hunters got only one...
How can it get any simpler than the Judge's 1946 tackle and clothing ???? Nice Buck !!!
(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/a6596a1f.jpg)
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Daniel - Sorry our mystery bowman is not Dick Winchester...
Where is the reference to his name?
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ok how about Dr. Leon Perrin ! Dick winchester Grumley, Knickerbocker and Perrin are in a picture together that Fred took on a deer hunt in Feb. 1944 Archery page 5. I am running out of guesses and names. Dan
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This is a tough one,Wade I have been out of pocket for a couple of days and missed the initial post. That guy looks really familiar but I can't come up with a name.
John- your guess killed me. I wouldn't hesitate to be seen in the company, though. GY
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Daniel - Oh, yes, Feb 1994 "Archery" cover, one of the best ever.... Eugene Reeber, Leo Lange and the big buck killer of the era himself, Nels Grumley - true all time Michelangelo of Bowyers... They just don't take photographs like this anymore...
(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/033a577e.jpg)
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Daniel - Sorry to report that our mystery bowman is none of names you mentioned in the photograph on page five, Feb 1944 Archery...
I call this "The Snowball Buck Photograph" for obvious reasons...
These old time bowmen knew how to have fun...
(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/62cfacb7.jpg)
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He might not fit the clues but he kinda looks like Jim Hodek.Please say it is.
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John - Sorry not Jim Hodek, a pretty good Michigan bowyer in his own right...
(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/c41a777f.jpg)
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John - This may be the only photograph I have of Jim Hodek with a deer... 1948
Do you have one of Jim Hodek's signed hunting arrows. I may have one left... Do you have one? I believe I gave his signed back quiver to Hinkley at Compton this year. Hinkley likes that old Michigan stuff as much as you...
(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/9d6b23b9.jpg)
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not sure of the one clue, you said had two letters the same do you mean like two of the letter a or two a's and two b's thanks Dan
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Dan - Two identical letters, such as BUZZ.
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H. F. Thompson??????
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Roy Hoff?
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Rick and John - Sorry to report that your guesses are not our mystery bowman...
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Len Cardinale??? LOL..I guess I should read more on Len. He was born in 8/21/39.
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Rick - We may be getting down toward the end of the guesses. Will give everyone this evening then may have to wrap it up tomorrow morning...
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Art Laha????
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Is this test going to be graded on a curve???
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Names that match the clue, Gil zook, Johnny Scott, Eugene Reeber and M C Hallaway. All Michigan archers from that era .
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Sorry guys, none are our mystery bowman...
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If he in another photo with Young and Bear? A Detroit Archer?
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Cliff - I'm not familiar with the photograph you are speaking of. Is it the one outside Pope Hall?
I don't know if he was a Detroit Archer.
Have you ever seen the snowy image photograph before?
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Cliff is this the photo your talking about ?..
(http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu197/TradBowKid/Fredwithgroupofguys.jpg)
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Yea, that's it. The dude on the right kinda looks like him.
No, I've not seen the photo you posted.
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Cliff - Yes, "the dude" does sort of look like our mystery bowman.
Are you going to submit the name of "the dude" for a guess?
I love the pants on "the dude". You just don't see bowmen wearing those anymore...
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See Wade, I told ya it is Ray Stannard.
I can hear Nels now "hmmmm, how can I mess with that smart aleck youngster Wade Phillips? I know, I'll mark this pic of Ray as someone else and stash it in my stuff. Wade's bound to find it sooner or later...."
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I have looked at that pic several time but the only names I could find were Fred and Art Young.
Is the mystery solved?
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Bernie -
Sorry to report that the one major problem with the theory you present, is the newspaper clipping I posted of Nels and Fred with our mystery bowman, (and two other bowmen)has another image of our mystery bowman with his name printed as the same that Nels scratched on the back of the photograph. Unfortunately his name on both documents is the same and it is not Ray Stannard...
(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/d0c32d24.jpg)
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Here's the only name I can remember, that I think is in the photo with Young and Bear. Heck, it might have been mentioned earlier as I haven't checked all submissions. I really don't think it the mystery fellow but it's all I have and it's a guess.
Carl Strang
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Wade- No,I don't have one of Jim Hodek's signed hunting arrows.If you decide to part with yours let me know.I do have three of his bows though.They are all very different and very unique.He was quite a bowyer himself.
I wish I could figure out who that mystery archer might be.
Warren Hallock?Bill Pizutti?Allen Orr?Dr. Pletcher?Erwin Ketzler?
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Cliff and John - You guys are making me laugh, which is wonderful fun and great therapy for a convalescing old man.
Cliff - Sorry, Carl Strang is not our mystery bowman...
However, Carl Strang is the bowman second from left, standing between Nels Grumley and our mystery bowman in the January 13, 1940 newspaper clipping... Sorry Cliff, no extra credit...
(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/cd7dd3ea.jpg)
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John - Sorry to report that none of the names you guessed are our Mystery Bowman...
Remind me to send you a photograph of the Hodek arrow. Would consider trading it. Let me know if you have an offer in mind.
Yes, Hodek was quite a bowyer and made some unique bows. My two personal favorites are his tinny youth bow and his elaborately engraved riser. You just don't see many 1950s-60s risers made like that one.
I don't think many collectors outside Michigan even realize who Jim Hodek was. Some guys probably have some of his bows and can not identify them. Those of us who have some of his bows and other memorabilia should start a thread "Jim Hodek (1917-1973), Michigan Bowyer".
I especially like Jim's accommodation for the little strike plate on his engraved riser...
(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/6f671ba6.jpg)
(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/3c414c3a.jpg)
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one last try Leo Hoffmeyer, v Wheeler, Ernest Willsher, Durward Hillock, Wes Blundell, Andy Goodwin, Dorr Sweet, Hal Burries, Carl Kibbe and William Morris. And thats my last try I give up.
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Dan - Sorry to report that none of the names you mentioned are our mystery bowman.
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Wade- You've really got me stumped on the mystery bowman.I don't know who else to guess.
Since you've shown some photos of Jim Hodek's work,I figured I would include a few shots of one of his bows that I have.Your bow with the intricate carvings is fantastic.He obviously was a very good woodworker.I have shown this bow before whenever threads about oddball bows shows up.This is by far the oddest looking bow I have yet to see.It was given to another Michiganiac by Jim,who was a friend of his.It is dated 1955.This is the shelf side:
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e24/detroitdeerslyer/HodekbowI.jpg)
Here's the other side.Note the little arrowheads carved into the riser.
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e24/detroitdeerslyer/HodekbowII.jpg)
And how's this for a limb tip:
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e24/detroitdeerslyer/HodekbowIII.jpg)
Alright,now back to the mystery bowman.Any more clues.Pleeeeeez!
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Unless Wade is going to start spotting me letters in the mystery bowmans name I am fresh out of guesses.
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John - Ok, here is some more help with the mystery bowman's name...
One letter in his first name is the same as two letters in his last name...
What is the name of the Game Show?...
Does anybody want to buy a vowel?
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This is a wild guess ;) I tried everything to find out more info but here goes Karl E. Palmatier
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Rick - Accurate guess for the letter clues, but sorry, Karl Palmatier is not our mystery bowman.
Not sure if you know what Karl looked like, but he is standing next to Fred in this photograph... Don't you love Fred's glasses...
I don't know who is at the far right... Does anyone know who he is? Photograph circa 1945...
(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/64e1cb61.jpg)
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Wade..thanks, I could not find a picture of Karl by googling. For as much information that is out there, sometimes it is very limited.
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C'mon guys...somebody's got to know who the mystery bowman is. So I'll move this back up lest we fergit.
Bernie
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Aldo Leopold
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Robin Hood???
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Cliff & John - Wow, both accurate guesses by the repeated letter clue but sorry neither is our mystery bowman.
Robin Hood - John you made me laugh out loud with that guess.
Next Clue...
As unlikely as your Robin Hood guess may seem, it does have the correct letter in the first name that appears twice in the last name...
The rest of the letters should fall into place very easily for the wordsmiths...
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Wade, went back and checked previous posts but I may have missed it so if it has been posted prior I do apologize....
Barney Grenier??
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Sorry Steve I didn't go back far enough.
My apoligies.
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damn it Wade your getting me into hot water again.Mrs bd said if I do not quit running in here every 10 minutes to see if anyone guessed the correct answer yet she's going to lock the back door on me(whatever that means).I've never in my life seen so many wrong guesses on one subject.This is insane you gotta give it today man or I'am going to end up locked outside and may get my butt kicked in the process by her.just pm me the answer so I can get back to work.I swear I won't tell anyone,well maybe trap and a few of the other guy's...come on dad give it up.bd
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Wade, I have a picture that looks alittle like the unknown bowman, but mine wore glasses but not sure if he did way back then....John Hauch....Hink
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John & Hink - Sorry guys, not our mystery bowman.
Doc - Sorry for getting you in hot water with Mrs. BowDoc. Let me tell you how to handle women..., just take that back door off its hinges and set it in the garage, and tell he the door is broken. You won't ever have to worry about getting locked out again. The best part is, if you ever do get around to putting that door back on, you will be a hero.
Never thought it but all of your customers are probably getting ticked off at me for distracting you from working on their bows.
Frankly, I don't believe I could have come up with the mystery bowman's name if I had not seen his photograph and name twice in the Grumley memoribilia.
Doc - My problem is..., if I give up the name of the mystery bowman..., there will be no winner..., so who gets the prize ???
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So, if I read things correctly, the first name has an "I" in it and the last name has TWO "I's" in it :readit:
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Kenny... read it again...
Next Clue...
As unlikely as your Robin Hood guess may seem, it does have the correct letter in the first name that appears twice in the last name...
The rest of the letters should fall into place very easily for the wordsmiths...
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Gotta be William Tell
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Okay, I've been watching this and trying to do some research. Given the last clue I'll guess Don Hootman.
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Wade,Couild you send me that photo so I can look at it a little closer.Its just a little blurry..
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Barney Grenier
He hung out with Nels and Fred.
Excuse me if he's been posted, I've not checked all the posts.
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Shoot, I see Trap done beat me too it. I don't have time to play no more...packing for a trout fishing trip to a secluded cabin in North Georgia with my bride. I give up.
Ok Wade, who is Pope Hall named after?
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Brian - Great guess, you followed the clues correctly, but sorry it is no our mystery bowman.
Rick & Cliff - Sorry you guesses are not the mystery bowman...
Cliff - What do I win if I answer your question correctly?
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Well, I suspect you know, but tell me anyway. :)
The article below is about those Michigan archers and has some different photos as well as a photo of their broadheads. Nels is kinda' the main topic. If you don't have it, I'll send you a copy. If you do I'll send you a surprise. :)
Sports Afield - “Shades of Sherwood Forest” - Kowalchik, Walter - August 1941
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is his last name Lightfoot
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How about(he's probably already been mentioned) Joe Woodard?
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Gentlemen - Sorry to report that our mystery bowman is not Lightfoot or Woodard. Both are excellent guesses.
I'm pleased to see that you have followed the clues.
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Nelson "Nellie" Reed
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Cliff - Good guess, but sorry he is not our mystery bowman.
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Charles M. Gruber?
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Tox Collector - Sorry, but our mystery bowman is not Charles M. Gruber.
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Wade -
how about
R_ _ _ _ _
_ _ R R _ _
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Don Totten
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Erwin Pletcher?
Trap
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Bill - Sorry "R" is not the repeated letter in the mystery bowman's name.
Bear 1336 - Good guess, but sorry Don Totten is not the mystery bowman's name.
Trap - Sorry Erwin Pletcher is not the mystery bowman's name. Dr. Pletcher and his brother, also a Doctor, were both California bowmen.
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Is the middle man his foster son Mike Steger?
Or Bob Munger?
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Roy - Sorry these men are not our mystery bowman.
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D R S M T.....I would like to buy a vowel :bigsmyl:
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Rick - After the guess Robin Hood was submitted, the second clue gave everyone a vowel...
O
Only a few contestants seemed to have picked that up...
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"Real Sportsmanship is Fair Play" - ArtO YOungO
B
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Bob Hood? The gentleman you asked about in an earlier photo on the right -- my guess would be Carl Strang or Styles???
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Bernie - You cracked me up with that guess. Even Doc will have a tuff time topping that one!
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Tox - Sorry our mystery bowman is not Bob Hood.
Not sure which photograph you are referring to when you said...
"The gentleman you asked about in an earlier photo on the right -- my guess would be Carl Strang or Styles???"
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The photo in your post on 10/13 at 5:18 with Fred Bear on left and next to him on the right is Karl P. It is a guess but both Styles and Carl Strang are balding.
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I don't think these names were offered as yet:
One of the brothers Gordon, Don or George?
B
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Erwin Ketzler?
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Omigosh...has anybody guessed Don Hootman?
Evidently one of 8 successful Michigan bowhunters in 1938.
This guy's gotta be the one...from Michigan (the Gordon brothers were not).
Whadaya say Wade?
Bernie
Edit: dang, someone already tried Hootman...oh well.
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O Hell Guys it's Wade himself.. He just dose not want anyone to know how old he really is...LOL..LOL..LOL.. Sorry Wade had to do it....
Man I can't think of any one eles at all..
Cody
P.S Wade did photoshop your own photo in the pic ?...LOL..LOL
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I second "Don Hootman"!
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How bout Tommy Thompson?
Happy hunting,
Jason
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Sorry guys, our mystery bowman is not Don or George Gordon, or Don Hootman or Tommy Thompson or Erwin Ketzler. Lots of good guesses in that batch.
Tox - In 1940, Carl Strang had less hair than the fellow on the end of the circa 1945 lineup photograph. I'm sure he is not Styles. I'm going to have to work on finding his name as hard as you guys have worked on the mystery bowman.
At the rate you guys are going now, I'm certain you will discover the mystery bowman's name this weekend.
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Wade, Can you tell us whether the mystery man was a well known archer in his day or just someone tagging along with Grumley and Bear on the hunt?
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Joseph Hebert, of Detroit
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Wade , lets try Bert Terry
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Wade- I haven't participated in this because I've been swamped at the office. While I was hunting today I thought of this thread and rather than go back and review all the answers I figured I'd throw Ray Stannard in. Right time and place and an early hunting cronie of Mr. Bear's. Grant
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Tox - The mystery bowman was not just a tag along, he knew what he was doing with a bow, but not as well known like the other three shooters in this photograph...
Nels Grumley, Carl Strang, mystery bowman, Fred Bear, another yet un-namded bowman...
(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/d0c32d24.jpg)
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DGW – Sorry the mystery bowman is not Bert Terry.
Tony – Sorry the mystery bowman is not Joseph Hebert, of Detroit.
Grant – Yes, the mystery bowman does look a bit like Ray Stannard, but sorry he is not Ray.
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Thanks Wade -- I'll keep trying!
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Robert Cooper???
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Tox - YES.... We have a winner........
Our mystery Bow is indeed Bob Cooper.
You must tell us how you discovered his name...
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Congrats Tox!
Yes do tell...now I don't have to keep checking this crazy thread morning, noon and night.
I was about to jump in the car and drive up to Traverse City to the Record Eagle offices and look in their clip archives for the caption to that photo!
Bernie
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It wasn't easy -- it will take me days to put back together my books and references! I was sure that Cliff would beat me to the punch. And there were so many other good responses -- I'm surprised that someone else didn't nail it first.
Based on your clues, i.e., two same letters in the last name and at least one such same letter in the first name and then you gave us the vowel of "O" -- I knew that I was looking for at least two "O's" in the last name and at least one "O" in the first name.
Then with the date, I knew I should be looking at archery periodicals dating from the late 1930's to the mid 1940's. Also, you more or less confirmed that this person was a Michigan archer/bowhunter. In addition, based on the picture, I started to look for a person somewhat shorter than Fred and Nels. Additionally, while the mystery person was a bowhunter, I knew he must be a target archer based on the fact in the next photo you gave us -- he was doing an archery exhibition with Nels and Fred [I also figured that he had to be a decent shooter as both Nels and Fred were competitive archers].
I gave up on Archery magazine and Ye Sylvan Archer and then turned to the American Bowman-Review looking for a shooter/hunter from Michigan who met the above criteria. On pp. 10 of the November, 1939 issue of the ABR I found a photo at the bottom of the page that was captioned "Michigan Field Archers: Robert Cooper, Nelson Grumley, Mrs. Mary Calvert, Richard Hold and Fred Bear".
Fred Bear had taken first place in the 'Instinctive Division', Class A, while Horn took second place, Grumley took third and Cooper took fifth place. Mrs. Calvert had taken first place in the Ladies Class A division. This was the 12th Annual Field Tourney of the Michigan Archery Association.
While I didn't make a note of the reference, I believe that I also saw someplace that Cooper had harvested a deer in one of the Michigan archery hunts.
Wade - great contest - I had a lot of fun revisiting my old archery periodicals. This period of archery development was an interesting time from a tackle development standpoint. Bowhunting was really taking off as it was allowed in more and more states. Equipment was still very much 'traditional'. The period also strikes me that it was also very much a "fun" time -- a lot comradery among archers and bowhunters!
Again, thanks for the contest -- I really enjoyed it. When do you begin the next one? :jumper:
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Congrats to say the least!!!!
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:thumbsup:
Well Played!
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Wow.That was exhausting.
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Wade, Was there a special relationship between Cooper and Grumley/Bear, i.e., had he worked with them or was he a fellow member of the Detoit Archers, etc.?
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Congrats TC!
You earned that one.
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Tox..Congrats :thumbsup:
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Tox - Your account of how you found Cooper is excellent.
Points to the importance of having the original vintage reference material from the era the events took place.
It is also great reading. Nothing like ABRs being published today or within the past 40 years.
I don't really know much about Cooper other than he was one of the group of 1930s-1940s Michigan bowman. John Grumley talked about Cooper but I don't really know where Cooper lived. One of many old time bowmen who has nearly faded into obscurity.
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Finally remembered to pull out a couple of old Detroit Archer's club newsletters(The Arrow) from 1940.I should have done this awhile ago and perhaps I would have guessed the mystery bowman.
Anyhow,in the Dec.1940 issue on the first page it writes of current club president Fred Bear re-signing so as to have more time for his archery business.He would be devoting more time out of town during the upcoming winter to be at archery trade shows and such.The board reluctantly agreed to let Fed step down and to have the vice-president,Bob Cooper step up to fill Fred's shoes as club president.
So to answer even my own question,yes,Bob Cooper was a resident of Michigan AND a member of the Detroit Archers.In another issue of "The Arrow" is a funny story of a deer hunt in Camp Sherwood around St. Helen Michigan.It mentions Fred Bear,Nels Grumley,Tracy Stalker,A.J. Michelson,Leo Lange,Bill Loomis,and many others including Bob Cooper.It had a cartoon drawn by Nick Zrolka and the story of a mock trial where Bob Cooper was the defendant,presumably guilty for shooting a doe,with Leo Lange and A.J. Michelson as attorneys(both actually were attorneys)It sounds like these old time Michigan archers really had alot of fun together.
Just thought I would share some more information on Bob Cooper.
Wade- Maybe the information about Bob would be worthy of a copy of the photo?Please.I could send you a copy of the story in return.Plus,I did get part of the question right as I did guess the year as being 1938. :bigsmyl: :pray:
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John - Great find there in the little known issue of "The Arrow". I did have a few copies of "The Arrow" at one time, I will have to check to see if I still have them or traded them away.
I do remember reading about the mock trial and A.J. Michelson being an attorney. Don't remember most of the other details you mentioned.
Now that we have a date for the trial, we will likely discover another article about it...
Yes, you did guess the year of the photograph correctly, but we will not mention that your guess was only after there were already several missed guesses and after several prompts from me to "Look at the Bows". With all three of the Snowstorm Bowmen using Radiused Recurve bows, it had to be before 1941 when Nels began making the Bush Bow.
John - I would be happy to trade a copy of the Snowstorm Bowmen photograph for a copy of another photograph that I do not have from the same era. It certainly doesn't have to be as rare, unpublished or as unknown as the Snowstorm Bowmen Photograph apparently has proved to be.
Don't you just love the self inflicted torture of wanting to trade someone out of something. More proof that collectors are crazy.
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Just got back from PA. John - great info on Cooper -- thanks for digging it out and sharing. Thanks to others who sent "congrats"; however, as it turned out -- it was really a team effort. Without Fred and Nels and the year being identified and other names being eliminated, it would not have been possible. Of course, Wade's "clues" were 'key' as well. Hopefully, Wade will come up with another challenging contest in the near future.